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cougar15
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Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:28 am

... being pretty sure we are all a bit bored over X-mas, I thought (yes I know.....yet again), we would discuss this subject (Silkair 185) , especially in light of recent Events in regards to the LAM E19...
Now, being as curious as I am, as always..... I would welcome your opinions!
Honeywell payed out (cival Suite l) , but, as a most respected member pointed out, without hearing CVR transcipts etc etc....

What are your views, we had considerable ´contradiction..... 'between the final NTSB Report, versus what ´local´authorities considered to be the Major cause of the, very sad accident!
It has been many years since, what do we - the A Net community - think today after objectivey seeing/reading 'both sides of the coin.... ?

- Pliot Suicide.....
- The much famned ´rudder hardover´ on the 73/234XXXX?

Merry Xmas guys!

[Edited 2013-12-22 16:51:33]
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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Ab345
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:23 am

It really seemed like pilot suicide to me personally. The fact that the circuit braker for the CVR was switched off was pretty suspicious. Plus all the personal info on the captains' financial state.
 
Okie
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 1):
. The fact that the circuit braker for the CVR was switched off was pretty suspicious. Plus all the personal info on the captains' financial state

He turned off the FDR which was heard on the CVR before turning off the CVR. Which was analyzed by the NTSB as the sound of the breaker being physically pulled vs a different sound tripping.
If he had pulled the CVR first then there would always be a question, he just left a trail of evidence in the order he did things.

Okie
 
SKY1
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 1):
It really seemed like pilot suicide to me personally.

I have a tend to think it was a mechical failure from the Power Control Unit. There is none evidence, but that PCU had problems before.

On the other hand a company don't accept to pay $43 million because nothing

It was and today still is a bit controversial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

But there is not any single evidence to accuse the captain anyway.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Okie
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 3):
On the other hand a company don't accept to pay $43 million because nothing

I think the figure was $130M that Silkair was to pay the victims families when trial was held in Singapore with charges of Suicide-Murder.
Unfortunately, many of the families had previously settled for $200K and did not receive additional monies.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 3):
But there is not any single evidence to accuse the captain anyway

If he had robbed a bank he would have left his driver license with the teller.

Read the US NTSB report, and the report by Singapore authorities (NTSC)

Okie
 
rfields5421
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:46 am

It is pretty clear from the evidence that the pilot purposely crashed the aircraft.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 3):
On the other hand a company don't accept to pay $43 million because nothing

We don't know how much they paid. And it was not Boeing who paid.

Yes, companies do pay amounts like that 'because nothing'.

Their accountants and lawyers can analyze the cost of lawsuits, the costs of appeals, the cost to their business. The cost of the trial would likely exceed $10 million. An appeal can be twice as costly, along with the possibility of class action status for other families and other crashes.

$43 million as a 'cut your losses and be done with it' is not unheard of happening, not a really high amount.
 
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neutrino
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:22 am

Suicide? For your own credibility's sake, not that misinformed, ill-informed and un-informed statement/opinion again!!!
Its getting onerous.

How much of you smart Alecs know about Captain Tsu? Zilch, I would say.
He was my former colleague at the Air Force for quite a number of years.
Though not exactly buddies, we do party together, downing mugs of beer almost on a monthly basis.

He was not a common pilot but a PAI or Pilot Attack Instructor, and its not on such highly-skilled warriors' psyche to commit or even contemplate suicide; let alone murder of his other fellow 103 occupants of the doomed flight.
I attended his funeral-sans-body shortly after his death and have spoken to his former and current colleagues (including two of his Silkair rotational co-pilots), and also his distraught but still composed wife.

All were aghast and flabbergasted at the swirling rumours. For goodness, sake, he was nett positive financially. The press highlighted/sensationalized his debts but his not paid-for assets. True that he was not very liquid as he was heavily committed on his new house and a bunch of other things but then so was I and every other Joe. He was also excited about and busy preparing for his dear father's upcoming birthday.

From his friends, colleagues and family's mouth there was NOTHING untoward about him in the days leading to that fateful event.
So PLEASE, don't further perpetrate that idiotic rumour. Let him rest in peace.

I was actually initially booked on that flight; being supposed to go over to Jakarta on the 16th and back for the Saturday morning machine commissioning ceremony of a Singapore customer. In the event, my Indonesian client postponed his scheduled machine installation....and therefore here I am typing this. Not so fortunate for another industry acquaintance of mine who was on that flight home after closing a multi-million dollar deal.

