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TWA772LR
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CO And Their Pacific Network

Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:49 pm

Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand and Fiji. Why did they stop those flights? I know they restated Fiji recently and cut it again. Also, why did they stop the flights to Midway Island and Johnston Island?

COs 1985 network
http://www.departedflights.com/CO090485.html

[Edited 2013-12-15 13:06:44]
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand

They had them up until the mid-90s.

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Why did they stop those flights?

         From the end of 1990 up to sometimes in the first half of 1993, CO was operating under Chapter 11 protection. It came out of it and pretty quickly began to lose altitude again. In 1994 Bethune took over as CEO and cut the South Pacific network, amongst other things.

[Edited 2013-12-15 15:08:18]
 
jfk777
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:00 pm

Contninetal was always at a disadvantage to Qantas, Air New Zealand and United since it didn't have nonstop capable planes from LAX ro Sydney and Auckland. It never got 744 it had Dc-10-30 and 747-200 which stop in Honolulu and oher cities before getting to Ausie.
 
Viscount724
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:46 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Also, why did they stop the flights to Midway Island and Johnston Island?

Can't recall CO serving Midway Island. Don't think it ever had scheduled service except during its years as a fuel stop in Pan Am flying boat days.

Johnston Island was a military facility and was closed and abandoned in 2004 after its use as a chemical weapons disposal site. The airport is also closed and the island is now unpopulated.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand and Fiji. Why did they stop those flights?

As I recall, they decided to put those aircraft on flights to Europe, primarily out of EWR. The margin was much higher for the Europe flights than the Pacific.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
COSPN
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:51 am

Jonhston Island was closed and Abandoned June 15, 2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Island

United still goes to KWA (Regan Test site) KWA-MAJ-HNL with the 737-800 http://www.smdc.army.mil/RTS.html

[Edited 2013-12-15 16:55:07]
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:53 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):


Can't recall CO serving Midway Island.

Old CO route map showing Midway Island:

http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171.html
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
kiwiandrew

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:59 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand and Fiji. Why did they stop those flights?

I recall that in NZ it was quite a shock when they announced they were pulling out. It was around the same time that AC took their stake in CO ( well before the NW 'golden share' deal) and several reports I read at the time said that AC influenced the decision as they had no real interest in the Pacific ( which back then was CP territory) . I have no idea whether there is any truth to that.
 
COSPN
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:39 am

from the map PLEASE NOTE: Many routes indicated on this route map were not actually operated.

the route was HNL-JON-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM , not sure if Midway was a stop on the hopper in 1971 but it was switched to JON untill the 737-800 came the 727-200 needed to stop in JON for fuel

Guess by 78 went to JON

http://www.departedflights.com/CO043078.html

[Edited 2013-12-15 18:05:24]
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:47 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):


from the map PLEASE NOTE: Many routes indicated on this route map were not actually operated.

The map says that, but all cities shown on the map in the USA were served. The problem with the corresponding timetable is that none of the CO Mike schedules were listed.

http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171intro.html

Maybe a CO old-timer will know for sure?

A little more research:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/cs3/cs74/cs74-1.jpg

1974 this time, Midway Island still showing.

[Edited 2013-12-15 17:50:45]
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
Viscount724
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 5):
Jonhston Island was closed and Abandoned June 15, 2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnsto...sland

Two sites on Johnston Island history with dozens of photos:
http://home.earthlink.net/~markinthepacific/index.html
http://www.johnstonmemories.com/

Photo a few years ago of Johnston Island and the abandoned 9,000 ft. runway after all the buildings had been torn down.

 
Max Q
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:42 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
In 1994 Bethune took over as CEO and cut the South Pacific network, amongst other things.

S Pac was cut way before Bethune Arrived, that happened under Lorenzo.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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kiwiandrew

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:03 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
In 1994 Bethune took over as CEO and cut the South Pacific network, amongst other things.


S Pac was cut way before Bethune Arrived, that happened under Lorenzo.

It was before him, but not all that long before. My recollection was the New Zealand was axed quite late in 1993.
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:04 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand and Fiji. Why did they stop those flights?

Technically, CO served Australia up until they merged with UA, via. Continental Micronesia, on GUM-CNS. UA continues to serve the route, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Aeri28
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):

Old CO route map showing Midway Island:

http://www.departedflights.com/CO103....html

This map is so interesting. The route system almost replicates Western Airlines 'in visual appearance" and it brings back memories of the potential merger between both LA based airilnes ,Western and Continental, to merge and create a HQ in Denver. I remember it so well, my father was preparing us for a potential move if it happened. Geez, back in 1978 give or take a year or two.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:01 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
S Pac was cut way before Bethune Arrived, that happened under Lorenzo.

