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United Airline
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Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:05 am

Any chance of a HKG-HNL-HKG service? Perhaps Dragonair or Hong Kong Airlines can do it? What about CX?
 
azjubilee
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:13 am

Perhaps Hawaiian Airlines has other cities in mind for the future, like Shanghai and Hong Kong, after seeing how the launch of Bejing in April goes.

[Edited 2013-12-03 20:31:01]
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:35 am

I am shocked this route is currently unserved
 
COSPN
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:40 am

not really needed UA has 4 x a week HNL-GUM-HKG RT so meets the demand for now
 
YLWbased
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:47 am

It existed in the 80s when United operated 3x weekly (?) nonstop HNL-HKG, flight time was about 12 hrs.

Back to present day, if a Hong Konger wants to go to a sunshine destination to enjoy a lovely vacation, we have a choice of 10 destinations within 4 hrs reach where most of them doesn't require VISA to visit and most importantly, much cheaper than the US and possibly nicer than Hawaii to some extend.


Sunshine Destination ex-HKG within 4hrs (non-stop):

Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia
Koh Samui, Thailand
Cebu, Philippines
Bali, Indonesia
Surabaya, Indonesia
Iloilo, Philippines
Sanya, China
Da Nang, Vietnam
Okinawa, Japan
Phuket, Thailand

And remember, we can reach almost every major sunshine destination in SE Asia within 6 hrs with 1 connection from the above listed airport, that's more beaches than I have time to visit!

And if SE Asia is not your thing, and a Hong Konger would like to explore further away with some internationally famous luxury resort, HKG currently have direct flights to the following sunshine destinations (6hrs+), some multiple daily flights:

Male, Maldives
Guam
Mahe, Seychelles (1 stop)
Koror, Palau

If this still isn't enough for the beach lovers, we can get to Greece faster via DXB or IST than non-stop HNL. Now tell me who's interested in Hawaii for their next vacation?   

Btw, I just came back from El Nido, Philippines a month ago. 4hrs ex-HKG via MNL, jaw dropping beautiful!
el
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFE1YzPyTCc

Edited to add more information.

YLWbased

[Edited 2013-12-03 20:50:02]

[Edited 2013-12-03 20:52:32]

[Edited 2013-12-03 20:52:58]
 
jetlanta
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:41 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 4):
Back to present day, if a Hong Konger wants to go to a sunshine destination to enjoy a lovely vacation, we have a choice of 10 destinations within 4 hrs reach where most of them doesn't require VISA to visit and most importantly, much cheaper than the US and possibly nicer than Hawaii to some extend.


Sunshine Destination ex-HKG within 4hrs (non-stop):

Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia
Koh Samui, Thailand
Cebu, Philippines
Bali, Indonesia
Surabaya, Indonesia
Iloilo, Philippines
Sanya, China
Da Nang, Vietnam
Okinawa, Japan
Phuket, Thailand

And remember, we can reach almost every major sunshine destination in SE Asia within 6 hrs with 1 connection from the above listed airport, that's more beaches than I have time to visit!

And if SE Asia is not your thing, and a Hong Konger would like to explore further away with some internationally famous luxury resort, HKG currently have direct flights to the following sunshine destinations (6hrs+), some multiple daily flights:

Male, Maldives
Guam
Mahe, Seychelles (1 stop)
Koror, Palau

If this still isn't enough for the beach lovers, we can get to Greece faster via DXB or IST than non-stop HNL. Now tell me who's interested in Hawaii for their next vacation?   

All of this is fine but it still misses the point. Hawaii is HAWAII. It is an aspirational destination in a way that none of the other places you mention are. Even today, without nonstop service, about 60 PDEW travel in the HKG-HNL O&D market. There are nearly 100 more in from other points across Southeast Asia. And China-Hawaii is just now starting to explode.

You analysis is too simplistic. To compare Hawaii to purely beach destinations is to overlook its other attributes...culture, variety, topography, geology, history and reputation. Hawaii has been part of the global conversation for over a century and its relative prestige, safety and security all amount to a truly world-class destination. It is not just another beach.
 
