TWA85
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New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:42 pm

Hello Everybody and Happy Holidays!

What will the new AA JFK network look like in five years after the merger dust has settled? What role (if any) will JFK play in the combined airlines network? Will the new AA maintain the status quo or will adjustments be made? If adjustments are made what will they be? My prediction is that the status quo will for the most part stay the same with a few slight adjusments. JFK will primarily fill the role as an international focus city used to capitalize upon the large O&D market in the NYC area. A few regional connectios will be maintained while the remaining regional flights will be reallocated to longer flights. A few more transcon routes could also be added in an attempt to remain competeive with UA and DL. What are your thoughts?
 
WesternA318
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:45 pm

IMHO, the transcons will stay for sure, there are just too many corporate contracts that rely on those JFK-LAX/SFO flights. A majority of the TATL flights will stay, especially the LHR flights. As for the domestic flying, I'm thinhking we may see additional flights from other cities currently not served, but we shall see. The times sure look interesting for the "new" AA and JFK, thats for sure.
 
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N62NA
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 1):
The times sure look interesting for the "new" AA and JFK, thats for sure.

I think that things will tend to stay as they are at JFK. No real expansion or contraction. LGA is the "domestic" airport for NYC and will remain that way with AA's domestic ops concentrated there.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:06 pm

I think that, if there are any cuts at LGA outside of PHL, CLT, DFW, or other overlapping markets, they might be shifted over to JFK, but other than that I just see some adjustments here and there with what they already have.

With the added efficiency of the a321s that will be replacing 757s, maybe they can try to gain some share of the Caribbean back, albeit not nearly on the scale that they did before (i.e. more capacity to SJU, MAYBE restarting SDQ/PUJ eventually, but that's about it).
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
WesternA318
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 2):
I think that things will tend to stay as they are at JFK. No real expansion or contraction. LGA is the "domestic" airport for NYC and will remain that way with AA's domestic ops concentrated there.

My line of thinking was beyond the LGA perimeter limits....I tend to think LGA will pretty much stay the same, though.
 
jfk777
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:02 pm

More transcons to Phoenix. JFK to Shanghai will probably happen.
 
seatback
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:45 pm

I would expect the new AA to work at regaining some lost ground that Delta has taken in the last few years. AA is still a very strong player in the area, with many FF and corporate contracts. In general, AA concentrate on high yield business markets at JFK, while letting PHL handle the business, plus leisure markets.

Both hubs will work very well together.
 
WesternA318
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 6):
I would expect the new AA to work at regaining some lost ground that Delta has taken in the last few years. AA is still a very strong player in the area, with many FF and corporate contracts. In general, AA concentrate on high yield business markets at JFK, while letting PHL handle the business, plus leisure markets.

Both hubs will work very well together.

That's kinda what I was getting at. AA simply has way too many corporate contracts that rely on the JFK transcons for it to show any deterioration of service.
 
capri
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:12 am

Will we ever see AA in Africa, what potential can they have over there, or what does it take/need to make Africa attractive to US market and grow?
 
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American 767
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 2):
LGA is the "domestic" airport for NYC

So is JFK. From JFK you can fly nonstop to West Coast markets, which you cannot do from LGA because of runway lengths and perimeter rules. And there are a few Florida markets, besides MIA, where you can fly to nonstop from JFK: MCO, TPA,...FLL not anymore...as well as a few other domestic markets, BOS, IAH, PHX,...I'm not talking about flights to the main hubs, anyway the point is JFK isn't just an internationa gAAtewAAy, it offers connections to several domestic markets around the country.

Forget EWR. American is weak there, with only 10 mainline flights a day: 6x daily DFW, 3x daily MIA and 1x daily LAX. EWR-ORD is no longer mainline, it's all Eagle. And EWR-LHR is now flown on BA metal only, as far as One World is concerned.

I would consider LGA/JFK combined a hub for American, with nearly 200 departures a day if not more, Eagle and mainline combined.