It happened indeed just before Bethune arrived but Lorenzo was already out of the picture then. The cut was effective October 31, 1993.

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Why did they stop those flights?

Simply because, as they said, they were losing $4 million a month.

Here's an archive about the news:

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...20-%202069.html?search=Continental
 
DavidByrne
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:42 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):
the route was HNL-JON-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM

I once flew to MAJ on CO, and our routing was indeed HNL-JON-MAJ, but there was no stop at JON on the return sector.

The aircraft was, if I recall, a 727-100 mixed pax/freight (does that sound right?). When we landed at JON, we taxied to a remote part of the field and lowered the air stairs to allow a couple of military to disembark. All the while, a vehicle with a gun mounted on the top kept its gun trained on the aircraft. Not sure what they were concerned about!
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
The aircraft was, if I recall, a 727-100 mixed pax/freight (does that sound right?)

Yes it's right. Air Mike first had 727-100C.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
All the while, a vehicle with a gun mounted on the top kept its gun trained on the aircraft. Not sure what they were concerned about!

Most probably for the same reasons as on the picture below.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui

 
thrufru
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:56 pm

The security at PKWA was pretty lax in comparison. While through passengers did not disembark, there was no extraordinary security. 95% of the population was civilian. Most of the security sensitive installations were located on other islands around the atoll.
 
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airzim
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Continental in the 80s used to have flights to Australia and New Zealand and Fiji. Why did they stop those flights? I know they restated Fiji recently and cut it again. Also, why did they stop the flights to Midway Island and Johnston Island?

They flew quite an extensive network in the South Pac.

Pago Pago, Suva (not Nadi in Fiji) AKL, BNE, CNS, SYD, and MEL, and PPT. Most of these flights departed from HNL before heading south but PPT did have nonstop from LAX for a while. Lots of milk run flights low frequency flights and all with DC-10-30, and later 747s acquired from PE. They also had Continental Hotels on a few islands that didn't have other accommodations.

In addition CO at various times flew from JFK/SEA/SFO/LAX/DEN/SAN/EWR/IAH and I think PDX to HNL to feed these flights.

As someone stated, the 74L and 744 killed the premium market from the West Coast to Down Under for CO. CO was the backpacker choice since you could stop 2 or three times before you got to LA.
 
goldenjet707
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:00 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 19):

It was Nadi and not Suva.
Initially service was on DC-10-10's, hence the stops in Pago Pago and Nadi. We ordered two DC10-30's, ship 60 and 61, to do HNL-AKL and HNL-SYD nonstop. The DC-10-10's continued flying the route through Fiji well into the eighties with the very popular Pub. Pago Pago was dropped very early on in the game.I can't remember PDX-HNL, but YVR-HNL did exist.
 
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airzim
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting goldenjet707 (Reply 20):
It was Nadi and not Suva.
Initially service was on DC-10-10's, hence the stops in Pago Pago and Nadi. We ordered two DC10-30's, ship 60 and 61, to do HNL-AKL and HNL-SYD nonstop. The DC-10-10's continued flying the route through Fiji well into the eighties with the very popular Pub. Pago Pago was dropped very early on in the game.I can't remember PDX-HNL, but YVR-HNL did exist.

Stand corrected. I had a distinct memory of service to Suva not Nadi, but I can't verify it.

Also on the DC-10s, I do recall that 10-10s were used prior to the 10-30s but I couldn't be sure. I was pretty young back then.

Thanks for the update
 
bobnwa
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Johnston Island was a military facility and was closed and abandoned in 2004 after its use as a chemical weapons disposal site. The airport is also closed and the island is now unpopulated.

During the 1960's NW under contract of the US government flew DC7's to both Johnston and KWA from HIK
 
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cageyjames
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:59 pm

Ah, CO to Australia. I think I went on them back in 89 or 90. LAX-HNL-CNS-BNE on a DC-10 (even still had the stand-up bar). Back was less interesting SYD-HNL-LAX but still that wonderful old DC-10. It was on Business Class back when they had 3 tiers on those flights.
 
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airzim
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:17 pm

I should also add that when CO had 757s in GUM, they annonced service to Noumea. Not sure if it was actually served, but if it did, it didn't last long.
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:33 pm

BNE commenced in November 1988.
tourismman
 
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cageyjames
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 25):
BNE commenced in November 1988.

Was it always HNL-CNS-BNE-HNL or did CO fly direct HNL-BDE.
 
