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iadguy73
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AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:56 pm

When can we anticipate AA and US to start mixing their fleet, putting AA metal on current US routes and vice versa? I'm especially interested in the wide body fleets. Is there any current AA routes that would be better served with an A330 or any current US routes where they could utilize a B777 more efficiently?

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luv2fly
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:59 pm

Has US and HP even done this yet?
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727LOVER
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:14 pm

Why don't we wait until the merger is closed.
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chepos
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 1):

Yes, CLT-MCO, BOS, TPA, ,FLL, DEN, etc etc (same with some routes out of PHL) these are routes which either have or have had in the past flights opb PMHP metal.

[Edited 2013-11-23 07:13:26]
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etops1
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:47 pm

I won't be surprised to see the 777-200 put on PHL-TLV . I could be wrong but it really won't surprise me one bit .
 
MIflyer12
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:31 pm

There can be some limited repositioning pretty quickly but crew bases and type-specific maintenance bases don't get relocated overnight. It may be some time - stretching to years - before they even have AA FAs fly with US pilots (even ignoring US East and US West).
 
arielwar
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:27 pm

I think this might take a while especially with the whole FA union battle looming.I wish it would happend over night, and that all current aircraft's that are planning on staying in the fleet get upgraded inside to what AA is doing with new aircraft's.
 
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American 767
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 4):
I won't be surprised to see the 777-200 put on PHL-TLV . I could be wrong but it really won't surprise me one bit .

Yes, and I won't be surprised either to see A330s flying out of the JFK hub on routes such as JFK-MIA, JFK-FCO, JFK-ZRH...routes where 763s currently fly out of JFK. Of course not the whole 763 fleet will be replaced with ex-US A330s, that is needless to say, but I do see some 763 routes out of JFK seeing the A330 later this decade.

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apodino
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:37 pm

This is a bit trickier than HP/US because the US fleet was made up of all the planes that HP already operated. I think what is most likely the first thing to happen is for some US Airbus' to end up in DFW since the A319 has already started there.

As for the international fleet, if US starts retiring more 767's then you could see AA metal move into PHL to take over some of that flying, especially as more 77W's and the 787's come on line. This would make sense as PHL already maintains the 767, so there would be differences training, but it would be a much smaller learning curve than a 777 or moving an A330 into JFK.

Give it some time though before we know anything concrete.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 1):
Has US and HP even done this yet?

To a certain degree, yes. I've flown a bunch of west-based a320s and a321s between JFK and CLT but they seem to try and keep west a319s and 757s out in PHX more than anything.

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
I think what is most likely the first thing to happen is for some US Airbus' to end up in DFW since the A319 has already started there.

In which case JFK could be on that list too come January when the A321Ts start operating the LAX/SFO routes.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
Of course not the whole 763 fleet will be replaced with ex-US A330s, that is needless to say, but I do see some 763 routes out of JFK seeing the A330 later this decade.

I'd hope so. I just flew on an a330 earlier this month and it is a HUGE improvement over the AA 767s.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
Yes, and I won't be surprised either to see A330s flying out of the JFK hub on routes such as JFK-MIA, JFK-FCO, JFK-ZRH...routes where 763s currently fly out of JFK. Of course not the whole 763 fleet will be replaced with ex-US A330s, that is needless to say, but I do see some 763 routes out of JFK seeing the A330 later this decade.

How more fuel efficient is the a330 compared to the 767-300? could this possibly help AA be more competitive on the JFK-Europe market?
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American 767
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 9):
How more fuel efficient is the a330 compared to the 767-300?

I don't know how more fuel efficient the A330 is compared to the 763 but the A330 must have a cargo capacity at least as much as the 767-300 has, I could be wrong so please don't be afraid to quote me on that one.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 9):
could this possibly help AA be more competitive on the JFK-Europe market?

A lot of European airlines fly the A330 out of JFK and EWR, so AA flying the A330 on the JFK-Europe market could make it competitive against European flag carriers. I've never flown on the A330 so I can't comment much about this airplane, but it has had a large success on major flag carriers around the world. No A vs B war. Both make great airplanes.
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chepos
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting arielwar (Reply 6):

I think this might take a while especially with the whole FA union battle looming

This will end up in a vote for representation, even a blind person can see the outcome of that election. With AA F/A's outnumbering US F/A's almost 2 to 1, in the end regardless of this AFA power struggle APFA should be the eunion representing US F/A's.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
Yes, and I won't be surprised either to see A330s flying out of the JFK hub on routes such as JFK-MIA, JFK-FCO, JFK-ZRH...routes where 763s currently fly out of JFK. Of course not the whole 763 fleet will be replaced with ex-US A330s, that is needless to say, but I do see some 763 routes out of JFK seeing the A330 later this decade.

