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nighthawk
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Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:57 pm

News still breaking, but apparently a helicopter has crashed into a pub in Glasgow.

More as it appears..
 
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Richard28
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Sky news reporting it is a police helicopter....
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:04 pm

eyewitness reporting it to be a police helicopter, also reporting that the engine appeared to be spluttering, before it came down on the roof of the pub.

No injuries reported, but the passengers of the helicopter are "trapped" inside.
 
alasdair1982
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:09 pm

The pub is on the other side of Clyde Street running alongside the river, and metres from a road and railway bridge crossing the river.
 
alasdair1982
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:21 pm

https://twitter.com/rupertgmorris/status/406559498447646720/photo/1/large

Yikes!
 
AR385
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:29 pm

Sounds bad. I can´t imagine being in a pub and that happening all of a sudden. I hope everbody is ok.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:30 pm

Didn't the Strathclyde Police helicopter fly into a tower block a few years back as well?
 
Noris
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:52 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
eyewitness reporting it to be a police helicopter, also reporting that the engine appeared to be spluttering, before it came down on the roof of the pub.

No Fire, engine spluttering = fuel loss/starvation/empty tanks?

My thoughts are with the injured!

Rgds.
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
Didn't the Strathclyde Police helicopter fly into a tower block a few years back as well?

Yes, on 24 January 1990 at Eastwood Toll not far from where I used to live.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...%20206B%20II,%20G-EYEI%2005-90.pdf
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:30 am

 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:59 am

I thought the same thing. Misfiring engine and no fire? Sounds a hell of a lot like fuel starvation but that would require a mistake with refuelling AND a failure in the fuel gauge. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. Let's all hope for no fatalities.
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:00 am

Read that the three on board perished.

Fingers crossed there are no more casualties.
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sandyb123
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:05 am

Sounds scary but at this stage there doesn't seem to be any critically injured. I hope this remains the case.

I am sure more will come of this over the next 24 hours

Looks like the aircraft involved was EC 135 G-SPAO.

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trintocan
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:58 am

Very tragic incident, the news (BBC) right now saying that there are reports of multiple casualties but as yet no definitive numbers. On a night like tonight with the countdown to Christmas and a busy night for pubs in a city as vibrant as Glasgow, this is shocking. The chopper is a police chopper with 3 on board.

My thoughts are with everyone affected.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
RussianJet
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:08 am

Horrible freak accident! Thoughts to all those caught up in it. Here's hoping for minimum fatality.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
MHG
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:27 am

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 10):

Well, if you select wrong (= an almost? empty) fuel tank during flight and do not recognize your mistake immediately you may get into trouble ...
Especially if your attention is distracted for some reason from a low fuel warning ...

Many, many "if´s" ...

Let´s wait for official conclusions !
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
gkirk
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:51 am

Unfortunately at least 6 people dead  
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
trintocan
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:55 am

The latest report on the BBC states that 3 people have been confirmed dead with 32 taken to hospital. A very sad day for all in Glasgow.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
a380heavy
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:15 pm

Sky News are currently reporting only one confirmed fatality, but this number is expected to rise.

It's easy to jump to conclusions but clearly there has been a sudden and catastrophic failure, so far there has been no mention of a mayday being radioed.

A lot of the police flying tends to be relatively low level hovering whilst the police carry out observation/monitoring duties. This is a twin engine helicopter so if one engine stopped and the other was undamaged the aircraft would remain flyable. If both engines stopped I believe helicopter pilots are trained to do a rapid controlled descent known as an auto rotation - two things that would make this more difficult would be low altitude and possibly lack of forward air speed.

On the images of the crash scene one can see a relatively undamaged rotor which, from my layman's perspective suggests there was little, if any rotary movement so adding two and two my initial thought is a totally catastrophic transmission failure.

My sincere condolences to all those affected by this terrible tragedy.
Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A319,A320,A321,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28,DH-89A
 
sandyb123
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:16 pm

If there was no mayday then it does sound to be fairly instant. If it was fuel starvation then there would have been signs and they may have been able to land somewhere?

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 18):
On the images of the crash scene one can see a relatively undamaged rotor which, from my layman's perspective suggests there was little, if any rotary movement so adding two and two my initial thought is a totally catastrophic transmission failure.

