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VS11
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Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:14 pm

According to an article in the Boston Herald, Hainan Airlines is approved by the US DOT to start Boston to Beijing service in June.

"Flights will be initially offered four times per week aboard Boeing 787s, according to Hainan’s DOT application."
...
"Chinese visitors to Boston were second only to those from the United Kingdom last year, and they’ve jumped 287 percent to 147,000 annually since 2008. "

http://bostonherald.com/business/bus...eijing_airline_route_wins_approval

[Edited 2013-12-02 14:15:57]
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:02 am

When will we hear the formal announcement?
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apodino
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:02 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 1):
When will we hear the formal announcement?

Didn't this happen like years ago but the route was never started until now?

Anyways, Terminal E is going to be a very crowded place in the coming months with all the new services starting. There were plans a while ago to add 3 more gates and also to build a terminal F? You wonder if Massport will be forced to go in this direction in the future.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:49 am

The fact that domestic carriers don't care a bit about Boston means all sorts of new airlines are happily arriving to handle the demand.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:54 am

Any plans to follow JAL's suit and start SAN?
 
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:07 am

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 3):
The fact that domestic carriers don't care a bit about Boston means all sorts of new airlines are happily arriving to handle the demand.

I wouldn't say this Chris. After all is said and done with the US/AA merger, B6, DL, and AA will all have over 21 gates in BOS. My quick mental math tells me that these three carriers will have a combined total of 69 gates in BOS. If they didn't care about BOS, they wouldn't need so many. UA is actually only going to have 9 gates going forward.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:06 am

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 3):

The fact that domestic carriers don't care a bit about Boston means all sorts of new airlines are happily arriving to handle the demand.

Ultra long haul flights simply do not meet any US carriers plans at BOS. However, we may see more transatlantic in the future from DL or the combined AA/US. Don't hold your breath for UA to do anything though.

I do wonder if NW and DL did not merge and the 787 program was not delayed, would NW have started BOS-NRT with the 787.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 1):
When will we hear the formal announcement?

Possibly this week. Massport declined comment but a deal must be in place. This flight will get the incentive package.
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:00 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
Anyways, Terminal E is going to be a very crowded place in the coming months with all the new services starting.

I think this flight have a schedule more like JALs, when Terminal E is pretty empty
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting dfambro (Reply 7):

Its now official - first flight 20 JUN 2014

HU481 PEK1350 – 1510BOS 787 x247
HU482 BOS1710 – 1850+1PEK 787 x247

http://airlineroute.net/2013/12/03/hu-bos-jun14/


Surprisingly a bit later than the NRT flight
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:05 pm

I believe Hainan said in its filing that this would become a daily flight; just not sure when.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Not surprised... number of Chinese students in the Boston area has literally skyrocketed in the last few years.
 
aa1818
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):

Its now official - first flight 20 JUN 2014

HU481 PEK1350 – 1510BOS 787 x247
HU482 BOS1710 – 1850+1PEK 787 x247

Any chance of an AA code on this flight?

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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:29 pm

Awesome ... just awesome!!!    BOS on a roll!!!   

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 9):
I believe Hainan said in its filing that this would become a daily flight; just not sure when.

This will definitely go 7x weekly very soon ... either from the start (if they had enough frames) due to strong bookings ... or soon after (before the holiday season)

  

[Edited 2013-12-03 07:49:42]
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:44 pm

Almost an afterthought, but in addition to all the new stuff coming to Logan we'll also be seeing our first Aer Lingus 757s!
 
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 13):
Almost an afterthought, but in addition to all the new stuff coming to Logan we'll also be seeing our first Aer Lingus 757s!

Is this in addition to what they currently have year-round? They do have a second A330 seasonal.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting VS11 (Reply 14):
Is this in addition to what they currently have year-round? They do have a second A330 seasonal.

I believe this will be used on BOS-SNN only.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
jcarv
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:19 am

Yes SNN only. They will all be based in SNN.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:25 pm

Official announcement by Hainan, Massport and Governor Patrick will be today.

http://bostonherald.com/business/bus...ijing_travel_traffic_spurs_flights

[Edited 2013-12-04 04:44:27]
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airbazar
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
If they didn't care about BOS, they wouldn't need so many. UA is actually only going to have 9 gates going forward.

I think he was refering to international destinations from Boston. U.S. carriers have all but left international service to their foreign partners. Amazingly DL has managed to sustain and even grow their LHR service.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 6):
Ultra long haul flights simply do not meet any US carriers plans at BOS.

