migair54
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Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Today an ET B767 has landed in Arusha, Something unbelievable but already confirmed and in the news all over Tanzania and by some of my friends there. ET-AQW, painted in all white livery. The plane over run the runway by the end and came to a stop in the mud.

Comfirmed by some pilots that are my friends that are in Arusha right now, and the pics are from one of them.

Arusha has a 1700mx30m runway with an elevation of 4600 feet and the biggest plane that operates there are ATR72 from Precision Air and most of the planes there are Caravans, But still with no explanation an ET B767 that was bound to JRO decide to land in Arusha, the runway category, fire services and all the infrastructures are not even close to be ready to accommodate a B767.

latest news reports that they were with the minimum fuel and they didn´t even have fuel to do Mombasa, but I think if this is the case this is so crazy!!!!! MBA is not even 150 NM from JRO. JRO was close due to a Caravan with a flat tyre on the runway.



 
yakima
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:32 pm

I assume they departed ADD. Both ADD-JRO and ADD-ARK is 861 miles with ARK-JRO only 31 miles.

 
LHRlocal
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:45 pm

So, this should prove a lot more challenging to turn around and fly out compared to the Dreamlifter that landed at the wrong airport in the US a little while ago...
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:47 pm

1700m Runway, huh? It will be interesting to see how they get that out of there...
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KarelXWB
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:47 pm

Close-up picture:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbw-DToIIAA2wKe.jpg:large

Source http://twitter.com/pmykee143
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speedbird128
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 3):
1700m Runway, huh? It will be interesting to see how they get that out of there...

No problem I would think. I worked a little coastal airport with 1980m, and had B744 (ok only once), B762, B763, A30B, A332, A342, DC8, IL76 etc operate from that runway... An empty frame will have no problem getting off in 1700m.
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yakima
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:51 pm

What would be the minimum runway length to accommodate this plane, empty?
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:55 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):

Did those have a Field Elevation of 4600'?

I'm not saying it won't happen. Just that I'm pretty sure the front two seat cushions will be inverted V-shaped afterward...
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:55 pm

As a side note, ET-AQW is the oldest plane in the fleet (built in 1989) and was just added in September.


PH

[Edited 2013-12-18 04:56:36]
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vfw614
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:07 pm

It was mentioned in a recent TV report that Airbus A380 on pre-delivery test flights (i.e. fully equipped aircraft) only use half the runway at XFW for take-offs - that is 1.500-1.600m.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:25 pm

I am really curious what the circumstances were that led them to getting to minimum fuel. It sounds like there was a closure at JRO, but I am curious what happened to their fuel reserves to cause them to end up diverting to Arusha since Nairobi is only 150 miles away.

http://www.eturbonews.com/40888/ethi...led-landing-arusha-municipal-field

A very light 767 should be able to land on a dry 5,300ft runway, but only under perfect conditions. Arusha has no ILS or other navigation aids, and the crew would have been under quite a bit of stress, so executing the perfect landing to stay on the runway would be very difficult. It doesn't look too bad with the nose in the mud, but it will take a while go get equipment there capable of moving the airplane.

Quoting yakima (Reply 6):
What would be the minimum runway length to accommodate this plane, empty?

Empty with no fuel on board would require about 4,500ft at that elevation according to the ACAP published on the web. It will be tight, but for a short ferry flight to Kilimanjaro, they should be able to carry minimal fuel and get the airplane out without passengers of the 5,300ft runway.

[Edited 2013-12-18 05:25:47]
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trijetsonly
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:28 pm

Takeoff on 1700m at 4600ft should be quite challenging. I'm looking forward to see, how they will deal with the situation... And I'd like to know why this has happened in the first place.
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asuflyer
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:38 pm

ET-AQW is the replacement plane for the ET-AOP, the 787 which is still being repaired in London.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 7):
Did those have a Field Elevation of 4600'?

No, but those flights weren't empty either. I'd still say getting out of there with only fuel on board would not be an issue for a 763.
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Clydenairways
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 13):
No, but those flights weren't empty either. I'd still say getting out of there with only fuel on board would not be an issue for a 763.

Agree here, should be no problem getting out with an empty aeroplane and minimum fuel, even with this elevation.
 
migair54
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:36 pm

Well, the first problem is getting the plane off the place and align with the runway, there´s no place in ARK capable of accommodating a B767, so I don´t know where are they going to park the plane to do the maintenance, then taxiways are not ready and even the runway is not ready for such a heavy plane, then on both Thresholds there´s no turning area so, they will need to bring a tow tractor from somewhere (NBO) the closest and do all of this. distance to JRO is not even 30 NM.

I can see on the pics the plane landed on runway 27, so means that it was on the app to JRO and turn back to ARK.

