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G500
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Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:42 pm

So Qatar launched Houston, then its about to launch DFW

Meanwhile no signs of them launching services to LAX, an airport with far more O&D traffic than both IAH and DFW... Why?? Even SFO has more O&D traffic than IAH & DFW

What's the reasoning behind this?? Is it the oil/gas market in IAH?? is it that DFW is AA's largest hub??

Eventually Qatar will land at LAX, most likely in 2014, but I'm surprised they chose IAH & DFW before

opinions
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:55 pm

Lemme guess...

Qatar joins oneWorld.
Then opens DOH-DFW.
DFW=oneWorld hub.

I think it's pretty easy to put one and one together...
Proudly avoiding 737 MAX since 18.11.2020.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

There is natural & steady premium traffic between TX and the ME/Golf states due to the Oil & Gas Business.
QR is making a clever Commercial decision, it is as simple as that!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
mptpa
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:35 pm

Oil center being IAH, and DFW being OneWorld hub....
 
jfk777
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:35 pm

Why do we asume California is paved with Gold for the ME3 ? Is Doha to LAX better then DFW ? AA isn't going to do much for them in Los Angeles.
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:49 pm

a lot of factors:

a) Texas offers more higher yielding J class traffic to QR's core destinations than does LAX/SFO
b) Shorter flying time versus California hence big savings on operational costs
c) DFW is a major AA hub which neither LAX nor SFO are !
d) DFW overall has far less competition from EU/Asia versus LAX/SFO
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:46 pm

LAX already has some stiff Middle East competition coming with EK and TK now serving LAX and Etihad, Saudi and apparently Royal Jordanian coming online in 2014 (maybe for RJ).
 
9w748capt
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:40 pm

Let's face it - California hasn't been the center of US commerce for years - that has gradually shifted east into the heartland. IAH and DFW are increasingly important metroplexes not just nationally but on a global scale. QR has made it abundantly clear that they plan to maximize their connectivity with oneworld. A smart decision IMO. As others have said - while AA is certainly building up LAX, there's far more competition there than at DFW. As AA's largest fortress, it's no shocker at all that DFW was announced before LAX.
 
ASA
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?  

Texas is better than California. There, I said it ... !!!   

Plenty of reasons:

1) Less competition in Texas
2) More premium $$ in Texas
3) Huge South Asia markets!!!!
4) One-world mega-hub in DFW
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:01 pm

ASA pretty much nailed it. At some point, QR will fly to LAX where AA is pretty strong but for now, its a no brainer to hook into the traffic fed through DFW and the oil/gas O/D. IAH was also a no brainer given the energy companies based in the area.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:04 pm

And in DFW it is easy to connect to so many cities in the United States, Mexico and Central and South America.
 
point2point
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 8):
1) Less competition in Texas
2) More premium $$ in Texas
3) Huge South Asia markets!!!!
4) One-world mega-hub in DFW

Reasons 1 and 4, I can agree with. As for 2 and 3, well........???

 
 
SVA402
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:15 pm

This is actually a very simple answer, and comes down to one word: Oil. I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet. The oil industry is huge in Texas and there is a huge demand for travel between 2 of the large oil areas in the world. You'll find there are quite a few flights between oil cities that would surprise you. United still flies a 737-800 from Houston to Edmonton, Alberta because they are both oil areas.
 
prosa
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Even SFO has more O&D traffic than IAH & DFW

Are you sure? The Houston and Dallas metro areas each have about 1.5 million more people than the Bay Area.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting SVA402 (Reply 12):
This is actually a very simple answer, and comes down to one word: Oil. I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet.

See the original post and replies number 2, 3, and 9.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 7):

Let's face it - California hasn't been the center of US commerce for years - that has gradually shifted east into the heartland.

California has never been the center of the U.S. economy. Biggest economy by state, sure. The weighted geographic economic center has historically been located in the North East, and has begun trending south west over time.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Because all three(ME3) want to be together.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:29 pm

I'm guessing taxes as well.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):

So Qatar launched Houston, then its about to launch DFW

Meanwhile no signs of them launching services to LAX, an airport with far more O&D traffic than both IAH and DFW... Why?? Even SFO has more O&D traffic than IAH & DFW

What's the reasoning behind this?? Is it the oil/gas market in IAH?? is it that DFW is AA's largest hub??

Eventually Qatar will land at LAX, most likely in 2014, but I'm surprised they chose IAH & DFW before

opinions

First, Houston is no mystery. Its the oil capital of this part of the world.

For DFW, the obvious answer is that they are both OneWorld hubs but it runs deeper than that. DFW-South Asia is a very large market and one of the fastest growing in the country. In addition, DFW now has the 6th largest and 4th fastest growing Subcontinent populations in the US.