I wouldn't call BOS-PEK a ultra long haul flight.

[Edited 2013-12-04 04:44:09]
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I think he was refering to international destinations from Boston. U.S. carriers have all but left international service to their foreign partners. Amazingly DL has managed to sustain and even grow their LHR service.

Yes, that's what I meant. But perhaps I'm being too tough on our own legacy carriers. It could be that once THEY get 787s and other planes meant for 'long-and-thin' routes we will see Boston treated differently. But I am not going to hold my breath.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I wouldn't call BOS-PEK a ultra long haul flight.
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):
Yes, that's what I meant. But perhaps I'm being too tough on our own legacy carriers. It could be that once THEY get 787s and other planes meant for 'long-and-thin' routes we will see Boston treated differently. But I am not going to hold my breath.

Technically you are right - 7500 miles seems to be the cutoff. I guess the longest of the long haul flights are not in legacy airline plans in BOS but DL could surprise us someday.
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tlecam
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:21 pm

I don't think that the new AA or DL have the planes to make the Asia routes work financially. Seems to be a 787 route, not a 777 route and 763/330's don't have the range.

That's a crowded time slot at Terminal E- there are a lot of wide bodies on the ground around ~17:00.

Is PEK one of the Chinese airports that is chronically delayed?
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:36 pm

I just checked their aircraft on some routes to North America and SEA is A332, ORD is now 787, YYZ is A346 and BOS will be 787.

I understand that YYZ will be 787 shortly so all their North America routes to PEK will be A332/787. This dramatically gives them a competitive advantage of lower costs flying small (point to point) routes.
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:19 am

I'm excited to see this finally come into fruition. This will be the longest route from BOS at 6737 miles. Just three years ago, that was BOS-FCO at 4093 miles! That being said, anyone else think that the media doesn't seem all that excited about it? I feel like there are less articles about it than when an airline announces any other route. This is a big deal for BOS and to a lesser extent PEK!
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:45 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 23):
I'm excited to see this finally come into fruition. This will be the longest route from BOS at 6737 miles. Just three years ago, that was BOS-FCO at 4093 miles! That being said, anyone else think that the media doesn't seem all that excited about it? I feel like there are less articles about it than when an airline announces any other route. This is a big deal for BOS and to a lesser extent PEK!

Yeah I noticed it too! I'm guessing that is because the official news release and press conferences are not done yet? The PR machine hasn't started grinding yet ... I hope.
 
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:13 pm

This is really good. I do agree with the comment from Chris that the large domestic carriers don't care as much for Boston even if it has the most attrative and lucrative O&D destination points compared to most of the giant hubs. Be it education, diversity, high-tech, biotech etc. Boston is indeed the best bet. Every other day I see every single pharma or hi-tech and today Aramco establish R&D facilities so it's an excellent bet. Delta, US-AA etc. will have a large number of gates but I doubt they will ever offer even reasonable number of domestic destinations other than what they already have. In any case, I would anyways love to fly Lufthansa or an Emirates than flying US Airways or Delta in terms of comfort, facilities etc. I'm quite sure El-Al will make Boston it's next destination - Good luck Boston!
 
airbazar
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):
Yes, that's what I meant. But perhaps I'm being too tough on our own legacy carriers. It could be that once THEY get 787s and other planes meant for 'long-and-thin' routes we will see Boston treated differently. But I am not going to hold my breath.

Same here althought it's hard to call a market with 148,000 annual passengers and growing, a thin route  
If we go by a previously established notion that a non-stop flight can stimulate a market as much as 100%, I would expect to see another route to China soon.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 23):
This will be the longest route from BOS at 6737 miles.

As a GC route it barely beats BOS-NRT but BOS-PEK seems to go right over the north pole and thus faces little head winds. In terms of time it will be interesting to see which one is longer. For example, yesterday's BOS-NRT was 7,300+sm long and 13+hrs.
 
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:46 pm

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 23):
That being said, anyone else think that the media doesn't seem all that excited about it? I feel like there are less articles about it than when an airline announces any other route. This is a big deal for BOS and to a lesser extent PEK!

It was mentioned every ten minutes on WBZ 1030 AM. Were the other routes announced by Gov Patrick as well?

