Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
united319
Topic Author
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:07 am

How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:11 am

Hello All,

Wanted to know if anyone had some information on how much longer the Brasalia's will be around flying for United. I have seen at least 2 aircraft painted in the Globe Livery. Also when the day comes for the EMB-120 to leave, what will they do about cities that don't have long enough runways or can't justify service with a 50-76 seat Jet. Possible Q400's in the fleet to come for OO? I will surely miss that little Embraer. Love flying on it, by far my favorite of the Turbo Props.

Thanks,

UAL
It's Time To Fly
 
durangomac
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:13 am

Not sure at this point but for a while longer because OO just had an EMB-120 lease return and they picked up an EMB-120 they had returned over a year ago to take its place.

I suspect the EMB-120 will be in the fleet for at least several years if not over 5 years.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 25336
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:37 am

Its up to Skywest really.

United continues to trim the flying and is down to paying for only 9 of the E120 frames today. Rest are at risk operated by OO.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
93Sierra
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:30 pm

Skywest loves the bro and makes money flying them. The bad news is that there is nothing to replace it. I had always hoped that Embraer would have made a next gen model. The airframe and wing are very efficient, no need to change anything there. But a possible engine upgrade, select use of lighter material inside, new avionics aka glass, updated interior with LEDs and lighter seats, along with some carbon fiber props with qtips and some winglets
Would make for a fast and nicely updated aircraft.

I have always liked the Bro better than the Saab 340
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5111
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:35 pm

Skywest is flying alot of these routes because they actually make money. They might be at risk but they are to markets where no low fares exist so they print money. I think skywest will keep flying them as long as they can, they have nothing to replace them. Any market that cant support a CRJ will probably loose service.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
United continues to trim the flying and is down to paying for only 9 of the E120 frames today. Rest are at risk operated by OO

They seem to be the ticket in a number of the mountain markets out of DEN. OO uses the EMB-120 on routes that were previously DH-82s and BE-1900s. They are a workhorse that is for sure.

Frontier 14
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Its up to Skywest really.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Skywest loves the bro and makes money flying them.

The Bro is second only to the CRJ-900 in terms of money makers at SkyWest. The airplane is stupidly efficient and breaks even with a handful of seats filled (less than half and it'll break even) while filling a market few other airplanes can with airframes that are all but paid for. They won't go anywhere for several years as long as there are parts to keep them running. Finding parts seems to be the biggest challenge right now.

[Edited 2013-11-25 13:41:38]
Life is better when you surf.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:16 am

Hmmm... I was under the impression that these a/c could still be ordered through EMB as one off units. Is that not the case any longer? If they make *that* much money, wouldn't it be more beneficial for skywest to pick up some new ones?
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Skywest is flying alot of these routes because they actually make money. They might be at risk but they are to markets where no low fares exist so they print money. I think skywest will keep flying them as long as they can, they have nothing to replace them. Any market that cant support a CRJ will probably loose service.

As recently as '09, Skywest was warning stations like SUN that the 120 would be gone shortly, prompting SUN to look for a new location for the airport.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5031
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:18 am

Quoting UPNYGuy (Reply 7):
Hmmm... I was under the impression that these a/c could still be ordered through EMB as one off units. Is that not the case any longer? If they make *that* much money, wouldn't it be more beneficial for skywest to pick up some new ones?

New airframes, yes. New engines and props, well, only if you can find any on the spare market.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
As recently as '09, Skywest was warning stations like SUN that the 120 would be gone shortly, prompting SUN to look for a new location for the airport.

The airport's been looking for a replacement for far longer than that. Of course, now that SkyWest has autorization to fly the CRJ-700 into SUN, the threat is somewhat redundant.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:43 pm

Knowing UA?

As long as it stays together.   

But seriously, it's a great little airplane since it's ridiculously efficient.

Maybe if they can figure out a replacement for it?
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:30 pm

Quoting UPNYGuy (Reply 7):

One of the reasons they stopped making them was the capital cost. Once the plane crossed the $8 million a copy cost orders died. A new build can be had, last price I saw was $10 million. Cheaper than and RJ, but tough to recoup with only 30 seats. It's the same reason that ATR hasn't sold many of the -42s even though they are available as a -600.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3421
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Both the 120 and Bandit are still on the company's website.

http://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/Pages/Turboprops.aspx

I agree with one of the posts that the only thing the 120 needed was an engine update. But if it costs more than 10 mill a copy I see why the airilnes stopped ordering them.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3421
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Maybe Embraer can pull this prototype out of mothballs and do something with it.............I thought this was a Bandit replacement though.

https://www.airliners.net/search/phot...IA-70%20Parana&distinct_entry=true
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting william (Reply 13):

I wish they just take a look at a prop version of the 140 and 145. That would be a pretty slick bird if they could do it aerodynamically. New wing for sure, probably a new tail, but it's the same tube.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 9):
The airport's been looking for a replacement for far longer than that.

