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KarelXWB
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Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:05 pm

It's not a secret that Boeing, Airbus and Bombardier are in the race to win a large narrow-body order from Air Canada. According sources close to the negotiations, Air Canada is expected to seek board approval for an A320neo order on 11 December. The order includes an undisclosed number of A320neo and A321neo aircraft and these are understood to be replacements for the carrier’s existing A320 and A321 fleets.

Story:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...a-poised-for-a320neo-order-393701/
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GCT64
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Not long ago that we went through this:
Air Canada Narrow Body Fleet Choices (by LAXintl Jun 20 2013 in Civil Aviation)
Every possible opinion / option was aired and advocated in that thread  

The FlightGlobal article implies the A320 replacement order is close to being announced although it seems less certain that the E190 replacement order is imminent. Will we see an order for 60NEO (+ something else (later?)) or 90NEO?
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Dash9
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:32 pm

interesting, they mention the A320 and A321 but not the A319. The A319 are older than the A321 so one would expect that they get replaced before the A321 or at roughly the same time. That leaves room for a potential CS100 to replace E190 and CS300 to replace A319

That would be a great shot in the arm for the Cseries program.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 2):
interesting, they mention the A320 and A321 but not the A319. The A319 are older than the A321 so one would expect that they get replaced before the A321 or at roughly the same time.

AC may have come to the conclusion that the trip costs of the A319neo and A320neo are close enough that operating the larger plane makes more economic sense (greater potential revenue per flight).
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Quoting Dash9 (Reply 2):
interesting, they mention the A320 and A321 but not the A319. The A319 are older than the A321 so one would expect that they get replaced before the A321 or at roughly the same time.

AC may have come to the conclusion that the trip costs of the A319neo and A320neo are close enough that operating the larger plane makes more economic sense (greater potential revenue per flight).

Agree. A320neos could well replace both the A319s and A320s. If Wikipedia is correct, current A319neo orders stand at only 45, compared to 1,885 A320neos and 522 A329neos. Also have to consider resale value. Today's A319 is comparable to yesterday's 737-600 or A318 as demand is strongly skewed towards the larger models of all types, from turboprops to widebodies.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
replacements for the carrier’s existing A320

Are some these the original "Airbus Affair" A320s ordered back in 1988?
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ytz
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

Story:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...3701/

This runs counter to a particular member's insights that Boeing was the front runner.

And I'm kinda surprised that AC is considering replacing the E190s given its youthful age. Though long rumoured, if this is true (IMHO), this would imply a split order no? What's the point of picking up inefficient A319s?

I could see a lot of utililty in the CS100 as a E190 replacement and the CS300 as an AC Rouge lifter, with AC mainline sticking to 320s and 321s.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 6):
And I'm kinda surprised that AC is considering replacing the E190s given its youthful age. Though long rumoured, if this is true (IMHO), this would imply a split order no? What's the point of picking up inefficient A319s?

Agreed. The article claims the NEO order is for A320 fleet replacements only. I assume the A319s will be replaced by A320s; E190s can be replaced by either CSeries or E190-E2 aircraft.
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aircanadaa330
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:13 pm

This is an order I have been waiting for. I wonder if AC will be increasing their A321 fleet, or if they will stay with 10.

As mentioned above I too am surprised the A319 wasnt mentioned, but it does leave the door open to the C-Series.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
E190s can be replaced by either CSeries or E190-E2 aircraft.

I wasnt aware AC was looking to replace the E190s. I know they dumped the E175, but are they really planning to replace the E190 so soon?
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting AircanadaA330 (Reply 8):
I wasnt aware AC was looking to replace the E190s. I know they dumped the E175, but are they really planning to replace the E190 so soon?

Perhaps not soon, but Air Canada has said the narrowbody order would include replacements of its existing A320 and E190 fleets, and has confirmed discussions with Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer. So basically we are looking at Boeing vs Airbus and Bombardier vs Embraer.
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GCT64
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
So basically we are looking at Boeing vs Airbus and Bombardier vs Embraer.

The article does say that AC has considered replacing the narrowbody fleet with a single type (in fact the CEO is quoted saying that they have looked at that option) - but the most probable outcome does seem to be that they will buy something from Bombardier or Embraer - will the A320 really be the smallest mainline aircraft? Doesn't seem likely.
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Stitch
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:42 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 6):
This runs counter to a particular member's insights that Boeing was the front runner.

Considering AC's current Airbus narrowbody fleet, I'd have been surprised if they had chosen the MAX over the neo.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 5):
Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
replacements for the carrier’s existing A320

Are some these the original "Airbus Affair" A320s ordered back in 1988?

