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SPQR
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Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:15 am

Video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d20_1387706399&comments=1

Article:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...re/engine-of-singapore/928234.html

Ignore the title of the video, says its a 787.

Obviously whomever parked that trailer there is going to be let go, but will the pilot also wear it as (s)he should have seen that the trailer and container were in a dangerous spot?
 
AA737-823
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:38 am

The captain is following the instruction of the marshaller. And, while I'm the LAST person to NOT blame flight crew for things, I gotta say that in this case, they're not responsible.
I wonder whether the container was secured to the dolly properly. They're normally latched down, which should help to prevent this sort of thing. Either way, the train of dollies was obviously too close to the aircraft.
Bummer.
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DocLightning
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:03 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
And, while I'm the LAST person to NOT blame flight crew for things, I gotta say that in this case, they're not responsible.

Shouldn't they have seen it there while they were taxiing to the gate?

Anyway, thank heavens it wasn't a 787. The media would have had a field day!
-Doc Lightning-

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CXfirst
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:12 am

Quoting SPQR (Thread starter):
Obviously whomever parked that trailer there is going to be let go,

Not necessarily. It is the responsibility of the marshaller or engineer who marshals the aircraft in (or sets up the guidance system) to make sure that the bay is clear of all FOD (Foreign Engine Debris) or anything else. That includes ground equipment. The person that parked the things there could have parked it way earlier before any aircraft was due to come in. He could have parked it, with the intentions of another colleague to pick them up to load or take away, etc.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
They're normally latched down,

The dollies at my place of work stop lateral movement, but not vertical movement very well. In this case, the engine pulled the container straight up. Latches don't work too well there.

-CXfirst
 
andz
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:04 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Anyway, thank heavens it wasn't a 787. The media would have had a field day!

The LiveLeak article linked says it WAS a 787.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
aklrno
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:24 am

I have no idea what language the guy on the video was speaking, but did I hear the word "blender" used?
 
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neutrino
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:50 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):
I have no idea what language the guy on the video was speaking, but did I hear the word "blender" used?

He's speaking Malay with a sprinkling of English words, and yes you did hear "blender".
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bueb0g
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:57 am

Quoting andz (Reply 4):
The LiveLeak article linked says it WAS a 787.

But the aircraft in the video is clearly a 777 so the title was ignored.
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curlyheadboy
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:27 pm

Is Idle power creating enough suction to cause this, or was the engine spooled up a bit?
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infinit
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:29 pm

Yikes.. my guess is the whole engine will have to be replaced?

Is there a chance the engine can be salvaged?

Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):
I have no idea what language the guy on the video was speaking, but did I hear the word "blender" used?

err.. Malay, Singapore's national language!
 
rfields5421
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting curlyheadboy (Reply 8):
Is Idle power creating enough suction to cause this, or was the engine spooled up a bit?

Possibly idle power, but it looks to me like the engines had to be powered up a bit to pull the plane forward after it had stopped. Idle power usually isn't enough to get a plane rolling again if it stops.
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BoeingMerica
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 4):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Anyway, thank heavens it wasn't a 787. The media would have had a field day!

I can see the title on CNN now "Runaway 787 engine eats passengers luggage!!!!!"
Subtitle: "Should Boeing ground the plane to investigate how an engine could do this?"

The LiveLeak article linked says it WAS a 787.

Yep, and the title of this post says 777 and the info in the poster's opening comment says to ignore the fact that liveleak has labeled it a 787.

So what's your point?

Liveleak is like the baby of TMZ and YouTube. Their editors couldn't tell the difference between the Wright flyer and a A380. Media today is about sensationalism, not facts.

BoeingMerica
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cougar15
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Anyway, thank heavens it wasn't a 787. The media would have had a field day!

I gotta second that one, we would have 5 new threads instantly on this dammed dangerous 787!!

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MillwallSean
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:20 pm

Hmm id say a few people will have a rather rough Christmas with this accident and possible repercussions hanging over them. Someone made a mistake with the placement, someone didnt notice it when they guided the plane there and the pilots didn't see it either. All will sleep very bad the coming days.

SQ management dont like such incidents. Question is whose going to pay for that and how they will make sure it doesnt happen again. Better not be one of their expat pilots in that plane. That would mean alot of temptation for some in management...

Quoting infinit (Reply 9):

err.. Malay, Singapore's national language!

Ah stirring the pot are we. Malay is one of the four offocial languages. But with less than 20% of the population (13% official stats) speaking it we can excuse most for not understanding it.
English, Mandarin, Malay and Tamil are the recognised four official languages of Singapore but try finding a roadsign in another language than English etc...
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ETinCaribe
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:24 pm

What comes out on the other side? Any other videos/photos? I would be surprised it there were not dozens of shots from each window seat on the 777.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Anyway, thank heavens it wasn't a 787. The media would have had a field day!