They may have been (and my timeline may be off), but there was a renewed sense of urgency when Skywest told them that. Even at that, they couldn't come up with a workable plan.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
N1120A
Posts: 26659
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 5):
They seem to be the ticket in a number of the mountain markets out of DEN. OO uses the EMB-120 on routes that were previously DH-82s and BE-1900s. They are a workhorse that is for sure.

Oddly enough, the Bro had a lot of early troubles out of DEN.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 14):
I wish they just take a look at a prop version of the 140 and 145. That would be a pretty slick bird if they could do it aerodynamically

Yep - the 135-145 family are based on the Brasilia.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
93Sierra
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:15 pm

What kind of trouble? How does the bro compare to the Dash 8 and Beech 1900
Is icing and summertime weight penaltys?
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5031
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:32 pm

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 17):
What kind of trouble? How does the bro compare to the Dash 8 and Beech 1900
Is icing and summertime weight penaltys?

It tends to see fairly heavy weight restrictions in summer.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
93Sierra
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:10 pm

Sorry for the bad spelling above, fat fingers on my phone!

How does the economics of the Bro vs Saab 340 work out?

Did Silver consider finding some Brasilias or are there not enough on the used market?
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:16 am

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 19):
Did Silver consider finding some Brasilias or are there not enough on the used market?

They had a few back in the Gulfstream Intl days. A lot of the current Saab flying is former Colgan birds on former colgan runs.
Trikes are for kids!
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:09 am

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 19):
How does the economics of the Bro vs Saab 340 work out?

Fuel burn at equal weights and equal altitudes is slightly lower on the Bro than the Saab, but the Saab could also carry an extra couple passengers under the same conditions. The MTOW on the Bro is a few thousand pounds lighter than the Saab despite having a higher SHP output on each side.
Life is better when you surf.
 
BoeingMerica
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:39 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:29 pm

What routes do they fly these birds on?

I had no idea that UA or it's regional partners still flew prop planes after the Colgan accident in Buffalo. I know abandoning prop planes due to one accident makes little aviation economic sense. But the public flying decidedly avoids these planes when possible.

For instance, I was trying to fly TLH-TPA (yes I know it is only a 6 or so hr drive) and Silver Airways (SIL) flys the route, but it is prop only. My mother who was in town and accompanying on the flight refused to fly them and opted for TLH-MIA-TPA to avoid it.

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11689
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 22):
I had no idea that UA or it's regional partners still flew prop planes after the Colgan accident in Buffalo. I know abandoning prop planes due to one accident makes little aviation economic sense. But the public flying decidedly avoids these planes when possible.

UA Express has a lot of prop planes. ATRs, Q200s, Q300s, Q400s, Beech 1900Ds along with the EMB-120. In fact I think more props fly under the UA banner then any other legacy (US may have slightly more).
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: How Much Longer Will The EMB-120 Fly For UA?

Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 22):
What routes do they fly these birds on?

Out of LAX they serve SAN, CRQ, PSP, BFL, FAT, SBP, SMX, SBA and YUM. Out of SFO they serve MOD, SMF, SBP, SBA, BFL, FAT, RDD, CIC, CEC, OTH, MFR, RDM, LMH and ACV. The Portland system sees RDM, EUG, and SEA mostly but all are linked to UA (most Bro routes are SkyWest's own at-risk routes.) SkyWest also connects PSP-LAS and FAT-LAS as well as SMF-ACV/CEC.

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 22):
I had no idea that UA or it's regional partners still flew prop planes after the Colgan accident in Buffalo.

That accident had nothing to do with the airplane being a prop plane. In fact the Q400 is more advanced than a lot of mainline airplanes from the 80s and 90s era.

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 22):
But the public flying decidedly avoids these planes when possible.

Which is sad because they're just as safe. Several of the -120s are late 90s builds, far newer than many mainline airplanes that passengers connect to or from yet they've been unfairly imaged as "old" or "unsafe" despite SkyWest's outstanding safety record with that airframe. Of course for many communities it is props or no service at all.
Life is better when you surf.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos