njdevilsin03
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Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:56 am

Southwest, the airport's largest carrier, plans to add 25 international flights a day to the Caribbean and South America to the 70 domestic flights that it operates daily out of Fort Lauderdale. The airline will to continue to operate out of the terminal during construction.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...-makeover-20131210,0,5567298.story
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njdevilsin03
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:04 am

I'm assuming this means a customs facility in concourse A?

Also wondering how B6 will react and if Spirit will start cutting service...
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jfklganyc
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:09 am

A little late to the game.

First Spirit, now JetBlue, and here comes Southwest.

I wonder if the S Florida market is big enough for all 3.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:15 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):

All 4. Don't forget the biggest player in the market; AA.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
airliner371
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:16 am

Good news. So they are getting 5 international gates at HOU and FLL. Where next! All this work clearly shows they plan to do big things internationally.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):
I wonder if the S Florida market is big enough for all 3.

4... AA at MIA too.
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:27 am

Hmmm, how does B6 react to this. Well I think B6 should link up a lot of there destiantions in the United States to help feed there rapid expansion for there international destinations. For example, add routes from B6 current destiantions that WN doesn't fly yet. Which is probably not many but there's CLT,CHS,SAV. I know SAV isn't viable, I only mentioned it because WN doesn't fly there. Anyways to sum it up, I think B6 needs to add/beef up frequency to really win the consumer before WN attempts to make a stand in FLL. Obviously I'm a little biased to CLT but it honestly would be a good idea do reinstate CLT-FLL just because the population number throughout the CLT metro area are very strong, there's most defiantly enough loyalty on the FLL end to help feed the CLT flights and CLT would be a good feeder for FLL, as long as the flights are timed well. Just a thought.
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barney captain
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:31 am

Since AFAIK, WN has made no such announcement, I wonder if this info was supposed to be released? Fairly big news, you think it would have come from the horses mouth.
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njdevilsin03
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:38 am

So 25 flights a day to International destinations...I would assume that would prob be around 10 diff locations not including SJU.... Any guesses?
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AM777LR
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:44 am

So I'm guessing that the FL flights out of SNA to MEX and Los Cabos will be switched to WN metal?
 
ouboy79
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 4):

Good news. So they are getting 5 international gates at HOU and FLL. Where next! All this work clearly shows they plan to do big things internationally.

With domestic tapped out for the most part, only one way to go.

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 6):
Since AFAIK, WN has made no such announcement, I wonder if this info was supposed to be released? Fairly big news, you think it would have come from the horses mouth.

Sounds like a project that was suppose to remain mostly hush hush except for whatever approvals they needed in the public arena - without divulging who it was for. Oops
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 5):
Hmmm, how does B6 react to this.

B6 is so much farther ahead with lower costs, I'm not sure it will be much of an issue. When WN is reporting dreadful LFs on FLLSJU in the Fall it's clear they have a ways to go to mastering Caribbean, let alone intl.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Okie
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:20 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 9):
Sounds like a project that was suppose to remain mostly hush hush except for whatever approvals they needed in the public arena - without divulging who it was for. Oops

The project is to start by the end of 2014 and complete by 2017. So we are at least a year from the start of the project.
The article indicated that WN would be operating during construction. Just a wild guess but I would think it would be at least the end of 2015 before the international side would be ready. That is 2 years away, so yes I would say that it is a little premature on the announcement unless I am missing something.


Okie
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:26 am

B6 should link up ORD-FLL to help feed their FLL flight, Chicago is hungry for my carreibian service, we really get shafted by AA on it, always wanting us to connect at MIA or i guess now CLT.
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 12):

I see where your coming from, but with ORD just recently getting service from ORD-SJU, do you think that might give ORD less of a chance to get FLL because of SJU?
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727LOVER
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:40 am

Quoting njdevilsin03 (Thread starter):
Southwest, the airport's largest carrier,

Say what??????????


Is that true????
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
usflyguy
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:01 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 14):

Say what??????????


Is that true????


Yes. From the airports website...

Airline Passengers Share
1. Southwest/AirTran 4,671,188 19.8%
2. JetBlue 4,405,708 18.7%
3. Spirit 4,268,516 18.1%

[Edited 2013-12-10 20:03:41]

[Edited 2013-12-10 20:04:25]
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SWADawg
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:05 am

See? It's all coming together just like I said. WN/B6 Merger between 2015/2016 with the new combined carrier operating the flights out of the joint Airline's FLL focus city (don't call it a hub).
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:09 am

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 13):
I see where your coming from, but with ORD just recently getting service from ORD-SJU, do you think that might give ORD less of a chance to get FLL because of SJU?

The ORDSJU fares are horrific--I think they'd be better off replacing it with ORDFLL for the FLL network benefit.
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airliner371
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 16):
It's all coming together just like I said.

I would not be against such merger but I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself. They have not even completed the AirTran acquisition. I fully support Southwest and a possible merger with B6 but to say a merger will happen in 3 years is way to far out and many things will change by then.
 
tyler81190
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 4):
All this work clearly shows they plan to do big things internationally.

Big is relative... for WN Mexico is BIG, for B6 on the other hand BOG is big. Then you have Legacies, where EWR-NRT, ATL-NRT, ORD/DTW-GRU are big...
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:13 am

So what will be the big WN int'l hubs by 2017?

We know HOU and now FLL. BWI? LAX? ???
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airliner371
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 19):
Big is relative... for WN Mexico is BIG, for B6 on the other hand BOG is big. Then you have Legacies, where EWR-NRT, ATL-NRT, ORD/DTW-GRU are big...

What I meant was WN isn't planning to offer token service with something like 6 flights to Mexico, they are going to be operating a decent amount of international service.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 12):
B6 should link up ORD-FLL to help feed their FLL flight, Chicago is hungry for my carreibian service, we really get shafted by AA on it, always wanting us to connect at MIA or i guess now CLT.

Nobody is getting "shafted." Like most of the Midwest, Chicagoans prefer Mexico. Want to tell MIA it gets "shafted" on Mexico service?
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airliner371
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:19 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 20):

So what will be the big WN int'l hubs by 2017?

We know HOU and now FLL. BWI? LAX? ???

Probably something in the LA area, maybe PHX. I think you are only going to see around 4-5 international gateways at WN and a lot of airports with token international service. Maybe something like large gateways in HOU, FLL, PHX and LAX and token service from ATL, BWI, MCO, TPA, MSY, AUS, SAT, SNA, LAS, DEN, MDW and a few others.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:32 am

I'm curious what catch phrase WN may come up with for the Caribbean and South America flying. "You Are Free to Move Around The Country" no longer would fits neatly. Perhaps replace country with hemisphere.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
usflyguy
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:51 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 19):
Big is relative... for WN Mexico is BIG, for B6 on the other hand BOG is big.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, as FL already flies to AUA... the northern parts of S. America aren't much further. I'm pretty sure you will find WN in BOG, LIM, SJO, etc. starting in the next 3-5 years.

B6 doesn't have aircraft that can fly somewhere WN's fleet can't.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):
Maybe something like large gateways in HOU, FLL, PHX and LAX

I doubt LAX has many route authorities left. Possibly SAN. I think both LAS and PHX will get quite a few near-international flights.
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barney captain
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 24):
"You Are Free to Move Around The Country" no longer would fits neatly. Perhaps replace country with hemisphere.

"You are free to move about .......... completely"

 
Southeast Of Disorder
 
airbazar
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 5):
Hmmm, how does B6 react to this. Well I think B6 should link up a lot of there destiantions in the United States to help feed there rapid expansion for there international destinations

Humm, isn't this a reaction to B6? I've always maintained that FLL will become B6's S.American hub when B6 is ready to order A320/1NEO's. The likes of Rio, Sao Paulo, SCL will all be within reach with a NEO, something WN won't be able to match.
 
silentbob
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 16):
See? It's all coming together just like I said. WN/B6 Merger between 2015/2016 with the new combined carrier operating the flights out of the joint Airline's FLL focus city (don't call it a hub).

Right after the bankruptcy filing to cut costs.
 
rumorboy
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:27 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 28):
Right after the bankruptcy filing to cut costs.

Since 2012 Southwest net income has been 963 million dollars(up to SEPT 30th 2013). They have generated 1.9 billion in free cash flow since 2012. They have 3.6 billion in cash with the lowest amount of debt of any legacy. By the way they also pay out dividends and have been buying back stock for a couple of years. All of this while absorbing Airtran. Bottom line is you may be waiting a while. Just saying....
 
doug
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:30 pm

From what I could find on flightstats is that Southwest is the number 3 carrier in terms of departures at FLL Jet Blue has 59 Spirit 42 and Southwest 39 dailies.
 
Av8tor
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 16):
See? It's all coming together just like I said. WN/B6 Merger between 2015/2016 with the new combined carrier operating the flights out of the joint Airline's FLL focus city (don't call it a hub).

I totally agree. Merging with JetBlue is the ONLY way WN will get a large presence in NY/BOS.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):
I wonder if the S Florida market is big enough for all 3.

No but NK will be the big loser here. 2 bags flying free will be a big bonus for these planned markets.
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jayunited
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:56 pm

When is international service from FLL on WN scheduled to begin?
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting njdevilsin03 (Reply 1):
Also wondering how B6 will react and if Spirit will start cutting service...

NK has stagnated at FLL and ceded significant market share to B6, so I don't see them looking to defend their turf at FLL. B6, on the other hand, is sure to be a fierce competitor. With intentions of making FLL a Caribbean/Latin America hub with 100+ flights a day, B6 has quite a bit banking on FLL for its future growth.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):
A little late to the game.

Agreed. Between B6's continued and rapid expansion, and the more competitive AA/US down the road at MIA, I don't see how WN can make a business case for profitable FLL-International flying. WN's CASM is higher than B6's, and their brand presence in South Florida isn't historically favorable, so this would be quite an uphill battle for WN.

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 5):
Well I think B6 should link up a lot of there destiantions in the United States to help feed there rapid expansion for there international destinations. For example, add routes from B6 current destiantions that WN doesn't fly yet. Which is probably not many but there's CLT,CHS,SAV.

This is likely in order moving forward. I think a lot depends on how many slots B6 picks up at DCA, as aircraft will have to be deployed there first and foremost. However, if B6 only gets a handful of slots at DCA, I'd look for FLL-domestic expansion to occur sooner rather than later. There are logical arguments to add CLT/PHL/BWI/ORD/PIT, and I'm still stunned that B6 hasn't added FLL-MCO/TPA. All markets would cater to the following 2 demographics:

1. South Florida-based travelers, with which B6 has strong brand awareness/loyalty
2. Passengers connecting through FLL to get to Latin America (i.e. passengers flying BWI-FLL-SDQ).

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 16):
It's all coming together just like I said. WN/B6 Merger between 2015/2016 with the new combined carrier operating the flights out of the joint Airline's FLL focus city

LOL

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
The ORDSJU fares are horrific--I think they'd be better off replacing it with ORDFLL for the FLL network benefit.

ORDSJU yields are pretty low, but the route just started, so we need to give it some time to mature before concluding on its sustainability. I think B6 knew this going into the market, and the fact that LF's are running 90%+ at least shows that B6 can pick up some ORD-based traffic. I would also think there are some marginal connections through SJU to STT and St. Croix, which B6 only serves from SJU, as well as SDQ/STI/PUJ.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
I've always maintained that FLL will become B6's S.American hub when B6 is ready to order A320/1NEO's.

As much as I'd like this, I don't know if the 321neo has enough seating capacity (or the range?) to make a route like FLL-GRU work. This is also a rather high-yielding market that could warrant the Mint product. But either way, B6 would only be flying 190-seat 321 "high density" aircraft or 159-seat 321 "premium" aircraft. How is B6 supposed to compete with AA down the road -- as well as the Latin American carriers -- which are operating widebody aircraft with 250+ seats?
 
Flytravel
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 34):
There are logical arguments to add CLT/PHL/BWI/ORD/PIT,

There are also smaller cold markets in the northeast to upper midwest to link down to FLL. And there is DTW which B6 recently added.

The issue is part of the year esp. around September/early October when FLL demand downsizes.

I think ORD-FLL and PIT-FLL might do better than BWI-FLL which already has WN and NK on it and thus low fares. B6 already is down in DCA on DCA-FLL as well.

CLT-FLL will be difficult, and it was tried, already. AA/US has a huge hub there, and the CLT market for whatever reason (probably US/AA being too big of a fish in a small sea) doesn't support carrier diversification outside of US as well, and maybe DL (with a nearby hub in ATL) well.

[Edited 2013-12-11 09:59:31]
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 34):
How is B6 supposed to compete with AA down the road -- as well as the Latin American carriers -- which are operating widebody aircraft with 250+ seats?

They don't have to beat AA into submission - just have to take enough market share that allows the flight to make a profit.
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MAH4546
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Humm, isn't this a reaction to B6? I've always maintained that FLL will become B6's S.American hub when B6 is ready to order A320/1NEO's. The likes of Rio, Sao Paulo, SCL will all be within reach with a NEO, something WN won't be able to match.

The amount of money there is to be made flying a narrowbody, single class aircraft (or 16J) airplane between FLL and Buenos Aires, Rio or Sao Paulo is $0.

Either fly a widebody with a premium product, or don't bother. Gol is learning that the hard way.
a.
 
airbazar
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 34):
How is B6 supposed to compete with AA down the road -- as well as the Latin American carriers -- which are operating widebody aircraft with 250+ seats?