If it does turn out to be transmission related then that does not look good for Eurocopter. The AAIB will be all over this, especially because of related transmission failures in other Eurocopter aircraft (North Sea double ditching etc).

Could see a grounding of the type?

Thoughts to those who have been affected.

Sandyb123
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NAV20
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:44 pm

For what it's worth, radio news on interviews with survivors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25163045

Casualty list is currently 30-plus.

Several people recalled engine noise stuttering/stopping before the crash. Not conclusive at this stage, but it does suggest at least partial engine failure.

My own feeling is that the lack of any evident fire, or engine noise, may turn out to be very significant. On the face of it, it suggests that the aircraft just plain lost power.

Which might have been caused by something as simple as the crew forgetting to refuel?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Guillermo
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:50 pm

Very sad news. RIP for those who perished.
I think that we can't rule out an attack from the ground, among other theories.
Regards.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:24 pm

BBC reporting that there may have been issues with the tail rotor.

Sandyb123
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ScottishDavie
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting Guillermo (Reply 21):
I think that we can't rule out an attack from the ground, among other theories.

Oh please.... An attack with what? An anti-aircraft gun? A SAM? In the middle of Glasgow on a Friday night? I think somebody might have noticed.

I'd bet my house on this having absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. Whatever went wrong did so on board the helicopter.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 19):
If there was no mayday then it does sound to be fairly instant.

Is there VHF communication with ATC if the helicopter is flying low?



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
David_itl
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:22 pm

Latest update: 8 now confirmed dead. 14 very seriously injured.

Looks like all in the helicopter died

[Edited 2013-11-30 08:23:44]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 19):
If there was no mayday then it does sound to be fairly instant.

When things go wrong in a helicopter, they tend to go wrong quickly. It is quite common in the US at least for no mayday for a helicopter crash/ forced landing.

A couple we have seen in the Dallas area were first known because the traffic or TV reporter on the helo was broadcasting live when it went down. The pilots were too busy setting up the autorotation and landing. Both were without any serious injuries, but scary.

Quite a few of the medical helo crashes have been without any mayday call or notification to ATC of a problem.
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:33 pm

The band that was performing at the time of crash is called "Esperanza"...
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 23):
Oh please.... An attack with what? An anti-aircraft gun? A SAM? In the middle of Glasgow on a Friday night? I think somebody might have noticed.

Or a high powered laser beam.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting Guillermo (Reply 21):

Very sad news. RIP for those who perished.
I think that we can't rule out an attack from the ground, among other theories.
Regards.

Yes, we can rule that out. What a ridiculous, and laughably paranoid, suggestion.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:32 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
Or a high powered laser beam.

I hope you're not being serious. As for VHF, there's a listed VHF frequency for GLasgow Heliport but I never heard it used when I was a local. Once airborne they talk to Glasgow Approach on 119.1MHz then transit to Scottish Information or Prestwick depending on routing. Quite frightening they didn't even have time for a controlled ditching in the Clyde rather than into an occupied building.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 26):
A couple we have seen in the Dallas area were first known because the traffic or TV reporter on the helo was broadcasting live when it went down. The pilots were too busy setting up the autorotation and landing. Both were without any serious injuries, but scary.

There used to be a helicopter school at the airport I work on. I have seen them practice autorotation landings many times with a Hughes 300. The thing seems to drop like a stones and when it hits the deck after a successful flare, it slithers for several meters on it´s skids through the grass (they use a partch of grass beside the runway for practice).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
I hope you're not being serious.

I would need to quote Austin Powers to explain any further. So you should be able to guess.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Guillermo
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
Yes, we can rule that out. What a ridiculous, and laughably paranoid, suggestion.

