DariusBieber
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Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:42 pm

With the introduction of cameras on some of the airliners today, could a few cameras be placed throughout the outside of the aircraft to basically replace windows on aircraft?

I see a few pros to this:

We all know windows are aerospace engineers' worst nightmare. They are one of the main causes of stress fractures, so if we take those out the aircraft could be maintained for longer periods of time.

Pilots would be able to see what is going on in the aircraft. This could help in case of emergency. Take the British Midland Flight 92 disaster for example, when the pilots unknowingly shut off the wrong engine which they though was malfunctioning. If cameras were in place, they could have seen the engine fire from the outside and located it quickly.


Is this possible?
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Cipango
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Thread starter):
They are one of the main causes of stress fractures, so if we take those out the aircraft could be maintained for longer periods of time.

There is a reason why the window blind has to be up during take off and landing. Apparently it is so emergency services can see in after a crash.

I could see many more flights being diverted due to panic attacks on board.

Passengers have in the past spotted a leak from the wing and (perhaps) saved the flight from disaster.

I don't think this will ever be a thing. The cameras are simply a bonus, not a replacement.

Yes, maybe windows are a nightmare for engineers, but I would hardly call it a "pro" to not put them in. A windowless aircraft would be my idea of a nightmare.

[Edited 2013-12-09 07:53:09]
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tommy1808
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:50 pm

Hi,

It would be very easy to do that. The question would rather be if passengers would buy a ticket for such a flight.....

best regards
Thomas
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reffado
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:52 pm

I imagine it could be done, but I don't think it will, at least not anytime soon. In any case, the "flying wing" design for concept planes will result in most passengers not being anywhere near a window, so it may become standard in the future. I for one would feel claustrophobic in such an environment, but that's just me.
 
DariusBieber
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:00 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 1):
There is a reason why the window blind has to be up during take off and landing. Apparently it is so emergency services can see in after a crash.

I could see many more flights being diverted due to panic attacks on board.

Then could cameras inside the cabins which could have the feed transmitted on a WiFi or Bluetooth (or similar connection) to emergency services be the answer?

In regards to panic attacks, wouldn't it be better not to be able to see outside and know what's going on for people who are afraid of flying and have to take medication?
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Tugger
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:02 pm

Funny, I made a post on this in the hypothetical 797 thread, to rephrase slightly:

Actually you never know, a "windowless cabin" is easy to substitute with video screens. I know it may be blasphemy here on A.net but it could greatly simplify things engineering-wise and reduce weight, and a good video panel where the window would normally be might resolve the claustrophobia and familiarity issues etc. Honestly though I do not know enough about the whole issue to make any real declarations, someone more knowledgeable will have to chime in, but I am betting the weight and maintenance savings from removing the windows would more than make up for the cost and weight of a video screen. They could be bigger and offer many more options as desired.

Not that I don't prefer a good 'ol window, just that there are options and windows create issues for the airframe.

Tugg
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Cipango
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):
Then could cameras inside the cabins which could have the feed transmitted on a WiFi or Bluetooth (or similar connection) to emergency services be the answer?

Plane falls out of the sky and yet the wifi is still operating perfectly? Seriously?

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):
In regards to panic attacks, wouldn't it be better not to be able to see outside and know what's going on for people who are afraid of flying and have to take medication?

This was with regards to claustrophobia.

People might not realise it, but when a plane turns even people in the aisle look out the window. Why? Because otherwise they would suffer from vertigo.

With no windows on a plane people would be very uncomfortable.

It is never going to happen.
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DariusBieber
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Plane falls out of the sky and yet the wifi is still operating perfectly? Seriously?

If a plane truly falls out of the sky, I'm sure the plane would be in pieces anyways and would have no need for windows to look inside of the cabin...

[Edited 2013-12-09 08:15:50]
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tommy1808
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):
In regards to panic attacks, wouldn't it be better not to be able to see outside and know what's going on for people who are afraid of flying and have to take medication?