Fleet lists show the oldest AC A320 is C-FDQQ, delivered January 1990, so probably ordered around 1988.


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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 6):
This runs counter to a particular member's insights that Boeing was the front runner.

Has Boeing managed to get any A320 operator to switch to 737s?
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 2):
interesting, they mention the A320 and A321 but not the A319. The A319 are older than the A321 so one would expect that they get replaced before the A321 or at roughly the same time.

Doesn't AC use the A319 because of its range? If so, the A320NEO should give them the range they need, plus more seats.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:59 pm

Having flown many times on Air Canada E-Jets there are a few issues that at least the customers notice:
1. The overhead bins are TINY, and with the increase of the carry on baggage because of checked bag fees on almost every E-Jet flight they have to gate check some peoples bags.
2. Some of my AC E-Jet flights have been on winter mornings where they announce that the toilets have frozen, they don't seem to fair well being left out overnight in the winter and Canadian winters aren't going anywhere.

Overall I think the E-Jets are starting to get a little costly for AC to operate hence the sale of the E175 fleet to Sky Regional to operate under contract as Air Canada Express. Therefore the E190 may be the next target for Air Canada's cost reduction crusade.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Has Boeing managed to get any A320 operator to switch to 737s?

I can think of only one...Silk Air.
 
ytz
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
Doesn't AC use the A319 because of its range? If so, the A320NEO should give them the range they need, plus more seats.

Capacity I believe. I don't think they have too many routes at the edge of the envelope. Though, a 320NEO would certainly improve the range/payload to 319 capability.

I do get the upgauge though. Since AC first ordered the Airbus narrowbodies, the country's population has increased by nearly 50%. The population of its major hub (YYZ) and environs (catchment area) has at least doubled.

Quoting wpigott (Reply 15):
1. The overhead bins are TINY, and with the increase of the carry on baggage because of checked bag fees on almost every E-Jet flight they have to gate check some peoples bags.

The CSeries would definitely not have this problem.

Quoting wpigott (Reply 15):
2. Some of my AC E-Jet flights have been on winter mornings where they announce that the toilets have frozen, they don't seem to fair well being left out overnight in the winter and Canadian winters aren't going anywhere.

Again, one would hope that an aircraft built by a Canadian company would not have this issue. But you never know....

Quoting wpigott (Reply 15):
Overall I think the E-Jets are starting to get a little costly for AC to operate hence the sale of the E175 fleet to Sky Regional to operate under contract as Air Canada Express.

I thik it's more that 75 seaters are getting expensive for mainline ops.

Quoting wpigott (Reply 15):
Therefore the E190 may be the next target for Air Canada's cost reduction crusade.

You may well be right. I'd be curious to see how they pull this off. Imagine putting a 100-seater bird in regional. I can't imagine that the unions will be pleased with that idea.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
AC may have come to the conclusion that the trip costs of the A319neo and A320neo are close enough that operating the larger plane makes more economic sense (greater potential revenue per flight).

Indeed, if one looks at the percentage of sales for the smallest members of the neo and MAX families, the picture is quite shocking - A319neo has just 45 firm orders (less than 1.8% of all neo sales) and the 7MAX has 55 (less than 3.4% of all MAX sales). 100 combined out of a grand total of over 4,000!

If the A350-800 is "dead" because of low sales, then it looks like the A319neo and 737-7 might join it!
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sixtyseven
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:11 am

Interesting news....

As for the e-190. They'll try and move them to Sky Regional. Dollars to Dog Nuts .
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting Kengo (Reply 16):

I can think of only one...Silk Air.

Ah! Very clever! Now, I wonder how many 737-NG operators (not 737-classic) Airbus will convert to A320NEO. So far AA is the only one that comes to mind (and that is no small victory for A).
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opethfan
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 am

The CSeries has to be in the running for the smaller jets. I don't see a circumstance in which AC would have delayed so much otherwise. The existing A/C are aging and delivery slots are getting fewer and farther between for both the MAX and neo.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:39 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Ah! Very clever! Now, I wonder how many 737-NG operators (not 737-classic) Airbus will convert to A320NEO. So far AA is the only one that comes to mind (and that is no small victory for A).

Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting col (Reply 22):

Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?

Quite a list. Seems as if it is the more attractive option for a lot of carriers, then.
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lightsaber
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:13 am

I'm hearing zero on this. That implies a GE engine.   

I had hopes on the C-series, but I think my rumor mill would have 'woken up' by now.  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
A319neo has just 45 firm orders (less than 1.8% of all neo sales) and the 7MAX has 55 (less than 3.4% of all MAX sales). 100 combined out of a grand total of over 4,000!

If the A350-800 is "dead" because of low sales, then it looks like the A319neo and 737-7 might join it!

I do not see any bank being willing to underwrite the A319NEO and -7MAX leases unless the terms are good with a credit worthy borrower.

It will be -8s, -9s, A320NEOs and A321NEOs.

FWIW, I expect WN to upgauge to the -8MAX with their -7 orders.


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Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:15 am

Quoting col (Reply 22):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Ah! Very clever! Now, I wonder how many 737-NG operators (not 737-classic) Airbus will convert to A320NEO. So far AA is the only one that comes to mind (and that is no small victory for A).

Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?

For some carriers, it's not because they want to switch manufacturers but because they can't obtain early enough deliveries in the required quantities from one manufacturer only.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:18 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
Quite a list. Seems as if it is the more attractive option for a lot of carriers, then.

A number of those also ordered the MAX, so I'd say it's more a case of earlier availability of the A320neo driving the initial replacement tranche, with availability of the 737 MAX driving the follow-on replacement tranche.

I doubt Boeing is ramping MAX production to near 50 units a month on a whim. I expect they have a number of large orders in the works.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting col (Reply 22):
Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?

QF did NOT "convert" to A320, they ordered them for a different part of the business (JQ). I believe from sources that the decision between the A320 & B737NG was line ball, so they went with the A320 to differentiate JQ from QF.

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zeke
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:09 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Air Canada is expected to seek board approval for an A320neo order on 11 December. The order includes an undisclosed number of A320neo and A321neo aircraft and these are understood to be replacements for the carrier’s existing A320 and A321 fleets.

I was really expecting a C series order from them. Maybe they know something more about the slow testing.

Quoting Kengo (Reply 16):
I can think of only one...Silk Air.

United, South African ?

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):
I believe from sources that the decision between the A320 & B737NG was line ball, so they went with the A320 to differentiate JQ from QF.

Probably true when the decision was made, on the longer sectors I understand the new A320s are performing better (with sharklets).
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YVRLTN
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:10 am

This order was a given IMO

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 2):
but not the A319

They are going to Rouge. A bunch more just transferred over in the past couple of weeks.

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 2):
That leaves room for a potential CS100 to replace E190 and CS300 to replace A319

I never thought there would be a C Series order from AC in the near future due to the newness of the E190 and AC's history of keeping onto their fleet for the most part. However, if the EJets are going then the C Series could indeed be a real contender as the combined 190/319 fleet is not small and I dont see it all upgauging to 320.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 6):
And I'm kinda surprised that AC is considering replacing the E190s given its youthful age

Me too. Will be very interesting to see what happens. Other than initial reliability issues and the overhead bin and lav issues mentioned in this thread, I thought overall AC were very happy with the 190 and it is a great aircraft for them offering a lot of flexibility.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
Doesn't AC use the A319 because of its range? If so, the A320NEO should give them the range they need, plus more seats.

They do, but there are only a handful of birds for the transoceanic flights. These flights could probably go to 767 as a tag with other origins / destinations if AC really wants to keep them. I wonder if the 320neo gives them enough extra for Latin America to not need the 319 subtype? Particularly if replaced domestically and regionally by the C Series.
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BOS2LAF
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 29):
Me too. Will be very interesting to see what happens. Other than initial reliability issues and the overhead bin and lav issues mentioned in this thread, I thought overall AC were very happy with the 190 and it is a great aircraft for them offering a lot of flexibility.

They sure didn't let their E190 options lapse because they love it so much.
 
n7371f
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:59 am

Could very well be another check mark for the 737-900ER and it's inferiority to the 321. The headwinds in the winter in Canada are worse than down in the US and while right now the 739 performs better than the current 321, all indications are the 739ER is pretty poorly outperformed by the 321.

And maybe another example why the story leaked about a year ago that Boeing was looking at a 757 replacement.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:57 am

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 30):
They sure didn't let their E190 options lapse because they love it so much

Im pretty sure they'll love the c-series even more. I feel like c-series will be able to do everything the 190 can just 10x better.most important your pax will be wayy more comfortable.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
A number of those also ordered the MAX

Which of those ordered both?
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:20 am

Quoting AircanadaA330 (Reply 8):
I wonder if AC will be increasing their A321 fleet, or if they will stay with 10.