Its more than a big deal for BOS - its the biggest deal imaginable other than PVG: BOS-PEK will have the largest economic impact on BOS compared to any of the other previously announced flights that start next year.
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tlecam
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:58 pm

There was a mention in the Boston Globe this morning; it's getting quite a bit of press here in Boston this morning.
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:10 pm

Some video from the press conference at the State House.

http://www.necn.com/12/04/13/Boston-...nding_business.html?blockID=859161
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JetBlue1058
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:11 pm

What days does it operate for now?
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:48 pm

Can we infer that 4x weekly isn't because daily demand isn't there (sounds like it most certainly is...and will be) but because of aircraft & crew availability?
 
dtfg
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:38 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 31):
Can we infer that 4x weekly isn't because daily demand isn't there (sounds like it most certainly is...and will be) but because of aircraft & crew availability?
HU is always prudent to run long haul flights, and this is reasonable since almost all the lucrative routes out of PEK are controlled by Air China. If you look at HU's all long haul routes, non of them have ever gone daily year around. The only route that goes daily in summer is PEK-SEA.

Of course they also face aircraft shortage to run BOS daily. According to HU's plan, they will use their 787s on PEK-ORD, PEK-SEA, PEK-YYZ abd PEK-BOS, and probably to add EWR. However, by the mid of next year, they will only have 7 787s (if I am right)

yb

[Edited 2013-12-05 11:43:28]
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:58 pm

Quoting dtfg (Reply 32):
According to HU's plan, they will use their 787s on PEK-ORD, PEK-SEA, PEK-YYZ abd PEK-BOS

A330 is loaded for PEK-SEA and A340 is loaded for PEK-YYZ so far for Summer 2014.

Quoting jetblue1058 (Reply 30):
What days does it operate for now?

Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat - Next day arrival in PEK - Same day arrival in BOS.
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ASA
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:22 pm

Very little enthusiasm and response among A-nutters about this route!  

Is it because it was widely anticipated?
 
airbazar
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 34):
Is it because it was widely anticipated?

I think the fact that it is a Chinese carrier, has played a role in it. If it had been a DL or AA annoucement, or CX, KE, it would have been different. But for me personally it's more of a "I believe it when I see it" attitude   The history of service annoucements in Boston from this airline specifically and service to China in general, hasn't been very good.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:30 pm

Also we are reminded of the fact that this 'news' actually surfaced YEARS ago when the 787 was still on the drawing board, or at least when it was still in prototype stage. So a bit of the air gets let out of the balloon because of that, at least for the Boston community.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:34 pm

Is it just me or Chinese carriers are shadowing ME3 in USA? ORD now BOS.
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SCQ83
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 37):
Is it just me or Chinese carriers are shadowing ME3 in USA? ORD now BOS.

Apples to oranges... there is virtually no overlap between US-China and US-ME flights and connections.
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 28):
There was a mention in the Boston Globe this morning; it's getting quite a bit of press here in Boston this morning.

The press has picked up on it more since my last post there.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 36):
Also we are reminded of the fact that this 'news' actually surfaced YEARS ago when the 787 was still on the drawing board, or at least when it was still in prototype stage. So a bit of the air gets let out of the balloon because of that, at least for the Boston community.

I agree. Maybe the huge media storm will be on June 20 when it first arrives.
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IrishAyes
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 34):

Very little enthusiasm and response among A-nutters about this route!  

Is it because it was widely anticipated?
Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
I think the fact that it is a Chinese carrier, has played a role in it. If it had been a DL or AA annoucement, or CX, KE, it would have been different. But for me personally it's more of a "I believe it when I see it" attitude   The history of service annoucements in Boston from this airline specifically and service to China in general, hasn't been very good.

Honestly, I think it's even more high level than that.

New route announcements are always fun and glamorous to talk about. Sometimes, even more exciting is discussing speculative routes before they're even announced.

What this does, in sort of a catch-22 fashion, is that it does kind of dim the noise a bit when the route actually comes to fruition.

I also think that we (at least here in the US) have been blessed recently with a TON of new global route developments as of late. Climbing out of a recession, we were saddled with a few years where cuts were more common than additions from global airlines.

Now, things have changed. Some competition and capacity has been removed, airlines are reporting healthier premium demand levels (aka rebounding/recovery), some have restructured and cleaned house with lower operating costs, and others have (finally) started to receive the much-coveted next-generation a/c, such as the 787, that enable them to announce new routes.

Look at Boston alone. Within the past 18 months, look at all that has happened: there's the JL flight to NRT, the CM service to PTY, EK to DXB and TK to IST. Those are some pretty major enhancements.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
The history of service annoucements in Boston from this airline specifically and service to China in general, hasn't been very good.

