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KarelXWB
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 48):
I've never understood why SQ didn't use the 77L on these routes as they already owned other variants of 777s.
The 77L would have been more efficient than the A345


Singapore Airlines placed an order for five A345s in 1999, the 777-200LR was not yet on offer back than.
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tortugamon
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Another concept is that the 778 could offer premium economy seating. I understand why economy may not be appealing but what about a small section of 9 abreast 19" seats in back. The additional legs could be put to good use and the economics could work out.

tortugamon
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 51):
Another concept is that the 778 could offer premium economy seating.

Yes, see reply #45.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
LY777
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:49 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 49):

Thanks.
I thought it was more than 11%
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don
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:57 pm

Last SQ 22 just flew over Toronto and will be landing at EWR around 1730 EST.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 52):

Whoops.

tortugamon
 
holzmann
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:30 am

Engadget has an article about this...worth fact checking?

http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/23/flying-singapore-21/
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LPSHobby
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:46 am

and which airline will lease or buy these aircrafts now?
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 8):
I find this so strange. I took a few trips to Asia this year. I flew AA's ORD-PVG, PVG-LAX and UA's EWR-HKG service.

In all fairness, only EWR-HKG is pertinent, and is then 700 miles (ish) less. Still, the HKG-NYC market seems lively, but the paucity of non stop routes > 8000 miles suggests there are structural issues with them, and the viability tails off rapidly.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Miami
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:50 am

Take off is set. SQ 21 is on the go!

Hopefully it will be a flight to remember!   
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:40 am

And off she goes for the last time    .

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5503/11021575355_fac8352a13_o.jpg
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ltbewr
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:42 am

It is sad to see this longest distance and time non-stop commercial scheduled passenger flight end, one with a long time of operation and with the EWR end an airport with a long history of record standard flights. That this flight operated from EWR vs. JFK made sense due to it's better regional connections (NE USA). SIN has been and had become even more so a very important financial center for Asia due to low taxes, sufficient financial regulations and respected, pro business judicial authority. This flight connecting to NY City, one of the most important financial centers of the world, made sense and these flights did have a steady base of business.
Financial reality from the overall increase in the costs of fuel, the costs of multiple crews due its long length, the mx costs and hours of flight time on these AC, and perhaps some cost cutting from their customer base led to the end of the these flights. Yes, ULH flights are not well liked by some, but for a small group, a few less hours in the sky was worth multiples of the costs of it's fare. I don't see such a flight returning anytime soon with current and short time expected a/c due to fuel costs, the world economy, greater use of electronic conferencing vs. a body at a meeting by companies to save money.
 
docpepz
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:55 am

SQ21 seems to be taking the polar route rather than going over the Atlantic, Europe, India towards SIN?
 
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allegro
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:09 am

Definitely a beautiful plane and she will be missed! Hopefully, AR will pick some up ... fingers crossed!

Otherwise, which other operators are out there? I guess they are all VIP birds.   
Flown on: DC-3, DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, MD-90, 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787, A300, A310, A320, A330,
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:17 am

I find it kind of funny that this important business flight ends right after PEDs are permitted for gate-to-gate use. Those business people on the flight would've liked that.  
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dfambro
Posts: 334
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:25 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 64):
I find it kind of funny that this important business flight ends right after PEDs are permitted for gate-to-gate use. Those business people on the flight would've liked that.

True, but the aircraft do have wifi which is active most of the flight
 
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Coal
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:18 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 47):
going toward 1-2-1

SQ has been 1-2-1 on long-haul J since 2007.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 47):
Even if they go 2-2-2

They will not, not for long haul anyway.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 47):
SQ has some 773s that have 2-2-2

These are older birds with a very old product. A lot of the 773s have been upgraded to 1-2-1 F and J.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 64):

I find it kind of funny that this important business flight ends right after PEDs are permitted for gate-to-gate use. Those business people on the flight would've liked that.