Another Silkair captain whom I know reasonably well - a New Zealander - whose flight stewardess girlfriend also perished on 9V-TRF was so devastated that he resigned shortly thereafter. There's also a few other lesser acquaintances of mine now under the murky depths of Musi River, and many others who were directly affected by MI185's sad fate - that's why I can't tolerate ignorant people on here mouthing nonsense.
*Rant over*
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
SKY1
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:08 am

Quoting okie (Reply 4):
Read the US NTSB report, and the report by Singapore authorities (NTSC)

I did read it! And sorry, but I can't be agree with it; by the way, there was 2 report none of them made by Singapore authorities but by the Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee which is pretty more accurate than the NTSB one. I do NOT believe in the suicide theory.

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
So PLEASE, don't further perpetrate that idiotic rumour. Let him rest in peace.

  

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
- that's why I can't tolerate ignorant people on here mouthing nonsense.

True, specially when there is not any single evidence to sustain that nonsense. There was and still today there's rumor but not evidence.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:36 am

People can be haunted by demons, you never really know what is going on in another man's head. Even if he is your best friend for decades, the truth is we all keep some things hidden.

Whereas not overwhelming enough for some, it does appear that this was intentional suicide, not unlike Egyptair. Until compelling evidence of another mechanical fault arises, that's what will stick.
The PCU was ruled out btw, it's worth understanding how and why.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:40 am

The waters are muddied by the time it took to to resolve the 737 rudder problem but given the evidence of the pulled circuit breakers and that both FDR and CVR went off line I'd be inclined to look at foul play... We will never know for certain of course.
BV
 
MEA-707
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
People can be haunted by demons, you never really know what is going on in another man's head. Even if he is your best friend for decades, the truth is we all keep some things hidden.

  
With all sympathy for the poster of message 6 as it's a usual and understandable reaction of family and friends of someone who commits suicide or commits a crime. Some things are too horrible to understand or accept.
Similar reactions of people surrounding the RAM and Egyptair suicide flights in the 1990s; Western complot covering up faults of their plane, Muslims never do this, etc etc while the reports spoke clear words.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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cougar15
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:50 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 9):
The waters are muddied by the time it took to to resolve the 737 rudder problem but given the evidence of the pulled circuit breakers and that both FDR and CVR went off line I'd be inclined to look at foul play... We will never know for certain of course.

I sayed it before and will say it again, the Frame in question was hauntedly known for it´s electrical issues!
Clicking sounds on the CVR... well, how about CVR and FDR failing on multiple occasions prior to this Event and again, that is well documented.

so that leaves us with a ´clicking Sound´.... this poor Skipper probably just opened his Softdrink can and there is our ´click´...

Could Boeing, could the US Aviation Market, heck - could the most widely used aircraft on earth afford yet another ´rudder hardover´ Event in those times.....???
RIP for the Captain and all the poor souls aboard!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 11):

Could Boeing, could the US Aviation Market, heck - could the most widely used aircraft on earth afford yet another ´rudder hardover´ Event in those times.....???

Did you read the part where they *explained* why it was dismissed as a theory? What did you think of the modelling?
 
RubberJungle
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:48 pm

I came downstairs one morning to find a half-chewed dead mouse on my kitchen floor. I can't prove the cat brought it in, so it might have been my wife.
 
SKY1
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 10):
Similar reactions of people surrounding the RAM and Egyptair suicide flights in the 1990s; Western complot covering up faults of their plane, Muslims never do this, etc etc while the reports spoke clear words

OK, but the Egyptair flight 990 case had nothing to do with the Silk Air 185 accident. On the first case there was only 1 investigation, on the second one there was 2 different reports saying different conclusion.

On the 1990's happened at least 3 accidents because the 737 PCU manufactured by Parker Hannifin. Unlike the MS-990 crash, it's more admissible assume that there was a technical failure than a suicide.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
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cougar15
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 14):
OK, but the Egyptair flight 990 case had nothing to do with the Silk Air 185 accident. On the first case there was only 1 investigation, on the second one there was 2 different reports saying different conclusion.

I will totatlly second this, the circumstances were completely different !
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 14):
OK, but the Egyptair flight 990 case had nothing to do with the Silk Air 185 accident.