You will have a lot of sick people on your plane. Feeling motion and not seeing any makes people puke in no time during turbulences. Cameras and Screens don´t help, since they are moving with the plane.

best regards
Thomas
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:20 pm

Yeah, the manufacturers have tossed up this idea now and again only to have the airlines shoot-down the idea because of pax such as myself.. I want a good view of the action outside the aircraft at all times. I am very particular about what aircraft I fly on and my window-seat location. I want a view out of a window at all times! I even miss the window in the lavs!
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jox
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:30 pm

Even if I would not like it myself, I imagine you could replace each and every window with a flatscreen showing what is outside that particular spot. I.e. what you would have seen through the traditional window. Like 1:1 relationship camera/screen, not one camera, many screens.
 
billreid
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:36 pm

If anyone has flown on a military transport you will have experienced the "no window flight."

It isn't bad at all. upstairs on the C-5 wasn't too bad. The reverse seats were stranger for me. Also the window seat without the view was also the least desirable if you are locked in with two pax beside of you.

I do like the seats on newer transports, no windows too. The thought of hoping the pilot knows where he is going is more prevalent when you have no windows. You truly feel at the mercy of the crew.
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roseflyer
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Thread starter):
We all know windows are aerospace engineers' worst nightmare. They are one of the main causes of stress fractures, so if we take those out the aircraft could be maintained for longer periods of time.

That isn't really true any more. That was if you go way back to the 1950s when fatigue was still a new concept, but it isn't any more. It is in many basic engineering stress text books that the corners on the Comet's windows created stress concentrations which resulted in structural failure, but that is more relating to corners than windows.

There are holes in airplane structure throughout the airplane. The fuselage skin itself is relatively mature design technology. There is far more crtical design being considered on how to reduce structural weight. The wing and wing to body join area are seeing significant research into reducing structural weight. Technology such as wing load alleviation through fly by wire is resulting in reduction of stress and significantly reducing weight. Fuselage skin windows and joints are childs play compared to that.

In the end, passengers like windows. Many people would be hesitant to fly on an airplane without them. Removing windows could reduce weight, but I can't imagine the flying public appreciating that design trade off.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):

Then could cameras inside the cabins which could have the feed transmitted on a WiFi or Bluetooth (or similar connection) to emergency services be the answer?

Cameras need electrical power. Electrical power in an emergency when relying on batteries or a RAT is in critical demand. There is no way that such a system would be put on such a critical power bus. Once you are on the ground, the power environment gets even more questionable. Evacuation and ARFF should never need to rely on airplane electrical power being available.
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strfyr51
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:40 pm

since many emergency proceedures depend on the outside vision by Crew and passengers??
It Ain't gonna FLY!!
Emergency evacuation with a Fire outside? Emergency evacuation in a Water landing.
Bird Strike assessmant by the Crew?
All depend on having cabin windows, Passengers NEED to be able to see outside.
That's why Freighters don't have cabin windows..
They're either plugged or the airplane was modified to eliminate them.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 8):
You will have a lot of sick people on your plane. Feeling motion and not seeing any makes people puke in no time during turbulences. Cameras and Screens don´t help, since they are moving with the plane.

This makes no sense, if windows work to address motion sickness, so would video screen "windows". Windows "move wit the plane" as much as any video systems would.

Quoting jox (Reply 10):
Even if I would not like it myself, I imagine you could replace each and every window with a flatscreen showing what is outside that particular spot. I.e. what you would have seen through the traditional window. Like 1:1 relationship camera/screen, not one camera, many screens.

Why would a 1:1 be needed at all? You could easily do the task with 4 camera at max (front, mid ahead of wings, mid behind wings, back).

Tugg
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WA707atMSP
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:52 pm

Boeing did passenger comfort studies when they were designing the 777, and again when they designed the 787. Passengers overwhelmingly felt more comfortable, and less claustrophobic, in an aircraft with the largest possible windows.

That's why the 787 has such large windows!

Regardless of the cost / weight concerns, an aircraft without windows will never be acceptable to most passengers. I don't think it will ever happen!
 
tommy1808
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
This makes no sense, if windows work to address motion sickness, so would video screen "windows". Windows "move wit the plane" as much as any video systems would.

I should have been more precise. The Screens move just like the window, but different from a window the "outside" moves with the screen, hence the problem, feeling motion but seeing none, remains. Our brain has learned that motion on a screen has no relation to the real world, i could imagine these screens would even make it worse.
And if you are sensitive to it, you can´t train it away. Even Submarine crews have that problem when they have to stay close to the surface in heavy weather and the boat is rolling.

best regards
Thomas
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planemaker
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
People might not realise it, but when a plane turns even people in the aisle look out the window. Why? Because otherwise they would suffer from vertigo.