Beyond that, transatlantic traffic from DFW is unusually South Asia top heavy. The ration of European:South Asia traffic in DFW is much lower than any other market in the US. What that basically means is that, while the average market in the US may send a lot more people to Europe vs. South Asia, DFW sends almost as many people from the Gulf flight feeder markets as it does to Europe. Thats very unusual in the US and comes from the lack of international tourism in Texas as well as the huge South Asian communities particularly in DFW. Given all of this, its easy to see why DFW could easily support two Gulf carriers, but struggle with European carriers.

Then you have competition. SFO and LAX are full of competition from EU carriers. They pretty much all have a presence in California. DFW and to a lesser extent IAH dont have that. The EU carriers are competing for the same subcontinent traffic, but most passengers from that region prefer a transit in the Middle East. This, plus the nature of the market (which I mentioned in the paragraph above) create an environment where QR and EK can co-exist better in DFW and IAH vs. SFO and LAX.

For California, its only a matter of time before SFO gets another Gulf carrier. SFO-India is a huge and high yielding market. The problem is that Lufthansa pretty much gets all the good stuff and Emirates takes the rest. There would be an uphill battle, but it can be done for sure. LAX should be good with two Gulf carriers, though I would imagine QR will be just around the corner.

Another thing to consider is that QR, EK, and EY have tons of planes on order and will be sending them somewhere. Plus, their costs to operate are so much lower than their European counterparts as well as the American carriers.

[Edited 2013-12-08 11:48:57]
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modesto2
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
Are you sure? The Houston and Dallas metro areas each have about 1.5 million more people than the Bay Area.

Depends how you define the area, but with the following definition, Houston and Dallas both have fewer people than the Bay Area.

Metropolitan Area Population Rank (as of July 1, 2012)

1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington
5. San Francisco Bay
6. Boston
7. Philadelphia
8. Dallas
9. Miami
10. Houston

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...politan_areas_of_the_United_States
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:36 pm

Another factor to take into consideration. I work closely with QR Cargo, they move huge amounts
of cargo out of DFW and IAH. With the QR cargo network, they move lots of high yield Oil and Gas
and computer shipments out of Texas!!
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:04 pm

We have to remember that the State of Qatar has opened a mission in Los Angeles and it is a matter of time that QR would be serving that airport. QR has plenty of 787s and 350s and380s coming online in 2014. Lax would be served.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:07 pm

New routes must follow economic growth. Texas had done better there than California has.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
What's the reasoning behind this?? Is it the oil/gas market in IAH?? is it that DFW is AA's largest hub??

It all comes down to economic growth and who needs to travel where to make that money. The LA economy is recovering, but there is already competition as already noted.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 1):
Qatar joins oneWorld.

That is secondary. AA is big enough at LAX to connect there. While there will be connections, those are connections competing against other AA connections...

Lightsaber
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
to LAX, an airport with far more O&D traffic than both IAH and DFW

I only believe in those statistics I forged myself.

People from the LAX area have had international connections far superior to what the Texans had. The Texans for ages were used to get overseas via New York. Which means that a new flight connection has a good chance to get new customers
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
AA is big enough at LAX to connect there.

Yes but to where? AA offers no strong connecting value at LAX - you're already pretty much out of United States landmass once you're there.

NS
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:16 pm

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 18):
1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington
5. San Francisco Bay
6. Boston
7. Philadelphia
8. Dallas
9. Miami
10. Houston

QR flies to 6 of these destinations by summer 2014. Only logical to for Cali or Boston next
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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Miami
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 24):
QR flies to 6 of these destinations by summer 2014

It's actually 7. JFK, ORD, MIA, DFW, IAH, IAD, PHL.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):
Yes but to where? AA offers no strong connecting value at LAX - you're already pretty much out of United States landmass once you're there.

Fresno, Sacramento, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, Phoenix, Tucson, Eugene, Honolulu, Lihue, Maui, etc., etc.
a.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:32 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 22):

Well, we've never been confined to connections in New York or Chicago, but up until 5 or so years ago everything from IAH or DFW had to go through London, Frankfurt, Paris , or Amsterdam. Now that has changed.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
HSVflier
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):

So Qatar launched Houston, then its about to launch DFW

Meanwhile no signs of them launching services to LAX, an airport with far more O&D traffic than both IAH and DFW... Why?? Even SFO has more O&D traffic than IAH & DFW

What's the reasoning behind this?? Is it the oil/gas market in IAH?? is it that DFW is AA's largest hub??

Eventually Qatar will land at LAX, most likely in 2014, but I'm surprised they chose IAH & DFW before

opinions

One word....OIL and the support companies that go with it. Also, a lot of those companies have support contracts to DOD operations in the region so no surprise really.
Flown DL, UA, CO, WN, LH, TZ, WO, AA, US, LO, HA, PX, NW, KE, AB, QR, LX, EE, 5Y
 
JAL
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:23 pm

I think it has more to do with DFW being a major OneWorld / AA hub.
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CupraIbiza
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:39 am

QR are good like that. Here in Aust they currently service MEL and PER. No SYD. I believe they state they will service SYD when they the night curfew is lifted (or loosened)
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
mham001
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:00 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
Are you sure? The Houston and Dallas metro areas each have about 1.5 million more people than the Bay Area.

