How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 2)

7BOEING7 · Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:19 am

Looks like BAB is using their 787's fairly conservatively ie, with some intelligence due to the known issues as opposed to some people who were a little aggressive with their introductions. Every afternoon 6 days a week 3 airplanes leave LHR for North America, spend 2 to 3 hours and return home arriving in the morning and leaving again in the afternoon. One day a week they only send 2 airplanes. Nobody has been stuck away from home overnight lately and the fourth airplane rotates in when somebody is running a little late. With a little more experience and new software we'll eventually see the whole 787 fleet airborne at the same time occasionally.

TPA0822 · Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:28 am

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 46):
Heard on the grapevine of just a 14% dispatch rate at BA.

Source or link, please?

Stitch · Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 46):
Heard on the grapevine of just a 14% dispatch rate at BA.

A 14% dispatch rate would mean BA effectively has never flown a scheduled 787 service, so that cannot be correct.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 49):
If that were remotely close to true, BA would have sued Boeing by now, or at least publicly demanded major compensation.

Not to mention the media would have been all over it, which means we'd have heard about it here from the forum's 787 critics.

[Edited 2013-12-19 18:01:23]

747megatop · Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:45 pm

Looks like AI 787 headed into CDG had an identity crisis

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...-in-Paris/articleshow/27668642.cms

Has such a transponder malfunction happened before on other types? How come there is no redundancy built in to avoid this kind of problem?

KarelXWB · Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 53):
Has such a transponder malfunction happened before on other types?

It happened before on a LOT 787.

7BOEING7 · Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:14 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 54):
It happened before on a LOT 787.

Probably part of the "software" issue -- hopefully corrected soon.

Johnwaynebobbet · Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 47):
You heard wrong.

Tell that to the engineer at LHR that said it.

Polot · Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 56):
Tell that to the engineer at LHR that said it.

Well either he heard wrong or you misinterpreted what he meant. As others have said if the 787's dispatch rate really was 14% we wouldn't be hearing about through the "grapevine", we would be hearing it loud and clear through the media from BA. A 14% dispatch rate is beyond awful, especially when the 787 is currently averaging around 97%.

flood · Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:20 am

UA still seems to be struggling. They resumed 787 service to LHR Friday and the flight was promptly hit with a ~2.5hr servicing delay, possibly due to a problem arising in the morning as IAH-LAX-IAH was switched to a 772. Thursday's UA95 encountered an aircraft change with subsequent delay and UA1452 departed almost 5hrs late due to servicing, Wednesday's IAH-LAX-IAH was changed to a 767 while DEN-NRT had a 40m servicing delay, Tuesday saw two ~2hr servicing delays - one apparently due to an issue with a door, etc.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 55):
Probably part of the "software" issue -- hopefully corrected soon.

Any idea when the airlines will be receiving the updates? I've only heard of AI's being underway but no word on the others and would have thought this to be a routine and relatively quick process. I'm particularly interested in when UA will be receiving theirs - or if they've already had it done.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 40):

Friday's DY7041 CPH-FLL seems to be running several hours late but I couldn't find its status on DY's website. FR24 merely shows its ETA around 10:23 AM when I believe it should have arrived the evening before. Flightaware, meanwhile, still has them taxiing around CPH after 15 hours.

Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 56):
Tell that to the engineer at LHR that said it.

If as TristarSteve noted they consider flights one minute late as 'delayed', the engineer may have been referring to their overall on-time dispatch rate - where 14% probably isn't bad at all when using their one-minute standard and compared to their peers. Perhaps you could ask the person giving you the info how many of their flights were delayed for 15+ minutes due to technical issues.

Johnwaynebobbet · Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 58):
If as TristarSteve noted they consider flights one minute late as 'delayed', the engineer may have been referring to their overall on-time dispatch rate - where 14% probably isn't bad at all when using their one-minute standard and compared to their peers. Perhaps you could ask the person giving you the info how many of their flights were delayed for 15+ minutes due to technical issues.

I would do but it was a brief conversation while waiting for them to fix a fault with the aircraft I was on. Doubtful I will stumble across him again but if I do I will be sure to ask.

