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Max Q
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US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:32 am

These 'mergers' resulted in the eventual and total disappearance of the acquired companies route systems and anything else they had to offer.


Anyone have more examples ?
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aklrno
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:53 am

how about Reno Air? I think AA bought it to get gates at a few airports. The route system sank without a trace. I miss QQ.
 
Max Q
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:18 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 1):
how about Reno Air? I think AA bought it to get gates at a few airports. The route system sank without a trace. I miss QQ.

Good example.


How about Muse Air, anyone remember them ?!
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:29 am

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
Anyone have more examples ?

Republic and Hughes Airwest, In less than 5 years the RW network was essentially gone,
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
727LOVER
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:02 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin



Need I say more?
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
Photo © George W. Hamlin

Need I say more?

PA and National were almost a unique case as PA didn't have domestic operations at the time. Let not forget that when te auction for National began the stock was about $16/share and at the merger Pan AM paid $ 50/share. Large amounts of National stock were owned by a man named Frank Lorenzo who would go on the become infamous in the US airline industry. The forty millions dollars Lorenzo took with him helped his small Texas Air buy Continetal, Bankrupt it and you know the rest ...
 
727LOVER
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
PA didn't have domestic operations at the time

So when they bought National, why did they immediately start tearing down National's route structure?
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):
So when they bought National, why did they immediately start tearing down National's route structure?

Because it was a JetBlue type route structure that (surprise) didn't gel with their route network.

And then, the real kick in the behind to Pan Am came just a short while later when deregulation happened and any airline could fly any route.

They ended up paying to much for an airline they didn't really want and in the end, didn't need.

It was a big part of them going under.
 
seatback
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
These 'mergers' resulted in the eventual and total disappearance of the acquired companies route systems and anything else they had to offer.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
How about Muse Air, anyone remember them ?!

Technically, TransStar. That's one acquisition that was clearly intended to remove a competitor.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 3):
Republic and Hughes Airwest, In less than 5 years the RW network was essentially gone,

and to think Delta could have a hub today in Phoenix.

On another note, I find it ironic that in a year from now, we'll have PSA people flying right along with Air Cal people. Funny how things work out in this industry if you hang around awhile.
 
brilondon
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):
So when they bought National, why did they immediately start tearing down National's route structure?

It did not work with their system. This was a one of a number of reasons that PA went bankrupt. The deregulation in its self did not doom PA but their inability to adapt to the new climate of deregulation. It can be argued that no U.S. based airline ever did adapt to the new environment. All have had a bankruptcy in their past and some are still in trouble. You go back to the day deregulation occurred and look at the airlines that were in existence and everyone has either suffered though a bankruptcy, been bought out or just shut down altogether. Once an airline starts down the path of changing their operations to save money because they are losing money it seems from history that they eventually either merge, get bought out, or just disappear.
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 8):
On another note, I find it ironic that in a year from now, we'll have PSA people flying right along with Air Cal people. Funny how things work out in this industry if you hang around awhile.

WOW--I am just now realizing this! Very ironic indeed! These were both great little airlines, especially PSA. USAir completely botched that acquisition and Southwest moved right in and conquered!
 
seatback
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 10):
WOW--I am just now realizing this! Very ironic indeed! These were both great little airlines, especially PSA. USAir completely botched that acquisition and Southwest moved right in and conquered!

..and 20 years from now, we may see AA people flying right along next to UA people! 
 
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
Anyone have more examples ?

It seems WN/FL is going down that path, with the added bonus of it providing DL a nice 717 fleet to use to drive the remaining FL routes out of WN's network.
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Sadly, we may soon talk about Southwest and AirTran in the same light.
 