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zeke
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

CX/KA have looked at it, it is too far from HKG for an A333 direct, means either one stop or an A343. Probably means the yield is better on other city pairs to serve direct with current equipment. Be a nice A350 route.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:14 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Perhaps Dragonair or Hong Kong Airlines can do it? What about CX?
KA tend to operate more regional routes, HKG-HNL would be their longest route by far. Also KA has little brand recognition in USA so CX would be better to operate it. But as zeke says CX has better places to use the aircraft that are capable of such a long route. HX has many more destinations it should serve before picking HNL. HA is most likely, but only once A350s arrive.

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 4):

There's many a "beach destination" around the world that attracts tourists from far flung places. Look at HKT for example, it's full of Russians, Brits and Australians. Yet there are many seemingly similar destinations closer to these tourists. Also see the amount of Australians heading to HNL, when DPS, HKT, NAN are closer and cheaper. HNL has more to offer than just a holiday by the beach - it's certainly no AGP.

[Edited 2013-12-03 22:16:02]
 
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afterburner
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:35 am

If Hawaii is so special, why does it only have very few non-stop flights to US East Coast cities?
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:37 am

Quoting afterburner (Reply 8):

You have a daily flight to JFK, EWR, IAD (not sure if daily) and if you want to count it...ATL

All widebodies, about 1200 seats daily (rounding).

How many more does it need???
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:52 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 6):
CX/KA have looked at it, it is too far from HKG for an A333 direct, means either one stop or an A343.

Seems like it ought to work with a 242 t A333, once those start arriving. The Asia mid-haul configuration would seem appropriate for the route even though it's longer than most regional routes, too.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 4):
Sunshine Destination ex-HKG within 4hrs (non-stop):
Surabaya, Indonesia

That one is a big stretch given Surabaya is an industrial city with no beach front... CX's flight there serves foreign domestic helpers and limited business travel. By no means a sunshine destination.
A
 
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afterburner
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:20 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9):
How many more does it need???

I mean is very view cities. Btw, how many seats are there from US East Coast cities to Mexican and Caribbean beach destinations daily?

IMO, the different between Hawaii and South-East Asian beach destinations for most (East) Asian and Australian tourists, Hawaii is once-in-a-life-time destination, However, they can visit SE Asian beaches (almost) every year. Cmiiw.
 
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zeke
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:20 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 10):

To be honest I have not looked at the route for some time, the limit may also revolve around passenger oxygen (with gaseous oxygen we can change the over water drift down) and in flight crew rest requirements. The time zone change is 6 hours, under our current HKCAD rules bunks would need to be provided for the flight crew.
 
davidho1985
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 4):
It existed in the 80s when United operated 3x weekly (?) nonstop HNL-HKG, flight time was about 12 hrs.

Back to present day, if a Hong Konger wants to go to a sunshine destination to enjoy a lovely vacation, we have a choice of 10 destinations within 4 hrs reach where most of them doesn't require VISA to visit and most importantly, much cheaper than the US and possibly nicer than Hawaii to some extend.


Sunshine Destination ex-HKG within 4hrs (non-stop):

Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia
Koh Samui, Thailand
Cebu, Philippines
Bali, Indonesia
Surabaya, Indonesia
Iloilo, Philippines
Sanya, China
Da Nang, Vietnam
Okinawa, Japan
Phuket, Thailand

And remember, we can reach almost every major sunshine destination in SE Asia within 6 hrs with 1 connection from the above listed airport, that's more beaches than I have time to visit!

And if SE Asia is not your thing, and a Hong Konger would like to explore further away with some internationally famous luxury resort, HKG currently have direct flights to the following sunshine destinations (6hrs+), some multiple daily flights:

Male, Maldives
Guam
Mahe, Seychelles (1 stop)
Koror, Palau

If this still isn't enough for the beach lovers, we can get to Greece faster via DXB or IST than non-stop HNL. Now tell me who's interested in Hawaii for their next vacation?

Btw, I just came back from El Nido, Philippines a month ago. 4hrs ex-HKG via MNL, jaw dropping beautiful!
el
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFE1YzPyTCc

Edited to add more information.