As far as I've been told, the FLL and MIA catchment areas are different so B6 would be alone in this market. Secondly their new premium A321 configuration is ripe for long haul service, both TATL and to S.America. An A321NEO with only 159 seats will be able to fly as far south as Rio from FLL.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 37):
Either fly a widebody with a premium product, or don't bother. Gol is learning that the hard way.

People used to say that about TATL. They've been proven wrong and about to be proven even more wrong with the launch of the A321NEO. If the offering is right, they will get the passengers. Not to mention that no one else is flying that far south from FLL so the potential is there, and B6 knows it or they wouldn't be expanding their intl service from FLL.
 
doulasc
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:56 pm

I could never imagine Southwest adding International routes out of FLL. I would think JetBlue and Spirit have the upper hand there. When the embargo is lifted in Cuba Jetblue will be the first to add FLL-HAV,

[Edited 2013-12-11 11:00:33]

[Edited 2013-12-11 11:01:30]
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
As far as I've been told, the FLL and MIA catchment areas are different so B6 would be alone in this market.


The airports are 20 miles away from each other. I've flown into FLL to go to the Keys and flown into MIA to visit areas north of FLL.

Quoting doulasc (Reply 39):
When the embargo is lifted in Cuba Jetblue will be the first to add FLL-HAV,

That depends on what the air services agreement between Cuba and US winds up being: If its open skies - we could have up to 6 carriers serving Cuba. WN, B6, NK, AA, Silver Airways, and Cubana. Wouldn't be a surprise if DL jumped in as well.

Quoting doulasc (Reply 39):
I would think JetBlue and Spirit have the upper hand there.

I think JetBlue and Southwest have the upper hand over an airline that nickel and dimes you to death.
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737tanker
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 39):
I could never imagine Southwest adding International routes out of FLL.

When WN does add international out of FLL don't plan on it being to South America. Initially the international out of FLL will be to the Caribean.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
People used to say that about TATL. They've been proven wrong and about to be proven even more wrong with the launch of the A321NEO. If the offering is right, they will get the passengers. Not to mention that no one else is flying that far south from FLL so the potential is there, and B6 knows it or they wouldn't be expanding their intl service from FLL.

Who's been proven wrong exactly? Because almost every low-cost trans-Atlantic business model has failed or does poorly, sans Icelandair. But Icelandair is hardly "trans-Atlantic." Most of it's flight to Iceland are in the air less time than a domestic trans-con.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
As far as I've been told, the FLL and MIA catchment areas are different so B6 would be alone in this market.

Two airports that are 20 miles apart and serve the same exact city are not different markets whatsoever. Saying that FLL and MIA are different cachement areas is like saying EWR and JFK are, too.
a.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:57 pm

MIA and FLL are about a 35 minute drive apart in normal traffic. And it's more like 26 miles.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 15):
Yes. From the airports website...

Airline Passengers Share
1. Southwest/AirTran 4,671,188 19.8%
2. JetBlue 4,405,708 18.7%
3. Spirit 4,268,516 18.1%

Ohhhhh....forgot about the addition of AirTran, thanks.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:38 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 43):
MIA and FLL are about a 35 minute drive apart in normal traffic. And it's more like 26 miles.

Doesn't change the fact it's the same market. You can get between MIA and FLL far faster than between EWR and JFK.
a.
 
barney captain
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 37):
The amount of money there is to be made flying a narrowbody, single class aircraft (or 16J) airplane between FLL and Buenos Aires, Rio or Sao Paulo is $0.

At 3600nm/4100sm to GIG and 3900nm/4400sm to EZE, I don't think the NEO or the MAX will be capable of those distances - so it's a non-starter.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 35):

Well I think the factor that could make CLT-FLL more realistic is this times there's more connecting opportunities on the FLL end to help CLT out. FLL was a lot smaller back then.... Hopefully now with the merger happening the new AA will decrease CLT-FLL and focus on MIA capacity.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17861
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 40):
I think JetBlue and Southwest have the upper hand over an airline that nickel and dimes you to death.

Between the res system(s), ancillary issues, distribution limitations, brand awareness, WN is so far behind the curve here it essentially has to change its model before it starts anything significant in Latin America. NK is going to find itself marginalized by its ULCC model, not by B6 and WN--ULCC and connecting traffic just don't mix, so anything that isn't almost entirely local in FLL is dunzo.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jfk777
Posts: 7203
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Southwest International @ FLL 2017

Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:18 am

Let the great FLL bloodbath begin. Many things have to happen, like SW being successful at Hobby in Houston before they expand to FLL where don't have the domainace they have in Texas. SW should do the Texas Latin flights not the crowded Florida Latin flights.

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