Of course... that is why it they all look out the window in IMC and at night... to not suffer vertigo.
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rfields5421
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:08 pm

I've also flown on a lot of military transports over the years.

Those without windows create a lot of psychological changes.

1) The flight 'seems' longer. Without an outside reference, the apparent passage of time goes slower.

2) As mentioned above - the against the wall seat feels more confined.

3) Passengers do feel 'at the mercy' of the crew.


And of course the #1 reason for not flying on an airplane with no windows.

We would not be able to watch hundreds of videos of takeoffs and landings and criticize how the pilots are flying the plane.
 
sovietjet
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:11 pm

Well at least it would put an end to window shots on a.net   
 
Mir
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Thread starter):
Pilots would be able to see what is going on in the aircraft. This could help in case of emergency. Take the British Midland Flight 92 disaster for example, when the pilots unknowingly shut off the wrong engine which they though was malfunctioning. If cameras were in place, they could have seen the engine fire from the outside and located it quickly.

If the fire warnings had been wired correctly, they wouldn't have even needed to look out the window.

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):
Then could cameras inside the cabins which could have the feed transmitted on a WiFi or Bluetooth (or similar connection) to emergency services be the answer?

No, the technical hurdles to implementing something like that effectively are huge. You'd have to have a camera system that would allow emergency crews to see into the cabin from any window at any angle, and you'd have to allow them to connect individually to the wireless connection. And then you'd have to power the system reliably, which is not something you want to be wasting power on in an emergency situation.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Evacuation and ARFF should never need to rely on airplane electrical power being available.

  

-Mir
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AA94
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:19 pm

Personally, I think this is a pipe dream (at best).

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Plane falls out of the sky and yet the wifi is still operating perfectly? Seriously?

  

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 18):
Those without windows create a lot of psychological changes.

1) The flight 'seems' longer. Without an outside reference, the apparent passage of time goes slower.

2) As mentioned above - the against the wall seat feels more confined.

3) Passengers do feel 'at the mercy' of the crew.

  
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 15):
Boeing did passenger comfort studies when they were designing the 777, and again when they designed the 787. Passengers overwhelmingly felt more comfortable, and less claustrophobic, in an aircraft with the largest possible windows.

I knew a guy who was in Structures on the original 777 development project and he noted one of their studies was to not have windows, but instead use video projection systems to project images of the outside onto the cabin walls and ceilings so it looked like you were in a transparent tube.

I also recall that one of the BMW's concept studies for the A350 interior used projectors to paint a "sky" on the ceiling.
 
ripcordd
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:24 pm

With no windows how are you able to tell the captain about the little green men on the wings...Imagine the twighlight zone episode with a plane with no windows....
 
tommy1808
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 17):

Of course... that is why it they all look out the window in IMC and at night... to not suffer vertigo.

Not all, but those people sensitive to motion sickness do. Well.. or the plane starts to smell like coffee......

best regards
Thomas
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tortugamon
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:58 pm

I have been on a number of flights with tail cameras and cockpit cameras installed. This is already happening. Some aircraft have cameras on the bottom of the aircraft to make sure gear is properly deployed. I would not want to fly a windowless plane. In fact, I think the trend is going the other direction making windows larger and larger and improving the flying experience.

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Cipango
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 7):
Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Plane falls out of the sky and yet the wifi is still operating perfectly? Seriously?

If a plane truly falls out of the sky, I'm sure the plane would be in pieces anyways and would have no need for windows to look inside of the cabin...

A bit of wind or rain and my wifi is down or slow.

Can't imagine what it would be like in plane crash.
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Tugger
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Evacuation and ARFF should never need to rely on airplane electrical power being available.

Ultimately THIS is probably the primary reason why windows must be kept. While night crashes remove the "light advantage" already, the idea to add a potential handicap to the process is probably a non-starter. Again unless a manufacturer can demonstrate that the existing emergency lighting systems are adequate, finds the savings worthwhile, and is willing to go through the likely regulatory battle.

Tugg
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Stitch
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Evacuation and ARFF should never need to rely on airplane electrical power being available.
Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
Ultimately THIS is probably the primary reason why windows must be kept.

