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Liverpoola380
Topic Author
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American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:33 pm

Can somebody please clairfy if American Airlines plan to use door 2 for boarding on their new 321's.

I did read it in a forum on here a while back but looking at the only image in the database it door 2 does not look like a full size door.

Any information would be great.
 
ECAMActions
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:35 pm

They will and it's dumb, I give it 6 months before the engine damage renders this idea worthless.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 1):
They will and it's dumb, I give it 6 months before the engine damage renders this idea worthless.

Let's see if this idea still stands with US Airways management in charge. US' company policy prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on the A321.
 
modesto2
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting Liverpoola380 (Thread starter):
Can somebody please clairfy if American Airlines plan to use door 2 for boarding on their new 321's.

IIRC, they advertised this plan in much of their A321 premium transcon service promotions.
 
hoons90
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:18 pm

Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just need to be careful and perhaps get someone else to watch the engine while the jetbridge pulls in.
 
WNCrew
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting Liverpoola380 (Thread starter):
I did read it in a forum on here a while back but looking at the only image in the database it door 2 does not look like a full size door.

Speaking to this point, is there an option for a larger 2L door on the A321?
 
lostsound
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 1):
They will and it's dumb, I give it 6 months before the engine damage renders this idea worthless.

A321s have been using the 2L door for years successfully, it is a very low risk operation. In terms of customer quality loading passengers through the 2L door is a smart move. It helps distinguish the 3 class product better and will assist in making the aircraft seem more premium. Making the planes seem premium is near the top of AAs list when it comes to JFK-LAX and SFO.
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:57 pm

AA will use the L2 door on the 321s... It is a commitment AA has made to its FIrst Class passengers, so they wont have a bunch of traffic passing through. It will provide for a much more private experience, especially for the Hollywood crowd on the LAXJFK run.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 9):
AA will use the L2 door on the 321s... It is a commitment AA has made to its FIrst Class passengers, so they wont have a bunch of traffic passing through. It will provide for a much more private experience, especially for the Hollywood crowd on the LAXJFK run.

That was AA's plan prior to the merger, however, let's see if US' management sticks to this plan, since US formally prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on its A321s.
 
arielwar
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:05 pm

Yea they will only use it on the A321t
 
tonystan
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Aer Lingus often used doors 2 for many years before removing its Door 2 galley unit and BMI similarly used it until it's latter days.
 
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Stitch
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 10):
That was AA's plan prior to the merger, however, let's see if US' management sticks to this plan, since US formally prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on its A321s.

They could always make an exception just for the three-class A321-200s and continue boarding two-class birds via Door 1L.
 
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N776AU
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
US' company policy prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on the A321.

What kind of stupid rule prevents this from happening?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 14):
What kind of stupid rule prevents this from happening?

It is due to the 2L door being too close to the port engine. US isn't the only airline who doesn't board their A321s from 2L. It makes me wonder if DL will use the 2L door on their A321s.
 
skybird77
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
They could always make an exception just for the three-class A321-200s and continue boarding two-class birds via Door 1L.

Agreed. Most likely what will happen. As JoePatroni707 mentioned above, AA will want to provide a more private experience for their first class customers.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 16):
Agreed. Most likely what will happen. As JoePatroni707 mentioned above, AA will want to provide a more private experience for their first class customers.

If it's important AA will make it work. US doesn't do it because they don't need to. I suspect we'll see 2L be the preferred method eventually after agents get practice. As others point out, it's doable.
 
photoshooter
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 6):
Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just need to be careful and perhaps get someone else to watch the engine while the jetbridge pulls in.

Never seen LH doing that.... They usually board via 1L, not 2L.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Let's see if this idea still stands with US Airways management in charge. US' company policy prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on the A321.

True.

I've flown on quite a few of USAirway's 90 321s, and ingress/egress is always from door 1L.
 
hoons90
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:28 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 18):
Never seen LH doing that.... They usually board via 1L, not 2L.

I believe it's done at MUC, not sure about other airports. Perhaps attributed to different jetbridge designs?
 
UALWN
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 18):
Never seen LH doing that.... They usually board via 1L, not 2L.

