DeltaXNA
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Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:27 am

AA has 10 daily 738's on this route. Is this a huge business route? I've been to SNA and I know it is a populated area being close to LA. I would guess it is an even mix disney, business, tourism that make this airport a cash cow.
 
flyenthu
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:33 am

I have flown DFW -SNA in the past and to SNA many times. I believe SNA acts as LAX domestic overflow. Their short runway and aircraft noise regulations makes for interesting take offs.
 
OOer
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:35 am

I just looked on the AA website and there's 9 flights today, 7 tomorrow (Saturday), and back to 9 on Sunday.

Considering Orange County has over 3 million people and DFW is an AA hub I don't think that's unreasonable.

Not sure what AA's configuration is on their 737-800 is but let's say they have 160 seats in each one and that's 1,440 seats per day.

In comparison WN has 7 flights a day to LAS.

[Edited 2013-11-29 21:36:58]
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:35 am

SNA is dead center in one of the most wealthy parts of Southern California so that plays a part in it. You can find similar frequency on DFW-SAN, another city with a large, higher yielding O&D traveler base.
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MAH4546
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:39 am

Disneyland isn't a fly destination resort, despite Disney's attempts to make it one. It's largely a place for locals, and thr huge majority (70% plus) of people at Disneyland on any given day are locals with annual passes. Disneyland could never exist and SNA would have an excellent traffic mix still.
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LittleFokker
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:40 am

SNA is slot controlled, so if these flights were not profitable, surely AA would have sold/vacated the slots by now. I know the likes of AS/WN would love to get any more slots they could.
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commavia
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:43 am

Two main reasons:

1. It's a large O&D market with lots of corporate connections at both ends

2. Despite it's smaller presence today at SNA vs say, a decade ago, AA maintains a very strong presence in the SNA local market, particularly among premium/business travelers (similar to AUS)
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:44 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4):
Disneyland isn't a fly destination resort, despite Disney's attempts to make it one. It's largely a place for locals, and thr huge majority (70% plus) of people at Disneyland on any given day are locals with annual passes. Disneyland could never exist and SNA would have an excellent traffic mix still.

I agree SNA is in such a populated area and near so many major companies and HQs the airport would have no problem without Disneyland. Disneyland certainly does help fill seats though and be the icing on the cake. Yeah it might be majority So Cal residents on a typical day in Disneyland but theres still lots of people who fly in and its a major destination. Disneyland certainly helps SNA and helped it in earlier times to be the airport it is today.

Travel into SNA and watch the buses leave packed headed to Disney and Anaheim area hotels. Those are lots of people flying into Disneyland and certainly filling seats on the planes. Its not MCO or the numbers you see to Disney world but still a lot of people fly to Disneyland and fill seats to all SNA, LAX, and LGB. Its a major destination and sees a lot of people fly in from mostly the western US.

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
Two main reasons:

1. It's a large O&D market with lots of corporate connections at both ends

2. Despite it's smaller presence today at SNA vs say, a decade ago, AA maintains a very strong presence in the SNA local market, particularly among premium/business travelers (similar to AUS)

AA has a pretty strong presence in the LA market. I think AA flies a lot of people who fly out of SNA when they would need to connect anyway and avoid the drive to LAX. When they fly international or to NYC or something those same people might fight the traffic and parking at LAX. AA maintains a very nice admirals club at SNA so they have some valuable wealthy or frequent corporate customers not surprising looking at the offices nearby SNA.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:15 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 5):
SNA is slot controlled, so if these flights were not profitable, surely AA would have sold/vacated the slots by now.

Post-merger for network optimization, it's quite possible to see DFW-SNA get reduced to maybe 6-7x/day, while seeing an additional 1-2x/day PHX-SNA frequencies (for a total of 8-9x/day), and perhaps a new daily PHL-SNA (if there is an available A319). ORD-SNA would likely remain flat.

[Edited 2013-11-29 23:22:07]
.......
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:53 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 8):

If anything, I could actually see PHX-SNA reduced by one flight a day to add PHL. I think the DFW flights do very well just the way they are.
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kenanc
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:55 am

Was not expecting a thread on this, but anyways, yay!

Having a commuting family between the two cities, I fly this route about 20 times a year. Never once have I not heard "Please make as much room as you can in the overhead bins for other people as this flight is full." Some tourists have so many bags, they use the closets for more space. It is a thriving market, good tourism, business and a great place to connect for locals like me (also O&D for me). I remember once seeing on the flight board "Hartford" and AA right next to it. Not sure if they stopped that service but I swear that I saw that maybe a year ago. (It might be irrelevant, but it would be nice for someone to answer )
 
AM777LR
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:05 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4):
Quoting flyenthu (Reply 1):

As mentioned above, domestic overflow and tourism. I flew DFW-SNA back in July when I liked in Orange County, and that flight was full!

