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1337Delta764
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AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:53 am

With AA and US now officially merged, the new AA will need to decide on a concourse at ATL: either T or D. This leads me to wonder: could at gate swap between AA and UA be a possibility at ATL? From what I heard, UA plans on consolidating all of its ops at Concourse T. So as a possibility, AA could give up its T gates for UA's D gates, and since US already has some gates in D, perhaps AA could move all ops to D with the old UA and US gates.

What does anyone here think?
 
deltairlines
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:57 am

AA has prized territory at ATL...first gates after security, a nice Admirals Club and a private baggage claim area (the old international bag claim). They won't give it up just to move to D.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:13 am

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):
AA has prized territory at ATL...first gates after security, a nice Admirals Club and a private baggage claim area (the old international bag claim). They won't give it up just to move to D.

So, if both UA and AA consolidate all ops at T, what will happen to the UA and US D gates? Certainly DL won't give up its gates at T; the T gates are very valuable for DL since they can handle widebodies, which none of the D gates are capable of. Furthermore, DL has recently been using T for a lot of flights with a high O&D percentage, and I don't think DL is willing to take away that convenience for its loyal FFs on these flights.

[Edited 2013-12-17 21:14:18]
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:52 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Certainly DL won't give up its gates at T; the T gates are very valuable for DL since they can handle widebodies, which none of the D gates are capable of. Furthermore, DL has recently been using T for a lot of flights with a high O&D percentage, and I don't think DL is willing to take away that convenience for its loyal FFs on these flights.

No one said they would. Delta isn't giving up space in ATL because they don't need to.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
what will happen to the UA and US D gates?

If delta doesn't take them, IIRC the city has said they would make open D gates into CUTE gates.

I fully expect Delta to take them though.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 1):

AA has prized territory at ATL...first gates after security, a nice Admirals Club and a private baggage claim area (the old international bag claim). They won't give it up just to move to D.

Yep. If AA can find a way to fit US into the AA space they will.
Problem is, I don't know if they can.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So as a possibility, AA could give up its T gates for UA's D gates, and since US already has some gates in D, perhaps AA could move all ops to D with the old UA and US gates.

No need. UA/City of Atlanta have a deal worked out. UA will be getting a few RJ spots IIRC which will give them the room to move the sCO operations over.


AA's gates are going to cost a pretty penny. They are the best set up at the Airport for O/D airlines. (Delta would love the gate side, but AA also has the ex FIS space/baggage claim that wouldn't be valuable to DL.)
 
realsim
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:07 pm

There's already a project approved for the optimization of the north side of the T Concourse, and this is how it will look like:

* The three current aircraft nose notches on the boarding level will be enclosed, so the floor area will be extended.
* The gates will be realigned, increasing them from 7 to 9. Of these, 4 gates will be for AA and 5 gates for UA.
* Basically, on the apron, in the space where currently there are 7 gates + 1 parking space for AA ("gate" 11A), they will fit 9 parking positions with each a boarding bridge and a gate.

* The new gates T9 to T12 (AA) will be able to handle each up to an A321 independently. The 4 gates will have 4 different holdrooms with capacity for 166, 136, 170 and 187 people (not all seated, of course).
* Of the new UA gates, gates T13, T14 and T17 will be able to handle up to a 739 independently, while gates T15 and T16 will be able to handle eitther 2 RJs or 1 753. Gates T13 and T17 will also allow a 753 but conflicting with T14 and T16. So, the usual configuration should be either 4 narrowbodies or 3 narrowbodies + 2 RJs. Gates T13 and T14 will have independent holdrooms for 151 and 141 people, while T15, T16 and T17 will have a shared holdroom for 359 people..

IIRC, the UA gates at concourse D will become City gates.