The A330 fleet has a very small J cabin, while I can definitely see them on routes like JFK-FCO a route like JFK-ZRH is better served by the 767. I can see the A330 on some MIA-South America runs were cargo and extra capacity can come in handy.For example: LIM, GIG, CCS, BOG.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
A lot of European airlines fly the A330 out of JFK and EWR, so AA flying the A330 on the JFK-Europe market could make it competitive against European flag carriers. I've never flown on the A330 so I can't comment much about this airplane, but it has had a large success on major flag carriers around the world. No A vs B war. Both make great airplanes.

Very true, but I should've made my question more clear; I meant if the a330 was more efficient, could it help AA compete on a higher basis (cost-wise) than with the 767s?

Poor wording on my part.  
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crAAzy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:05 am

Quoting IADguy73 (Thread starter):
I'm especially interested in the wide body fleets. Is there any current AA routes that would be better served with an A330 or any current US routes where they could utilize a B777 more efficiently?
Quoting etops1 (Reply 4):

I won't be surprised to see the 777-200 put on PHL-TLV . I could be wrong but it really won't surprise me one bit .

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the new contracts, if ultimately approved after the merger, have clauses in place that will keep employees at their current bases? As such wouldn't this make it particularly difficult to start mixing wide body fleets considering there will be essentially no overlap after the 762s are retired?
 
7673mech
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
As for the international fleet, if US starts retiring more 767's then you could see AA metal move into PHL to take over some of that flying, especially as more 77W's and the 787's come on line. This would make sense as PHL already maintains the 767, so there would be differences training, but it would be a much smaller learning curve than a 777 or moving an A330 into JFK.

Not sure I am reading what you are saying correctly - but bringing a 787 on line anywhere is not a differences training.
It is a totally different beast.
If you meant 777 replacing 767 - yeah - that's a more plausible leap. Legacy Boeing's are all similar. The 787 not so much.

I would think that it will be like UA/CO.
A route at a time - right sizing; as necessary.
 
arielwar
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:42 am

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 13):

Yea they can't cross crews/airplanes for 3 years after the merger gets officially approve.
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:08 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Why don't we wait until the merger is closed.

Because it's fun to speculate and read what everyone thinks!  
Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):
Not sure I am reading what you are saying correctly - but bringing a 787 on line anywhere is not a differences training.
It is a totally different beast.
If you meant 777 replacing 767 - yeah - that's a more plausible leap. Legacy Boeing's are all similar. The 787 not so much.

I believe that the 777 and 787 were given "common type" rating by whatever government agency does such things.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
I believe that the 777 and 787 were given "common type" rating by whatever government agency does such things.

That makes sense. If the 757 and the 767 can do it, so can the 777s and 787s!    
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etops1
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting arielwar (Reply 15):

This is not entirely correct . Crews will not be able to cross fleet until a combined contract is reached which can take 3 yrs or less . However , (Right Sizing )AA aircraft can and will be put on some current US routes and vise versa ASAP after merger closing . Of course all AA metal will be flown by pre merger AA crews . And all US metal will be flown by US crews until combined contracts .
 
7673mech
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
I believe that the 777 and 787 were given "common type" rating by whatever government agency does such things.



Silly me - being a maintenance guy - was thinking from a maintenance perspective.  

[Edited 2013-11-24 11:19:09]
 
apodino
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):
Not sure I am reading what you are saying correctly - but bringing a 787 on line anywhere is not a differences training.
It is a totally different beast.
If you meant 777 replacing 767 - yeah - that's a more plausible leap. Legacy Boeing's are all similar. The 787 not so much.

You completely misunderstood my post. What I meant by the post was that because USAirways mechanics already maintain the 767, once the 787's come online, you can initially use them to replace 767-300 traffic in some hubs, and shift the 767-300's to PHL and CLT, where maintaining them would be easy because of only differences training between the 200 and the 300.
 
usairways85
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:34 pm

I think cross fleeting is a little easier said than done. You have to think about crew and maintenance implications. The narrow body is a little easier to crossfleet because you can still fly a DFW-MCO-CLT-PHL-TPA-DFW type routing and keep the 738 based in DFW since initially I do not believe CLT/PHL will be able to maintain the 738.