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:23 pm

Don't forget, North Central and Southern that formed Republic #1, and Ozark that was taken over by TWA. So many small carriers have come and gone plus the new ones like Midway, Air Florida, ATA, Aloha just to name a few.
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727LOVER
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 14):

Not sure I understand.......the thread is about POINTLESS mergers, where the aquired company'sroute network is destroyed. That's not the case with the carriers you listed.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 15):
Not sure I understand.......the thread is about POINTLESS mergers, where the aquired company'sroute network is destroyed. That's not the case with the carriers you listed.
Quoting sunking737 (Reply 14):
Southern

The demise of DL's MEM hub is an indication that Southern's system is gone.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 14):
Ozark that was taken over by TWA

OZ/TW's old STL hub is no longer with AA.

So , what's wrong about Sunking's comments?

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 14):
Midway, Air Florida, ATA, Aloha just to name a few.

Unfortunately, these airlines just died and couldn't adapt to the current airline industry pressures. Some of the older ones that I miss are Jet America, Wien Air Alaska, Sunworld, Braniff, Far West and Mark Air...just to name a few.
 
Cody
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:43 pm

How about Midway's acquisition of Air Florida? Air Florida's route system spanned the Eastern U.S., Caribbean, Central America and Europe. At one point they operated five DC-10's, twenty-three 737's, five DC-9's and five 727-200's.

By the time Midway merged them into their operation, the only thing remaining was Midway's new service to Florida from Chicago and a few other Midwest cities, one flight a day from MIA to STT and STX, and Air Florida's former route from DCA to White Plains.

The only thing fleet-wise Midway gained from the Air Florida acquisition was seven 737-200's.
 
ckfred
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:50 pm

AA's merger with Air Cal made sense. It's presence on the West Coast was mostly traffic going to points east of the Rockies, such as DFW, ORD, BOS, and JFK.

What caused the Air Cal system to disappear was WN. WN came in and drove AA (Air Cal), US (PSA), and NW (what was left of Hughes Air West) out of the north-south routes on the West Coast. Most of DL's point-to-point flying on the West Coast (its own and WA routes) disappeared, leaving only hub operations at SLC.

Only UA decided to fight WN, starting Shuttle by United. That led Herb Kelleher to declare war on UA and start long-haul flying, especially as the 737-700s started to arrive.

Reno Air made sense, because it was doing very well in terms of traffic out of San Jose, the heart of Sillicon Valley. But, when the tech and dot.com sectors tanked in early 2000, the QQ route system stopped making sense. Up until the end of Q1 2000, there were a lot of tech people traveling because of Y2K. Then, you had the dot.com people flush with IPO money flying a lot. They were even paying walk-up fares for First. When the stock market crashed in April, the dot.coms started to struggle, since it was clear that many hadn't made money and might never make money.

TWA made sense for a number of reasons. First, the summer of 2000 was one of the stormiest in Chicago. It seemed that The Weather Channel was running watch and warning crawlers almost every afternoon and evening. Even in good weather, ORD was having delays.

With TWA, AA had another Midwest hub only 300 miles for ORD. That made changing connections far easier than rerouting traffic through DFW. Even if you were O&D ORD, having an alternative way out, via STL made sense.

Remember that ORD didn't open the third east-west runway until 2008. Back in 2000, the City didn't even have a date for starting construction, because the suburbs were all suing to stop modernization, and Sen. Peter Fitzgerald was doing his best on Capitol Hill to push Peotone as the future of Chicago air travel.

Second, TWA had a lot of European route authorities. Because AA had been primarily a domestic carrier before deregulation, it was taking time for it to build a European route structure, either bidding on new authorities, or buying existing ones from other carriers, as AA had done with most of TWA's authorities to LHR. In merging with TWA, AA got an incredible amount of route authorities.

Again, AA didn't forsee that the EU would become the sole European keeper of route authorities, and that it would eventually negotatiate an open skies agreement with the U.S.

Third, if the US-UA merger had gone through, AA would have swapped TWA's 757s (with P&W engines) for US's 757s (with RR engines). Additionally, AA would have leased a number of the F100s to the new carrier, DC Air, which would have been owned by Robert Johnson, the founder of BET. Then, AA would have kept the TWA 717s, and probably taken a fair number of those still on Boeing's order book.