YLWbased

And HongKonger needed US visa to go to HNL while all the destinations (except Vietnam) mentioned above are visa-free.

[Edited 2013-12-03 23:24:22]
 
YLWbased
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:49 am

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 11):
That one is a big stretch given Surabaya is an industrial city with no beach front... CX's flight there serves foreign domestic helpers and limited business travel. By no means a sunshine destination.
A

My apology for being a bit confusing, but people uses Surabaya Airport to go to the near by Madura Island for their beautiful beaches, it is about 2 hrs by Van and it is pretty nice (was there last year).

Quoting afterburner (Reply 12):
IMO, the different between Hawaii and South-East Asian beach destinations for most (East) Asian and Australian tourists, Hawaii is once-in-a-life-time destination, However, they can visit SE Asian beaches (almost) every year. Cmiiw.

As I've already mentioned, there are a lot of "once in a life time" destinations for HKers to choose from, which are closer, easier to get to and most of the time cheaper than Hawaii, and ofcoz, visa free. I totally agree that Hawaii have much more to offer than beautiful beaches, I've personally been to Hawaii 3 times and I appreciate what that place have to offer, including culture and heritage. But come to think about it, which destination doesn't offer rich cultural experience to tourist in the above mentioned destinations? Come talk to the locals here and I can guarantee you that close enough to almost no one here in Hong Kong have Hawaii listed anywhere even remotely on top of their "once in a life time" destination list, furthermore, an airline cannot sustain a route only to serve the "once in the life time" group of people.

I'll have my bet on seeing n/s to Greece, Spain even Mexico before we'd see n/s service to Hawaii.

P.S. I forgot to add Nadi, Fiji to n/s destination list ex-HKG above.

YLWbased
 
JQflightie
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:25 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 4):

[quote=YLWbased,reply=4]Sunshine Destination ex-HKG within 4hrs (non-stop):

Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia
Koh Samui, Thailand
Cebu, Philippines
Bali, Indonesia
Surabaya, Indonesia
Iloilo, Philippines
Sanya, China
Da Nang, Vietnam
Okinawa, Japan
Phuket, Thailand[/quote

Agreed, that these destinations are within 4hrs of HKG and most reached by a LCC - But with the exception of Okinawa (AMAZING) the rest of these destinations really lack what HNL have to offer - HNL is cheap, beautiful beaches and more importantly CLEAN beaches.
I do have a soft spot for KK tho - ive ben many times but I wouldn't say its beautiful, its food/culture and people are amazing, but that's it.
For an average Australian, HNL is a dirt cheap holiday island with amazing shopping and cheap.

Now Guam on the other hand is amazing and if I were the average Hong Konger, id stay on that ane a little longer and go to Guam, Male etc  
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:34 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 15):

One minor flaw in this thinking that folks from (insert city of choice here) wont go to Hawaii is because service isn't offered. HA operates almost exclusively on "if you build it, they will come". That's the whole point of tour operators and marketing...make something more than what there is today.

Per your line "once In a lifetime" vacation, that is what HA has primarily built its whole business on (save for interisland). It is almost exclusively that way to Japan and Korea (more so the latter). It seems to be working just fine. No need to be a network carrier like the rest.

As the Chinese amass more personal wealth, the same thing will happen.

People in Hong Kong don't think much of Hawaii today because getting there isn't easy. Give them the easy route, and they will come. Not in a big rush, but the numbers will grow.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:36 am

Also, I'm interested in hearing more about Guam if anyone has a good website or resource they'd like to share.

Pops up more and more on my radar
 
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afterburner
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:13 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 18):
People in Hong Kong don't think much of Hawaii today because getting there isn't easy. Give them the easy route, and they will come. Not in a big rush, but the numbers will grow.

So, why hasn't any of US or Hong Kong airlines thought about this?

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 17):
For an average Australian, HNL is a dirt cheap holiday island with amazing shopping and cheap.

But the route we're discussing here is for Hong Kongers, not Australians.  
 