Rocker · Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:19 pm

Does anyone know what the Norwegian delay was in Copenhagen on Friday? If there was any consolation to such a delay, it was nice to finally see the daytime landing and takeoff at FLL... and a pretty quick turnaround.

RedChili · Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting rocker (Reply 60):
If there was any consolation to such a delay, it was nice to finally see the daytime landing and takeoff at FLL... and a pretty quick turnaround.

It seems you'll have the same joy today. DY7031, which was supposed to leave OSL at 15:40 yesterday, apparently departed at 06:14 today, according to the OSL web site.

hkcanadaexpat · Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:32 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 61):
It seems you'll have the same joy today. DY7031, which was supposed to leave OSL at 15:40 yesterday, apparently departed at 06:14 today, according to the OSL web site.

Planes should be relined at the end of today as EI-LNA will fly the 7035 flight and EI-LNB the 7001 flight hence allowing EI-LNC to catch up (Wed and Sun see only two departures from Scandinavia allowing "catch up" and maintenance to happen on the third frame).
A

eksath · Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting rocker (Reply 60):
it was nice to finally see the daytime landing and takeoff at FLL... and a pretty quick turnaround.

I agree.

Here are some pictures of the daytime takeoff from FLL of EI-LNC on Sat. Dec 21st @ approx. 1240H

http://www.flickr.com/photos/suresh_atapattu/

Rocker · Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Here are a couple of shots from yesterday's visit.

Big version: Width: 3023 Height: 2015 File size: 1565kb

Big version: Width: 4272 Height: 2848 File size: 2527kb

[Edited 2013-12-22 06:29:44]

RedChili · Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 62):
Planes should be relined at the end of today as EI-LNA will fly the 7035 flight and EI-LNB the 7001 flight hence allowing EI-LNC to catch up (Wed and Sun see only two departures from Scandinavia allowing "catch up" and maintenance to happen on the third frame).

According to the ARN web site, DY 7036 FLL-ARN was cancelled today. That will surely give them plenty of time to catch up with the schedule.

I wonder what they did with the pax on that flight. Reticketed on other airlines?

KarelXWB · Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:07 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 63):
Here are some pictures of the daytime takeoff from FLL of EI-LNC on Sat. Dec 21st @ approx. 1240H

Nice set of photos, good job

KarelXWB · Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting Nav20 (Reply 37):
Really don't see why that suggestion is treated with so much hostility?

I have no hostile intentions. I just disagree with your statements, my Australian friend.

eksath · Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 66):
Nice set of photos, good job

Thanks. She came straight back at approx 1000H. They are going to hold and send her back tonight.

greenjet · Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:00 am

It looks like there will be two Norwegian 787s in FLL tonight. The ARN flight is due in two hours late. Last night's departure to ARN is due to go out at 9.30pm tonight and tonight's CPH flight is due to go out just after 5am. What a headache for all involved.

PGNCS · Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 35):
Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 33):Seems like a lot of cracked windshields. Is this the big window, 4 panel design at fault?Rather that they are curved, this is something new for the thick front wingshields, they used to be plane as they have to be very sturdy to withstand bird strikes AFAIK. A350 is following, let't see if they have the same problems.

I had noticed that too and wondered if the windshield thing was statistically valid or merely anecdotally reported. As for curved windshields, they are expensive, but of course they worked fine on the L-1011 and B-747 for years. Perhaps there is a new manufacturing technique that is not as robust as planned? I actually am curious about that.

RedChili · Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:03 am

Quoting greenjet (Reply 69):
It looks like there will be two Norwegian 787s in FLL tonight. The ARN flight is due in two hours late. Last night's departure to ARN is due to go out at 9.30pm tonight and tonight's CPH flight is due to go out just after 5am. What a headache for all involved.

It looks like it's a real mess right now.

The ARN web site ays that DY7036, which was supposed to arrive at 13:00 yesterday, but which was cancelled, now says that the flight has been replaced by DY7056, estimated to arrive at 23:30 today. That's 34 hours and 30 minutes delayed.

CPH lists DY7042, which was supposed to arrive at 12:45, as cancelled. It's been replaced by DY7062, scheduled to arrive at 20:15.