It quite confusing for me that an airline like ET flies a B767 to JRO and they don´t have fuel to divert, specially when they have MBA and NBO in less than 150 NM, both with excellent runways, fuel... and both are destinations served by ET. Actually that flight is usually ADD-JRO-MBA-JRO-ADD and they usually refuel in MBA because fuel is much cheaper than in JRO.

Arusha is a pure visual airport with quite a lot of traffic so it even shocking that they knew Arusha airport or how to do an approach into there, Anywhere it´s going to be interesting what´s going on during the next days.
 
ly7e7
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Quoting yakima (Reply 1):
I assume they departed ADD

Actually the routing is ADD-NBO-JRO.
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ly7e7
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):
distance to JRO is not even 30 NM.

Which , given both are next to the same highway, makes me think - can they tow it to JRO?

And the answer is no, since this would involve going through the streets of Arusha  Smile

[Edited 2013-12-18 07:42:30]
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btfarrwm
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):
Arusha is a pure visual airport with quite a lot of traffic so it even shocking that they knew Arusha airport or how to do an approach into there, Anywhere it´s going to be interesting what´s going on during the next days.

I hope there are still pilots out there who can get into trouble, see an airstrip, and land there...without referring to some sort of procedure card.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
I am really curious what the circumstances were that led them to getting to minimum fuel.

   It seems very likely there was a screwup at some point in the process. I hope the results of the investigation are made public.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
Empty with no fuel on board would require about 4,500ft at that elevation according to the ACAP published on the web. It will be tight, but for a short ferry flight to Kilimanjaro, they should be able to carry minimal fuel and get the airplane out without passengers of the 5,300ft runway.

How's the weather? If it's hot, that could seriously screw things up. Looks like Arusha usually has cool evenings even in summer, though.
 
migair54
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):
How's the weather? If it's hot, that could seriously screw things up. Looks like Arusha usually has cool evenings even in summer, though.

The best thing they can do is take off early in morning when the temperature is around 14-15ºc, use runway 09, make a turn on heading 140º and joing the ILS of Arusha on a straight in app, at that time, no traffic, low temp, wind calm and can be coordinate easily.

Quoting btfarrwm (Reply 18):
I hope there are still pilots out there who can get into trouble, see an airstrip, and land there...without referring to some sort of procedure card.

Of course that´s great, sometimes when i´m flying I check on the FMS the nearest airports and I start calculating gliding distance, looking out for them, checking on the AIP, but What I was wondering is that is not an easy airport to find if you are not familiar with it, specially runway 27, you have to overfly the whole city and is not possible to come straight in because of some hills north of Arusha city, my kudos to the pilots.

Quoting ly7e7 (Reply 17):
Which , given both are next to the same highway, makes me think - can they tow it to JRO?

And the answer is no, since this would involve going through the streets of Arusha  

Not even a Caravan.

Today the pax has to wait a couple of hours inside the plane until they brought air stairs from JRO airport, the distance in not very big but the traffic and the road are not really good, plus I don´t think that vehicle is very fast.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting migair54 (Thread starter):
Today an ET B767 has landed in Arusha, Something unbelievable but already confirmed and in the news all over Tanzania and by some of my friends there. ET-AQW, painted in all white livery. The plane over run the runway by the end and came to a stop in the mud.

well, getting that out of there should be a Little more cumbersome than the recent Dreamlifter, wonder what will be done
to get her out of there. anyone know if a very light 76 can do with 1700M?
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Norcal773
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:51 pm

I think the biggest question I have is how the eff did they not have diversion fuel reserve???

On another note, I was looking for a Star Alliance Award ticket to a beach in Jan which had me flying ET ADD-MBA and it sounds like this is part of that flight.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
catiii
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting migair54 (Thread starter):
painted in all white livery.

Why is it all white?
 
migair54
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:55 pm

If any of you want to see more pics and video of the evacuation via slide L-1, go to facebook and look for REGIONAL AIR TANZANIA, plenty of pics and videos,

all the wheels out of runway but the tail of the plane still on the threshold runway 09, 50 more metres of runway and they could have done insite, they made a 90º turn to the right at the end of the runway, they land on 27, airport reopen for small planes landing over the B767 tail, using only 60% of the runway, still more than enough for Caravan, and ligth traffic.
 
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garpd
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:57 pm

Almost no fuel, no cargo, only the two pilots and as much flap as safety will allow. Push it all the way to the very end of the tarmac, so the back wheels are only just on, throttle up to full power under braking, let go when full N1 is achieved and let her rip. Should just make it!
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Norcal773
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 21):
well, getting that out of there should be a Little more cumbersome than the recent Dreamlifter, wonder what will be done
to get her out of there. anyone know if a very light 76 can do with 1700M?

You obviously haven't read the posts above yours!   
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 23):
Why is it all white?

It's temporary lift until they get more 787s (including the repaired ET-AOP). ET-AOP should be coming back this month or next, and three more ET 787s should be delivered 1H 2014.
 