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 1):
Their short runway and aircraft noise regulations makes for interesting take offs.

Oh yes it does! Back in July, I flew SNA-IAH on a UA 757-200 and every seat was filled and it was heavy! (By SNA standards) That was probably the most intense take off ever, the pilot held the brakes, throttled up and boom! Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.
 
chrisair
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:05 am

There's also a very large concentration of AA elite flyers in the Orange County area.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 5):
I know the likes of AS/WN would love to get any more slots they could.

Considering AS has given up several slots in the past 5 years, I doubt they'd ask for more.
 
DeltaXNA
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:30 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

How did they get that agreement? Is it because those people fly AA?
 
asteriskceo
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:53 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

Pardon? Source?
 
klwright69
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:13 pm

Good topic. It's because AA has a huge presence in both Dallas and the LA area. Now the question should be why can only UA make SNA-NYC work?
 
AAplat4life
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 8):
ORD-SNA would likely remain flat.

Perhaps so since there is competition with UA at ORD and SW (MDW). However, all of the ORD-SNA flights I've been on have been packed since AA has decreased frequencies on these flights to 3 a day (2 on weekends) and switched from 757s to 738s. I think that if the new AA wants to be competitive again at ORD, it will need to add at least one more daily flight (among other changes).
 
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:42 pm

SNA is so much more convenient than LAX to socal too. In and out in 20 minutes, rarely ever a line at security. Fiancee's family lives barely 15 min from SNA, whereas the drive from LAX on a good day is at least 45. There's clearly a large, loyal, wealthy following for SNA. SNA-DFW is a near-impossible upgrade (I'm a lowly GLD but still).
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:47 pm

I don't think people realize how large the local market is on this route. DFW is SNA's sixth largest O&D market after SFO/OAK, SMF, SEA, PHX, and DEN. The O&D alone between DFW and SNA is enough to fill between 4-5 737's. Then you have to take into consideration that DFW is a mega hub that can funnel a lot of traffic.

That's why there are so many flights.
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Maverick623
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:17 pm

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

They most certainly do not.
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Web500sjc
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

They may have an agreement to do normal takeoff, but I have heard from a pilot that all takeoffs are full power, no derate.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 5):

SNA is slot controlled, so if these flights were not profitable, surely AA would have sold/vacated the slots by now. I know the likes of AS/WN would love to get any more slots they could.

I believe slots at SNA are not owned by any airline, rather every year they are reallocated by the county, so AA could not sell any slots to other airlines. See the threads about SNA slot reallocation.
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roseflyer
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:41 pm

While Disneyland attracts vacationers, I wouldn't expect as much traffic coming from Dallas as you get from SFO/PDX/SEA/YVR/DEN/SLC and other colder climate west coast destinations.

Anaheim has turned itself into one of the premier conference destinations in the United States. So while Disneyland helps fill in the back of the airplanes, all the business travel to Anaheim helps fill the front with high yields. SNA is far more lucrative than ONT.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 20):

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 5):

SNA is slot controlled, so if these flights were not profitable, surely AA would have sold/vacated the slots by now. I know the likes of AS/WN would love to get any more slots they could.

I believe slots at SNA are not owned by any airline, rather every year they are reallocated by the county, so AA could not sell any slots to other airlines. See the threads about SNA slot reallocation.

That is what I thought. They can't be sold for money, so it may result in airlines sitting on unused slots. If AA was struggling to fill planes to SNA, I would think that it would be the first A319 route. The 737-800 can make it to DFW, but can end up with payload restrictions to ORD. Most airlines prefer to operate the 737-700 or 757-200 to SNA. SNA is one of the reasons why DL ordered their subfleet of 737-700s.
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Boeing717200
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:55 pm

Several reasons....

It's easier to get in and out of than LAX for the pax and most tourists hit spots are actually closer to SNA and to a lesser extent BUR.

Money. Orange County has the money for the yield.

Oil. One of the largest refineries on the west coast is near Seal Beach and while LGB is closer, air carrier access is a joke. It's also why for years Bakersfield had mainline service to DFW where everyone else had hops to LAX.

Range. Depending on fleet type, it's a pain getting out of SNA for certain aircraft types. God bless the 757!