Sir,

1.- You should acknowledge that in this forum the people has the freedom to post their opinions without being considered mad, stupid or paranoid. Is a matter of good education to respect other's opinion.
2.- Eventually, instead of disrespect another poster's opinion, you could share with us your intelligence and knowledge teaching us why you cannot shoot down a presumably not armored chopper flying very low and slow with, say, a .45 gun; not to mention a rifle gun that could not only produce damage to mechanical parts but also serious injuries or even death to the crew members.
3.- I am not talking about terrorism, special weapons, stellar wars or anything. I thought that it would be possible that such kind of action could also happen this time, for whatever reason.
4.- Further, gun shots could be easily considered damaged engine's noise by the occasional observers most probably due to the unexpected and rapidity of the events.
5.- I don't live in Glasgow so I don't know how the life goes there. But I am quite sure that the chopper was not flaring there just to hear some good music from the pub. Most probably they were carrying out some kind of control of the area, be it a routine or occasional patrol mission, I don't know.
6.- Perhaps you can bother yourself taking a look at these links, maybe you could consider them ridiculous as well:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33358527/#.UpqD1tiVtWc
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/...y-after-being-shot-at-in-van-nuys/
http://www.policeone.com/airborne-ma...helicopter-killed-8-pleads-guilty/

Guillermo.
 
Flyingfox27
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:16 am

I heard on the news this morning that the aircraft was not fitted with a FDR, was thinking why was it not, isnt this flying against regulations?
 
Dogbreath
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting Noris (Reply 7):
No Fire, engine spluttering = fuel loss/starvation/empty tanks?
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 10):
Misfiring engine and no fire? Sounds a hell of a lot like fuel starvation

This helicopter is fitted with gas turbine engines. Unlike conventional petrol engines they don't 'splutter' when starved of fuel. They simply run down. No spluttering involved at all. Everytime (that is every single time) a gas turbine engine is shutdown the process is to remove fuel from the combustion section and starve it of fuel.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
NAV20
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 34):
I heard on the news this morning that the aircraft was not fitted with a FDR, was thinking why was it not,

I could well be wrong, Flyingfox27, but my guess is that , not being a 'Transport Category Aircraft,' the chopper wasn't required to carry one?

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 35):
Quoting Noris (Reply 7):No Fire, engine spluttering = fuel loss/starvation/empty tanks?Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 10):Misfiring engine and no fire? Sounds a hell of a lot like fuel starvation

As I said earlier, there's a distinct possibility that the basic cause was fuel shortage? First press story I've seen along those lines here:-

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...opter-crash-police-chopper-2871032
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Dogbreath
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:08 am

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 36):
there's a distinct possibility that the basic cause was fuel shortage

You may be right. I was just pointing out that if it was indeed a lack of fuel to the engines - it wouldn't result in spluttering of the engines (as a conventional petrol engine may exhibit). Eyewitness accounts (and media reports) are know to be reliably unreliable when it comes to aviation accidents.

The AAIB and other experts will determine what caused this accident and rightly so. But as this is a forum - I do agree with an earlier post that suggested it may be a transmission failure. One of the pictures of the accident does appear to show relatively intact rotor blade which suggests to me that at impact it had next to no rotation.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
skipness1E
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:06 am

Quoting Guillermo (Reply 33):
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
Yes, we can rule that out. What a ridiculous, and laughably paranoid, suggestion.

Actually I did not say that at all ! It was the fellow above me :

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 29):
User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined
Quoting Guillermo (Reply 33):
I don't live in Glasgow so I don't know how the life goes there.

I think the key point here is that it would be astonishing if this was the case in Glasgow, the analogy with the gun culture in the US is really not a persuasive one, we don't have a great many guns in the UK, fewer still in Scotland. It would be more likely to be a six pack of Tennents through the rotor blades.

Still at least it wasn't Byres Rd. Too soon?

[Edited 2013-12-01 03:51:04]
 
gkirk
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:10 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 38):
It would be more likely to be a six pack of Tennants through the rotor blades.

Help ma boab!   
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
by738
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:13 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 38):
Still at least it wasn't Byres Rd. Too soon?

Far too soon.
 
Guillermo
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:42 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 39):
Actually I did not say that at all ! It was the fellow above me :

   Sorry!

You are welcome, I do not know how to remedy this. By the way, did you mean "Tennent's" ?   

However, I get your point. Mine was only a suggestion. It would be plausible or not, but in any way plain impossible or just ridiculous as shufflemoomin stated (reply #29).

Have a nice day!