Regarding AA+US, this project almost precludes them from gate consolidation at Concourse T, only because they are the last to arrive to the merger-party. Before, AA could have gained an additional gate with parking position 11A and could have tried to consolidate operations, but now, with only 4 gates, I see it quite impossible for the following reason:

In a typical schedule this week, AA operates 31 departures out of ATL and US 20 departures. The use of gates was the following the other day:

- Gate T9: 10 departures. LGA (7x CR7) and MIA (3x ER4-ERD)
- Gate T10: 7 departures. ORD (6x E75-CR7) and MIA (1x ER4)
- Gate T11: 6 departures. DFW (6x 319-S80-738)
- Gate T12: 8 departures. DFW (4x 319-S80) and MIA (4x 738)

- Gate D21: 7 departures. CLT (4x 319-320-321), PHX (2x 320) and PHL (1x E90)
- Gate D23: 6 departures. CLT (4x 319-320-321) and PHX (2x 320)
- Gate D25: 7 departures. PHL (5x E75-E90) and CLT (2x CR9-321)

With only 4 gates, it is impossible to fit 51 daily flights. Even if PHX is reduced, they need to axe at least 10 flights to accomodate 10 flights per gate. So my guess it that they'll have split operations for now, until they find a solution. IMO, the north concourse should be extended north to open space for 2 more gates at the end (which could be taken by AA is UA doesn't want to move further, because it's better to have everything in the same concourse, even if split, than in two different concourses) and like this both AA and UA would fit at T-north, but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

[Edited 2013-12-18 10:05:11]
 
ECAMActions
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):

UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 5):
UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.

UA doesn't have to move. They can run a split operation.
 
realsim
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 5):
UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.
Quoting cageyjames (Reply 6):
UA doesn't have to move. They can run a split operation.

They are consolidating their operations at concourse T with 2 new gates, so they will have gates T13 to T17 for themselves, allowing either 3 narrowbodies + 2 RJs, or 4 narrowbodies simultaneously.
 
flyua
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:48 pm

realsim,

Awesome post. Thank you so much for the fact-filled, emotion-free update.

I hope there might someday be room to open a United Club somewhere down towards the north end of T. Have you heard anything on that subject?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:59 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 5):
UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.

You posted a full 10 mintues after the explanation. Did you not bother to ready it?

Quoting realsim (Reply 4):
There's already a project approved for the optimization of the north side of the T Concourse, and this is how it will look like:

- The three current aircraft nose notches on the boarding level will be enclosed, so the floor area will be extended.
- The gates will be realigned, increasing them from 7 to 9. Of these, 4 gates will be for AA and 5 gates for UA.
- Basically, on the apron, in the space where currently there are 7 gates + 1 parking space for AA ("gate" 11A), they will fit 9 parking positions with each a boarding bridge and a gate.

- The new gates T9 to T12 (AA) will be able to handle each up to an A321 independently.
- Of the new UA gates, gates T13, T14 and T17 will be able to handle up to a 739 independently, while gates T15 and T16 will be to handle eitther 2 RJs or 1 753. Gates T13 and T17 can also allow a 753 but conflicting with T14 and T16. So, the usual configuration should be either 4 narrowbodies or 3 narrowbodies + 2 RJs.

I've stated this God knows how many times in the many UA/ATL threads but no one listened except for a few. The information is right there on the Hartsfield website if you know where to look.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
If delta doesn't take them, IIRC the city has said they would make open D gates into CUTE gates.

I fully expect Delta to take them though.

According to the deal that was inked last year in regards to the T realignment/expansion, the UA D gates are not up for bid. In fact, only 2 are leased directly from the city. The 3rd is actually a city gate that had been given preferential use to CO (now UA) for years. All 3 will be returned to the city and used as CUTE.

[Edited 2013-12-18 10:06:13]
What gets measured gets done.
 
realsim
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting flyua (Reply 8):
realsim,

Awesome post. Thank you so much for the fact-filled, emotion-free update.

I hope there might someday be room to open a United Club somewhere down towards the north end of T. Have you heard anything on that subject?

Thank you!

Yes, I see in one of the plans a space reserved for a "future United Airlines Lounge" on level 3, with 5K sq ft and with a capacity for ~50 people. If I read it correctly, the access will be from a stair located where gate T10 is now, just in front of the current concourse exit.

[Edited 2013-12-18 10:28:54]
 
United1
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 5):
UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.

Why would they have to move to D...UA has a plan in place to consolidate on T and that's been in the works long before AA/US announced their merger.