They are both pilot suicides so you should not say "nothing to do with" as there is a clear similarity.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 14):
On the 1990's happened at least 3 accidents because the 737 PCU manufactured by Parker Hannifin. Unlike the MS-990 crash, it's more admissible assume that there was a technical failure than a suicide.

The PCU was the immediate suspicion, there would have been little to gain in covering it up. It was a recent know fatal flaw. Yet in this case, when the modelling of the trajectory was done, it could not be made to tally with the PCU behaviour. When the CVR data was replayed and further investigations were made the suicide of the pilot was named as the likely cause. It's not a case of Boeing just denying it was the PCU.
 
awthompson
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:59 pm

You asked for peoples opinions/gut feelings. I recently (within last 6 months) watched a documentary where the case was re-opened and a further private investigation was carried out.

After that I changed from believing the suicide theory to believing that this was a rudder PCU fault. After the more recent private investigation, as far as I was aware, the manufacturer of the PCU accepted that the PCU was likely the cause of the sudden uncontrollable dive and paid out further compensation. By the way, the PCU was the only item from the whole wreckage that was still in existence when this more recent investigation was carried out. Independent forensic tests carried out on the actual PCU did uncover tolerance anomalies which could have caused it to fail. All the events on the flight deck which seemed like they were intentional were all explained. There had been previous faults/failures with the CVR on this aircraft etc.

The media at the time of the accident sensationalized the fact that the captain had just recently signed a life insurance policy and of course all the world immediately falsely jumped to conclusions. The fact was that he had just taken a mortgage and it is normally the case that you take out life assurance on large mortgages. My financial advisor did not give me much choice in the matter each time I have taken out a mortgage. There was nothing else in the captain's life that could has suggested a possible suicide. I tend therefore to side with NEUTRINO, also SKY1.

I cannot accept that simulator trials as part of initial investigation having difficulty making a similar profile dive from a rudder hard over meant that it could not have been a rudder hard over. Simulators are programmed to behave like a real aircraft but only in all 'known' scenarios and cannot accurately simulate every single possibility. The truth is that no-one knows how a 737 might react to a sudden full rudder hard over in the cruise. Someone correct me if I am wrong but none of the previous 737 rudder hard over incidents happened in the cruise portion of the flight, they were all at low altitude and slower speeds.

Unfortunately I did not record that documentary and I cannot remember all the details now, however it convinced me that suicide was not the cause. (Before I get shot down, this was a well made documentary and not one of those typical sensationalised examples. I'm normally slow to be convinced by TV documentaries.)
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:20 pm

I recently saw a documentary where they concluded that it was pilot suicide. When trying to find the program on youtube, I found a very similar one (and initially thought it was the program I watched previously) where they leave the question open whether it was pilot suicide or a rudder fault. It's difficult to know what to believe after watching the second program I think.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 18):

Thanks, I think Neutrino in Post 6 hit the nail on the head. And I do know both Docu´s being reffered to in this thread, one being the recent ACI/Mayday
Version and the other being the ´Seconds from Disaster´ series, with an entirely different approach on the root causes!
There was the official NTSB view on things (with my old mate Greg doing ´most of the rooting´.....) and of course there was the ´differing view´ of the ID,SG and AU Bodies involved in the Investigation, and those VERY much varied from the NTSB take on things........
We will never know, but this old Aussie would fly with the Skipper in question again anytime, even almost 20 yrs on.....!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
hivue
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 17):
this was a well made documentary and not one of those typical sensationalised examples.

The one I saw somewhere on youtube led the viewer around by the nose to believe it was suicide, then in the middle of the program sprang the PCU issue and some hero lawyer looking out for the deceased passengers' survivors. Those programs are designed to manipulate the viewers' emotions.

The aircraft was comprehensively destroyed (the documentary I mentioned said no human remains were ever recovered) and no FDR and very little CVR, so there was not exactly a wealth of evidence.