Only if you were to exclude the entire South Bay as some do. This includes, among others, the largest city in the region, San Jose.
 
alfa164
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:12 am

Not just oil; QR can route traffic from the west coast (via AA) into DFW far more easily that they could route traffic from the central states through LAX; that would be long out-of-the-way.

QR can't count on O&D traffic alone from DFW (albeit it may count on more O&D out of IAH), so the natural flow of west-to-east traffic passing through Dallas from the west makes the flight possible.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 32):
QR can't count on O&D traffic alone from DFW

O&D from DFW to DOH? No way. JFK-DOH couldn't even fill a plane on O&D alone. DOH isn't a high O&D destination. However, QR could absolutely count on the DFW market with no connections on the DFW end given the extensive network to India, South Asia, and Africa.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:29 am

I think that there are a few barriers for the ME carriers on the West Coast. EK has fearlessly plunged ahead, but the market on the West Coast gets split. It's just as easy to take an Asian carrier to get to India and the European carriers go to the Mid-East and Africa. I'm just not sure there's much market left right now without having to start a route off with a fare war.
-Doc Lightning-

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Max Q
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:39 am

And United just sits and watches..
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FlyFree27
Posts: 22
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:03 am

Oil and AA's operation in DFW for Oneworld flying
 
brilondon
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:28 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 8):
1) Less competition in Texas
2) More premium $$ in Texas
3) Huge South Asia markets!!!!
4) One-world mega-hub in DFW

Also why would you want to fly into the congested airspace of Socal? SFO and its surrounding area are more about technology where as Texas is about oil which coincidentally, so is Qatar.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6380
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:50 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):

What would you really expect UA to do?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
ScottB
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:38 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
It's just as easy to take an Asian carrier to get to India and the European carriers go to the Mid-East and Africa.

Not just as easy, but also shorter. LAX-DEL is two hours closer via ICN than via DOH. Even BOM is closer going across the Pacific.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
What's the reasoning behind this?? Is it the oil/gas market in IAH??

The oil and gas market is a key driver, and business travelers in the oil & gas industry typically can book premium classes for long-haul international flights.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Quoting ASA (Reply 8):
1) Less competition in Texas
2) More premium $$ in Texas
3) Huge South Asia markets!!!!
4) One-world mega-hub in DFW

Reasons 1 and 4, I can agree with. As for 2 and 3, well........???

Yeah, LAX definitely has more premium traffic than DFW, and there's a bigger South Asia market there as well. But the DFW hub and the oil market makes the difference (IAH is obviously an oil route).

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 26):
Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):
Yes but to where? AA offers no strong connecting value at LAX - you're already pretty much out of United States landmass once you're there.

Fresno, Sacramento, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, Phoenix, Tucson, Eugene, Honolulu, Lihue, Maui, etc., etc.

AA flies to all of those except for Santa Barbara, Eugene and Lihue from DFW. And I'm pretty sure the connecting traffic from DOH to those destinations is not particularly strong.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bjorn14
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:33 am

Like Qatar, Texas has no personal income taxes.    BTW, DOH isn't so much about oil as it gas specifically LNG. They order LNG tankers like EK orders 380s
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
burchfiel
Posts: 479
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RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting SVA402 (Reply 12):
United still flies a 737-800 from Houston to Edmonton, Alberta because they are both oil areas.

And don't forget United's flight from IAH to LOS, their only route to Africa. I imagine oil has a lot to do with that.
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4449
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 18):
Depends how you define the area, but with the following definition, Houston and Dallas both have fewer people than the Bay Area.

Metropolitan Area Population Rank (as of July 1, 2012)

1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington
5. San Francisco Bay
6. Boston
7. Philadelphia
8. Dallas
9. Miami
10. Houston

And of note - Dallas and Houston posted the highest population gain percentages at 4.08 and 4.20 percent respectively of the top ten.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2255
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 42):
And don't forget United's flight from IAH to LOS, their only route to Africa. I imagine oil has a lot to do with that.

Oil has everything to do with the LOS route.

QR will eventually serve SFO and the other cities on the above list but the Texas destinations are a no brainer given the Oil and Computer sectors in TX.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Qatar Has Chosen Texas Over California. Why?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:02 am

I always find it funny that when Houston (or Dallas) are the topic of conversation these silly population lists (often out of date) almost invariably find their way into the thread in question......just find it funny is all..

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 43):
Quoting modesto2 (Reply 18):
Depends how you define the area, but with the following definition, Houston and Dallas both have fewer people than the Bay Area.

Metropolitan Area Population Rank (as of July 1, 2012)

1. New York
2. Los Angeles
3. Chicago
4. Washington
5. San Francisco Bay
6. Boston
7. Philadelphia
8. Dallas
9. Miami
10. Houston
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