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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 23):
with the advent of the 575 tonner - i.e now
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 32):
Wasn't BA's first A380 the first assembled with the improved wing chamber?

Yes, the increased wing twist was introduced with MSN95, BA's first A380. The tweak also comes on all A380s assembled after MSN95, not just the 575t models (there is no point of making different wings). In case of EK, the improved wing was introduced with MSN113.
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zeke
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:05 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 42):
True, but doesn't weather, temperature, flight et al affect payload as well?

Qauds are more immune to this, A380s are never weight limited out of DXB due temp, they would need temps in excess of around 55 deg C to start getting limited, highest ever recorded temp is below 50 deg C. 12R/30L the normal departure runway out of DXB is around 4700m long essentially at sea level.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 49):
Re the route, it is a polar route of 7246nm shortest way, if that takes 16h20m we are talking about on average groundspeed of 445kts ie some 40kts headwind on average given they fly design M of 0.85 . Should they fly M 0.83 we are talking 10kts less average wind. Does all this sound reasonable?

It is actually doing the flight in 15.5 hrs.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 51):
Qauds are more immune to this, A380s are never weight limited out of DXB due temp, they would need temps in excess of around 55 deg C to start getting limited, highest ever recorded temp is below 50 deg C. 12R/30L the normal departure runway out of DXB is around 4700m long essentially at sea level.

Zeke... run me through the takeoff charts such as Boeing show in their ACAP sheets if you would please. I understand that a standard day is 15C then there are charts for various temperatures over the standard day. So a chart for a standard day plus 20C would be used for a 35C day. Is this right?
Piano X allows you to enter a value . They use a descriptor of "Temp Deviation ISA +- deg. C." I assume the base is 15C and if you want a 40C day you input 25. The max you can input is +30. Does this make sense?

Thanks.........
 
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zeke
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:59 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 52):

The charts are an for an ideal day pressure height, if you need to look at what it will do when it is hotter, just convert the conditions into density height (pressure height corrected for temperature), and enter the standard chart using that density height.

For DXB, 62 ft elevation, QNH 1015, Temp 50 deg C, absolute pressure would be 1013 and density height around 4000'.

ISA deviation is what you are talking about, 0deg C at sea level would be ISA-15, 15 deg would be ISA, and 30 deg would be ISA+15 (at sea level). You should see the 77W hitting the tire speed limit at 4000' before it hits the runway length limit (around 340t chart 3.3.9). Same chart for the A380 should show a MTOW of around 575t (chart 03-03-01).
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:08 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 51):
It is actually doing the flight in 15.5 hrs.

Some reports say 16h20m but I believe that's with taxi time included.
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zeke
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 54):

That is blocks off/blocks on, what the EK website would show in their flight status page. It is not flight time.
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1400mph
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:36 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 54):
Some reports say 16h20m but I believe that's with taxi time included.

DXB isn't very well placed for the United States is it. These are mammoth costly sectors.
 
ferpe
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:30 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 55):
That is blocks off/blocks on, what the EK website would show in their flight status page. It is not flight time.

Thanks, so adding 25min each end is a reasonable rule of thumb for converting blocks to flight time?
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:32 pm

Or we use the time visible on Flightaware, which was 15h42m.

http://nl.flightaware.com/live/fligh...5/history/20131202/0420Z/OMDB/KLAX
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:14 pm

Congrats to EK and LAX.    I know more than a few people who were upset EK cut seats to LAX when they went to 1 flight per day.

Serious question: Does this lower the CASM enough to go to two A380s per day?   

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 32):
Wasn't BA's first A380 the first assembled with the improved wing chamber?

Now I'm very curious

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 56):
DXB isn't very well placed for the United States is it. These are mammoth costly sectors.

But not so bad with an A380. EK is able to make a profit off connections with these flights. Even a small further fuel burn improvement would improve payload and thus revenue.

For the US West coast to the region (including Pakistan/India), the flights are very convenient. I know over a half dozen people flying to India this holiday season on EK. For some reason most of the rest are AF this Year (its usually LH or *A to FRA then LH, but not this year). I guess among my friends DL picked up enough new Skyteam members... Or my prior employer has bought so many J tickets LAX-FRA, there just weren't economical seats! (They have a project putting numbers on that flight.)