Quoting capri (Reply 8):
Will we ever see AA in Africa, what potential can they have over there, or what does it take/need to make Africa attractive to US market and grow?

This was discussed in another thread recently, AA flying to South Africa. It might happen when they get the 787-9. If they fly to JFK, it will be from either JFK or MIA. On the way back, they would stop in CPT to pick up passengers and fuel.
JFK-NBO, maybe. If not daily, 3x weekly.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
arielwar
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:16 am

Hopefully the get to finish building their terminal to how it was suppose to get build and have BA IB move in
 
crAAzy
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:57 am

Does anyone have any information as to how many passenger AA funnels to B6 and where in the NE?

I would image if you combine this information with some of the stronger US markets in the area it may provide some clues as to potential new markets out of JFK.

I really don't see the AA/B6 relationship lasting in it's current form after the merger, especially with B6 in the BOS market and potentially getting more DCA spots.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:41 am

B6/AA will be a very interesting one to watch.

B6 does provide access to some important markets like DEN, SLC, MSY, PDX, HOU, JAX, PBI and then some close regional connections to BTV, ROC, SYR, BUF all missing markets from JFK for AA.

B6 helps AA to feed its international and Caribbean flights and B6 gets European flights to help its FFs. For B6 feed from AA frequent Flyer base in the area to AA underserved N/S markets is nice. They compliment each other very nicely.

B6 FFs in the BOS area get two of the most important markets to earn miles on LHR and CDG*(not sure if that's coming back)

B6 JFK flyers get I think 12-13 international routes to earn miles on. Including the most important business markets like CDG, LHR, GRU. Its certainly nice for B6 to keep more flyers happy for the occasional business trip. Happy B6 loyal flyers who might have the occasional yearly international business trip but don't want to loose out on miles.

I think the relationship has helped both. I don't see why AA would want to leave the relationship personally I think AA gains a lot from it and keeps B6 as a friend away from other airlines. Its kind of a win-win I think. They don't offer partnership on competing routes its totally complimentary. I would assume B6 would pull if they were to partner with someone else but AA looks to me like its a good fit.
 
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American 767
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:43 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
If they fly to JFK,

My mistake. I meant if they fly to JNB. I'm surprised no one has quoted me on this.
Ben Soriano
 
eastern023
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:32 am

Would DCA-JFK ever go mainline?
AA will Rise Again!
 
TWA85
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:48 am

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 14):

I would not be surprised if that happens. Especially after the DCA slot divesture. I could see two daily mainline JFK-DCA flights.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:52 am

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 15):
I would not be surprised if that happens. Especially after the DCA slot divesture. I could see two daily mainline JFK-DCA flights.

If not mainline at least E-175s. I do, however, think the route see will mainline eventually.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:19 am

increasing ORD-JFK and maybe starting TLV from JFK and other Asian cities.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:05 am

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 17):
maybe starting TLV from JFK and other Asian cities.

I'm curious to see how they're going to settle that with the Israel. American has a judgement against them there and currently declines to serve the route to avoid payment. Has to do with Israeli employment law making the former TWA station expendable after the AA-TW merger.
 
klwright69
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
JFK-NBO, maybe. If not daily, 3x weekly.

You're joking right? Long and thin, thin, thin. CO took years before they finally decided to launch LOS, and LOS is a huge business market with ties to IAH.
 
vtmaa
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:15 pm

I wish they do a JFK-ELM couple of times a day with exUS dash8's. DL wasn't able to sustain the route, but I am hoping this will happen. Will ease my India travels!
 
etops1
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 18):

I think that is has already been settled. If not , it will be soon . There is no way the New AA will not continue serving TLV either from PHL or any other origin .
 
klwright69
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 21):
I think that is has already been settled. If not , it will be soon . There is no way the New AA will not continue serving TLV either from PHL or any other origin .