Not on SQ. They're very strict on PEDs and IFE turned off a long way before touch down.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Megatop747-412
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:54 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 66):

These are older birds with a very old product. A lot of the 773s have been upgraded to 1-2-1 F and J.

Actually, not quite. I believe all of their 773 that is still in their fleet have been upgraded to 1-2-1 for F, but for J they remain in 2-2-2 "regional" business class config.
 
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Coal
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:23 am

Quoting Megatop747-412 (Reply 67):
but for J they remain in 2-2-2 "regional" business class config.

Right, I was confusing them with the refitted 772ERs. But in any case, SQ will not go back to 2-2-2 for long haul.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting docpepz (Reply 62):
SQ21 seems to be taking the polar route rather than going over the Atlantic, Europe, India towards SIN?

Yes it most certainly seems to have taken this route. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7460/11031947854_2e7c6fd006_o.jpg

Since you are in Singapore, will you be there to see the final A340-500 flight touch down? Would be nice to see the coverage of this last flight by the media shared in this thread.
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Megatop747-412
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 68):

But in any case, SQ will not go back to 2-2-2 for long haul.

Yes agreed.  
 
BoeingMerica
Posts: 167
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:55 pm

The final SQ21 flight touched down at Changi about an hour ago.

It's done. She's gone.

What a shame.

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
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Miami
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:06 am

It's done.. R.I.P. SQ Flight 21-22 & SQ A340-500s. She will be deeply missed.

I hope a passenger filmed the landing and takeoff.. What a beautiful aircraft, and wow. What a journey!

[Edited 2013-11-24 16:06:17]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
cheeken
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:35 am

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 69):
Since you are in Singapore, will you be there to see the final A340-500 flight touch down? Would be nice to see the coverage of this last flight by the media shared in this thread.

unfortunately for us Singaporean aviation enthusiasts, 5.50am is pretty dark here, we wouldn't really be able to catch anything helpful

I woke up early enough to screenshot 9V-SGE's final moments on flightradar:



 
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AA777223
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 58):
In all fairness, only EWR-HKG is pertinent, and is then 700 miles (ish) less.

I will respectfully disagree. All one has to do is look at block times for countless flights to see that distance very rarely is an indication of time, the issue to which I was referring. For all of the three flights I mentioned (especially, ORD-PVG and EWR-HKG), the days I was on board, we were in the air for 15.5-16 hours.
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BoeingMerica
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 74):

If I'm not mistaken, SQ21-22 was frequently in the air on average a few more hours than that.

I thought 19-21 was not unheard of, especially the SQ21 leg

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
airbazar
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
So at the end of a long dive into the costs of such flights comes the conclusion that we could see this flight coming back from 2015 when Singapore gets their A350-900s

And that is what I've been suggesting since the day SQ ordered the A359  
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 46):
The vast majority of travelelers prefers cheap flights

But "vast majority" does not equal "all", especially the kind that flies business class with SQ.
These are niche routes for a niche markets.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:13 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
What I also see is that a 140 seat all J A350-900 is possible. I would loose some 14t in OEW and therefore be able to fly 9200nm nominally, ie a 359 all J class with these kind of seats can also be used on such 18 hour missions   (it would probably be 17 hours then as it flies 4% faster).

As always a fascinating read. It sounds as if the A359 has potential to restart the route. Very interesting... I would expect SQ to wait for an engine PIP or two and for the economy to improve a little more. In other words, no rush as who else would launch the flight?!?

Quoting parapente (Reply 5):
I think there is the more fundamental question of weather people want to spend 17 hours straight on an airplane.

I know too many people who fly LAX-DXB/SIN or IAH-DXB, SYD-DFW, or EWR-DXB to believe there isn't a market. But it is going to be mega-city to mega city only.

Lightsaber
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CX711
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:49 pm

How many pilots did SQ deploy typically on this flight? 5? With 2 captains? What is a typical duty rost for pilots on this long flight?

What about the cabin crew? How many and what is the typical duty roster look like?
 