JQflightie
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:23 am

Quoting afterburner (Reply 22):
But the route we're discussing here is for Hong Kongers, not Australians

yes I know that, but the HKD is quiet strong and conversion into USD is not to bad, so I struggle to se how HNL would be expensive for a hong konger
 
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zeke
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 23):
yes I know that, but the HKD is quiet strong and conversion into USD is not to bad, so I struggle to se how HNL would be expensive for a hong konger

The HKD is pegged to the USD.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:32 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 5):
All of this is fine but it still misses the point. Hawaii is HAWAII. It is an aspirational destination in a way that none of the other places you mention are.

While that is true for Americans, it is probably not true for the rest of the world. To most of the word Hawaii is just another very pretty island with nice beaches, or the home of the Kek telescope, but not especially magical. Plus very expensive. Plus, unless its very different on Hawaii, the worst point of entry experience you can make as a foreigner.

I could see a lot traffic from Hawaii to HKG though.

best regards
Thomas
 
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afterburner
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:37 am

HKD has been relatively stable against the USD for years while AUD has gained significantly since 2009.
 
PHX787
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:42 am

As many have stated I'm certain its somewhere down the pipe for HA. Especially if the new PEK route is successful.
 
YLWbased
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:21 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 23):
yes I know that, but the HKD is quiet strong and conversion into USD is not to bad, so I struggle to se how HNL would be expensive for a hong konger

Do you know what is the average income of Hong Kong and how much lower it is comparing it to Australia?

The Median household monthly income in Hong Kong is HKD$22,000 (or AUD 3,144.67) which translate to about AUD 37,728/year; in 2012, the mean income for an Australian family is AUD 57,400/year, see the difference?

Australian makes about AUD 16,972 more a year comparing to Hong Konger, which gives them a better position to spend in a place where the mean income in on par with them, in this case - the state of Hawaii.

In reference to the Big Mac Index in 2012, big mac cost USD$2.13 in Hong Kong, USD$4.62 in Australia or USD$4.56 in the USA, which also reflected that the US have a similar standard of living with the states while the US will be a relatively more expensive destination for Hong Konger to visit.

To us local, the US of A is certainly no casual place to visit for 90% of the city's population, as it would simply cost too much. And as it was pointed earlier, places that are expensive usually falls under the "once in a life time trip" category, which Hong Konger much more prefer the Visa free places like Greece, Span, Maldives and even Fiji; where it provides equally as much offerings (both scenic and cultural wise) when comparing to Hawaii.

YLWbased
 
Cipango
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:47 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Perhaps Dragonair or Hong Kong Airlines can do it?

Its not a route that would fit the strategy of Dragonair or HK Airlines. If this route were to start (which I think it will within the next 3 years), HA would operate it.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 28):
Australian makes about AUD 16,972 more a year comparing to Hong Konger, which gives them a better position to spend in a place where the mean income in on par with them, in this case - the state of Hawaii.

Not to forget that Rent is outrages in Hongkong, so they probably spend a larger portion of their income on that.

best regards
Thomas
 
LDIkaros
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:46 pm

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 17):
But with the exception of Okinawa (AMAZING) the rest of these destinations really lack what HNL have to offer - HNL is cheap, beautiful beaches and more importantly CLEAN beaches

HNL is far from cheap. It's one of the most expensive destinations in the US.
I live on Oahu and fly to SE Asia every year simply because SE Asia offers a lot more than Hawaii for a fraction of the price.

A lot of people I know go to Hawaii from the US mainland because Hawaii is relatively close and it is part of the US so those folks don't need a passport and feel relatively safe.

For people from HKG it is the opposite - Hawaii is quite far away and it requires an expensive visa. If you really interested in Hawaiian culture then go. However, beach-wise SE Asia offers nicer beaches.

I don't think a HKG-HNL route would work. You need a lot more than tourists to make that route work.

Just my 2 cents ...
 
ben175
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:59 pm

I'd love to see CX or HA attempt this route.