Thank you, this is my thought. No one has any DEFINITIVE information on this. No one in Israel has mentioned any news of this matter on this forum. None of the "insiders" here know anything. A thread was started on this topic not long ago. I asked if anyone had any real conclusive answers on this matter, that pretty much ended the entire thread. I thought it was a shocking blunder of AA not to assume TW's postion in Israel, but that's water under the bridge.

AA not building up JFK was another missed opportunity. JFK-IAH was ill-conceived and doomed to fail, and it did, how many times did CO try that route? Let's hope they do better with new routes to JFK next time.
 
cjpmaestro
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 6):
I would expect the new AA to work at regaining some lost ground that Delta has taken in the last few years. AA is still a very strong player in the area, with many FF and corporate contracts. In general, AA concentrate on high yield business markets at JFK, while letting PHL handle the business, plus leisure markets.

Both hubs will work very well together.

I agree. While geographically close, they serve two very different purposes. It will be interesting to see how they will mesh the two together. Do you think we'll see AA/US start JFK-PHL service pretty quickly after the December 9th close? Currently only Delta serves this route with 4 flights a day. The airline could shuttle passengers between the two airports taking advantage of connections and international service that exists independently.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:03 pm

I think actions speak louder than words or press releases or promises to the DOJ

Beyond a new transcon product, JFK has felt very little love lately with many flights cut over the last 6 months.

Have they surrendered these slots or are they upping frequency on other routes?


Plus, Doug Parker showed his thoughts about LGA and NYC in particular as they let Terminal C go from shining star to near disrepair, slot-squatted with turboprops, slashed all mainline flying except Shuttle and to Hubs, stopped all advertising, and eventually traded away most of their slot for a lot less in return.

Question is, new company new day, or same old corporate philosophy?
 
HPRamper
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 24):
Plus, Doug Parker showed his thoughts about LGA and NYC in particular as they let Terminal C go from shining star to near disrepair, slot-squatted with turboprops, slashed all mainline flying except Shuttle and to Hubs, stopped all advertising, and eventually traded away most of their slot for a lot less in return.

Question is, new company new day, or same old corporate philosophy?

I don't think US under Parker really gave two rips about LGA, but I wouldn't say they got way less in return for the LGA slots. They received enough DCA slots to be able to call it a hub, and they make a lot more money there than they did at LGA. They also did not trade most of their slots away - they still have a very large presence there. Even DL now doesn't seem to really know what to do with their LGA conundrum.
 
flyguy1
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 24):
I think actions speak louder than words or press releases or promises to the DOJ

Beyond a new transcon product, JFK has felt very little love lately with many flights cut over the last 6 months.

Have they surrendered these slots or are they upping frequency on other routes?

A few of the cut flights are being picked up by partners (JAL, BA). It seems like the rest of the cuts though, are going to fund the extra flights to LAX, and SFO. IIRC, they are adding about 4-5 frequencies in those markets.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 24):
Plus, Doug Parker showed his thoughts about LGA and NYC in particular as they let Terminal C go from shining star to near disrepair, slot-squatted with turboprops, slashed all mainline flying except Shuttle and to Hubs, stopped all advertising, and eventually traded away most of their slot for a lot less in return.

Question is, new company new day, or same old corporate philosophy?

I would lean towards a new strategy for NYC. In the past, US could only offer short haul domestic flying from LGA, whereas now, they can offer the NYC market a more complete product. Short haul domestic stuff will go from LGA, and everything else will go from JFK.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
WesternA318
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
Even DL now doesn't seem to really know what to do with their LGA conundrum.

As of late, DL has made quite an expansion and improvements to the LGA offerings...I dont see much of a conundrum there, especially with a LOT of the 50-seat flying being upguaged to smaller mainline planes such as the 717.

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 26):
I would lean towards a new strategy for NYC. In the past, US could only offer short haul domestic flying from LGA, whereas now, they can offer the NYC market a more complete product. Short haul domestic stuff will go from LGA, and everything else will go from JFK.

I agree with this theory, the "new" AA will have a nice little portfolio of options to/from the big apple, not just for business travelers, either. Just a dumb question, but what is the combined carrier's strength from EWR?