SPREE34
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 10):
Actually the A345 is not very efficient. It mainly has to do with the fact that you have to carry a lot of fuel to burn the fuel needed for the flight.

On this stage length, that applies to anything flying today, not just the 345.

Quoting united787 (Reply 13):
IMHO, ULH flying will always be uneconomical because of the extra fuel that is needed to be carried.

  

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 14):
Perhaps the 77L could have worked on this. It would be nice to see this route come back sometime in the future.

Not really. While somewhat more fuel efficient than the 345, the same issue of fuel needed to carry the fuel needed doesn't work for the bottom line.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
A diff of almost 30 tonnes of fuel between the A345 and 777-8 is pretty impressive. But their is still 115 tonnes of fuel to carry, meaning ULH routes will remain very expensive to operate.

  

Quoting LY777 (Reply 48):
The 77L would have been more efficient than the A345


And still would not have made the route finanically sustainable.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:23 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 79):

Airline tickets have been getting cheaper since the 1970s despite rising oil prices. Airlines are making do with smaller margins. If oil prices stabilize (big if) and the new set of aircraft are 20% cheaper and wages are increasing. It's not inconceivable to think that ticket prices will continue this pattern and direct flights ( even ULH) won't be that economical. Certainly they will be more expensive relative o connecting but there will always be a premium for direct.

tortugamon
 
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aal151heavy
Posts: 127
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:36 am

Quoting CX711 (Reply 78):
How many pilots did SQ deploy typically on this flight? 5? With 2 captains? What is a typical duty rost for pilots on this long flight?

What about the cabin crew? How many and what is the typical duty roster look like?

I flew on SQ22 a few weeks ago. We had four pilots (three captains and one senior first officer) and 14 flight attendants.

If you look through the Trip Reports forum, there are at least three recent trip reports of this flight (one of them being mine).
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BoeingMerica
Posts: 167
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting aal151heavy (Reply 81):

Jealous. As I have never been to Asia and live west and south of NYC area, I never had the chance or money to take the flight.

But my question is, are all those 14 flight attendants paid for only the time they are actually on duty(as in serving customers, not resting) or do they receive pay for the duration of the flight?

If they got paid for the duration of the flight(what I think is most fair) that is a very high cost to incur. Assuming 100% loadfactor (very unlikely condition) that is a 1:6 ratio for passengers/FA.... Doesn't seem like a favorable ratio. Why did they put so many FA's on the route? It seems to me 6-8 could be adequate.

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
waly777
Posts: 761
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 82):
If they got paid for the duration of the flight(what I think is most fair) that is a very high cost to incur. Assuming 100% loadfactor (very unlikely condition) that is a 1:6 ratio for passengers/FA.... Doesn't seem like a favorable ratio. Why did they put so many FA's on the route? It seems to me 6-8 could be adequate.

They would be paid for the entire flight time as would the flight crew. The amount of FA's would most likely be due to flight time limitation rules (same as the flight crew), they would work in shifts so to speak.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
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JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1646
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 77):
As always a fascinating read. It sounds as if the A359 has potential to restart the route. Very interesting... I would expect SQ to wait for an engine PIP or two and for the economy to improve a little more. In other words, no rush as who else would launch the flight?!?

Maybe. There is also the option of an all-J 358.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8321
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:30 pm

I was lucky enough to be on the flight, it was superb, just a shame it was entirely in darkness, no lovely shots of the RR engines over the landscape below to be had  
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
CX711
Posts: 49
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting aal151heavy (Reply 81):
If you look through the Trip Reports forum, there are at least three recent trip reports of this flight (one of them being mine).

Thanks for the trip report - very nice description & pictures. I wonder how many rest periods the cabin crew have in the 17 hour flight? And also the flight crew. Would the crew doing the take off also be in charge for the landing and rest for 8 hours in between?
 
romeobravo
Posts: 1440
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RE: Goodbye Singapore Airlines A340!

Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:06 am

It's an absolutely stunning Aircraft. Shame the economics weren't so great.

Sad to see it go.

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