OSL lists DY7002 as delayed from 10:50 to 13:20. That's only 2:30 delayed. That's the good news.

What's going on with these flights? I haven't found anything about this in the news.

invaders · Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:08 am

Norwegian have had a few problems getting people home from vacation:

Date Route Scheduled New Time Delay(hh:mm)
20DEC13 København-Fort Lauderdale 15:15-20:00 05:43-10:04 14:04
20DEC13 Fort Lauderdale-Oslo 21:30-12:35+1 12:05-03:13 13:38
21DEC13 Oslo-Fort Lauderdale 15:40-20:00 06:14-10:15 14:34
21DEC13 Fort Lauderdale-Stockholm 21:30-13.00+1 02:00-14:00* 28:30
22DEC13 Stockholm-Fort Lauderdale 15:15-20:00 17:45-22:05 02:05
22DEC13 Fort Lauderdale-København 21:30-12.45+1 05:00-20:15* 07:30

*=23 dec

300 swedes are still stranded at FLL.

Source: http://www.check-in.dk/newselement.c...?nNewsArticleID=85313#.Urfgt7RyXPY

On top of that Norwegian have had problems eastwards from Scandinavia.

RedChili · Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:05 am

For those that read Swedish (or know how to use Google translate), Expressen has a story about the delay to FLL-ARN: http://www.expressen.se/res/svenskar...i-florida-kan-missa-jul-i-sverige/

Apparently, two planes are stuck in FLL. The only techincal problem which is specified in the article is a problem with the radar on one airplane.

Rocker · Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 73):

For those that read Swedish (or know how to use Google translate), Expressen has a story about the delay to FLL-ARN: http://www.expressen.se/res/svenskar...rige/

Try right-clicking in the article, and Translate to English was a choice to pick...

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:52 pm

According to the Twitter feed of FR24, Norwegian EI-LNA just returned to FLL:

http://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/415100913032769537

invaders · Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:07 pm

Euro Atlantic B767 CS-TRN will operate ARN-JFK. Still leaves a couple of hundrer passengers stranded at FLL..

[Edited 2013-12-23 05:26:33]

eksath · Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:43 pm

We had EI-LNC and EI-LNA at FLL as reported earlier on the thread.

Pictures of the second departure of EI-LNA are uploaded to my Flickr account now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/suresh_atapattu/

Enjoy.

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:26 pm

It seems EI-LNC is waiting for spare parts to arrive:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/1...ner-idUSBRE9BM0K820131223?irpc=932

Quote:
"We are waiting now for spare parts from Boeing, and once they arrive the technicians are going to work on the plane," Norwegian Air spokeswoman Anne-Sissel Skaanvik told Reuters.

"We are getting these spare parts soon."

greenjet · Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:33 am

EI-LNC looks to have finally left FLL for ARN about 8pm tonight (almost 47 hours late). Tonight's 8pm arrival from CPH is currently due in just after 5am tomorrow.

KarelXWB · Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:27 pm

Air India VT-ANN suffers main gear brake fire at Kolkata airport.

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=162850

Quote:
A Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner operated by Air India was involved in an incident at Kolkata-Netaji Subhas Chandra Airport (CCU), India. Photos from the scene suggest the brakes of the left hand main undercarriage overheated.
Flight records suggest the airplane arrived as flight AI-20 from Delhi.

Source http://www.facebook.com/planespottersindia

[Edited 2013-12-24 06:30:59]

cc2314 · Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:12 pm

When this aircraft was in conception part of the deal was its higher cruise speed iirc it was expected to be m,9.
From what flights is have viewed on fr24 it looks like the 787 cruises at similar mach numbers to everything around it.

Rocker · Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Here is the departure from FLL this morning, EI-LNA.

7BOEING7 · Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:05 pm

You might as well just open another topic for NOR issues alone. They're playing Russian Roulette with five bullets instead of one. With their flight schedule once you get behind it's almost impossible to catch up.

On a brighter note, this month JAL has flown over 460 flights through the 23rd of December with no "issues" and ANA has flown 1600+ flights with 4 delays (3-4 hours) and 2 cancellations.