[Edited 2013-11-30 08:56:21]
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zrs70
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:04 pm

SNA is one of the smallest domestic airports with an Admirals Club. (There's a UA club as well).
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point2point
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting DeltaXNA (Thread starter):

AA has 10 daily 738's on this route.

SNA currently has nonstop destinations to only 14 domestic areas, and nonstops to 17 stations - 1) SFO/OAK/SJC, 2) ORD/MDW, 3) IAH/HOU, 4) SEA, 5) PDX, 6) SMF, 7) SLC, 8) DEN, 9) PHX, 10) DFW,11) ATL,12) MSP and 13) EWR

Using today's departure schedule, Saturday after Thanksgiving, 11/30/13, the courtesy of SNA,

http://www.ocair.com/flightinformation/departures/

What nonstops SNA has they do seem to have high frequency of traffic. Bay area, DEN and PHX are about half the daily domestic flights.

And with that, we have the following domestic departures:

SFO - 12, PHX - 10, DEN, - 10, DFW - 7, SEA - 6, OAK - 6, SJC - 6, LAS - 6, SMF - 5, SLC - 5, where these nine stations dominated the traffic with about 80% of the departures. Rounding out the rest of the schedule, we have Houston with IAH - 4 and HOU - 1, ORD - 4 (I guess that we don't have the daily MDW flight on Saturdays?), MSP - 3, ATL - 3, PDX - 2, and EWR - 2.

Not sure of the ex-boarder frequencies with YVR, SJD, GDL and MEX having nonstops with SNA, but I would say there is around 95 total daily departures from SNA.......

 
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:48 pm

I think PHX could be reduced by one flight to make way for PHL. Connections to Europe could make it worth it with a 319. AA is much larger in SNA area then US was so i think it will become more likely post merger.

If anyone were to abandon SNA slots they would be fighting SWA to get them. SWA is very interested in the airport and i think the largest carrier as well.

Why can only United many NYC work? I think its a combination of commitment aka loyalty, frequency, huge connection options to Europe, and just a large demand between New Jersey and Orange County. Both have lots of the same companies and office space in wealthy suburbs. Parts of New Jersey are like a much much colder Irvine. Picture Macarthur Blvd with snow, ice, and more trees.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:56 pm

And to think that AA's presence at SNA all started with 2 Air California Electras way back in 1967!   

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SFOA380
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:10 pm

First time I flew into SNA I don't even think they had baggage claim. There were certainly no jetways. PSA, Air California and Hughes Airwest all had built-in staircases that would unfold out from under the door at arrival. DC-9s also had one at the rear... I miss those days...
 
AAR90
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting KenanC (Reply 10):
I remember once seeing on the flight board "Hartford" and AA right next to it. Not sure if they stopped that service but I swear that I saw that maybe a year ago.

1-stop "thru-flight." A stop in DFW then the plane continues to BDL. The continuation destination changes every few months. Expect BDL will return.... someday.

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

No such "agreement." AA B738s have proven to be so quiet (WAY BELOW the slot noise limits) that AA spent the $$$ to provide engineering studies and proving flights which led to the elimination of the thrust "cut-back" procedure... for AA B738s ONLY. All other AA aircraft are still required to utilize the "cut-back" procedure (when they visit SNA).

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 15):
Now the question should be why can only UA make SNA-NYC work?

AA tried (quite a few years ago) but found it took more revenue away from LAX-JFK flights than it generated. Economics dictated discontinue the SNA-JFK route to "protect" the more lucrative LAX-JFK route.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 20):
They may have an agreement to do normal takeoff, but I have heard from a pilot that all takeoffs are full power, no derate.

AA 738s can utilize either "26K-max" or "27K-Bump" power takeoffs with no "hold-the-brakes" required. A very significant reduction (especially $$$) from the original 27K-Bump w/power cut-back procedure. All because AA spent the time/money to prove their plane really was quieter using the "new" procedure. Other airlines are free to do the same.
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chrisair
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 27):
There were certainly no jetways. PSA, Air California and Hughes Airwest all had built-in staircases that would unfold out from under the door at arrival.

I remember the days of double parked planes and little yellow signs on the stairs that said where the plane was going. Those were the days. It's a great airport now, but it was really fun back then!
 
kennysna
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:18 pm

I have noticed the difference in the AA 738 take off noise from my son's house in Newport Beach (about a mile from the end of the runway at SNA). Good work on the part of AA.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 27):
First time I flew into SNA I don't even think they had baggage claim. There were certainly no jetways. PSA, Air California and Hughes Airwest all had built-in staircases that would unfold out from under the door at arrival. DC-9s also had one at the rear... I miss those days...



