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Miami
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Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:45 am

HA will star PEK service beginning on April 16, 2014.

This will be Hawaiian's first nonstop to China.

HNL-PEK will be 3 weekly

HA897 HNL0050 – 0555+1PEK 332 135
HA898 PEK0105 – 1710-1HNL 332 357

Source: http://airlineroute.net/2013/11/26/ha-pek-s14/

-Miami   
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bjorn14
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:13 pm

I wonder why they didn't choose PVG first? Good luck to them anyway as it should be a good market.
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migair54
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:25 pm

wow HA is really growing fast, building a good hub in HNL, how many new routes have rhey opened in the last 2-3 years?

I remember not long ago they were in financial problems, have they changed so much and so fast? What's the secret?
 
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Coal
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 1):
I wonder why they didn't choose PVG first? Good luck to them anyway as it should be a good market.

MU already flies PVG - HNL 3x weekly on A346 equipment (this last bit I may be wrong). Might as well tap into another market, and North China makes a lot of sense.

HA is really growing and it's good to see a quality US airline doing so. I wish (but will never happen) that US authorities would allow int'l to int'l transfers at HNL. I think this could open some very interesting possibilities for HA to capture Asia - Latin America traffic (if they flew to Latin America, of course), but obviously that will never happen.

Having said that, I wonder if HA could potentially use HNL as a transiting hub for Asia - Secondary US cities over the next 5-10 years.

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Coal
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RWA380
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:42 pm

Already been announced:

HA Announces New Service To China; Ends Manila (by Jamake1 Apr 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)

But as this is a closed thread, discuss further if y'all wish.
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HAL
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 4):
Already been announced:

HA Announces New Service To China; Ends Manila (by Jamake1 Apr 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)

But as this is a closed thread, discuss further if y'all wish.

I think it came up because the ticket sales to PEK began today.

HAL
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trex8
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 3):
I wish (but will never happen) that US authorities would allow int'l to int'l transfers at HNL.

Why is that?
 
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Coal
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:36 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 6):
Why is that?

I meant to say without having to clear immigration and customs. Sorry.

Cheers
Coal
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Jetstar315
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:25 am

I believe you can't transfer from International to International at Honolulu without going outside of a sterile/secure area so the only alternative is to clear customs and immigration first. It's all to do with the design of the terminal building, and not because the authorities just won't allow it.
 
EY460
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:55 am

On a side note, HA has now more A330 (14) than B767 (13).

http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Hawaiian-Airlines
 
AM777LR
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:19 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 7):

That is the one thing I don't like about US airports...and all the congestion and TSA pat downs. Domestic and international flights should be separate so you only "enter" the US if you need to make a domestic connection or if that location is your final destination. This would bring up revenues for US carriers but will most likely never happen because every international airport would have to be re-built. Unless...only major hubs have this system, for example. small airports with international flight like SAN, SNA, and LGA could stay the same while bigger airports like LAX, SFO, DFW, IAH, MIA, JFK, EWR and OHR (Just to name a few) would be re-worked inside. This I could see happening.
 
PHX787
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:00 am

HA is gonna continue to make a huge bite into Asia....with the A350 deliveries right around the bend, one can only imagine how they're going to increase services.
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777fan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:05 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
HA is gonna continue to make a huge bite into Asia....with the A350 deliveries right around the bend, one can only imagine how they're going to increase services.

Which begs the inevitable question: how much O&D can HNL support (or will HA attempt to emulate the EK/DXB model)? The advent of ULH aircraft eliminates the need for a mid-Pac stopover and realistically, there's a finite amount of business and tourism in the isles.

777fan
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Coal
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:16 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 8):
and not because the authorities just won't allow it.

There's no US airport that allows int'l to int'l transfers w/o clearing immigration and customs.

Cheers
Coal
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JQflightie
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:38 am

Can I say, as ive not seen anyone write this about HA, if they are trying to be a 'true' pacific region carrier, for the love of god! INSTALL A LIE FLAT BED!!!! PLEASE!!!!   
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usdcaguy
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:59 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14):
Can I say, as ive not seen anyone write this about HA, if they are trying to be a 'true' pacific region carrier, for the love of god! INSTALL A LIE FLAT BED!!!! PLEASE!!!!

I have been thinking this very same thing. However, you have to remember that HA is almost all leisure, and they are just now beginning to offer connections between business centers via HNL. I would guess that lie-flats may come in the future, but the US carriers, particularly those as small as HA, are often loathe to commit a bunch of capital to projects that may or may not pan out. Just look at the other US carriers. We had to wait years for them to finally start putting lie-flats in, and DL and others are still not finished after all this time.
 
ha763
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:07 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 8):

I believe you can't transfer from International to International at Honolulu without going outside of a sterile/secure area so the only alternative is to clear customs and immigration first. It's all to do with the design of the terminal building, and not because the authorities just won't allow it.

Not quite true. The design of the Diamond Head and Ewa Concourses would easily allow it and would need only a couple of changes. The only things that would need to be installed are a checkpoint on the walkway to the concourses to only allow departing international pax into the area and a gate on the service vehicle ramp up to the 3rd level. The only problem is that it would cause the current gate shortage to be worse during the busy mid-day rush.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14):
Can I say, as ive not seen anyone write this about HA, if they are trying to be a 'true' pacific region carrier, for the love of god! INSTALL A LIE FLAT BED!!!! PLEASE!!!!

I don't see why it would be necessary for HA to have lie flat seats. JAL, ANA, Qantas, and others do not have lie flat seats on their flights. However, HA does need to install better seats up front.
 
JQflightie
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting ha763 (Reply 16):
Quoting ha763 (Reply 16):

But even on a flight Hawaii to the mainland it would be nicer to have a flat bed.