[Edited 2013-11-30 10:21:35]
 
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cosyr
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm

Where are the slots coming from for any changes? Would they reduce flights to cities with multiple frequencies, or cut small cities? Could they get more from B6 or OneWorld partners? Is there anyone in NY who wants to give up slots?
 
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American 767
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 19):
You're joking right? Long and thin, thin, thin. CO took years before they finally decided to launch LOS, and LOS is a huge business market with ties to IAH.

I'm not saying they will do it. I was only speculating about a possible market in Africa if AA expands in that part of the world. I'm wondering why DL doesn't fly to NBO. I checked on their Africa map an they don't. They fly to six destinations in Africa and the Middle East including JNB, NBO, LOS, TLV, Accra and Dakar.
Ben Soriano
 
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N62NA
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:59 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 27):
Just a dumb question, but what is the combined carrier's strength from EWR?

Next to nothing.

For AA: RJs to ORD, a few flights to DFW, 2 or 3 flights (depending on day/season) to MIA, and an oddball 1x per day to LAX.

For US: 3x to PHX, 10X to CLT and a handful of props to PHL.

EWR will remain not important at all.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 30):
Next to nothing.

For AA: RJs to ORD, a few flights to DFW, 2 or 3 flights (depending on day/season) to MIA, and an oddball 1x per day to LAX.

For US: 3x to PHX, 10X to CLT and a handful of props to PHL.

EWR will remain not important at all.

I count 6 mainline to DFW tomorrow all mainline. That's still a lot of seats daily when you look at US/AA combined opertion. Remember EWR is United Country after all. I wouldn't say AA is weak at EWR either. Its a normal business important spoke city.

[Edited 2013-11-30 18:52:12]
 
MAH4546
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 30):
2 or 3 flights (depending on day/season) to MIA

It's 3x daily, year-round. Sometimes in September or October third flight might not fly on a Tuesday or Wednesday,but that was not the case this year.

A very healthy presence for an out station.

And I guess every route that AA flies once a day is oddball?

[Edited 2013-11-30 19:48:23]
a.
 
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N62NA
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
It's 3x daily, year-round. Sometimes in September or October third flight might not fly on a Tuesday or Wednesday,but that was not the case this year.

It's not been 3x daily, year round, as you wrote in your reply! ("Sometimes in September or October...") Nor do you or anyone else know what it's going to be 1 year, or 5 years from now, so your attempt at correcting me fails.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):
A very healthy presence for an out station.

I'll agree with you on that one - EWR is an "out station" for not only AA but DL too.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 32):

And I guess every route that AA flies once a day is oddball?

And I guess you just can't resist sarcasm and smarminess. We're heading into a new year soon. I hope one of your New Year's resolutions is to stop attacking people on here and trying to make them look uninformed simply because they have different opinions than you do and, as illustrated above, actually post correct information.
 
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STT757
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 33):
I'll agree with you on that one - EWR is an "out station" for not only AA but DL too.

For DL it's an outstation with two daily International flights, CDG and AMS, and soon they will have the two daily VS LHR flights. That's better than CVG which is still considered a hub.


AA is currently flying JFK-TPA with a CR7, that's not going to last.

[Edited 2013-12-02 05:02:13 by SA7700]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bobnwa
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
and they make a lot more money there than they did at LGA.


How do you know this? What are the numbers?
 
avi8
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:17 pm

Why did AA change the JFK-TPA flight to Eagle? They were mainline. DL is two daily with mainline.
avi8

Medschool student
 
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N62NA
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RE: New AA JFK Network In 5 Years?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 34):
For DL it's an outstation with two daily International flights, CDG and AMS, and soon they will have the two daily VS LHR flights.

Yep, an outstation. Want to fly to a DL hub? You're in luck! Want to fly to other major cities? Sorry, no non-stops for you, go to LGA and JFK if you want non-stops to non-hub cities!

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