The "he could never have done that -- I knew him" argument doesn't hold water. An acquaintance of mine recently killed himself on the job in quite spectacular fashion. The last person on earth I would have imagined would do that. On the other hand stuff does break on airplanes, and the NTSB, as I'm sure they would admit, are not infallible. I say chalk this one up to "cause unknown."
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
lowbank
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:20 pm

I am with the rudder hard over.
Simulators are programmed and as in the thrust reviser deployment case can be wrong . It took Niki Lauda demanding to see if it was programmed incorrectly to find the truth. Once reprogrammed correctly no one could save an aircraft in cruise with a deployed reverser. Reversers were then designed with three locking mechanisms .
One component malfunction causing a rudder hard over SHOUTS redesign to me.
I would be interested to see the design drawing for the component. I bet in today's world the tolerances would be declared as unmanufacturable/measurable.
Every days a school day.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 20):
The one I saw somewhere on youtube led the viewer around by the nose to believe it was suicide, then in the middle of the program sprang the PCU issue and some hero lawyer looking out for the deceased passengers' survivors. Those programs are designed to manipulate the viewers' emotions.

both mentioned were either on Nat Geo or Discovery! Whilst they do (both) want to keep us entertained, I cant share your view...... ! Sorry to hear about your friend!
cheers
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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andrefranca
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
He was not a common pilot but a PAI or Pilot Attack Instructor, and its not on such highly-skilled warriors' psyche to commit or even contemplate suicide

I used to think my father was sane until he tried to shoot my mom out of nothing, in thesis your theory is not valid.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 7):
True, specially when there is not any single evidence to sustain that nonsense. There was and still today there's rumor but not evidence.
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
People can be haunted by demons, you never really know what is going on in another man's head. Even if he is your best friend for decades, the truth is we all keep some things hidden.

Bottom line: Maybe we'll never know.
 
penguins
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 7):
I did read it! And sorry, but I can't be agree with it; by the way, there was 2 report none of them made by Singapore authorities but by the Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee which is pretty more accurate than the NTSB one. I do NOT believe in the suicide theory.
Quoting cougar15 (Reply 19):
There was the official NTSB view on things (with my old mate Greg doing ´most of the rooting´.....) and of course there was the ´differing view´ of the ID,SG and AU Bodies involved in the Investigation, and those VERY much varied from the NTSB take on things........


I think that both of you have forgotten several key facts.
1. The PCU was found; ruling out malfunction.
2. The screw that control the aileron shows that the plane was intentionally placed in a nose dive
3. In simulations, tinghe only way the investigators could achieve the type of dive that flight 185 went through was by intentionally point the control column hard down.
And here is the killer:
4. The Indonesian NTSC came to the conclusion that it was a suicide but the Chairman overruled it. Obviously a political coverup

I recommend you watch this documentary, very informative:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12...to-the-limit-webrip-mp4-1_creation
 
lutfi
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:48 am

We will never know what really happened. Balance of probabilities though it was pilot suicide.
 
texdravid
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:59 am

I am so sick and tired of the apologists who come out and say that this Silkair crash and the infamous Egyptair crash were "malfunctions".

These were clear cut, indisputable examples of pilot suicide/homicide. Both Indonesian and Egyptian governments were highly embarrassed and scared of litigation, so they flat out LIED about some mechanical issues.

Frankly, these two flights were horrible murders of innocents. The pilots involved deserve no sympathy nor deserve any benefit of doubt. They deserve the title of mass murderers, or cowards.

Save the speculation for real mysteries like TWA 800, not cases like these.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
RubberJungle
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:29 am

Quoting texdravid (Reply 26):
The pilots involved deserve no sympathy

Sorry, but that's utter nonsense. It's exactly that sort of ill-informed statement that stops anyone talking about mental illness, especially in men - the group most likely to resort to devastating measures as they become more desperate to cope.

Mental illness is a terrible affliction - often undiagnosed for years - that causes illogical and distorted trains of thought among those unfortunate enough to suffer it. No-one asks for it. Everyone is vulnerable to it. That includes every member of this forum, their families and their friends. And everyone who suffers from it absolutely deserves sympathy.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:19 am

Quoting texdravid (Reply 26):

TWA 800 isn't a mystery though, the official explanation by the investigation team sounds logical enough.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 19):
Thanks

Well I'm still leaning more towards the suicide theory, but I wouldn't rule out the other theory completely.
 
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garpd
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:11 pm

Pilot suicide. The NTSB did a very thorough and objective investigation. SilkAir 185 was pilot suicide. There is no doubt about it.
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UALWN
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 26):
Save the speculation for real mysteries like TWA 800, not cases like these.

So you blindly trust the NTSB report on SilkAir 185 (even if other reports disagree), but you disregard the NTSB report on TWA 800? Did the NTSB "LIED" too, as you claim the Indonesian agency did?
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
loalq
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 20):
The "he could never have done that -- I knew him" argument doesn't hold water.