I've boarded many LH's 321s through door 2L.
 
irregking
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:51 pm

RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 6):

Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just need to be careful and perhaps get someone else to watch the engine while the jetbridge pulls in.

Not any more but we used to, therefore partially   

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 18):
Never seen LH doing that.... They usually board via 1L, not 2L.

You might have never seen that, but we did. Now we don't. Therefore partially   

Quoting tonystan (Reply 12):
Aer Lingus often used doors 2 for many years before removing its Door 2 galley unit and BMI similarly used it until it's latter days.

  

We (LH) often boarded our 321's through 2L until the galley at 2L was removed.
We continued boarding the 321's through 2L but the procedure quickly changed because many passengers bumped into the backrest of row 9ABC during boarding, as it is slightly interfering with the space around 2L.
The culprits/bumpers complained about that, as well as passengers who were already sat in 9ABC.
Now we only board 321's through 1L.
At remote (bus boarding) positions we board through 1L and 4L
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
It makes me wonder if DL will use the 2L door on their A321s.

Or jetBlue for that matter on the A321s with the premium class.
 
bavair
Posts: 112
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 18):
Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 6):Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just need to be careful and perhaps get someone else to watch the engine while the jetbridge pulls in.
Never seen LH doing that.... They usually board via 1L, not 2L.

Lately I have mostly seen boarding from 1L as well (change in cabin config with the NEK perhaps), however in the past they definitely used 2L as well as both 1L and 2L with 2 jetways at times in MUC. I have seen a picture of this somewhere in the DB as well but couldn't find it just now. Maybe someone else still has the link.
 
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tjcab
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Let's see if this idea still stands with US Airways management in charge. US' company policy prohibits the use of the 2L door for boarding on the A321.

I swear a few years back I boarded a US Airways A321 from PHL to LAX from 2L. Also I have don this on Lufthansa from MUC to FRA.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:02 am

Quoting tjcab (Reply 25):
I swear a few years back I boarded a US Airways A321 from PHL to LAX from 2L.

I did that route on November 16th, and we boarded through 1L at gate A13.
 
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N62NA
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:26 am

Quoting lostsound (Reply 8):
It helps distinguish the 3 class product better and will assist in making the aircraft seem more premium. Making the planes seem premium is near the top of AAs list when it comes to JFK-LAX and SFO.

I agree, it will make it a more premium experience.

It's funny though that on the 762 (which the A321 is replacing) everyone had to walk through F and J as there isn't a door located just in front of the wing. So.... if for some reason 2L on the A321 doesn't work out, they'll just be going back to what they had for the past 20 years or so.
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:23 am

On LH A321 boarding. Lest we forget...

... Airbus basically designed A321 for LH 20 years ago. The location of door 2 could obviously be farther from engine with a clean sheet design (involving other tradeoffs of course). But the belief in "German precision" won out, and LH thought it could make the boarding work. Reality however was different--I don't think they boarded from door 2 on a regular basis other than at hubs (FRA/MUC), and I am not sure what the situation is now. Any other airline considering A321 would not trust its workforce to push jetbridges by with a 2 feet clearance from the engine and avoid accidents. It really is a nonstarter, and as others noted, I can't see US management (who, unlike AA, had experience with the type) going for it.
 
EL-AL
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 8:29 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 6):
Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just need to be careful and perhaps get someone else to watch the engine while the jetbridge pulls in.

Very true - I took it while boarding LH686 in FRA last june:
http://imageshack.us/a/img593/7301/fwji.jpg
 
liftsifter
Posts: 495
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:30 am

I've been on a bridge where an American 77W was pulling up and the bridge wasn't left in the proper position, the huge GE90 came right under the under structure of the bridge entrance and was only half a foot from hitting the bridge, until (miraculously) the plane hit the marker. The bridge operator was so nervous after the incident that he could barely pull the bridge to the door.

Certainly wouldn't want to be an operator working just a few feet from the core of the aeroplane.
 
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tjcab
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:15 am

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 30):

Certainly wouldn't want to be an operator working just a few feet from the core of the aeroplane.