I think a flight leaving HNL in the early morning, arriving HKG around sunrise (allowing for overnight connections from SIN/BKK/CGK/PER etc) and then flying back to HNL with a late night arrival would work.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:49 pm

Just a thought, are there any cruise lines from Lax Sfo to Hnl?
 
superjeff
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:40 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 34):
Just a thought, are there any cruise lines from Lax Sfo to Hnl?

With the rare exception of an occasional cruise to/from the U.S. West Coast, not since about 1961 when Matson discontinued service on the Lurline, Matsonia, Monterrey, and Mariposa.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting afterburner (Reply 22):
So, why hasn't any of US or Hong Kong airlines thought about this?

There is a time and place for every route...just because it doesn't exist today doesn't mean it can't exist tomorrow. Sometime the right variables need to come along. The right airline, the right airplane, the right economy.

Not necessarily in that order!
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 35):
not since about 1961 when Matson discontinued service on the Lurline, Matsonia, Monterrey, and Mariposa.

Is there a market opening there on that Seaboard?
 
jetlanta
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 25):
While that is true for Americans, it is probably not true for the rest of the world. To most of the word Hawaii is just another very pretty island with nice beaches, or the home of the Kek telescope, but not especially magical. Plus very expensive. Plus, unless its very different on Hawaii, the worst point of entry experience you can make as a foreigner.

In June 2014, HNL will support 881 monthly international flights (not including Canada) with 244,000 seats. ALL of those passengers are coming from origin points with the same issues you describe.

Nonstop service WILL happen at some point, just as it has to ICN, PVG, PEK, TPE, MNL and multiple points in Japan. HKG's geography makes it an ideal gateway to countries that already supply about 100 PDEW to Hawaii. And lest not start on southern China.

it is only a matter of time.
 
travelin man
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 34):
Just a thought, are there any cruise lines from Lax Sfo to Hnl?

Yes, there is a regular 15 day Los Angeles-Hawaii cruise on Princess.
http://www.cruisecompete.com/itins/star_princess_cruises_bcgeh.html

Departs (obviously) every 15 days.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:59 am

Has everyone forgottten the only direct HKG-HNL route was with Singapore Airlines as a stopover to SFO? HNL was only cancelled when SQ acquired the B747-400 which could overfly HNL in the late 80s. HNL has always been a stopover for many people from HKG and not as a destination. Besides such a route is viable only as a holiday destination and maybe in the future a LCC can do the route.

There are enough carriers flying from ICN/Japan/TPE/MNL to HNL that a direct HKG flight is not necessary.
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting LDIkaros (Reply 31):
For people from HKG it is the opposite - Hawaii is quite far away and it requires an expensive visa. If you really interested in Hawaiian culture then go. However, beach-wise SE Asia offers nicer beaches.

Asia also offers a rich cultural experience. You can do a lot more than just stay on the beach strip for your holiday.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:09 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 28):

Do you know what is the average income of Hong Kong and how much lower it is comparing it to Australia?

The Median household monthly income in Hong Kong is HKD$22,000 (or AUD 3,144.67) which translate to about AUD 37,728/year; in 2012, the mean income for an Australian family is AUD 57,400/year, see the difference?

Australian makes about AUD 16,972 more a year comparing to Hong Konger, which gives them a better position to spend in a place where the mean income in on par with them, in this case - the state of Hawaii.

In reference to the Big Mac Index in 2012, big mac cost USD$2.13 in Hong Kong, USD$4.62 in Australia or USD$4.56 in the USA, which also reflected that the US have a similar standard of living with the states while the US will be a relatively more expensive destination for Hong Konger to visit.

To us local, the US of A is certainly no casual place to visit for 90% of the city's population, as it would simply cost too much. And as it was pointed earlier, places that are expensive usually falls under the "once in a life time trip" category, which Hong Konger much more prefer the Visa free places like Greece, Span, Maldives and even Fiji; where it provides equally as much offerings (both scenic and cultural wise) when comparing to Hawaii.