Actually, QF have been running our A330-300/200's on SYD/MEL-PER with our SkyBed equipped aircraft, also both A333 and A332 will have new lie flat beds commencing 2014.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 15):

Completely understand this, but you would think that a brand new A330 of HA would have better J/C seats then say our QF 767 which flies SYD-HNL which isn't lie flat but it's the old style international cradle seat which is very comfortable.
Especially when HA is doing a huge push for pax to connect onto JFK.
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azjubilee
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 17):
But even on a flight Hawaii to the mainland it would be nicer to have a flat bed

HALs domestic product is perfectly fine and quite competitive with the exception of the JFK flight. People are not going to pay the premium that HAL will have to charge for a flat bed seat on a 5 hour flight to the west coast. It's also not really necessary as the bulk of the schedule is daytime flying with the exception of the LAS, LAX and JFK red-eyes. I can see the need on the JFK flight, but not a short flight. Even that will be difficult because as HAL is learning, people aren't even really willing to spend a premium price for the non-stop JFK-HNL flight. When the competition is discounting a 1-stop itinerary, HAL has to match those fares.

I do agree however that HAL has to do something soon for the international flights. With JAL, ANA, DL, UA, KE, OZ and soon QF and NZ improving their products or currently flying lie flats, HAL will have to remain competitive. I believe they recognize this and something has got to be in the works. The problem lies in the fact that HAL does not have a dedicated domestic or international fleet. HAL will have to find a balance somehow to meet the needs of the international passenger and also keep from pricing themselves out of the F class domestic market.
 
dtfg
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:21 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 3):
MU already flies PVG - HNL 3x weekly on A346 equipment (this last bit I may be wrong).

They are now using 332 for this route and will increase to 5x weekly in Dec.

The interesting thing I think is that CA will start the same route (PEK-HNL) on Jan 14 on 3x weekly basis. It remains to be seen how the two (CA and HA) compete with each other.

[Edited 2013-11-27 20:22:46]
 
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hawaiian717
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:00 am

Quoting ha763 (Reply 16):
Not quite true. The design of the Diamond Head and Ewa Concourses would easily allow it and would need only a couple of changes. The only things that would need to be installed are a checkpoint on the walkway to the concourses to only allow departing international pax into the area and a gate on the service vehicle ramp up to the 3rd level. The only problem is that it would cause the current gate shortage to be worse during the busy mid-day rush.

Sterile international transit has been done at HNL before. In 1999 I flew HNL-YVR on Air Canada. It was a late night departure out of the Ewa Concourse. From what I recall, by gate 26 we were directed inside, where passports and IDs were checked, and we were told we wouldn't be able to go back outside. At the time, NZ/AC and QF/CP used HNL as a transit point between Australia/New Zealand and Canada. Passengers would fly up on NZ/QF and transfer to a Canadian carrier to continue their journey. They were able to make the connection without leaving the Ewa Concourse, and without asking through US customs and immigration. On the return trip to HNL, we were treated in YVR as an international flight, not transborder, and didn't use customs preclearance there, but instead went though at HNL. I believe this was because so many of the passengers were continuing on to the South Pacific.

Other airports in the US have accommodations for sterile international transit, such as transit lounges separate from the normal departure lounges. But these aren't currently obvious to arriving passengers, since current US policy requires all arriving passengers to proceed through customs immigration. I believe this change came sometime after 9/11.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
There's no US airport that allows int'l to int'l transfers w/o clearing immigration and customs.

Correct. ATL and IAH will let you go through without retrieving bags and re-delivering them to an airline counter, so long as your transfers are international-to-international with DL in the first instance and with UA in the second one. Not a lot, but at least that is something.
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777fan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:39 pm

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 20):
In 1999 I flew HNL-YVR on Air Canada.

Right, but the HNL component of this flight was not so much O&D between YVR and the Isles as much as it was a transit between Canada and Australia. I flew the SYD-HNL leg on several occasions in the mid-2000s (AC31, I believe) and on nearly every arrival into HNL was one of maybe ten people whose destination was HNL.

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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 18):
HALs domestic product is perfectly fine and quite competitive with the exception of the JFK flight.

And still, trust me, HA is getting their name around in New York. I have a few friends who go to Hawaii once or twice a year (they always send me pics of the flights so I can live vicariously through them   ) and LOVE Hawaiian. A few are glad they can go out of JFK instead of trekking out to EWR.

I'm really glad to see HA doing well. They have such a good product and consistent service. I saw on the news up by me that HA was rated most reliable for holiday travels with only 7% of their flights being delayed or cancelled. And even though they fly less planes and into/out of a lot less congested airports than their fellow domestic US airlines, that is still an impressive number.
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WesternA318
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:55 pm

Damn good to hear, I'm crossing my fingers I'll beable to hop on an A330-200 of HA's...  
 
Viscount724
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 22):
Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 20):
In 1999 I flew HNL-YVR on Air Canada.

Right, but the HNL component of this flight was not so much O&D between YVR and the Isles as much as it was a transit between Canada and Australia. I flew the SYD-HNL leg on several occasions in the mid-2000s (AC31, I believe) and on nearly every arrival into HNL was one of maybe ten people whose destination was HNL.

There were also many YVR-HNL turnaround flights where virtually all passengers were O&D Canada-Hawaii.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines To Start Beijing

Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 20):
Other airports in the US have accommodations for sterile international transit, such as transit lounges separate from the normal departure lounges. But these aren't currently obvious to arriving passengers, since current US policy requires all arriving passengers to proceed through customs immigration. I believe this change came sometime after 9/11.

The U.S.'s Transit Without Visa (TWOV) program was suspended in August 2003. That killed the easy, visa-free transits and thus the sterile international to international transit facilities in the U.S. generally.

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