[Edited 2013-12-24 12:08:01]

AADC10 · Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 15):
If there wasn't much of a reason to buy the 788, it wouldn't have sold well into the hundreds.

There is not much of a reason to order a 788 when the 789 becomes available but at the time the 787 was first offered for sale, there were a lot of 762s in need of replacement. While the 788 is not as efficient as the 789 it is much better than the 762 and the 789 has yet to be delivered so airlines that needed a replacement went ahead and ordered the 788. In time, the 788 will be like the 762, pushed aside for a larger model with similar performance and better CASM.

Quoting flood (Reply 58):
UA still seems to be struggling. They resumed 787 service to LHR Friday and the flight was promptly hit with a ~2.5hr servicing delay, possibly due to a problem arising in the morning as IAH-LAX-IAH was switched to a 772. Thursday's UA95 encountered an aircraft change with subsequent delay and UA1452 departed almost 5hrs late due to servicing, Wednesday's IAH-LAX-IAH was changed to a 767 while DEN-NRT had a 40m servicing delay, Tuesday saw two ~2hr servicing delays - one apparently due to an issue with a door, etc.

There have also been a number of mechanical delays on PVG-LAX as well with several delays of more than two hours over the last couple of months. NRT seems to be better, perhaps because of the NH mechanics and parts.

747megatop · Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Didn't see this link posted earlier in the thread. Here is a link listing incidents with the B 787. Not a comprehensive list though

- http://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/type/b788/boeing-787-8-dreamliner

nomadd22 · Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:53 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 84):
There is not much of a reason to order a 788 when the 789 becomes available but at the time the 787 was first offered for sale, there were a lot of 762s in need of replacement. While the 788 is not as efficient as the 789 it is much better than the 762 and the 789 has yet to be delivered so airlines that needed a replacement went ahead and ordered the 788. In time, the 788 will be like the 762, pushed aside for a larger model with similar performance and better CASM.

Not always so. If you order a 788 now, by the time it's assembled it will have all the improvements that made the 789 better rolled in.

7BOEING7 · Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:57 pm

All 9 Qatar 787's are in the air now (10:45PST).

justloveplanes · Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:48 pm

What are the spare parts/components failing the most?

Software (supposedly 66% of the problem)
Brakes
Windshield
Hydraulics
Fuel lines
Engine

Software can probably be 80% fixed I am guessing relatively soon. .8 x 66% = @53% of problem fixed.

What about the other 47%? 50% more or less only elevates the reliability from 97% to 98.5%. Still have a ways to go (1% +) to match a 777. What can be / is being working on component wise to fix this other 1+%

RedChili · Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:23 am

I can see on Flightradar that DY7001 is on its way OSL-JFK. Right now (00:20 UTC, Sat 28 Dec), the flight is over the state of Quebec, Canada. But it's operated by EuroAtlantic's CS-TRN, a 763.

LNB is airborne ARN-JFK, while LNC is on CPH-FLL.

Anybody knows why it's a 763 and not LNA on today's DY7001?

airmailer · Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:37 pm

If the translation site I used is correct, it sounds like DY has a 787 stuck in New York (again?)
http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/No...6-venter-7420387.html#.UsGSHI2A3-c

Quote from the translated version:
"There are technical problems with the brake systems that are the reason that the Dreamlineren has been standing at the John f. Kennedy International Airport in New York."

RedChili · Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 90):
If the translation site I used is correct, it sounds like DY has a 787 stuck in New York (again?)

Yes, it's correct. It appears that EI-LNA is stuck at JFK. The OSL web site says "more info at 19:00" (18:00 UTC), which was seven minutes ago. This plane will apparently be at least 16 hours delayed.

Apparently, the same plane had a problem yesterday on BKK-OSL, with the heating/air condition. 270 passengers spent more than 10 hours in 32 degrees Celsius (90 F).

RedChili · Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:54 pm

It seems that LNB is on its way OSL-BKK, and LNC is flying CPH-FLL.