Viscount724
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 17):
Yes it's right. Air Mike first had 727-100C

And prior to the 727-100C, the DC-6B (N90961). Leased from CO 1968-75. Converted to a DC-6A/B with forward main deck cargo door.

At Saipan 1970. For some reason I can't get the photos to display in the reply.
http://www.myaviation.net/search/search.php?view=&regnr=N90961


While with CO, LGA 1960. Used on a UA/CO interchange service, thus the joint tail livery and insignias on the nose. Operating as a UA-only flight in that photo as CO had no routes east of Chicago then. In a 1960 timetable the UA/CO interchange route was SEA-PDX-BOI-DEN-ICT-TUL (UA SEA-DEN and CO DEN-TUL). CO also had a couple of interchange routes with AA and Braniff.



And at DEN (Stapleton).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/reed0427/N90961b.jpg

Quoting airzim (Reply 21):
Stand corrected. I had a distinct memory of service to Suva not Nadi, but I can't verify it.

Suva airport only has a 6,100 x 100 ft. runway. Not capable of handling large jets.
 
ptcflyer
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:26 pm

Those were the Golden Years to the South Pacific on Continental.

FFM4 OnePass award 75,000 miles... got you 2 round trip tickets from the US to the South Pacfic, 3 nights stay at a Marriott, and 1 week car rental with Hertz.

You could split the award and fly both tickets at different times yourself.

With careful planning you could earn miles on your free tickets... and come back from Australia or New Zealand with more miles than it cost to go!

Business class upgrades were common with being a Gold Level One Pass member and being nice to the Gate Agents.

I took my backpack and flew to every market that Continental Served.... SYD, BNE, MEL, CNS, GUM, HNL,AKL, PPT, and DPS.

I remember earning 18 bonus points of a special promotion by filling out a credit card application for the One Pass credit card and flying a set # of domestic segments. The bonus points translated into 80,000 One Pass miles. So by just filling out a credit card application... I earned enough points for 2 tickets to the South Pacific. With the 1987/1988 triple miles promotion and double miles for Elite Status... Flying was extremely lucrative on CO.

Those were amazing memories of the Continental South Pacific Network!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:27 pm

Quoting ptcflyer (Reply 28):
I remember earning 18 bonus points of a special promotion by filling out a credit card application for the One Pass credit card and flying a set # of domestic segments. The bonus points translated into 80,000 One Pass miles. So by just filling out a credit card application... I earned enough points for 2 tickets to the South Pacific. With the 1987/1988 triple miles promotion and double miles for Elite Status... Flying was extremely lucrative on CO.

By comparison, airlines have become really mean.

Quoting airzim (Reply 19):
As someone stated, the 74L and 744 killed the premium market from the West Coast to Down Under for CO.

This is indeed on such route that the 74L had the advantage over its main rival, the DC-10-30. I don't know whether the -30ER could have flown the route non-stop?
 
COSPN
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:39 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
The aircraft was, if I recall, a 727-100 mixed pax/freight (does that sound right?). When we landed at JON, we taxied to a remote part of the field and lowered the air stairs to allow a couple of military to disembark. All the while, a vehicle with a gun mounted on the top kept its gun trained on the aircraft. Not sure what they were concerned about!

the VX nerve agent was taken from Europe to Johnson for destruction ...so that what they were guarding most deadly stuff in the world..now gone.. the other VX incinerator was in Newport, Indiana just closed after all VX was burned up   Aug 8, 2008...

as for CO and South Pac CO lost the 4 mil per month cause was full of pax flying CO15/16 LGW-DEN-HNL-SYD for cheaper than QF was selling SYD-SIN-LHR so they got a free Hawaii and Ski trip out of it was good deal at the time..but not for CO
 
DDR
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:42 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Johnston Island was a military facility and was closed and abandoned in 2004 after its use as a chemical weapons disposal site. The airport is also closed and the island is now unpopulated.

Wow it seems like such a waste. Too bad they could not turn it into a tourist spot. A whole island empty.  
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:58 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 31):
Wow it seems like such a waste. Too bad they could not turn it into a tourist spot.