Guillermo.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting Guillermo (Reply 33):
1.- You should acknowledge that in this forum the people has the freedom to post their opinions without being considered mad, stupid or paranoid. Is a matter of good education to respect other's opinion.

I think you'll find that thinking it's a laughable and paranoid suggestion is my opinion too. No need to get arrogant about it because you don't agree with it. I stand by my opinion.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting Guillermo (Reply 41):
You are welcome, I do not know how to remedy this. By the way, did you mean "Tennent's" ?

It is brand of beer popular in that region of the UK. Terrible joke.

Was there a possible failure of the tail rotor ? I know that has often been a cause of similar helicopter accidents. I recall in NYC an NBC/local station channel 4 news copper where a rotor failure led to a wild crash landing on some buildings in Brooklyn that somehow didn't kill the occupants, now was their any on the ground (they were covering a shooting in a nearby neighborhood).

I suspect the chopper was operating to watch for criminal trouble spots in and around pub and club areas in the city.

My condolences to those on the ground and on the helicopter who were killed or injured.
 
b2319
Posts: 152
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:00 pm

I come out of self-imposed 'retirement' to post on the main thread, something which I threatened never to do again.

However, needs must.

There are three persons who untertook their daily duties on Friday 29th November who are now decesaed, together with five persons, possibly normal people, who were struck dead winding down for the weekend, probably in their normal bar.

A few days on, there is major media coverage that normal Glaswegians did the opposite of 'running away', and instead 'ran towards' those in need.

Yet, there are lofty a.net cyber wizzards, with oodles of Respect Ratings, keenly planting smilies into this thread.

You guys are totally disgraceful.


I personally know this boozer, and to make comments about a neighbouring bar area, possibly because of its clientelle, is again, way, below the belt.

If even one person reads this before this post gets pulled, then, I have made my point wisely.

Regards

B-2319
 
skipness1E
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting b2319 (Reply 44):

I personally know this boozer, and to make comments about a neighbouring bar area, possibly because of its clientelle, is again, way, below the belt.

Glasgow is renowned for having a wicked sense of humour, that much was obvious in the ten years I lived and worked there. I know the area quite well, although I can't say it's a pub I would have visited. One thing I did note was the theatrical sombre faces of 21st century professional mourning. Post Diana, the UK has a rather American tendency to go overboard in the grief stakes. Had eight people died in a coach crash we would not be seeing flags at half mast across the country nor politicians at a national level lining up to mourn before cameras.

The real Glasgow will already have a dozen inappropriate and painfully funnny jokes about this doing the rounds already, that's the Scotland I grew up in. Again please be clear I am not attempting to be disrespectful particularly, I am commenting that our famous dark sense of humour is becoming more of an LA type wear your heart on your sleeve and make sure everyone knows about it sort of society. It is a very noticeable and somewhat recent change.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23386
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:44 am

Quoting b2319 (Reply 44):

Lighten up ya      git!

Scotland is renowned for trying to get back to normality asap. We've lived through events such as the Lockerbie bombing and now this. Of course, we are mourning, but the sooner normality returns, then the quicker we can move on whilst allowing the relatives of those who died to grieve peacefully.

I think you may not understand Scottish humour  
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
shufflemoomin
Posts: 409
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RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:36 pm

Hear, hear. I'm proud of our ability as people to face adversity and making light of it is not disrespectful, it's just our way. Other Scottish people understand that.
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Helicopter Crashes Into Pub In Glasgow

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 20):
Several people recalled engine noise stuttering/stopping before the crash

Hmmm, heard many turbines wind down, but never a sputter!

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 23):
An attack with what? An anti-aircraft gun? A SAM? In the middle of Glasgow on a Friday night?
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 29):
Yes, we can rule that out. What a ridiculous, and laughably paranoid, suggestion.

Anyone care to explain why a "ground attack" is ridiculous? It could be anything from a laser blinding the pilot flying, to a projectile shot or thrown from the ground. Unlikely perhaps, but unless you know something the rest of us don't, it still needs to be considered

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 34):
heard on the news this morning that the aircraft was not fitted with a FDR, was thinking why was it not, isnt this flying against regulations?

Most light aircraft do not have FDRs. In fact in my many hours flying helicopters, not one has ever had a FDR.

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