Hong Kong people travel a lot. They do go to North America and Europe a lot. Yes the average income of Hong Kong might be lower than that of Australia but I remember reading an article saying that Hong Kong has the highest average wealth. Properties are outrageously expensive in Hong Kong and if you own something in Hong Kong you would be rich. Besides Hong Kong people make money through properties, shares etc. Some even suggested that Hong Kong has a higher income than Australia but I guess it's wrong and it is the high income people which pulled up the numbers.

I know poverty in Hong Kong is one of the worst among all developed places but for higher income people Hong Kong is probably one of the best paid if not the best paid. So I am sure Hong Kong people can afford Hawaii. A lot of things are cheaper in the US than in Hong Kong. Properties, shopping, cars, car rental etc.......

Most people around me have been to Europe and USA more than once.
 
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afterburner
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting LDIkaros (Reply 31):
You need a lot more than tourists to make that route work.

I think if there's a demand from business travelers, this route might work. They need non-stop flights more than tourists do.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:40 am

Lots of business travel in Hong Kong. That's why there are multiple number of flights to many US and European cities.

Wonder if leisure travel can make HKG-HNL work. Doubt there are much business ties between both cities. Hong Kong is very rich but people rather go elsewhere. They prefer Maldives over Hawaii.

TPE-HNL is however doing well
 
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Coal
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:33 am

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 5):
It is an aspirational destination in a way that none of the other places you mention are.

Fat @sses in floral shirts staying at a Marriott? Wow, I admire your aspirations! (But in all fairness I think some of the less well known islands should be quite nice).

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 5):
culture, variety, topography, geology, history and reputation.

You obviously know nothing about our side of the world (Southeast Asia).

I would rather go to a place like Dili, Komodo, Flores, Sipadan, than to Hawai'i.

Cheers
Coal
 
brilondon
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:54 am

If there were a market then there would be a flight. You might think something is a great idea but one person is not a market. I think that since Hong Kong has been given back to the Chinese people are not as willing to invest in a business there but I do business in Hong Kong and find it frustrating. Much more than it use to be. I think that that is the reason for the lack of a direct flight.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:11 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 45):
You obviously know nothing about our side of the world (Southeast Asia).

I would rather go to a place like Dili, Komodo, Flores, Sipadan, than to Hawai'i.

So I suppose the you think that JAL, ANA, Korean, Asiana, Air China, China Eastern, China Airlines, PAL, Delta and United know nothing about your side of the world? Or do you think they fly to HNL from Asian points because of the outstanding premium class demand?

You make a big mistake when you base the aspirations of others on your own.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 46):
If there were a market then there would be a flight. You might think something is a great idea but one person is not a market. I think that since Hong Kong has been given back to the Chinese people are not as willing to invest in a business there but I do business in Hong Kong and find it frustrating. Much more than it use to be. I think that that is the reason for the lack of a direct flight.

By that logic, there would never be any new markets added anywhere at any time. It wasn't long ago that there were no flights to HNL from PEK, PVG and TPE. That didn't mean there was no markets there. It just meant that no carrier had exploited them yet.

There are already 60 PDEW from HKG to HNL with no nonstop service. Plus another 100 from origin points that would best connect at HKG if the option existed. When you start out at 160 daily paxs of existing potential, you've got a potential market.
 
YLWbased
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:29 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 42):

This is largely becoz you are around a Middle Class crowd in Hong Kong, and how many of those trips were for Business or were one of those mileage flights (non rev), I beat close to half of them were.

It is extremely easy to accumate enough mileage in Hong Kong for tickets on a 12+ hrs flight by simply using credit cards, I've personally racked up 180,000 points in 2 years by applying 6 different credit cards, spend enough to take advantage of the welcoming points and cancel the card. By doing so, I can reapply for the exact same card 18 months later and enjoy the same welcoming benefit, I know most of my friends are doing the same for their trips to Europe and Australia, and this isn't exactly the type of travelers that any airlines are looking for.

According to a survey done by the Hong Kong Family Warefare Society in 2012, 90% of Hong Kong's population under the age of 16 have not traveled on a plane, while the number decreases to 50% for 16-25 and further decreases to 43% for 26-45 and 41% for 46 yo+.