ImperialAero
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:42 pm

Conditions:

Arusha (ARK) which is located 1,386m AMSL, with an average December high temperature of 27 deg C, from a 1,700m runway (assuming ASDA = TODA = 1,700m) and assuming dry runway takeoff;

Aircraft:

ET-AQW which is a non wingletted B767-383ER with PW4060 engines, a manufacturers MTOW of 184,612kg and manufacturers OEW of 90,011kg;

Performance:

TOW of 129,081kg is possible. Assuming and taking off with 2,000kg of cargo (assuming they are carrying only freight that needs to get out of ARK on that aircraft and no pax) the aircraft has a range of 3,730nm. Assuming that the pax still stay on and they're operating with an 80% load factor on the 231 seats, and assuming 100kg per pax and baggage plus 2,000kg cargo as before, the aircraft can make it 1,248nm.

Both scenarios show that there really is no problem getting out of there...
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bthebest
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 24):
50 more metres of runway and they could have done insite

Remember the soft ground would have slowed it significantly so it would probably have taken more than 50m of tarmac
 
Qantas744er
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:52 pm

There is much talk about no alternate fuel etc.

It must be taken into consideration at this point, that the crew may have been acting on information that the situation at JRO with the runway closure would be resolved and thus have committed themselves to JRO by eating into reserve/alternate fuel.

It will be interesting to see how long they were holding for.
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migair54
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 28):
Conditions:

Arusha (ARK) which is located 1,386m AMSL, with an average December high temperature of 27 deg C, from a 1,700m runway (assuming ASDA = TODA = 1,700m) and assuming dry runway takeoff;

Aircraft:

ET-AQW which is a non wingletted B767-383ER with PW4060 engines, a manufacturers MTOW of 184,612kg and manufacturers OEW of 90,011kg;

Performance:

TOW of 129,081kg is possible. Assuming and taking off with 2,000kg of cargo (assuming they are carrying only freight that needs to get out of ARK on that aircraft and no pax) the aircraft has a range of 3,730nm. Assuming that the pax still stay on and they're operating with an 80% load factor on the 231 seats, and assuming 100kg per pax and baggage plus 2,000kg cargo as before, the aircraft can make it 1,248nm.

Both scenarios show that there really is no problem getting out of there...

If you put a 121T plane on the runway in Arusha for take off maybe it sinks, that runway is not prepare, the biggest plane is a 23T ATR. I´m sure they will go out, but otherwise there´s no a nice bar in Arusha airport, so maybe they can use that very old plane for it  

they will take off asap and I think only the pilots and the minimum possible fuel to make Kilimanjaro will be on board, no pax, no cargo, no catering, no cabin crew.

Power on brakes, max thrust and lot of friends taking videos for all over, from the road will be awesome, from the tower... it´s going to be nice.... I hope someone with a camera was around and we can still see the landing.... maybe even the controller with his phone...
 
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kanban
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:07 pm

looking at pictures on JACDEC, it appears that the problem occurred not when landing but in trying to turn around.. since the plane appears to be at a 90 degree angle to the runway. They can probably back it up and finish the turn..
 
RubberJungle
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Any suggestions why the flaps are retracted? Normal shutdown despite the lawn venture?
 
speedbird128
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:14 pm

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 28):
Both scenarios show that there really is no problem getting out of there...

Pretty much what I expected...
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 33):
Any suggestions why the flaps are retracted? Normal shutdown despite the lawn venture?


   Hit the nail on the head.   
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KELPkid
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 20):
Today the pax has to wait a couple of hours inside the plane until they brought air stairs from JRO airport, the distance in not very big but the traffic and the road are not really good, plus I don´t think that vehicle is very fast.

Just deploy an evacuation slide    Okay, that would cost your company $20,000 right off the bat...  
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RubberJungle
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 36):
Just deploy an evacuation slide

Looks like the slides were blown:

http://tinyurl.com/n8qzkj2
 
sandyb123
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:57 pm

ET have posted the following statement on their website

Quote:

Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET-815 of 18 December 2013 on a scheduled service from Addis Ababa to Kilimanjaro was unable to land at Kilimanjaro Airport due to disabled light aircraft on the runway.

While landing at Arusha Airport , it’s nose gear slightly went off the runway. All passengers and crew deplaned safely.

Ethiopian Airlines regrets the delay during the disembarking process and apologizes to all passengers on-board the flight for the inconveniences caused.
http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/news/default.aspx

Hmm, something doesn't sound quite right there. A light plane disabled on the runway at KIL? Surely there is a more suitable divert airport such as MBA or NBO?

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awthompson
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:50 am

Are we all to old to remember the Air Canada Gimli incident? Thats the first thing came to my mind here.
Also a 767, a -200 albeit and an even shorter runway.
 