The widebodies are harder to rotate like that but I suspect we will eventually see them trickle into the schedule.

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
As for the international fleet, if US starts retiring more 767's then you could see AA metal move into PHL to take over some of that flying, especially as more 77W's and the 787's come on line. This would make sense as PHL already maintains the 767, so there would be differences training, but it would be a much smaller learning curve than a 777 or moving an A330 into JFK.

US' international schedule next summer only has a handful of 762 flts. So it's not like they will need to immediately backfill them.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 13):

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't the new contracts, if ultimately approved after the merger, have clauses in place that will keep employees at their current bases? As such wouldn't this make it particularly difficult to start mixing wide body fleets considering there will be essentially no overlap after the 762s are retired?
Quoting arielwar (Reply 15):
Yea they can't cross crews/airplanes for 3 years after the merger gets officially approve.

You can still do a JFK-LHR-PHL-LHR-MIA type rotation while keeping the crews with the aircraft.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 9):
I'd hope so. I just flew on an a330 earlier this month and it is a HUGE improvement over the AA 767s.

But the product is still subpar compared to the new AA product, which will begin installation on the 763 in January. It's a top notch seat, but US chose the absolute most basic version and cheapest materials.

The A330, as currently configured by US, is best suited for mid-haul from Miami, IMO.
a.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):
The A330, as currently configured by US, is best suited for mid-haul from Miami, IMO.

I forgot that AA was upgrading the 767s. I thought the 777s were being upgraded and replacing the 767s.

However, I agree with what you said. While it isn't bad at all, the a330 in US Airways' setup isn't as good as AA's new seats. From MIA, I could see CCS, BOG, LIM, where cargo is strong.
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oc2dc
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 22):
But the product is still subpar compared to the new AA product, which will begin installation on the 763 in January. It's a top notch seat, but US chose the absolute most basic version and cheapest materials.

Are you saying you have seen the new seats that will be installed on the 763? I assume AA will be showcasing the seats soon...

Also, at least US has IFE in Y on the A330. I don't think AA will be adding IFE to the 763 ever.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 23):
From MIA, I could see CCS, BOG, LIM, where cargo is strong.

MIA-JFK also. If the MIA hub sees the A330 then the MIA-JFK route will, because MIA-JFK has seen most wide body equipment AA has flown out of MIA: A300, 762/763 and 772. I see the A330 doing what the A300 used to do: based in JFK and MIA, flying JFK-MIA-JFK, hauling cargo to South America and fly TATL to some European destinations.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 25):

MIA-JFK also. If the MIA hub sees the A330 then the MIA-JFK route will, because MIA-JFK has seen most wide body equipment AA has flown out of MIA: A300, 762/763 and 772. I see the A330 doing what the A300 used to do: based in JFK and MIA, flying JFK-MIA-JFK, hauling cargo to South America and fly TATL to some European destinations.

That sounds pretty spot on. I'd love to see the a330s at JFK. Maybe they could run them on strong ethnic routes from JFK such as SDQ, SJU (though B6 seems to be locals' choice for this route), PAP.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 24):
Also, at least US has IFE in Y on the A330. I don't think AA will be adding IFE to the 763 ever.

I'd really hope AA is putting AVOD in the 763s. I know it sounds spoiled, but in 2014 it will seem pretty low to not have a PTV for an 8-9 hour flight.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
usairways85
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 26):
That sounds pretty spot on. I'd love to see the a330s at JFK. Maybe they could run them on strong ethnic routes from JFK such as SDQ, SJU (though B6 seems to be locals' choice for this route), PAP.

Hasn't AA retreated in these routes over the past few years?

The 330s are configured for Int'l service so I'm not sure I can see them being widely used on JFK/MIA-Caribbean unless they are reconfigured. Weren't the A300s that ran these routes configured with a type of domestic F?
 
SPREE34
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:00 pm

I'd bet they will look for synergies, but since AA has about 107 wide bodies (not incl 762) and US has a whopping 30, there's not much to work with form the US side.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA/US Fleet Mixing - When And Where?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 27):
The 330s are configured for Int'l service so I'm not sure I can see them being widely used on JFK/MIA-Caribbean unless they are reconfigured. Weren't the A300s that ran these routes configured with a type of domestic F?

The AA A300s flew international and then were reconfigured for domestic and US-Caribbean with standard domestic F, so I guess the same can be done with the A330s also.

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