Given their consistently high load factors, it's likely that many 320 routes can be upgraded to 321. Also, the 321neo could be used as a 763 replacement to "near" EU markets such as DUB, MAN et al.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 17):
Since AC first ordered the Airbus narrowbodies, the country's population has increased by nearly 50%. The population of its major hub (YYZ) and environs (catchment area) has at least doubled.

Not even close. Canada's population increased by about 23% since 1988. Source http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/98-187-x/4151287-eng.htm

Anyway, population growth has zero impact on any fleet composition in any airline in any country. The co-relation is absolutely zero.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
if one looks at the percentage of sales for the smallest members of the neo and MAX families, the picture is quite shocking - A319neo has just 45 firm orders (less than 1.8% of all neo sales) and the 7MAX has 55 (less than 3.4% of all MAX sales). 100 combined out of a grand total of over 4,000!

Keep in mind that the 319neo and 737-7 will be the last to fly and be certified, vs their bigger brothers. So more orders for these could come later, although your point is taken: orders are still smaller than you would think they would be based on comparitive 73G and 319ceo orders.

Quoting col (Reply 22):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Ah! Very clever! Now, I wonder how many 737-NG operators (not 737-classic) Airbus will convert to A320NEO. So far AA is the only one that comes to mind (and that is no small victory for A).

Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?
Quoting zeke (Reply 28):
Quoting Kengo (Reply 16):
I can think of only one...Silk Air.

United, South African ?

AA split their order since neither A nor B could handle all their needs. It was hardly a switch to A. Lion Air and Norwegian ordered both. Pegasus and Silk are perhaps the only examples of a full A to B or B to A switch.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 29):
This order was a given IMO


I agree. To order the MAX, the benefits would have to have been very compelling for AC, including the additional cost of a mixed fleet of 32xceo and MAX for several years during the transition.
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:43 am

Quoting AircanadaA330 (Reply 8):
I wonder if AC will be increasing their A321 fleet, or if they will stay with 10.

I do hope so, the A321NEO seems to be the perfect plane for AC for transcontinental routes and Mexico. I also hope that AC will order the CSeries, will be the best order this year after Lufthansa´s huge widebody order 
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gigneil
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:53 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 28):
United, South African ?

South African hasn't ordered any MAX jets.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 31):
while right now the 739 performs better than the current 321

No, it does not.

NS
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:59 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
A number of those also ordered the MAX, so I'd say it's more a case of earlier availability of the A320neo driving the initial replacement tranche, with availability of the 737 MAX driving the follow-on replacement tranche.

But the MAX is only a few years behind the NEO. You make it sound as if the introduction of a whole new fleet type is simply a stopgap measure until the MAX arrives, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
AA split their order since neither A nor B could handle all their needs. It was hardly a switch to A.

After AA retired their A300s, their relationship with Airbus pretty much ended. The decision to purchase a new fleet of Airbus A320/NEO family aircraft is no small victory for Airbus. They just won back a very important customer.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
I agree. To order the MAX, the benefits would have to have been very compelling for AC, including the additional cost of a mixed fleet of 32xceo and MAX for several years during the transition.

But AA will operate a mixed fleet. Why can't AC?
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gigneil
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:37 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
AA split their order since neither A nor B could handle all their needs.

You know that isn't the case. AA was prepared to order zero Boeing aircraft until the hail mary pass for the MAXes.

NS
 
chiad
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:39 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Has Boeing managed to get any A320 operator to switch to 737s?
Quoting col (Reply 22):
Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?

The most recent one would be VivaAerobus.

Quoting zeke (Reply 28):
United, South African ?

Huh? ... UA has a B737 fleet number more than 250 frames, while South African also has a substantial B737 fleet.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:13 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 28):
Probably true when the decision was made, on the longer sectors I understand the new A320s are performing better (with sharklets).

Very probably! Also QF have ordered A320NEOs (for JQ) but AFAIK they have not ordered any B737MAXs.

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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:17 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
But AA will operate a mixed fleet. Why can't AC?

AC is currently trying to cut costs and unless there is a significant benefit to operating a mixed fleet in the same capacity / range segment (for instance, if one design was significantly more capable for Arctic operations but is otherwise less efficient) then there's no need to complicate matters with two similar designs.

The order won't be large enough that one manufacturer is unable to fill it (although delivery slots are looking pretty full, both A and B are probably willing to squeeze a big customer like AC in somewhere) and it's looking like the long and thin routes (of which Canada has many) may be served by CSeries or E2s anyway.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
After AA retired their A300s, their relationship with Airbus pretty much ended. The decision to purchase a new fleet of Airbus A320/NEO family aircraft is no small victory for Airbus. They just won back a very important customer.