Quoting flyua (Reply 8):
I hope there might someday be room to open a United Club somewhere down towards the north end of T. Have you heard anything on that subject?

There used to be a RCC on T...not sure what they are currently using the space for.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 5):
UA is the one who is going to have to move to D. AA is not moving from the T gates.

Sorry, but you are wrong. UA had plans to consolidate at T well before the AA/US merger, therefore should anyone be forced to surrender their T gates it would have to be AA. AA is late to the merger party, therefore UA has priority over AA at Concourse T.

Alternatively, DL could give up some D gates in exchange for AA's T gates should AA decide to consolidate at one concourse.

[Edited 2013-12-18 11:47:07]
 
AADC10
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 10):
Yes, I see in one of the plans a space reserved for a "future United Airlines Lounge" on level 3, with 5K sq ft and with a capacity for ~50 people. If I read it correctly, the access will be from a stair located where gate T10 is now, just in front of the current concourse exit.
Quoting United1 (Reply 11):
There used to be a RCC on T...not sure what they are currently using the space for.

The last time I looked through the door of the old RCC space in T, it was empty. I doubt that UA would keep 2 clubs open at ATL and for a time they had none. If all of UA's flights were consolidated in T the old RCC space would be kind of small. What is level 3? Is that above the gate level?
 
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diverdave
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 4):
There's already a project approved for the optimization of the north side of the T Concourse, and this is how it will look like:

You have to wade down to page 23, but here it is:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=11971

David
 
realsim
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):
Sorry, but you are wrong. UA had plans to consolidate at T well before the AA/US merger, therefore should anyone be forced to surrender their T gates it would have to be AA. AA is late to the merger party, therefore UA has priority over AA at Concourse T.

No one is going to have priority or going to have to surrender gates at T. AA will maintain their 4 gates in a smaller space, and UA will gain 2 RJ gates for a total of 5 gates. I'm am quite sure that AA will not decide to combine at D and lose their 4 T gates. It's better to have split operations and run US Airways operations out of D. AA still has some space to add a few flights from its T gates, and I think that should be 2 daily 738s LAX-ATL and 4 daily E75s DCA-ATL.
 
realsim
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 13):
The last time I looked through the door of the old RCC space in T, it was empty. I doubt that UA would keep 2 clubs open at ATL and for a time they had none. If all of UA's flights were consolidated in T the old RCC space would be kind of small. What is level 3? Is that above the gate level?

Yes, above the boarding level. This is where the future loung will be (click to see it larger):



The area 3C in the middle at bottom of the plan will be for United Airlines loung, and the future stairs will lead to where current gate T10 is now.

And for everyone interested, this is how the final aircraft parking and gate configuration will be. The 4 gates at the left for AA, the 5 at the right for UA. AA will keep its "private" baggage claim area. At the top you can see the current gate configuration. (click to see a larger image).



[Edited 2013-12-18 12:27:38]

[Edited 2013-12-18 13:16:43]
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):
According to the deal that was inked last year in regards to the T realignment/expansion, the UA D gates are not up for bid.

I couldn't remember if they would be or not. I know at one point the City was wanting to add more CUTE gates on D, but now that they are tight as they were on space I wasn't sure they would keep that plan.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):
In fact, only 2 are leased directly from the city.

Right.

Quoting United1 (Reply 11):
There used to be a RCC on T...not sure what they are currently using the space for.

I think its still just sitting empty IIRC.
 
srbmod
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 17):
I couldn't remember if they would be or not. I know at one point the City was wanting to add more CUTE gates on D, but now that they are tight as they were on space I wasn't sure they would keep that plan.