Oh yeah ? To do what besides enjoying the fantastic sound and smell of airliners ? It wouldn't be cheap to have holidays there. Not to forget that Hawaii is about a thousand miles to the northeast.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=johnst...&hnear=Johnson+Atoll&gl=ch&t=h&z=5

If I had to choose between a handkerchief in the middle of nowhere and an archipelago, I'd go for the latter.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:37 am

I remember doing the leg from SYD-PPG and later the PPG-HNL legs on CO DC10-10's back in 1980 when I was 13. I remember thinking they were the most poorly maintained aircraft I'd been on; actually, it was the first time I'd ever noticed maintenance, or lack of, at all. Was hot deplaning on the tarmac in the midday sun at Tafuna in Am Sam.
come visit the south pacific
 
hagerstrom
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:13 pm

Continental Airlines won the contract with the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands by a daring proposal to provide jet service to the islands. The other proposers (incumbent Pan American and Northwest) were to content to use the DC-6.

Midway was a technical stop because the existing short coral strip at Majuro could not provide the field length for fuel/payload of the 727-100 for the eastbound leg to HNL. Also, Johnston Atoll was at the time bring expanded with a longer runway to support a build-up of infrastructure and workforce there for the secure storage and disposal of nerve gas and defoliants (Agent Orange).

When the new runways at MAJ and Johnston were ready the technical stop at Midway was no longer necessary. CO d/b/a Air Micronesia continued to provide scheduled service from Johnston on account of the military population there. The military had to provide a safe shelter for civilians in the event the flight went AOG while at Johnston. Later service at Johnston was reduced to once a week, then it became a technical stop eastbound only when payload required. The introduction of the 737 (with its superior field length and range performance) eliminated the need ever to stop at Johnston.

Johnston Atoll was the base of several operations: LORAN navigational system (replaced by GPS), nerve gas and defoliants (now disposed of), rocket launched ionospheric nuclear testing (prohibited by Nuclear Test Treaty) and optical telescope tracking of satellites and orbital debris.

With the decommissioning of the military facilities, the atoll is now a national wildlife preserve and is closed to all human activity.
 
strfyr51
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:49 pm

Co Air Micronesia's interisland service was partially taken over by Global Associates for part of hte smaller islands in the Marshell Chain. While in the Navy I flew 10HR island partols to assess the condition and wellbeing of the islands after a severe weather event
We would leave NAS Agana Guam, Fly 10-13 hrs and stop for the night at Kwajelien or NAS Cubi Point (Subic Bay)
And finish our partol the followig day depending on which way we were going either back to Guam or down to the Soloman Islands and Australia. The Aussie 405 Sq also flew the same Patrols for ocean surveys or SAR as there seemed to be some Japanese freighter ****Maru always in some sort of Distress or taking on Water.
I understand they now fly these partols out of Diego Garcia.using Marine C130's.
Many times while overflying one of these islands we woud see a CO Air micronesia 727 on the Ground or even a World Airways 727 in the middle of nowhere. I never DID find out what they were doing out there..
 
timz
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:16 pm

CO started its flights west from HNL in 1968; Midway wasn't shown as a passenger stop in 3/69 or 1/70 or 2/71 or 4/74 or 4/75. Didn't check 1972 or 1973, but far as anyone knows Midway never appeared in any public timetable after 1950? Just on CO's map?
 
Viscount724
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 32):
Not to forget that Hawaii is about a thousand miles to the northeast.

HNL-JON is 714 nm (822 mi).
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):
HNL-JON is 714 nm (822 mi).

Thanks. I only did a vague estimation with google map.
 
Yflyer
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Contninetal was always at a disadvantage to Qantas, Air New Zealand and United since it didn't have nonstop capable planes from LAX ro Sydney and Auckland. It never got 744 it had Dc-10-30 and 747-200 which stop in Honolulu and oher cities before getting to Ausie.

There was no open skies agreement between the US and Australia in those days if I understand correctly, so even if they had a plane that could do it did they have the route authority to serve Sydney non-stop from the mainland US?
 
superjeff
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:46 am

Continental did not have nonstop authority from LAX to Sydney. I flew it in August, 1989 on a 742 LAX-HNL connecting to a DC10-30 HNL-SYD. The 742 continued on to AKL and the DC10 originated in SFO.
 
rfields5421
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):
HNL-JON-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM
Quoting COSPN (Reply 8):
Guess by 78 went to JON
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
The aircraft was, if I recall, a 727-100 mixed pax/freight (does that sound right?).

I was stationed at NAS Agana Guam from mid-72 to March 74. Rode the island hopper from Guam to HNL and back once via JON on both inbound and outbound legs. Also took the plane to Yap a couple times.

The island hopper was a combi B727-100 - freight up front ahead of the wing, pax in the back who board via the rear airstair. There was often no access from the cockpit to the back of the plane due to cargo loads.

I also remember when the DC-6 had to fly when they put the B727 into our hanger for a repair.