The primary reason why windows are kept is because they are far less expensive (in terms of weight cost, installation cost and maintenance) than a video projection system.

It's all about the      
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:44 pm

I suspect a more realistic (in the mid to long term) outcome is that the fuselage skins themselves become transparent. Google "transparent composites" for an idea of the r&d being done in this area. Airbus future concepts often factor this in: http://www.airbus.com/innovation/fut...t-planes/the-airbus-concept-cabin/ .

As fanciful as that might seem, one could envisage an A350-esque aircraft where the side panels are transparent - the windows are merely the areas where frames/stringers/insulation/pipe runs are absent.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
cloudboy
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:01 pm

And video screens and cameras are easier to engineer cost effectively? Yes there are problems associated with windows, but I think by now we have figured that stuff out, and windows arent the only holes in the fuselage engineers have to deal with. Interesting idea, though. I would think if it would be popular however, we would see more use of forward facing cameras like they used to have on some jets.
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SPQR
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):

That idea may not be too far off reality if research into transparent aluminum allowed it to take on the attributes needed for aircraft skin. The 'windows' would simply be portals in the interior panelling of whatever size the airline wanted and outside simply leave the portal area unpainted. Rectangle windows, egg shaped, triangle windows, all possible without having to worry about stress spots.
 
Mir
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
While night crashes remove the "light advantage" already,

Not as much as you'd think - rescue crews have flashlights, after all, and it's reasonable to assume that even in daylight there may be some sort of smoke in the cabin that the crews will have to contend with.

-Mir
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rcair1
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 2):
It would be very easy to do that. The question would rather be if passengers would buy a ticket for such a flight.....

No - or they might but they would not prefer it.
Existence proof: How many busses, trains and passenger cars do you see with no windows?
It is both easier, cheaper and lighter to leave them out of a bus too.
One of the things I HATE about riding the train through the Chunnel is you cannot see outside due to lighting.

Quoting reffado (Reply 3):
design for concept planes will result in most passengers not being anywhere near a window,

No window and not near a window is not the same.

Quoting cipango (Reply 6):
Because otherwise they would suffer from vertigo.

Spatial disorientation occurs regularly with pilots in IMC - where the windows are "blank"

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
If the fire warnings had been wired correctly, they wouldn't have even needed to look out the window.

A lot of assumptions about the fire there. Reliable fire detectors are hard to make to work, hard to make work in a damage aircraft. It is hard to communicate to frightened passengers - there is fire out "there" (where is there? In front of the wing, behind the wing, both sides, etc.). How about that pool of leaking fuel on the ground that is on fire...
Much simpler to let them use their eyes....

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
No, the technical hurdles to implementing something like that effectively are huge.

  

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):
Not as much as you'd think - rescue crews have flashlights, after all, and it's reasonable to assume that even in daylight there may be some sort of smoke in the cabin that the crews will have to contend with

But the passengers don't. If the lights 'go down' you are in a dark place. Yes - you can, potentially, add independent battery powered lights, but....
rcair1
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:26 pm

I think so, cheap way to do is have several cameras covering different angels, may be even some PTZ and feed thru IFE. Have one channel for position based virtual landscape. That makes even aisle pax happy. If you want to go all out use the new curve LCD display in place of the window.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:44 pm

The absolute worst idea IMO, I hope no planemaker will adopt it. I love nothing more than looking out the window when flying, no camera can replace the real thing. If I want to enjoy the artificial views through a screen I'd just go to Youtube!

Speaking of airliner windows, the electro-chromatic dimmable windows is my least favorite feature on the 787 & A350. When I book my window seat I want to have full control over my window, and that won't be possible with the new windows.   
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:49 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 35):
When I book my window seat I want to have full control over my window, and that won't be possible with the new windows.    

Having flown aboard the 787, I can state that even when in the "full dim" position, it's quite easy to see out of them during daylight hours.
 
AM744
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:53 pm

Didn't they tried that with the first underground train prototypes a hundred years ago just to go back to windows?
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
Having flown aboard the 787, I can state that even when in the "full dim" position, it's quite easy to see out of them during daylight hours.

I know, but I like to see the beauty of Planet Earth in its natural colors. Even on the ground, I hate wearing sunglasses.