There will be plenty of CUTE gates on D once UA and AA/US ops are consolidated on T. Let's not forget that as WN shrinks FL's operations at ATL as they begin the final stages of integrating the airline into WN, they will eventually consolidate their operations over on C. The couple of gates that were added on D South several years back were because FL was growing to the extent that the old widebody gates at the end of D as well as two spots CO and NW primarily used to park spares (Although CO would use the spot for some ExpressJet ops and back when Colgan used to fly to Hilton Head, they'd park there..) were turned into new gates.
 
jmc1975
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:41 pm

Well, to be fair for all involved, the airline which brings in the most revenue to ATL should have priority and first dibs as to which concourse they operate from. Money talks! In this scenario, the lesser of the two carriers should be junior-assigned. So this means:

- AA consolidate in Concourse T, adjacent to their existing Admirals Club
- UA consolidate in Concourse D, adjacent to their existing United Club


Benefits:

- Both carriers will have ample room and flexibility to accommodate aircraft should schedule changes and irregular operations occur.
- The larger of the two airlines will have closer access to check-in counters and baggage claim.
- Neither carrier will have split operations, thus improving customer service and employee morale at both airlines.
- Neither carrier will have to spend capital to build or relocate clubs and like infrastructure to accomplish little if no financial gain, and ultimately avoiding alienation and frustration of their respective elite members.

Since UA is the smaller of the two, it's on them to do the right thing and get the ball rolling on their move to D. This is a great opportunity for UA to be proactive in being a part of the solution for all at ATL, because if nothing happens, it'll likely be an operational as well as a customer service problem for both carriers.

[Edited 2013-12-18 14:54:54]
.......
 
United1
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting ecamactions (Reply 18):
It doesn't matter what should happen but what will happen. UA flys nothing but RJs to atl they don't have a lounge on T and have no business there. AA has a lounge it's oen baggage claim and mainline flying.

UA will eventually cut more flights when they have to reorganize again.

Actually UA does have some mainline flights out of T but you are right that they are predominately RJ out of ATL...which is why they can consolidate on T with minimal impact to everyone else. It really doesn't matter what you think...assuming that construction goes according to schedule (everything should be done by year end 2014) UA will consolidate on T during the early part of 2015.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
United1
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Since UA is the smaller of the two, it's on them to do the right thing and get the ball rolling on their move to D. This is a great opportunity for UA to be proactive in being a part of the solution for all at ATL, because if nothing happens, it'll likely be an operational as well as a customer service problem for both carriers.

That's not the right thing to do at all...UA already planned on and is executing upon consolidating operations on T. UA has no obligation to make things easier for AA in fact it can be argued that UA has a duty to its shareholders to not make life easier for AA.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 4):

-Gate D21: 7 departures. CLT (4x 319-320-321), PHX (2x 320) and PHL (1x E90)
-Gate D23: 6 departures. CLT (4x 319-320-321) and PHX (2x 320)
-Gate D25: 7 departures. PHL (5x E75-E90) and CLT (2x CR9-321)

Pretty sure US RONs one of the early morning CLT flights at the D-south gates which are CUTE, or the E concourse. Also, I've only seen the 321 flights park at the E concouse, D-south gates, or D21.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:41 am

Okay then...

What will happen is UA will consolidate on T...a plan already approved by AA, UA, and the airport...

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 20):
Well, to be fair for all involved, the airline which brings in the most revenue to ATL should have priority and first dibs as to which concourse they operate from. Money talks! In this scenario, the lesser of the two carriers should be junior-assigned. So this means:

- AA consolidate in Concourse T, adjacent to their existing Admirals Club
- UA consolidate in Concourse D, adjacent to their existing United Club

It's not the airport's or UA's problem that AA is late to the dance. This deal was signed late last year and re-affirmed very recently. Construction bid has went out and work will begin early next year. Unfortunately for AA, I don't see how they will be able to operate out of 4 gtes (including US) down the road. As it is, AA's own OPS is near max and so is US. RON a/c is a different story as both airlines currently have to park a/c on E due to all their own stands being occupied.

So, for the foreeable future, AA will run split OPS while UA will consolodate on T in about a year. This leads to only 2 possible results. They will coninute the split OPS or consolodate on D. This is with logical thinking however..

[Edited 2013-12-18 18:54:46 by SA7700]
What gets measured gets done.
 
jmc1975
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:31 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 21):
That's not the right thing to do at all...UA already planned on and is executing upon consolidating operations on T. UA has no obligation to make things easier for AA in fact it can be argued that UA has a duty to its shareholders to not make life easier for AA.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 23):
This deal was signed late last year and re-affirmed very recently.