LNA is stuck in JFK. Tonight's ARN-JFK, which was supposed to depart at 17:35, is now "estimated 22:30." Apparently, they won't be able to get LNA from JFK-OSL-ARN in two hours. Does that mean that DY is getting a replacement plane, or does it mean that the info on ARN web site is not updated yet, and the passengers are in for a nasty surprise?

Tristarsteve · Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 92):
Does that mean that DY is getting a replacement plane,

CS-TRN B767-300 is en route from Lisbon as DY8501 to operate the service.
ETA ARN 2124.

by738 · Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:41 pm

Based on current patterns, if I had the choice I wouldnt touch long haul low cost Norwegian with a barge pole, and as becoming increasingly publicised, wont bode well for them unless they get it sorted soon. Its not all the 787/Boeings fault, I feel Norwegian has bitten off more than they can chew- one by launching long haul, launching so many different routes with tight timetable and using a brand new aircraft with minimal break-in. mmm.

RedChili · Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:26 am

According to this source: http://www.dagbladet.no/2013/12/31/n...n/forsinkelse/dreamliner/31066811/

EI-LNA, which was supposed to leave JFK for OSL on Sunday night, is still parked at JFK with brake problems. New ETD is 8:30 Wednesday morning local time, which is almost 60 hours delayed. They're apparently chartering another airplane to bring the passengers home.

CS-TRN is currently operating JFK-ARN, and will arrive at 11:50 AM today (which was supposed to be operated by EI-LNA and arrive at 11:00 yesterday).

EI-LNC is currently operating FLL-ARN and has an ETA only 20 minutes delayed.

Yesterday's ARN-BKK was operated by 9H-SEA. It was supposed to return to ARN at 14:55 today, but it's listed with an estimated arrival at 07:20 tomorrow at the ARN web site.

RedChili · Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:44 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 95):
Yesterday's ARN-BKK was operated by 9H-SEA. It was supposed to return to ARN at 14:55 today, but it's listed with an estimated arrival at 07:20 tomorrow at the ARN web site.

Update from http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/vi-sitter-kjosfast-i-bangkok/22690719

Dep from BKK estimated at 09:05 tomorrow, 2 January, i.e. 24 hours delayed. The reason is that the crew needs to rest before bringing the A346 back to ARN.

Concerning LNA, which has been parked at JFK since Sunday night, Daniel Kirchhoff from Norwegian says: "If we would have known the extent of the situation, we would have reacted earlier, but the feedback from Boeing was that this was a problem which could be solved relatively quickly."

7BOEING7 · Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 94):
Based on current patterns, if I had the choice I wouldnt touch long haul low cost Norwegian with a barge pole, and as becoming increasingly publicised, wont bode well for them unless they get it sorted soon. Its not all the 787/Boeings fault, I feel Norwegian has bitten off more than they can chew- one by launching long haul, launching so many different routes with tight timetable and using a brand new aircraft with minimal break-in. mmm.

As Norwegian's issues will continue for quite some time I would suggest a new topic for all those just interested in NOR's delayed/cancelled flights -- this is getting boring.

On a brighter note:

JAL has flown 800+/- flights over the last 40 days with only 1 "issue" -- a delay of 2+29.

ANA in December has flown 2100+/- flights with 8 "issues".

seabosdca · Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 94):
I feel Norwegian has bitten off more than they can chew- one by launching long haul, launching so many different routes with tight timetable and using a brand new aircraft with minimal break-in. mmm.

These sorts of issues have happened before, with all sorts of equipment (767, A300/A310, A330) when smaller operators new to long-haul get too ambitious with their scheduling. They will figure out in time what they can realistically manage (although with this sort of operator a long delay is always a bit more likely). Until then, I wouldn't book them.

SonomaFlyer · Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:43 pm

I understand everyone's point about a smaller carrier launching an ambitious schedule (DY). However, the wide nature of the issues and the fact they are happening so often seems strange. They bought the Gold Care service from Boeing which should ensure well trained mechanics staff and sufficient spares. DY brought these issues up to Boeing last summer.

Either the teams Boeing subbed out to maintain the planes aren't doing their job or DY is igorning something in how the 788 must be run in order to avoid a pile-up of maintenance issues.

As for moving DY to its own thread, why? If its boring to you, don't read the thread.

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