Which means out of the 7.2 million people in Hong Kong (6.3 actual resident), 2.6 million of us would have never step foot into an aircraft in their entire life, while there are still 3.7 million people left, but how many of that people could afford to buy a ticket themselves (Not non-rev, not mileage, not steep discount fare which makes no profit for the airline)?

Leisure route provides very thin margin for airlines and long haul leisure routes are very hard to materializes unless the destination is really popular among local, which in this case, Hawaii isn't one of those.

The only way for this to happen is that for some reason the Tourism Office of Hawaii decided to do a massive promotion in Hong Kong, when I say massive, I mean covering everywhere massive which costs more than a few million bucks massive. Okinawa did that once, and it was utterly successful. They put Ads on Tram, Bus, MTR, Trains, Airport, Every Major Newspaper and Magazine, Editorial everyweek for a year, free tickets, lucky draw, the entire campaign end up costing the Okinawa government about 4.8 million USD, but it was a rather successful one. 3 years ago, you'd have almost heard of NO ONE in Hong Kong talks about having a vacation in Okinawa; now it is one of the most popular destination for Hong Kongers.

YLWbased
 
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RWA380
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:41 am

Quoting afterburner (Reply 8):
If Hawaii is so special,

It is .... more magical than any other place I've been on five continents .... But you need to know where to go. There are beaches on Lanai that only the locals know, where two hammocks swing permanently in the fantastic tradewinds that blow between Lanai and Molokai. The beaches have no footprints at all, we found big shells just laying on the beach. You need a 4x4 to get there, but there are still places in Hawaii you can be totally lost with a fantastic beach all to yourself for hours. Ask George Lopez, he has a fantastic property over there. Waikiki is in Hawaii but not the real Hawaiian experience. If one goes to these Islands, take your time and find the beautiful places, not always on the tourist maps.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 12):
Hawaii is once-in-a-life-time destination,

Unless you actually fall in love with the Islands then you do what you can to go back as often as you can. For me that's 30+ times so far. The people make it special, the natural beauty is remarkable, and the weather is divine.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 35):
With the rare exception of an occasional cruise to/from the U.S. West Coast, not since about 1961 when Matson discontinued service on the Lurline, Matsonia, Monterrey, and Mariposa.

When NCL took over the Inter Island sailing from America-Hawaii cruises (Independence and Constitution) they had regularly scheduled cruises from the west coast to Hawaii. The long overwater sections with no stops became rather unpopular and NCL was promoting a myriad of huge discounts to fill cabins, shortly after that, NCLwent to just the Inter Island 3/4/7 day cruises and dropped the S.F. or L.A. departure points.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8971
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RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:14 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 48):
This is largely becoz you are around a Middle Class crowd in Hong Kong, and how many of those trips were for Business or were one of those mileage flights (non rev), I beat close to half of them were.

It is extremely easy to accumate enough mileage in Hong Kong for tickets on a 12+ hrs flight by simply using credit cards, I've personally racked up 180,000 points in 2 years by applying 6 different credit cards, spend enough to take advantage of the welcoming points and cancel the card. By doing so, I can reapply for the exact same card 18 months later and enjoy the same welcoming benefit, I know most of my friends are doing the same for their trips to Europe and Australia, and this isn't exactly the type of travelers that any airlines are looking for.

According to a survey done by the Hong Kong Family Warefare Society in 2012, 90% of Hong Kong's population under the age of 16 have not traveled on a plane, while the number decreases to 50% for 16-25 and further decreases to 43% for 26-45 and 41% for 46 yo+.

Which means out of the 7.2 million people in Hong Kong (6.3 actual resident), 2.6 million of us would have never step foot into an aircraft in their entire life, while there are still 3.7 million people left, but how many of that people could afford to buy a ticket themselves (Not non-rev, not mileage, not steep discount fare which makes no profit for the airline)?

Leisure route provides very thin margin for airlines and long haul leisure routes are very hard to materializes unless the destination is really popular among local, which in this case, Hawaii isn't one of those.