Certainly not. Do they not have preset positions? Also, could radar (like my car parking sensors) be of some use? perhaps stopping the system in an impending collision?

I wonder if there have been any incidents at AMS
 
hoons90
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting tjcab (Reply 31):
Certainly not. Do they not have preset positions? Also, could radar (like my car parking sensors) be of some use? perhaps stopping the system in an impending collision?

Out of the jetbridges that I've driven, the newer ones at my airport (ThyssenKrupp) have presets for aircraft, but they're only height presets. You still have to drive it to the door. The only type of sensors I know of are the swing limits that prevent the jetbridge from traveling too far to the side, as well as the auto-level wheel that extends to the fuselage of the aircraft that adjusts the height of the jetbridge as the aircraft sinks/rises as people embark/disembark. Sorry, it's been a few years so my memory is a bit faded.

You're always supposed to return the jetbridge wheel to the white circle on the ramp after the aircraft pulls out, guess that in liftsifter's story above, nobody did!
 
Sinlock
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting N776AU (Reply 12):
What kind of stupid rule prevents this from happening?

It depends on the modal and configuration of the jetway. But the jetway can be as close as 4 feet from the top of the #1 engine inlet. Had a Gate Agent some time ago put the jet way on the L2 the day there was an equipment downgrade from a 757.

At US we are in the process of requiring an Gate agent to be in the cab of the jetway during all 321 boarding operations due to the high number of damages from auto-leveler malfunctions. The 321 can move nearly 18 inches during loading/fueling ops.
 
flyboy80
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:33 pm

Isn't the 2L door on the A321 a good quarter smaller than the 1L door? It will be like boarding a SAAB 340!
 
DUSint
Posts: 190
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 32):
Isn't the 2L door on the A321 a good quarter smaller than the 1L door? It will be like boarding a SAAB 340!

AFAIK there are options of different door-sizes for L2 offered by Airbus.
 
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jmw99ttu
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:08 pm

How does parking a jetbridge at 2L on an A321 compare to parking one at 2L on a 757? I was a gate agent for DL at DFW back in the 90s. I definitely sweated a little the first few times I had to park a jetbridge at 2L on a 757.
 
wn676
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 31):
At US we are in the process of requiring an Gate agent to be in the cab of the jetway during all 321 boarding operations due to the high number of damages from auto-leveler malfunctions. The 321 can move nearly 18 inches during loading/fueling ops.

It sure can. You should see those things from the ramp level during offloading. I've had the water panel come down to my eye level. There are times where I wonder if those planes need a tail stand.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 35):
It sure can. You should see those things from the ramp level during offloading. I've had the water panel come down to my eye level. There are times where I wonder if those planes need a tail stand.

Correct. It is amazing how much that airplane can move in a short period of time.

It will be very interesting to see if AA really does continue to board through 2L after the merger. With how damage conscious US is, I would be very surprised if this practice continued. Perhaps specially modified gates, or extra agents just for the JFK/LAX, JFK/SFO routes and then boarding through 1L everywhere else?

US is so specific about meeting 1L for the 321 that they placed '321' decals near both forward doors as a visual reminder for agents to meet the 1L door (so as not to confuse it w/ a 757)

There is NO room for error if you meet the 2L on the 321. With 90 plus in service and many more on the way, there is a lot of engine damage in the 321's future if this is the case.
 
wn676
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 36):
It will be very interesting to see if AA really does continue to board through 2L after the merger. With how damage conscious US is, I would be very surprised if this practice continued. Perhaps specially modified gates, or extra agents just for the JFK/LAX, JFK/SFO routes and then boarding through 1L everywhere else?

I think this will be the case. It would be much easier to focus exclusively on those stations for extra training/jetway mods/different procedures than having to do it systemwide.
 
Ditzyboy
Posts: 299
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting DUSint (Reply 33):
AFAIK there are options of different door-sizes for L2 offered by Airbus.

I believe the difference is whether or not there is overhead bins installed at the door location. The actual dimensions of the door do not change - only the useable size of the opening.

Does anyone know if the slide remains installed in the fuselage, or is it moved to the door when 2L is used as a larger exit?
 