Norcal773
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 39):
Are we all to old to remember the Air Canada Gimli incident? Thats the first thing came to my mind here.
Also a 767, a -200 albeit and an even shorter runway.

Funny you said that because that's the first thing that came to mind!
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roseflyer
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:44 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 36):

Just deploy an evacuation slide Okay, that would cost your company $20,000 right off the bat...

Haha, and also guarantee that a dozen people will be headed to the hospital.
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Viscount724
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting awthompson (Reply 39):
Are we all to old to remember the Air Canada Gimli incident? Thats the first thing came to my mind here.
Also a 767, a -200 albeit and an even shorter runway.

How long was the Gimli runway in 1983? It's 6,800 ft. now and I doubt it's been lengthened during that period.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting qantas744er (Reply 30):
It must be taken into consideration at this point, that the crew may have been acting on information that the situation at JRO with the runway closure would be resolved and thus have committed themselves to JRO by eating into reserve/alternate fuel.

It is not legal under any regulations to burn into alternate fuel for any reason other than diverting to that alternate. Reserve fuel under any regulation cannot be used as holding fuel. If you are down to reserve fuel, you must be finding a landing point. You can legally depending on the regulations and ops specs for an airline remove an alternate which frees up that fuel for holding but no crew or dispatcher would consider this unless it was a near certainty that the extra hold fuel would result in a landing at the destination.

If the flight crew burned through alternate and reserve fuel trying to hold, that captain would likely never ever fly again. His license would likely be revoked in short order.

The most likely scenario is that through some regulatory means, the flight was dispatched with no alternate fuel and nothing but the regulatory minimum fuel. When the airport closed in JRO, they had no alternate fuel and not much if any usable fuel to hold with and were down to their reserves. With not many options they just landed at the nearest piece of concrete they could find.

Remember, depending on the regulations you are operating under you may not require one single drop of usable holding/contingency fuel. For example, in US FARs all you need domestically to be legal is enough fuel to fly to destination, get to alternate if weather requires an alternate and then your 45 mins FAR fuel. The 45 mins reserve cant be used for holding or contingency fuel but it can be used to find a landing point if an airport closes unexpectedly. If the regs being followed in this case were something similar, its easy to imagine it happening.

[Edited 2013-12-18 21:24:07]
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:35 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 38):
Hmm, something doesn't sound quite right there. A light plane disabled on the runway at KIL? Surely there is a more suitable divert airport such as MBA or NBO?

Regulations basically spell out and pilots are taught that if you are down to only your reserve fuel, find the closest adequate airport to land at. If it happens to also be a suitable airport, even better. You arent going to see many pilots with only reserve fuel try to fly 150 nm when they see a possible adequate airport much closer. When you are down to only reserve fuel, its considered an emergency situation.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 43):
It is not legal under any regulations to burn into alternate fuel for any reason other than diverting to that alternate

In most other countries, the concept of landing-assured is used/played, allowing for the flight crew to consume all of its alternate fuel, holding for the destination, if the chance of landing at the destination is reasonably assured (wx not deteriorating, CAVOK, etc).
The caveat being that the minimum landing fuel is 30min total final reserve.
Could be a scenario where the crew was relayed an overly optimistic estimated approach time from ATC, based on what appeared to be a quick fix. Decided to consume the alternate fuel it may have had for Nairobi or Mombasa.
After the quick fix failed to materialized they had to get creative holding over KB NDB.
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fridgmus
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RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:08 am

Gee, and I thought they landed somewhere in Arkansas! Oops.   
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:41 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 31):
If you put a 121T plane on the runway in Arusha for take off maybe it sinks, that runway is not prepare, the biggest plane is a 23T ATR. I´m sure they will go out, but otherwise there´s no a nice bar in Arusha airport, so maybe they can use that very old plane for it

Googled an old photo showing of a 737-200 in Arusha so maybe the pavement is not as weak as people make out. Couldn't find a link to the official docs to look up the pavement code though..
A full 732 has roughly similar pavement requirements as an empty 763.

They just need to send an aircraft recovery team down by road and have it out in a jiffy
 
76er
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:01 am

It should be a piece of cake getting it out. An empty 767-300ER weighs about 90 metric tons, load it with about 10 tons of fuel (which is more than enough to make it to JRO) en just let those 120.000 pounds of thrust go. It will be airborne in the time the crew can call out "Thrust set', "80 knots", "V1", "rotate". The runway performance of a near empty 763ER is mindblowing.
 
photolppt
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:17 pm

RE: Breaking News, ET B767 Lands In ARK!

Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:28 am

Just the other day I watched the 'Mayday' show about TACA flight 110 which landed on a grass levee near MSY after a double engine flameout.

Granted it was a 737, but the solution to remove the plane? They did an engine repair on site, emptied the plane to minimum fuel, and simply took off and landed at MSY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110

Cheers,
Alex

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