The ability to see out even in full dim is not good for folks on the other end of the spectrum, the nervous flyers who keep their shades down the entire flight.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:04 pm



Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 38):
I know, but I like to see the beauty of Planet Earth in its natural colors. Even on the ground, I hate wearing sunglasses.

A fair point.


Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 38):
The ability to see out even in full dim is not good for folks on the other end of the spectrum, the nervous flyers who keep their shades down the entire flight.

I would think such passengers would prefer an aisle seat over a window.  

[Edited 2013-12-09 15:05:31]
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:08 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
I would think such passengers would prefer an aisle seat over a window.

Of course they would, but you're not guaranteed your preferred seat every time you fly.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 4):
Then could cameras inside the cabins which could have the feed transmitted on a WiFi or Bluetooth (or similar connection) to emergency services be the answer?

No, because the other reason the window blind has to be up (in some countries, not all it seems) for takeoff and landing is so that the pax/crew's eyes can adjust to the light outside the aircraft. The (distinct) benefit of this is you don't have people jumping out of a dark space into bright sunshine, becoming even more disoriented than they already are, and clogging up the evacuation.

Also, nobody would want to fly on a windowless aircraft. I wouldn't, and I'm far from a nervous flyer. People just like to be able to see what's around them!
 
rcair1
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RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:20 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 35):

Speaking of airliner windows, the electro-chromatic dimmable windows is my least favorite feature on the 787 & A350. When I book my window seat I want to have full control over my window, and that won't be possible with the new windows.

I've heard lots of people state this - but I've yet to here of many examples where the cabin crew actually overrode it - except that they have lightened it up during landing/takeoff. The opposite of your complaint.
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L0VE2FLY
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 42):
I've heard lots of people state this - but I've yet to here of many examples where the cabin crew actually overrode it

I've heard from those who flew the 787 online and in real life about the crew overriding pax and dimming the windows.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 33):
A lot of assumptions about the fire there. Reliable fire detectors are hard to make to work, hard to make work in a damage aircraft. It is hard to communicate to frightened passengers - there is fire out "there" (where is there? In front of the wing, behind the wing, both sides, etc.). How about that pool of leaking fuel on the ground that is on fire...
Much simpler to let them use their eyes....

I was referring to the fact that the crew of the 737 in the accident that was referenced shut down the incorrect engine, leaving the engine that was on fire running. There were several reasons for this, but a big one is because the fire detectors in the engine were wired improperly, showing that the good engine was actually the one on fire. Were that not the case, the fact that the crew could not physically see which engine was on fire would have mattered far less.

The passengers don't really enter into that discussion. You are correct, however, that from a passenger standpoint, being able to physically see the fire out the windows is very valuable.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
dwightm
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:40 pm

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:57 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
This makes no sense, if windows work to address motion sickness, so would video screen "windows". Windows "move wit the plane" as much as any video systems would.

Actually, the view a passenger or crew sees through a window is not subject to turbulence and such as would a camera mounted to the plane. Windows move, but not our perception.
 
delta88
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:35 pm

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:27 am

Simply No

People like my mom dont like flying, as long as they can see out the windows, even at night when you cant see anything, it helps keep down her aniexty. Windows also ive learned(expirence when i was a child) that a Window keeps children quiet(er) and may help soothe any flying woes. Windows are meant for viewing outside and let in light.

Delta88
B712,B738,B739,B752,B762ER,B763ER,B772ER,MD82,MD83,MD88,MD90,A320,CRJ9,CRJ2,EMJ145,ERJ175
 
rcair1
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 44):
I was referring to the fact that the crew of the 737 in the accident that was referenced shut down the

I was referring more to evacuation. I think the number of cases where fire has been visualized by crew members is relatively small.
rcair1
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:09 am

I could see airlines taking out windows, reducing seat pitch to 24", charging a $200 convenience fee for the opportunity to purchase a round trip plane ticket between EWR and TTN for $9 and marketing the changes as... 'to better serve you'.

[Edited 2013-12-09 23:25:15]
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
nojetlag
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:58 am

RE: Could Windowless Passenger Airliners Be Done?

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:26 am

Its kinda of already happening in many Cathay Coffins seats and the reaction from the passengers is not good.

Almost all of them want to see out the windows. They are there but you cannot see out of them. And this is in business class.

I am told, and have no firm evidence on this, that the person responsible for this set up was fired as there was a lot of bad feedback. Could be abother urban myth.

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