The only way for this to happen is that for some reason the Tourism Office of Hawaii decided to do a massive promotion in Hong Kong, when I say massive, I mean covering everywhere massive which costs more than a few million bucks massive. Okinawa did that once, and it was utterly successful. They put Ads on Tram, Bus, MTR, Trains, Airport, Every Major Newspaper and Magazine, Editorial everyweek for a year, free tickets, lucky draw, the entire campaign end up costing the Okinawa government about 4.8 million USD, but it was a rather successful one. 3 years ago, you'd have almost heard of NO ONE in Hong Kong talks about having a vacation in Okinawa; now it is one of the most popular destination for Hong Kongers.

YLWbased

A lot of people in Hong Kong pay for their own tickets. Hong Kong people travel a lot for leisure and business but mostly middle or upper class.

I agree. The wealth distribution/class difference is very wide. We have the highest number of super rich/high income people per capita and a lot of them are making the most on earth. But we also have a lot of people who need social welfare help and are in poverty.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 49):
It is .... more magical than any other place I've been on five continents .... But you need to know where to go. There are beaches on Lanai that only the locals know, where two hammocks swing permanently in the fantastic tradewinds that blow between Lanai and Molokai. The beaches have no footprints at all, we found big shells just laying on the beach. You need a 4x4 to get there, but there are still places in Hawaii you can be totally lost with a fantastic beach all to yourself for hours. Ask George Lopez, he has a fantastic property over there. Waikiki is in Hawaii but not the real Hawaiian experience. If one goes to these Islands, take your time and find the beautiful places, not always on the tourist maps.

Any beaches you recommend?
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1467
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 49):
There are beaches on Lanai that only the locals know, where two hammocks swing permanently in the fantastic tradewinds that blow between Lanai and Molokai. The beaches have no footprints at all, we found big shells just laying on the beach. You need a 4x4 to get there, but there are still places in Hawaii you can be totally lost with a fantastic beach all to yourself for hours. Ask George Lopez, he has a fantastic property over there. Waikiki is in Hawaii but not the real Hawaiian experience. If one goes to these Islands, take your time and find the beautiful places, not always on the tourist maps.

There are many beaches like those in South-East Asia. Even Hollywood celebrities love them. Late Paul Walker had a house in Mentawai island in West Sumatra. Chris Hemsworth (Thor) got married in Sumba island, East Nusa Tenggara.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 49):
Quoting afterburner (Reply 12):
Hawaii is once-in-a-life-time destination,

Unless you actually fall in love with the Islands then you do what you can to go back as often as you can. For me that's 30+ times so far. The people make it special, the natural beauty is remarkable, and the weather is divine.

If you love Hawaii, fine. However, we're talking about Hong Kongers (and other East Asians) here. Sure some of them do (or will) love Hawaii. But, how many?
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6203
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:42 am

I personally love Hawaii. All those other destinations are nice too but nothing is quite like Hawaii. You have an English speaking first-world place where you can rent a car, do a host of things in addition to the beach.

Those other places are great when you stay in a resort then the moment you step out of it you are in slummy-type areas which are not attractive. In Hawaii I can rent a car, drive around, speak english, visit proper shops with nice stuff for sale, but nice food at the supermarket and cook it at the villa I've rented. No other destination within a few hours flight of HKG offers that.

That said, I do not represent the majority of the HKG population and my holiday budget is probably different to many as well.
 
Carfield
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: Any Chance Of A HKG-HNL-HKG Service?

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:51 am

Guam is beginning to work for HK people, as UA has recently added a fourth weekly flight. But let me remind everyone that Guam is visa-free for HK SAR passport holders. There have been talks about lifting the US visa requirement for HK SAR passport holders, and if that becomes reality, like Taiwan, Honolulu to Hong Kong might work. Getting a US visa is not necessarily the easiest thing to do for HK people, so if people are going through the troubles, they most likely head straight to the Mainland to visit family and friends concentrated in California and New York. HA began to fly to TPE after the visa requirement is lifted for TW citizens.

About HNL-HKG, I remembered flying the Singapore Airlines Big Top from SFO to HKG via HNL, and I still had that Raffles Class menu somewhere in my storage.

Carfield

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