787 delays factored greatly in HU's plans. They never had anything loaded in GDS and bookable before.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 40):
Look at Boston alone. Within the past 18 months, look at all that has happened: there's the JL flight to NRT, the CM service to PTY, EK to DXB and TK to IST. Those are some pretty major enhancements.

Agreed with everything you wrote. I'd actually be ticked off if QR, EY, or (to an extent) KE/CX announced BOS in the next month thoughj I expect 2 out of these 4 airlines in the next 5 years. We need our new service to mature. A similar situation seems to be brewing at DFW. They may have a bit of excess capacity to Middle East rather quickly if the EY rumors are true.
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:08 pm

I'm still wondering what Qatar sees in Philadelphia that it didn't see in Boston. Probably some sort of huge discount to run the service.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 42):

I'm still wondering what Qatar sees in Philadelphia that it didn't see in Boston. Probably some sort of huge discount to run the service.

QR is moving into Philadelphia to capitalize on the impending OneWorld connection with US Airways moving to OW in a short period. It's a hub-to-hub route.

BOS also has a much, MUCH higher variation of foreign carrier competition, whereas at PHL, the only two FF carriers are BA and LH.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 41):
They may have a bit of excess capacity to Middle East rather quickly if the EY rumors are true.

Agreed 100%. The QR announcement to DFW does not surprise me, and I think is necessary. An EY addition would be overkill, at least right now.
 
airbazar
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 41):
787 delays factored greatly in HU's plans. They never had anything loaded in GDS and bookable before.

That's the official reason, at least   They started YYZ and ORD without the 787.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 43):
Agreed 100%. The QR announcement to DFW does not surprise me, and I think is necessary. An EY addition would be overkill, at least right now.

I've said this a few times in other threads. I don't believe this growth by the ME3 carriers is sustainable in th long run so I think that what we're seeing is an "arms race", for lack of a better term. TK will eat into their growth, and the European and other Asian carriers will eventually get their act together. There will be room for 1 or maybe 2 of these ME3 carriers but one of them won't survive. That's my theory at least.
 
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:22 am

Quoting irishayes (Reply 43):
QR is moving into Philadelphia to capitalize on the impending OneWorld connection with US Airways moving to OW in a short period. It's a hub-to-hub route.

QR also had a partnership with US before the AA merger - earning and burning reciprocity but no status.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 42):


I'm still wondering what Qatar sees in Philadelphia that it didn't see in Boston. Probably some sort of huge discount to run the service.

They could have be waiting to receive A350 to launch it.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 44):
That's the official reason, at least   They started YYZ and ORD without the 787.

The economic downturn of 2008 didn't help either. ORD does get from AA and only started 2x weekly.

Speaking of AA - will they codeshare on this route as they do on ORD and SEA service?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
iyerhari
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:59 pm

I read Boston Globe and Deval Patrick has mentioned that Boston is vying for new international destinations to Shanghai, Brazil Israel and newer destinations in South America. It's almost certain that will happen based on how things are going. Goodbye Delta who's been promising Milan forever and still not made it happen - there will be far better competitive international carriers who will provide this destination from Logan rather than connect through their so-called great hubs.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:39 pm

The Boston area is awash in population enclaves from S. America (Framingham, anyone?). What South America doesn't have are financially healthy carriers, and we already know that airlines like United are quite happy to fly A319s/A320s from Boston to SFO & Chicago and leave it at that. So there is a void for north-south service. Practically all the new service into Boston...aside from Copa and maybe another...has been east-west.
 
dtfg
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:17 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:13 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 45):
Speaking of AA - will they codeshare on this route as they do on ORD and SEA service?

There hasn't been an announcement yet but they are likely to cooperate on this route.
 
ASA
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RE: Hainan Airlines Approved For BOS-Beijing Flights

Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:19 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 47):

The Boston area is awash in population enclaves from S. America (Framingham, anyone?). What South America doesn't have are financially healthy carriers, and we already know that airlines like United are quite happy to fly A319s/A320s from Boston to SFO & Chicago and leave it at that. So there is a void for north-south service. Practically all the new service into Boston...aside from Copa and maybe another...has been east-west.

My wishlist for South American routes 

GRU-BOS on a LAN 787 ... timed with the JAL service at BOS for Japan connections

and MEX-BOS on a MX 787 ... we can DEMAND 787s as prerequisites for new service   


Hey - a man can dream, right?   

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