They PARTIALLY won back a customer. It was not a wholesale transfer of allegiance to A, which was the premise of the above question.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 38):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 34):
AA split their order since neither A nor B could handle all their needs.

You know that isn't the case. AA was prepared to order zero Boeing aircraft until the hail mary pass for the MAXes.

AA has publicly stated that neither manufacturer could satisfy all their needs and a mixed order was inevitable.

Quoting chiad (Reply 39):
The most recent one would be VivaAerobus.

A replacement of classic, 2nd-hand 733's with ceo/neo, so you are correct. But given the age of the 733 fleet and the lack of NG aircraft in their fleet, this order was arguably up for grabs. This is a less "abrupt" change of allegiance than Pegasus who is replacing 738's with neo's.

As for SAA, they're flippy floppy. They replaced an earlier fleet of 320's with 738's only to order new 320's to replace those 738's. No MAX or neo orders yet.

Getting back to AC, the mix of 320neo vs 321neo will be interesting. Probably a safe bet we will see more 321neo than the current 321 fleet.
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:37 am

Quoting chiad (Reply 39):
Quoting zeke (Reply 28):United, South African ?Huh? ... UA has a B737 fleet number more than 250 frames,

United isn't really a converted customer as they got their current/ordered 737s from their merger with CO
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:10 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Agreed. The article claims the NEO order is for A320 fleet replacements only. I assume the A319s will be replaced by A320s; E190s can be replaced by either CSeries or E190-E2 aircraft.

That seems like a logical possibility for AC. Would be good for the CSeries.  .

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Considering AC's current Airbus narrowbody fleet, I'd have been surprised if they had chosen the MAX over the neo.

Me too, but in a very competitive world stranger things have happened.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
If the A350-800 is "dead" because of low sales, then it looks like the A319neo and 737-7 might join it!

They are the slowest selling types of their respected family. But the numbers ordered are go course a lot higher then A350-800's ordered.

Quoting zeke (Reply 28):
I was really expecting a C series order from them. Maybe they know something more about the slow testing.

Who knows? But a CSeries order could still happen. But on a later date. And maybe AC is cautious since unfortunately the flight test program of the Cseries is going very slow.
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:22 am

Quoting col (Reply 22):
Lion Air, Norwegian, Garuda, Pegasus, QF. I think there may be a couple more?

And VivaAerobus, only two months ago.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Considering AC's current Airbus narrowbody fleet, I'd have been surprised if they had chosen the MAX over the neo.

Maybe, although many 737 operators don't have a problem with switching to the A320 family. Switching to another aircraft type, especially in the narrow-body market, happens quite often.
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:48 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 44):
They are the slowest selling types of their respected family. But the numbers ordered are go course a lot higher then A350-800's ordered.

But the A350-800 represents a significantly higher proportion of 'family sales' than the A319neo and -7MAX combined!   
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:59 pm

Reply 18
"Indeed, if one looks at the percentage of sales for the smallest members of the neo and MAX families, the picture is quite shocking - A319neo has just 45 firm orders (less than 1.8% of all neo sales) and the 7MAX has 55 (less than 3.4% of all MAX sales). 100 combined out of a grand total of over 4,000!

If the A350-800 is "dead" because of low sales, then it looks like the A319neo and 737-7 might join it!"

Whilst I appreciate that this is an Air Canada thread. This is a very interesting point. We know (cos they said so) that Boeing wanted to go for a new aircraft option with longer lead times,but were 'persuaded'by SouthWest and the like to go for a 'Max' route.

What was interesting at the time was that Boeing was going to move the whole family 'up a notch' thus leaving the 7 max out . It looks like they knew exactly what they were doing (no surprises).

It also says (to me at least) that the recently discussed 322NEO option may not be that far away. (will the 319 even exist - as stated it will need a shed load of orders to be viable). The C series and the like will I believe kill it stone dead.

Boeing will have its hands full for the next 4 years developing the 777X8/9. But I imagine that the moment this bird is done a replacement for the 737 will be next up in short order (and will contain a 757 sized aircraft in the family). Hence the time pressure on Airbus to do a 322 (or not at all - but right now they have a 'no opposition' window of opportunity).
 
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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:13 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 36):


Quoting gigneil,reply=36:
Quoting n7371f (Reply 31):
while right now the 739 performs better than the current 321

No, it does not.

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RE: Air Canada Close To A320neo Order

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Personally, I'm a big advocate of the CSeries, for very selfish reasons: passenger comfort. Wider seats being the big one. But bigger windows and larger luggage bins is huge too. Being built in Canada is a helpful consideration. But the other stuff is much bigger.

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