Not to turn this into a SNA throwback thread, but they old terminal had the best 2nd floor observation deck!

Back in the very early days, there were just 4 gates, with Air California 737s to SFO/OAK/SJC, AIr West DC-9s to LAS/PHX, and Golden West Twin Otters all the way up to LAX....like 15 times a day! Great memories.

Tom in SJC
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jmc1975
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 8):
Post-merger for network optimization, it's quite possible to see DFW-SNA get reduced to maybe 6-7x/day, while seeing an additional 1-2x/day PHX-SNA frequencies (for a total of 8-9x/day), and perhaps a new daily PHL-SNA (if there is an available A319). ORD-SNA would likely remain flat.
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 9):

If anything, I could actually see PHX-SNA reduced by one flight a day to add PHL. I think the DFW flights do very well just the way they are.
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 25):
I think PHX could be reduced by one flight to make way for PHL. Connections to Europe could make it worth it with a 319. AA is much larger in SNA area then US was so i think it will become more likely post merger.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
The O&D alone between DFW and SNA is enough to fill between 4-5 737's. Then you have to take into consideration that DFW is a mega hub that can funnel a lot of traffic.

It's important to remember a major reason airlines merge is to maintain or expand revenue while reducing costs. The most practical reduction in costs come in the form or reduction in ASMs when optimizing route networks. Giving up a PHX-SNA frequency for a PHL-SNA significantly increases ASMs, while adding marginal network expansion. Many of the current DFW connections from SNA to the Midwest through can actually be more effectively and efficiently routed through PHX. Also don't forget the huge FF base that AA has in SNA, so expect to see a relatively significant chunk of the SNA-PHX O&D traffic be shifted from WN to US/AA over time. Assuming the same aircraft size, a DFW-SNA frequency has 257% more ASMs than a PHX-SNA frequency.
.......
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:37 pm

Both AA and US (along with most legacies) have continued to shrink at SNA mostly to the benefit of Southwest which continues to grow its slot portfolio

For the planned 2014 slot holdings see my thread from earlier in the year.
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As far as type of passenger and demographics compared to LAX as an example, the average SNA travelers household income in 2011 was $110,866 versus $94,301 at LAX. Though LAX had a much higher component of business travelers compared to SNA, which had heavier leisure/VFR component being a hometown community airport used by local residents.
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SGAir
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:49 pm

As a side AA SNA story, there was a period in the 90's when AA didn't have a parking space for an overnight 757 from ORD. So they sent it to BFL for the night. With only a handful of passengers and little baggage and fuel, the takeoff's were fast and steep.

The FA's would tell everyone onboard they could move up to first if they wanted too. Did a couple of trips to/from Chicago that way instead of going through DFW.
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:24 pm

OC is very conservative politically. Texas is the promised land for pro-business conservatives who get all bent out of shape over California's liberal and pro-tax politics. Hence, I suspect that there is a lot of travel for business and personal reasons between OC and DFW, visiting branch offices, headquarters, and family who have moved. I also get the sense from speaking with family who still live in OC that AA offers more convenient connections east and to Europe. Last, this may be a remnant of AA's purchase of AirCal in the late 80's.
 
AM777LR
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 13):
Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 14):
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 19):

Let me re-phrase that, sorry. I have heard from unofficial sources that the flights don't take off as strep as lets say United or Delta flights. As mentioned above, the takeoffs aren't derated, they just climb at a normal rate of ascent.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:05 pm

In the end, SNA has a very affluent population that supports a lot of flights out of the airport. And the racial and ethnic backgrounds of these affluent passengers are varied: white, Hispanic, Chinese and Vietnamese especially.
 
snasteve
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 35):
OC is very conservative politically.

They have that reputation, but see how NIMBY OC Republicans are with restrictions on SNA how they moved heaven and earth to stop the El Toro Airport.

I think they’re Conservative only in in the California sense. Total liberals (RINOs) by Texas standards (lol).
I live in Huntington Beach, we just banned the plastic bag. 

[Edited 2013-11-30 18:26:31]
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting SGAir (Reply 34):
As a side AA SNA story, there was a period in the 90's when AA didn't have a parking space for an overnight 757 from ORD. So they sent it to BFL for the night. With only a handful of passengers and little baggage and fuel, the takeoff's were fast and steep.

AA also sent a 757 from SNA-PSP each night during the summer of 1994 (maybe 1995) for these same reasons.