All of that was done in by 9/11.
 
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 8):
On another note, I find it ironic that in a year from now, we'll have PSA people flying right along with Air Cal people. Funny how things work out in this industry if you hang around awhile.

And for several years there have been Western Airlines people flying alongside Hughes Airwest people.  
 
727LOVER
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:02 pm

The OP stated:

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):



These 'mergers' resulted in the eventual and total disappearance of the acquired companies route systems and anything else they had to offer.

So when it is stated:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
The demise of DL's MEM hub is an indication that Southern's system is gone.

.....and it lasted for over 30 years....plus....it wasn't the original merger that doomed the route structure

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
OZ/TW's old STL hub is no longer with AA.

So , what's wrong about Sunking's comments?

....again, it wasn't the TW/OZ merger that resulted in the hub being gone.
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N62NA
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
And then, the real kick in the behind to Pan Am came just a short while later when deregulation happened and any airline could fly any route.

Deregulation was in 1978, yes? PA / NA was in 1980. I agree with your other statements.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13):
Sadly, we may soon talk about Southwest and AirTran in the same light.

Yes, EYW was just announced as a route being dropped (former AirTran route).
 
wedgetail737
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:36 pm

Wasn't the merger between DL and WA an amicable one? I think WA was on its last strings when DL took them over. On the other side of the coin, the DL/NW merger was not pretty...kind of like the AA/TW merger. These mergers may have looked good at the corporate-level, but not with the people who see the day-to-day ops of the airlines...lots of employee and union strife. Even the QQ/AA merger was pretty nasty.
 
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
What caused the Air Cal system to disappear was WN. WN came in and drove AA (Air Cal), US (PSA), and NW (what was left of Hughes Air West) out of the north-south routes on the West Coast. Most of DL's point-to-point flying on the West Coast (its own and WA routes) disappeared, leaving only hub operations at SLC.

At the time, right after Grinstein took over WA, they were planning on leaving LA as the HQ and moving it to SLC and basing EVERYTHING out of SLC, with O&D + Mexico/Hawaii routes out of LAX only.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 22):
Wasn't the merger between DL and WA an amicable one? I think WA was on its last strings when DL took them over.

WA had just become profitable again with the switch to the SLC hub mentality, when the DL deal came about.
 
klkla
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:27 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 22):
On the other side of the coin, the DL/NW merger was not pretty...kind of like the AA/TW merger.

In what way? NW's two largest hubs are still in operation and a vital part of the merged airline. Nothing is left of TW to speak of.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13):
Sadly, we may soon talk about Southwest and AirTran in the same light.

That merger was an atrocity to the airline industry. I wish I worked for the DoJ; I would not have wasted a second shooting that one down. There's tons of overlap at BWI and pretty much all of Florida as far as WN and FL were concerned. WN and FL operated large bases at BWI, MCO, FLL, TPA, etc... The only thing they gained out of that was ATL, and they're pretty much gutting that...

I never understood why USAir dismantled PSA's network over the years. USAir was always strong in the eastern US and PSA had their large network out of SAN and LAX. I remember both being maintained as focus cities for US in the '90s, but both eventually went away. Had US kept that network in place, I think they could've been a stronger airline today...
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:39 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):

De-regulation happened in 1978, so why did PAA still go through with taking National?

Also, way back when around 1967 Eastern absorbed a small propeller airline called Macky and, it took a while but we all know what happened to Eastern.   
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wedgetail737
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 24):
In what way? NW's two largest hubs are still in operation and a vital part of the merged airline. Nothing is left of TW to speak of.

Just in my travels, I've heard NW flight attendants grumble about DL. Likewise, I've seen TW flight attendance and TW gate agents talk about seniority issues.
 
m11stephen
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:52 am

Midwest Airlines and Frontier Airlines has got be a good example of this.

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747buff
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 25):

I never understood why USAir dismantled PSA's network over the years. USAir was always strong in the eastern US and PSA had their large network out of SAN and LAX. I remember both being maintained as focus cities for US in the '90s, but both eventually went away. Had US kept that network in place, I think they could've been a stronger airline today...