JON had just opened to flights about the time I got to Guam. Though the airspace was occasionally restricted for launch of rockets.

A friend I met later in my career who was stationed on Midway in 71 said that the island hopper stopped there occasionally. At times, a sailor or three could get a seat to HNL and back if there was room. There was a contract flight from Hickam/HNL to Midway three times a week for logistics and mail. Don't remember who had that contract.

For many years before 72, Johnston Island's location was purposely wrong on ship and aircraft navigation charts. They wanted the island location kept secret. Don't know why, surely the Russians knew exactly where it was. There were things a lot more dangerous than VX on Johnston in the late 60s and early 70s. It was also home to some of the most dangerous BW ever created.

After all the Agent Orange was moved there, things got a bit more open. But the military also realized that modern technology, even the primitive spy satellites of the time, made trying to keep an island location a secret was a waste of time and money.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
COSPN
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:13 am

Yes CO had LAX-SYD route authorization but could never find a used 747-400 to do it>>> Air Canada was supposed to lend some out to CO but that never happened.. new airplanes was out of the question in those days  
 
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RWA380
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RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:15 am

Quoting goldenjet707 (Reply 20):
.I can't remember PDX-HNL
Quoting airzim (Reply 19):
I think PDX to HNL
http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171p12.html - CO timetable from 10/31/71 clearly showing non-stop flights from PDX to HNL on CO
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
goldenjet707
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:24 pm

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 43):

Quoting goldenjet707 (Reply 20):
.I can't remember PDX-HNL
Quoting airzim (Reply 19):
I think PDX to HNL
http://www.departedflights.com/CO103171p12.html - CO timetable from 10/31/71 clearly showing non-stop flights from PDX to HNL on CO

I thought we were discussing CO's Pacific routes of the 80's. Sorry!
 
timz
Posts: 6580
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 41):
For many years before 72, Johnston Island's location was purposely wrong on ship and aircraft navigation charts.

The 1960 Instr Appr chart says 16-44 N 169-31 W, which looks to be off by a mile or two.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:41 pm

guess that makes sense ... KWA was also "moved" to the US side of the International dateline because of the missle testing shots from California to KWA
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5755
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting goldenjet707 (Reply 44):

I thought we were discussing CO's Pacific routes of the 80's. Sorry!

Nope, you're right, the OP said 80's, my bad. I knew it had operated at one point, and got over zealous in my search. I always look at Hawaii as part of any carriers pacific operation.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
klwright69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:14 am

CO certainly had glory years in the South Pacific.

It was not Gordon and it was not Lorenzo that pulled the plug. I think it was Robert Ferguson, and not Hollis Harris either. In this forum, memories seem to be a bit foggy. Everyone remembers and talks about Gordon B in the 90's and Lorenzo in the late 80's. Everyone completely forgets about the other in-between CEO's.

In my current company I work with a number of people from NZ. They all remember CO airlines and asked me about what happened to them. They remember this many years later. CO to NZ was legendary.

The reason for the discontinuation of major operations to the South Pacific was the lack of ability to compete with UA, Qantas, and Air New Zealand because they didn't force you to connect in HNL at 12 a.m. CO was forced to bottom feed with cheap fares.

I remember it was CO flight 34/35 that went HNL-DEN-LGW. These DC10's connected large numbers of customers from AKL, SYD, BNE and MEL to London. Note it was too LGW and not LHR. Lots of cheap low yield seats.

At the time, dropping of these routes was a real blow to morale. What would CO be like without these operations? But over the years it became obvious that CO was destined for greener pastures, and we didn't all see that at the time. At the time CO had only one or two destinations in South America, a handful of destinations to Europe, and no nonstops from IAH/EWR to NRT for example. CO international longhaul was kind of limited, Those South Pac ops was the real big cheese at CO.
 
nascarnut
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:43 am

RE: CO And Their Pacific Network

Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:58 am

It was either Harris or Ferguson that pulled the plug on the Southpac.
Continental had just introduced the Businessfirst Product into the Southpac. Product had been on the market for around 1 year when decision made to exit Soutpac. The CEO at the time felt the DC10 would be better utilized flying domestically.
The same CEO also thought CAL-Lite would be the way to go for Continetal.
United had already pulled out of the AKL-HNL market leaving CO to fight it out with NZ and QF.
It would have been interesting to see how Continetal would have gone if it had retained the Southpac network and continued to grow. There was talk that the Businessfirst product would have made a profit for Co in the Southpac because at the time they were the only carrier offering the Businessfirst service for Business class fares.

We will never know

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