So, let me get this straight....UA already committed to forking over a considerable amount of capital to co-locate to T and have a new United Club built for what is primarily an RJ field station? This is the airline that WAS the World's Largest (now #2) and runs nearly all RJs to the World's Busiest Airport? Whose brilliant idea was that? What do the UAL shareholders think?
.......
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:55 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 24):
So, let me get this straight....UA already committed to forking over a considerable amount of capital to co-locate to T and have a new United Club built for what is primarily an RJ field station? This is the airline that WAS the World's Largest (now #2) and runs nearly all RJs to the World's Busiest Airport? Whose brilliant idea was that? What do the UAL shareholders think?

that they want UAL to make money.......

and that they damn sure don't want to see UA spend EVEN MORE capital to move out to D so they can be nice to AA.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 19):
Well, to be fair for all involved, the airline which brings in the most revenue to ATL should have priority and first dibs as to which concourse they operate from. Money talks! In this scenario, the lesser of the two carriers should be junior-assigned. So this means:

If that is the case Delta brings in more than both of them combined, so AA and UA should both be sent to D right?

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 19):
it's on them to do the right thing and get the ball rolling on their move to D.

.....the right thing according to who?

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 19):
both carriers.

why does UA care, at all, about AA's problems?
 
United1
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:11 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 24):
So, let me get this straight....UA already committed to forking over a considerable amount of capital to co-locate to T and have a new United Club built for what is primarily an RJ field station?

Yes...the T gates are excellently located for UAs passengers and UA intends on continuing to operate from them. By reconfiguring the gate areas, and building a new club (they were going to have to spend the money to re do the club anyway as they convert to the new format) UA continues to provide convenient and quick access in and out of the airport.

It's already been approved by both UA and by ATL...they plan on starting construction around the end of January...UA should be able to consolidate in early 2015.

Just because UA only flies a couple of daily mainline flights out of ATL doesn't mean that they don't want, or rate, the gates that they choose to be in...and pay to be in...this case its T.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jmc1975
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 26):
Just because UA only flies a couple of daily mainline flights out of ATL doesn't mean that they don't want, or rate, the gates that they choose to be in...and pay to be in...this case its T.

Heck, at this point, why does UA even bother to put a United Club at ATL? Since they've been proving that they're all about cutbacks, will this predominately RJ market even sustain it? Time will tell.
.......
 
United1
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:43 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 27):
Heck, at this point, why does UA even bother to put a United Club at ATL? Since they've been proving that they're all about cutbacks, will this predominately RJ market even sustain it? Time will tell.

UA has a United Club in ATL already....just upgrading what they already have....

As for all about cutbacks....SFO-ATL starts in April....going double daily.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
apodino
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RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 28):

As for all about cutbacks....SFO-ATL starts in April....going double daily.

I think this is in response to the DL-AS war and UA feels its encroaching on their turf, so they are trying to get a piece of it too.


Honestly I don't know what the solution is to ATL. One mega carrier being dominant can be a good thing for an airport, but in this case, with the way the airport is laid out, the airport has dug themselves a hole. In most of the other big airports with one predominant carrier (IAH, DFW, MSP, DTW, and MIA to name a few), there is an obvious place for the hub carrier, and all the other airlines are handled in usually one or two obvious places, for example DFW its Terminal E, MSP its Concourse E and the Humphrey Terminal, IAH its Terminal A, and DTW its the North Terminal. What you have in ATL is that AA and UA have for a long time always been tenants of Concourse T. DL has had the south side gates for a while because its the original international concourse. A and B are permanently Delta, C is half Delta Connection and half WN. D has historically been the other airline concourse, but DL for some reason decided it needed a few gates in there a number of years ago (As if the 80 gates they already have on T, A, and B aren't enough), and E and F are the international concourses. What this lead to is the fact that the two concourses for the non DL/WN carriers are spread apart, as this was designed for multiple other airlines, not a consolidated industry. Then AA and UA merge and get bigger, and suddenly there is no room for them because they would either have to give up prime real estate, or run a split operation.