I remember that sometime in the 90s, US tried and failed to set up a hub in MCI. Was this a botched attempt to link East and West?

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):

At the time, right after Grinstein took over WA, they were planning on leaving LA as the HQ and moving it to SLC and basing EVERYTHING out of SLC, with O&D + Mexico/Hawaii routes out of LAX only.

Wow, was that really the case? It certainly would've made sense, because while WA still had quite a presence at LAX, it seemed tiny compared to SLC. In fact I think their only LAX flights other than Hawaii and Mexico were:
PHX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, PDX, YVR, and of course SLC. I think OKC, YYC, and FAT were served too but I don't have my timetables handy at the moment.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):

WA had just become profitable again with the switch to the SLC hub mentality, when the DL deal came about.

Exactly why DL wanted them. WA had a strong presence in the West (not just on the coast ala PSA/AirCal, but in the Rockies and Southwest, as well as Alaska and Hawaii), which made them the perfect merger partner for lots of airlines. DL just happened to get to them first. DL did cut back a good portion of the old WA network but it is still strong with the SLC hub and the post-NW focus on LAX.

Regarding AirCal and PSA, rumor has it that US really wanted AirCal due to fleet compatibility but AA beat them to the
punch. Would US have done better in the West than they did with PS? It's a matter of speculation.
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doulasc
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:30 am

what I think would have been a good merger if National Airlines bought Texas International and not vice versa.Do you think Frank Lorenzo would take the lower hand and be the buyee? Is Frank Lorenzo retired,Born in 1940 that would make him 73 now.
 
Max Q
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:15 am

Quoting doulasc (Reply 30):


what I think would have been a good merger if National Airlines bought Texas International and not vice versa.Do you think Frank Lorenzo would take the lower hand and be the buyee? Is Frank Lorenzo retired,Born in 1940 that would make him 73 now.

Lorenzo was in business for only one entity, himself.
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N1120A
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 8):
On another note, I find it ironic that in a year from now, we'll have PSA people flying right along with Air Cal people. Funny how things work out in this industry if you hang around awhile.

Maybe as FAs. A lot of the pilots are hitting mandatory retirement.

Incidentally - Sully was a PSA pilot.

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 10):
These were both great little airlines, especially PSA. USAir completely botched that acquisition and Southwest moved right in and conquered!

Yep. PSA's network, in particular, was excellent. Of course, US has always been deeply flawed.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
What caused the Air Cal system to disappear was WN. WN came in and drove AA (Air Cal), US (PSA), and NW (what was left of Hughes Air West) out of the north-south routes on the West Coast. Most of DL's point-to-point flying on the West Coast (its own and WA routes) disappeared, leaving only hub operations at SLC.

Uh, no. Neither AA nor US maintained the networks they should have, which allowed WN to move in and take market share. If they had kept running the frequency and diversity of airport that PSA and Air Cal, then later Southwest, did, they would have kept things going strong.

All one has to do is look at OAK, SJC and SMF to see where the legacies got stupid.
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brilondon
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Uh, no. Neither AA nor US maintained the networks they should have, which allowed WN to move in and take market share. If they had kept running the frequency and diversity of airport that PSA and Air Cal, then later Southwest, did, they would have kept things going strong.

All one has to do is look at OAK, SJC and SMF to see where the legacies got stupid.

Maybe the legacies got smart and wanted to stop losing money on routes that could be handled by the regional airlines? The airlines are not in the business to lose money so if you are insinuating that legacies are stupid is probably not a well thought out statement.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
WesternA318
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Quoting 747buff (Reply 29):
Wow, was that really the case? It certainly would've made sense, because while WA still had quite a presence at LAX, it seemed tiny compared to SLC. In fact I think their only LAX flights other than Hawaii and Mexico were:
PHX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, PDX, YVR, and of course SLC. I think OKC, YYC, and FAT were served too but I don't have my timetables handy at the moment.

Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, and most of the West Coast was kept through LAX, east of PHX it became non-existant and only possible with connections through SLC.

Quoting 747buff (Reply 29):
Exactly why DL wanted them. WA had a strong presence in the West (not just on the coast ala PSA/AirCal, but in the Rockies and Southwest, as well as Alaska and Hawaii), which made them the perfect merger partner for lots of airlines. DL just happened to get to them first. DL did cut back a good portion of the old WA network but it is still strong with the SLC hub and the post-NW focus on LAX.

DL didnt get to them first. Continental, American, and even Air Florida had been trying to get at Western for about a decade or two before DL got with them.DL was initially interested in Jet America out of LGB, but Alaska beat them to it.

Quoting 747buff (Reply 29):
Regarding AirCal and PSA, rumor has it that US really wanted AirCal due to fleet compatibility but AA beat them to the
punch. Would US have done better in the West than they did with PS? It's a matter of speculation.

US got PSA in a sweetheart deal because PSA's parent company was trying to spin off the airline to keep the far more profitable oil, gas, and aircraft leasing ventures going, without the stigma of the airline hanging over them. PSA's inept and crooked management is what sold them out.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:24 pm

You're correct about the National acquistion / deregulation timing.

It is my understanding that the bidding war with Lorenzo went on from pre deregulation through 1980. In the end they ended up paying for something they didn't need.

Can anyone familiar with that time period add color to this?
 
747buff
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RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 34):

DL didnt get to them first. Continental, American, and even Air Florida had been trying to get at Western for about a decade or two before DL got with them.DL was initially interested in Jet America out of LGB, but Alaska beat them to it.

Oh yes, I was aware of the near-merger with CO and Air Florida chasing them, but I was referring to the merger-mania times of the mid-80s. I know DL was interested in Jet America too, but would that merger really have given them the presence they were seeking in the West?

Forgot to mention, I read somewhere (Hard Landing IIRC) that CO was interested in AirCal initially. There was no love lost between Frank Lorenzo and Bob Crandall, so when Crandall heard of CO's interest he swooped in and cut a deal to spite his in-state rival.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 35):

It is my understanding that the bidding war with Lorenzo went on from pre deregulation through 1980. In the end they ended up paying for something they didn't need.

Can anyone familiar with that time period add color to this?

I think it was in the late 70s but not positive. Lorenzo intially had his sights on TWA and made an offer for them (This of course before he nearly acquired them in the 80s). After TW's brass told him what to do with himself he turned his attention to National.
At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Uh, no. Neither AA nor US maintained the networks they should have, which allowed WN to move in and take market share. If they had kept running the frequency and diversity of airport that PSA and Air Cal, then later Southwest, did, they would have kept things going strong.

All one has to do is look at OAK, SJC and SMF to see where the legacies got stupid.

That may be, but WN ran US out of the old Piedmont hub at BWI. WN ran AA out of ISP. AA had flown out of ISP long before deregulation.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1294
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting 747buff (Reply 29):
In fact I think their only LAX flights other than Hawaii and Mexico were:
PHX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, PDX, YVR, and of course SLC. I think OKC, YYC, and FAT were served too but I don't have my timetables handy at the moment.

WA served SMF-LAX too, moving over from SAC in 1967 until the DL take-over.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
N747PE
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:47 pm

RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:27 pm

I think merging with American is the same as wearing a red shirt on the original Star Trek  
 
aacun
Posts: 447
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:47 am

RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:46 pm

So let me see if we can get all the airlines that now compose the new American....
Let me know if I miss one


American Airlines
TransCaribbean
Aircal
Reno
TWA
Ozark
UsAirways
America West
Mohawk
Lake Central
Allegheny
Piedmont
PSA

Missed any?
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5734
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: US Air / PSA/ AA/ Air CAL/ AA/ TWA, Pointless?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting aacun (Reply 40):


Missed any?

Empire.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL

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