Regardless of what happened, this is absolutely right. Not everyone goes around parading their demons and saying they will kill themselves any second now. Suicide is more often than not a split second decision that even the perpetrators themselves would regret doing if given the chance to get over that one strong moment of pain. Also, there is a high rate of suicide in the military and ex-military personnel, regardless of the training they had before.

How was the descent profile of the Egyptair flight? I personally consider the Silkair event, with an almost vertical descent, more than the LAM event (steep vertical plus horizontal descent) a more "classic" definition of how a suicide flight would end, but I don't know how it was for the Egyptair.
"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
 
71Zulu
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:07 pm

Article supporting the suicide theory, the Captain's life sure was falling apart at the time of the crash.

http://newsstore.theage.com.au/apps/...sPage=1&docID=news990710_0523_1914
 
Maverick623
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
and its not on such highly-skilled warriors' psyche to commit or even contemplate suicide

Then explain why highly-trained warriors are coming back home from war and killing themselves at a far greater rate than the general public?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
debonair
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:12 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 33):
Article supporting the suicide theory

This article is very interesting, especially:

"Insiders say the parts of the investigation relating to the suicide are kept in a separate file."

Few years back, I met the ex Boeing fleet Captain of Silk Air and he confirmed the suicide theories and investigations...
 
AirStein3
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:45 pm

I think that it was a rudder hardover problem. If you look at the other two flights that crashed in the same fashion
within the 5 previous years, they looked nearly exactly the same as SilkAir 185. The NTSB conducted a test on the Parker-Hannafin (dont know how to spell Hannafin) rudder control system when it was at the temperature that it would be in when in flight, and it jammed multiple times. I'm aware of the state of the captain's life, but I find it hard to believe that the captain would have crashed his airplane the way he did, if there wasn't a rudder hardover.

PS: It is much easier to crash an airplane by simply pushing down on the control column than rolling over, becoming inverted, then nose diving.
 
mandala499
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:05 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 4):
Read the US NTSB report, and the report by Singapore authorities (NTSC)

NTSC is Indonesian not Singaporean.

Quoting penguins (Reply 24):
4. The Indonesian NTSC came to the conclusion that it was a suicide but the Chairman overruled it.

The NTSC chairman at the time, recently passed away, taking the secrets with him. Interesting guy to talk to while he was alive. He knew that the results of the investigation would be used for litigation and other trials (it wasn't covered by our law to not be used for anything other than safety investigation, at that time), so he refused to conclude that it was suicide, and he also refused to conclude that it was a PCU fault. There were heavy political pressures for the investigation to conclude either way.

Quoting texdravid (Reply 26):
Both Indonesian and Egyptian governments were highly embarrassed and scared of litigation, so they flat out LIED about some mechanical issues.

Why would the Indonesian government be embarrassed and scared of litigation? Please enlighten all of us! The accident didn't involve an Indonesian airline nor an Indonesian registered aircraft...

At that time Garuda was rejuvenating the narrowbody fleet with 737-300/400/500s... from our side, it would have been easier to conclude that it was suicide and bury everything under the carpet...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
rfields5421
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RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting AirStein3 (Reply 36):
they looked nearly exactly the same as SilkAir 185.

They really don't look like the SilkAir crash.

Especially since we have FDR data and CVR data from both which show what happened.

Yes, CVR and FDR data is not available in many crashes due to damage - but not this one. The other times CVR and FDR data is stopped before the crash actually happens is cases like Swiss Air 111 where the fire was demonstrated to burn through the data cables.

That didn't happen with this crash.

Someone manually pulled the circuit breaker to shut off the CVR - and the Captain was the only one in the cockpit when that happened.
 
71Zulu
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

RE: Silkair 185 - What Really Happened?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting AirStein3 (Reply 36):
PS: It is much easier to crash an airplane by simply pushing down on the control column than rolling over, becoming inverted, then nose diving.

But in the military you don't push over (negative G's are bad), you roll inverted then pull...and Ming was a fighter pilot so this would have been natural maneuver for him to do.

Also how do you explain that the autothrottle was disconnected and both engines were at full power when the aircraft hit the river? Attempting to recover from a Mach 1 dive with both engines wide open? I don't think so.

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