Liverpoola380
Topic Author
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:35 pm

How many incidents of damage has their been to US 321's on 2L door ops?
 
yakima
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:58 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 4):
Lufthansa uses 2L to board their A321s

I know I flew a LH A321 once and went to have a look at the photo. We disembarked through 1L using stairs (NAP), but they allowed the passengers to stand around under the wing and next to the engine. Is that not also dangerous? Whenever I board MN at JNB or GRJ using stairs, they never ever allow one to pass underneath the wing at all.
 
tommy1808
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 37):
I think this will be the case. It would be much easier to focus exclusively on those stations for extra training/jetway mods/different procedures than having to do it systemwide.

I would assume that same people that are trusted to move the jetbridge to within an inch of the fuselage really just need some extra procedure training to safely move a jetbridge in about two feet distance of the engine. Worst case scenario might be an extra ground personnel as "engine guard".

best regards
Thomas
 
questions
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 26):
Any other airline considering A321 would not trust its workforce to push jetbridges by with a 2 feet clearance from the engine and avoid accidents.
Quoting jmw99ttu (Reply 34):
How does parking a jetbridge at 2L on an A321 compare to parking one at 2L on a 757?

I had the same question. How much greater is the clearance for a 757?

Also, will/could AA use dedicated gates at JFK/LAX/SFO for the A321? Could there be custom designed jet bridges to mitigate any risk of damage?

[Edited 2013-12-06 07:05:46]
 
wn676
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:29 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 41):
I would assume that same people that are trusted to move the jetbridge to within an inch of the fuselage really just need some extra procedure training to safely move a jetbridge in about two feet distance of the engine. Worst case scenario might be an extra ground personnel as "engine guard".

And yet they aren't trusted to move the jetway within feet of the engine, evidenced by current procedure. When you have two types of identical aircraft that will appear to use two different doors, one which is a bit of a magnet for damage, you can bet there's going to be differences training.
 
PHX787
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:04 am

US uses L1 for boarding so I highly doubt they'll use L2.
 
hooverman
Posts: 337
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RE: American 321 Boarding

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:05 pm

I don't understand the fuzz. Why would a company risk damage to their planes if they where not confident it could be done.
 
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Finn350
Posts: 1601
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 26):
Airbus basically designed A321 for LH 20 years ago. The location of door 2 could obviously be farther from engine with a clean sheet design (involving other tradeoffs of course). But the belief in "German precision" won out, and LH thought it could make the boarding work. Reality however was different--I don't think they boarded from door 2 on a regular basis other than at hubs (FRA/MUC), and I am not sure what the situation is now. Any other airline considering A321 would not trust its workforce to push jetbridges by with a 2 feet clearance from the engine and avoid accidents. It really is a nonstarter, and as others noted, I can't see US management (who, unlike AA, had experience with the type) going for it.

On the other hand, we are most likely talking about just 4 dedicated gates (2 x JFK, LAX and SFO), and AA can have dedicated gate personnel trained for the two-door boarding at these gates.

The F product itself will be really premium, as there will be max 10 passengers boarding through 1L door.
 
JoePatroni707
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:58 pm

RE: American 321 Boarding

Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:47 pm

The only gate @ SFO that will NOT handle the 321 is gate 58A, all others will be able to handle th 321 at door 2L. Additionally all agents will be trained to meet at 2L, just as in the 757.
 
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Finn350
Posts: 1601
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 47):
The only gate @ SFO that will NOT handle the 321 is gate 58A, all others will be able to handle th 321 at door 2L. Additionally all agents will be trained to meet at 2L, just as in the 757.

Thanks for the info. I misunderstood that they were going to use 2 jetbridges as opposed to boarding through door 2L.
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: American 321 Boarding

Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 38):
I believe the difference is whether or not there is overhead bins installed at the door location. The actual dimensions of the door do not change - only the useable size of the opening.

IIRC -- US 321s have continuous bins over 2R but no bins at all over 2L. Also, there is a rank of 2 chairs and a backward-facing FA seat obstructing 2R.

That's row 10 as I recall, and I've sat on both sides.

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