This wouldn't happen in a lot of places other than the US because all the facilities are Common Use. (Even MIA is in this country, and AA is dominant there). Naturally DL would never want ATL to turn into that (Even though they would still get preferential use of all their exisiting infastructure). But I think the T gates is something ATL needs to figure out. One thing I do wonder about ATL. I am not sure how many gates DL has on the D concourse, and how many gates WN has on the C concourse. If WN has fewer on C than DL does on D, would a gate swap work, giving DL all of the C gates (and thus more gates), and then making D WN, and the Common Use gates?
 
airliner371
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
would a gate swap work, giving DL all of the C gates (and thus more gates), and then making D WN, and the Common Use gates?

No, because concourse C is a much nicer concourse and WN would likely rather operate a slit operation than move to the much smaller concourse D.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15175
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:09 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
D has historically been the other airline concourse, but DL for some reason decided it needed a few gates in there a number of years ago (As if the 80 gates they already have on T, A, and B aren't enough),

DL has had those gates on D for more than a decade. They used to park ATRs there.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
This wouldn't happen in a lot of places other than the US because all the facilities are Common Use. (Even MIA is in this country, and AA is dominant there). Naturally DL would never want ATL to turn into that (Even though they would still get preferential use of all their exisiting infastructure).

Don't these two sentences contradict each other?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
C is half Delta Connection and half WN.

C actually sees more mainline than RJs now-a-days. All a part of DL's master gate plan that started in 2010 when jetways were added on C (and D). Over the past 8 months they've went ahead and removed about 8 gates and now they're parking MD88s/90s, DC9s, 717s, 32s, and 737s on C. Most of the RJs have been pushed over to D concourse.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
D has historically been the other airline concourse, but DL for some reason decided it needed a few gates in there a number of years ago

DL was parking L-1011s on D concourse in the early-mid 90s. In '99/'00 the jetways were swung in (and eventually removed) when EV expanded in ATL and took over those gates on D.
What gets measured gets done.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: AA/UA Gate Swap At ATL A Possibility?

Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):

I think this is in response to the DL-AS war and UA feels its encroaching on their turf, so they are trying to get a piece of it too.

Maybe, but it is a route that has been long rumored to be coming back.

Quoting United1 (Reply 28):
UA has a United Club in ATL already....just upgrading what they already have....

and we have a winner!

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
(As if the 80 gates they already have on T, A, and B aren't enough),

....okay 1 its closer to 70.

but think about what you just typed...... 1,000 flights a day with 70 gates(700+ being mainline). Do you realize what your saying they "should" being doing on a flight per day per gate base? 14ish flights a day per gate........

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
But I think the T gates is something ATL needs to figure out.

Its is for the most part. AA will have to be dealt with some how, but its clear UA isn't willing to move....and i don't think the city is even stupid enough to ask Delta. Its up to AA, put the capital into T to be able to expand it, run a split operation, or move to D.
Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
If WN has fewer on C than DL does on D, would a gate swap work, giving DL all of the C gates (and thus more gates), and then making D WN, and the Common Use gates?

WN won't want to move to D. Its a smaller concourse. In all reality it would be "better" for more of D to become Delta RJ gates. (which as FlyASA said, is more of what is happening with C being used for MDs, 717s and airbus.)

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
DL has had those gates on D for more than a decade. They used to park ATRs there.

     

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
One mega carrier being dominant can be a good thing for an airport, but in this case, with the way the airport is laid out, the airport has dug themselves a hole.

The city built this airport with two hubs in mind, DL on A/B, EA on B/C, International at T and "other" at D.

but expanding the airport and the loss of EA (the the rapid growth of DL) has made it what it is. The city does a good job of letting the airlines work it out, vs stepping in and A pissing off mother Delta or B pissing off the "other" airlines.
I don't think you would see a single person at Delta get mad if they got all of T/A/B/C and WN got most of D with UA/AA/NK/F9 being off on one of the ends.

but that wouldn't be very fair. Its not rocket science how it is now and it works. Everyone seems pretty happy how things are.....why change it just for it to be pretty or just to change?

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