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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting qantas744er (Reply 15):
Straight from a EK A380 pilot "From -EEF on we are seeing about 600 to 700kg/hr saving in burn, depending on sector length. The latest ones are outdoing that by about another 150kg/hr. DOWs have also reduced by about 2 to 3t from the original ones"

I have been doing some more work in Piano-X on this. On the assumption that the biggest savings will be on the longer sector lengths I have compared the 569t and the 575t at 16-hrs with a 409- passenger payload. Piano-X uses a OEW value of the 569t EK version of 299t. I have conferred with others who believe this is a DOW value. Piano X gives a fuel burn of just on 208t Same payload 575t version 293t DOW fuel burn improvement of 2.5% and a drag reduction of ~1% gives a fuel burn right on 196t or a savings ~ 750kg/hr. So it is not difficult to get verification of what the pilots are saying.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:26 pm

We are one week further, so far all flights have been operated by A6-EEM and A6-EEO.

http://s27.postimg.org/duu0pk5ar/Screenshot_from_2013_12_09_21_20_08.png

Emirates third 575t A380 (A6-EEL) is currently serving other routes.

Also, the flight of 7 December took only 14h45m:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...5/history/20131207/0420Z/OMDB/KLAX

[Edited 2013-12-09 12:28:03]
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
Also, the flight of 7 December took only 14h45m:

Did you also note from the solid track that they apparently flew it eastbound.
 
airxliban
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:55 am

Flew this flight last Thursday on EEM - made it in 14 hours 57 minutes! Fantastic flight although not very full. I was in F and there were only 4 other seats taken. A stroll through J and Y also indicated a pretty low load factor. According to the crew, the return flight was supposed to be pretty full.
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 63):
I was in F and there were only 4 other seats taken. A stroll through J and Y also indicated a pretty low load factor. According to the crew, the return flight was supposed to be pretty full.

Interesting. 5 in F isn't too much of surprise. But the other classes being at a low load factor are. I wonder if it was an off day or ???

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etoile
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 56):
DXB isn't very well placed for the United States is it. These are mammoth costly sectors.

The attempt to displace some of DXB with BGW didn't work out as planned.
 
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:39 am

I never find EK is cheapest to the ME or subcontinent. maybe they undercut the Europen legacies ex Europe, but from the States they charge a pretty penny. I never have flown them. Last time to India it was so much cheaper to go EY out of JFK and then add a cheap VX flight LA to NY. Like a lot cheaper. I can usually beat EK to India going the other way via an Asian hub. I kinda shrug my shoulders and really dont get EK.

[Edited 2013-12-09 21:47:15]
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airxliban
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 64):
Interesting. 5 in F isn't too much of surprise. But the other classes being at a low load factor are. I wonder if it was an off day or ???

Could have been an off day. Thursday is not a big travel day out of DXB, although I was probably one of the few DXB originating passengers! The crew said that the return flight was supposedly full (not sure if it was the same aircraft back that afternoon, or the flight that they operate back after a layover).

Having done DXB-LAX in all three classes on 77L/77W/388 between the former 3:00am flight and the 8:00am I have to say the I'm glad to have the A380 on the route, at least as far as F & J are concerned. It was a pretty superb flight, made even better by the 1 hour early arrival and entry into the new terminal at Bradley. I'll probably be writing a trip report about it.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 62):
Did you also note from the solid track that they apparently flew it eastbound.

Yes I did  
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
Emirates third 575t A380 (A6-EEL) is currently serving other routes.

A6-EEL flew the LAX service for the first time on December 11. The aircraft also operated DXB-LAX on December 14, 16 and 18 (today), all three 575t A380s are now being rotated on this route.

Also, the flight of December 12 was operated by A6-EDO, an 569t A380. No idea why but Flightaware shows a departure from LHR instead of DXB.

[Edited 2013-12-18 12:33:44]
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ojas
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 69):
Also, the flight of December 12 was operated by A6-EDO, an 569t A380. No idea why but Flightaware shows a departure from LHR instead of DXB.

There was a flight diversion to LHR from LAX to DXB.
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flyenthu
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:54 am

Anyone knows why the diversion? Thx.

Quoting ojas (Reply 70):

There was a flight diversion to LHR from LAX to DXB.
 
TC957
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:57 am

That's odd - normal flight routings are way way north of the UK so it sounds like a deliberate decision to route that day via LHR for a splash and dash with a lower MTOW aircraft.
 
StTim
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:33 am

There must be cheaper places to put down for a splash and dash than LHR. A little odd.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:40 am

Quoting StTim (Reply 73):

There must be cheaper places to put down for a splash and dash than LHR. A little odd.