Ryan
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 11):
I flew SNA-IAH on a UA 757-200 and every seat was filled and it was heavy! (By SNA standards) That was probably the most intense take off ever, the pilot held the brakes, throttled up and boom! Sadly, AA has an agreement with local residents so all AA flights take off normally from SNA.

Our AC YYZ-YYJ flight did one Wednesday night as snow was beginning to cover the runway.

However, what does a standing run-up have to do with noise abatement?

It doesn't change the decibel count at rotation / takeoff.
 
phllax
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:24 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 36):
Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 13):Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 14):Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 19):Let me re-phrase that, sorry. I have heard from unofficial sources that the flights don't take off as strep as lets say United or Delta flights. As mentioned above, the takeoffs aren't derated, they just climb at a normal rate of ascent.

Any 737-800 taking off from SNA, be it one operated by DL, AA, UA or AS does not have to do the traditional noise abatement thrust-back procedure. They still need to turn do a slight turn left to 175 degrees and go down the middle of Upper Newport Bay like all departures from 19R should be doing.
 
laca773
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:19 am

How often does AA upgauge or sub a 757 in for a 738 these days? I know it's definitely less frequently, but does it still occur?

What are the chances we'll see AA-US add a SNA-PHL transcon? I think it would be a good thing, especially a morning departure to connect with their transatlantic bank. A A319 will definitely fly this route if it gets a green light.
 
point2point
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:50 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
What are the chances we'll see AA-US add a SNA-PHL transcon?

PHL-SNA pax traffic is about 164 daily total between the two, so this would put 82 O&D tushes into 1 leg of this route. For a comparison sake, EWR-SNA traffic is 489 as the previous, and this puts 122 tushes into each of the 4 legs legs of the two daily nonstops here. With an assumed SNA-PHL nonstop, if at least half of the plane can be filled with O&D (and the more O&D the better) it would be a good nonstop for the new AA to begin......

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
especially a morning departure to connect with their transatlantic bank. A A319 will definitely fly this route if it gets a green light.

..... and a morning A319 would be what the airline route planner ordered.........

 
 
TWA85
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:32 pm

What is the possiblity that the new AA might start SNA-JFK?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:35 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 44):
What is the possiblity that the new AA might start SNA-JFK?

Almost none. They would have started it by now if they were going to.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:51 pm

I have relatives that are ten minutes from SNA (and won't drive to LAX). To get there from my hometown airport FWA, there are five options:

-AA or UA through ORD. While relatively direct, this has the most delays and longest walks (Gate F14 to Gate C22, anyone?) by far.
-AA through DFW. This is the most direct route, and the schedules work very well between the 2 FWA-DFW and the 10 DFW-SNA flights. Walks are long, but you can use Skylink to cut your connection time significantly.
-DL through MSP. A slight northern detour, moreso than ORD, but no ORD congestion problems. The terminal is easy to get around. If I fly DL, I'll take MSP over ATL any day.
-DL through ATL. The longest route of all four and you have to backtrack the most, so I try to avoid going through ATL.

Even if the long-rumored FWA-DEN starts, I would still choose DFW for my connecting hub to get to SNA.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
747megatop
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:27 pm

It's about time that SNA gets non stops to BOS and JFK. Wonder why no airline wants to start these routes.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:59 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 47):
It's about time that SNA gets non stops to BOS and JFK. Wonder why no airline wants to start these routes.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 45):
Almost none. They would have started it by now if they were going to.

DL tried SNA-JFK with a 737-700 for some time in the summer/fall 2010. That did not last long. After that nobody has tried to fly to JFK.
 
phlwok
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RE: Why So Much Frequency On DFW-SNA?

Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:03 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
What are the chances we'll see AA-US add a SNA-PHL transcon? I think it would be a good thing, especially a morning departure to connect with their transatlantic bank. A A319 will definitely fly this route if it gets a green light.

US used to fly a once-daily PHL-SNA A319 round trip, I think around the time of the HP merger. It was transferred from PIT-SNA as the PIT hub was being pulled down. It didn't last long and I believe they just gave up the slots; I took it just once and was one of maybe 20 on the aircraft on a midweek evening. Today's environment is of course different from then - PHL has a lot more transatlantic service, US has a much bigger West Coast network with the PHX hub and of course you have the AA merger now. That said, while a PHL flight for international connections might be plausible again, CLT would be a better option if more of that traffic wants to connect around the East Coast.

It's always been interesting to me that SNA fares, at least originating out of PHL with connections somewhere along the way, are routinely much, much less than LAX or SAN. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with the wealth and population density noted in this thread unless someone like WN pretty much owns pricing power there.

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