Why they have fuel and handling accounts and could have slipped crews if delayed timed/out.

Alternatives would have been Manchester or Amsterdam.

Emirates also have nominated I think its Bodo in Norway as an emergency divert point.
 
StTim
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:43 am

The landing fees at Heathrow are some of the highest there are. Also it is slot constrained so putting in an extra appearance probably carries an additional cost. They will aslo have fuel and handling contracts at Amsterdam and Manchester and I bet the landing fees are considerably less. Also both of those venues are likely to have less ATC delays for both landing and take off slots.
 
Rishul93
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:20 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 51):
Qauds are more immune to this, A380s are never weight limited out of DXB due temp, they would need temps in excess of around 55 deg C to start getting limited, highest ever recorded temp is below 50 deg C. 12R/30L the normal departure runway out of DXB is around 4700m long essentially at sea level.

Very interesting, this, thanks.

As far as I know, A6-EEL/EEM/EEO, the 3 575T 380s have the GP7270 engines not the GP7272s, with the additional thrust bump, so what you've stated holds good for these particular 575T 380s too in the DXB Summers, or, will EK be taking more 380s with GP7272s, which is be used to operate LAX in the summers?
 
rutankrd
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:30 am

Quoting StTim (Reply 75):
The landing fees at Heathrow are some of the highest there are. Also it is slot constrained so putting in an extra appearance probably carries an additional cost

Nop the rates are published and the public domain (excluding carrier discounts)
Heathrow is actually far from the most expensive.

Heathrow may be slot constrained however there are around 6 to 8 available in any given day.

This was probably a planned re-routing several days in advance .

As for Manchester it has other problems.
Manchester can only handle two 388s at a time and operates a negative policy towards diversions due to apron space fuel availability and some are due to undermanned handling agents (Some of their minions are known to turn extra work away !)
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 76):
As far as I know, A6-EEL/EEM/EEO, the 3 575T 380s have the GP7270 engines not the GP7272s

can you tell me what is the max thrust of both?

Quoting TC957 (Reply 72):
it sounds like a deliberate decision to route that day via LHR for a splash and dash with a lower MTOW aircraft.

This makes sense in my view.
 
Rishul93
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 78):
can you tell me what is the max thrust of both?

GP 7270 / T970 - 70000 lbs
GP 7272 / T972 - 72000 lbs

Qantas has the Trent 972s for their 380s.
 
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zeke
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:12 pm

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 76):
As far as I know, A6-EEL/EEM/EEO, the 3 575T 380s have the GP7270 engines not the GP7272s, with the additional thrust bump, so what you've stated holds good for these particular 575T 380s too in the DXB Summers, or, will EK be taking more 380s with GP7272s, which is be used to operate LAX in the summers?

They are all GP7270s, 74.7 klb, not the GP7277.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 78):
can you tell me what is the max thrust of both?

GP7270 74.7 klb
GP7277 80.2 klb
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Rishul93
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:29 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 80):
They are all GP7270s, 74.7 klb, not the GP7277.


GP7270 74.7 klb
GP7277 80.2 kl

Thanks a lot for that, so the 7270 covers all bases.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:55 pm

There are three EA engines:

GP7270 = A380-861 74.7 klb
GP7272 = A380-862 76.7 klb
GP7277 = A380-863F 80.2 klb

As one can see, GP7277 was the proposed EA engine for the A380 freighter. The GP7272 became on offer at the same time with the 575t A380s but has not been selected so far.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...gher-weight-a380-from-2013-368483/
http://www.jet-age.net/2012/02/airbu...-to-boost-mtow-of-a380-to-575.html
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boysteve
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 74):
Emirates also have nominated I think its Bodo in Norway as an emergency divert point.

Is this new? I just ask because in one day in Summer 2012 either the DXB-JFK or DXB-YYZ (please forgive me I cannot remember from memory but I did post it on here at the time) service was over Norway when it diverted to MAN.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 80):
They are all GP7270s, 74.7 klb, not the GP7277

What was the thrust at EIS for EK,s A380's ? 70K or 72K or neither......?
 
Qantas744er
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RE: Emirates A380 Service To LAX

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 84):
What was the thrust at EIS for EK,s A380's ? 70K or 72K or neither......?

Every A380 in the EK fleet was delivered with GP7270s and they continue to be.
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