LOL, my thought exactly.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
SQ management dont like such incidents.

Who likes them, I wonder out loud…
 
jfk777
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:50 pm

OOOOPS. That Rolls Trent ate that WHOLE. Where did it happen, Manila ?
 
eljas
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 4):
The LiveLeak article linked says it WAS a 787.

Common sense says it can't be a 787, SQ don't have any yet!
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:24 pm

As I recall, there was a similar incident involving a Delta L1011 some years back. There was a nice still picture showing the container lodged in the cowl of the RB211, as if someone had simply placed it there. With this latest SQ escapade, I'm tempted to suggest some marketing jingle "Baggage containers love Rolls Royce power, and so will you!" 
 
BoeingMerica
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
OOOOPS. That Rolls Trent ate that WHOLE. Where did it happen, Manila ?

"The incident happened as the Boeing 777 (SQ421) flight from Mumbai was taxiing into the bay at Changi Airport."

This is literally the second sentence of the article you clearly did not read.

But yes, this happened at Manilla.
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neutrino
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting eljas (Reply 16):
Common sense says it can't be a 787, SQ don't have any yet!

Ah, but that's a commodity that journos seem to woefully lack in matters they have no clue of...which is helluva lot.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
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fxramper
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:30 pm

I really can't believe ground staff allowed this to happen. That said, if this had happend to any FX a/c, the ramp manager, the ramp agent running the flight, and several material handlers on ramp would be disciplined if not fired.
 
Lentini2001
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:34 pm

Needs to go into one of those 'will it blend' youtube videos I think  
 
migair54
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:46 pm

Even if the captain or the f/o are following the marshaller intructions is always responsability of the captain and F/O to comfirm that the plane is safe, And that container was there since they aligned with the parking, so no excuse for them.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting Lentini2001 (Reply 21):
Needs to go into one of those 'will it blend' youtube videos I think  

Like the mx tech that got ground up in ELP by a CO jet?

Quoting migair54 (Reply 22):
Even if the captain or the f/o are following the marshaller intructions is always responsability of the captain and F/O to comfirm that the plane is safe, And that container was there since they aligned with the parking, so no excuse for them.

I agree 100%.
 
andz
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:12 pm

In this country, if you park at an airbridge there is no marshal, the pilot follows the signage ahead of him (her) on the terminal building, whose responsibility is it in that case?
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neutrino
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):

Quoting infinit (Reply 9):

err.. Malay, Singapore's national language!

Ah stirring the pot are we. Malay is one of the four offocial languages. But with less than 20% of the population (13% official stats) speaking it we can excuse most for not understanding it.
English, Mandarin, Malay and Tamil are the recognised four official languages of Singapore but try finding a roadsign in another language than English etc..

But as infinit said, Malay - one of the four Official Languages - is The National Language. I agree with you on the point that only a minority use and understand it.
A good read though I don't agree with some points in there:-
http://gintai.wordpress.com/2012/07/...he-national-language-of-singapore/
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AA94
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:18 pm

CNN headline: Dangerous 787 EATS baggage cart in cold blood: Are travelers safe?

Cue the inevitable "the 787 is a dangerous flying death trap!" thread.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 9):
Is there a chance the engine can be salvaged?

Given the fact that the can was reduced to high-velocity shrapnel, it's a testament to Boeing/GE's engineering that the damage wasn't worse. I'm no engineer, but my guess is that that very expensive engine just got turned into a very cheap engine.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 22):
Even if the captain or the f/o are following the marshaller intructions is always responsability of the captain and F/O to comfirm that the plane is safe, And that container was there since they aligned with the parking, so no excuse for them.

That's what I'm thinking. It would be different had the can rolled into place after the cockpit had passed that point, making it impossible for the flight crew to see it. But in this case, shouldn't they have seen it sitting there before they made their turn into the gate?
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Viscount724
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:45 pm

[/quote]

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 17):
As I recall, there was a similar incident involving a Delta L1011 some years back. There was a nice still picture showing the container lodged in the cowl of the RB211,


Photo below, Caption says it was 2001.

 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:48 pm

Oooops!       

This incident happened at Singapore Changi on Thursday afternoon, 19th December. The aircraft was 9V-SRP, a Boeing 777-212(ER) powered by 2 x RR Trent 884

I hope they swept behind the plane afterwards!

[Edited 2013-12-23 12:50:03]
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DocLightning
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):
Photo below, Caption says it was 2001

Yes. The difference is that the can would (and does, evidently) fit into the intake of the Trent 800 (not GE-90 as I thought it was earlier).
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burchfiel
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:05 pm

Would be interesting to see pictures of the luggage post-blend. Although I'm sorry for those who lost their bags -- and for SQ, who evidently lost an engine.

Although somewhat OT, did you know that a human has survived a trip through a jet engine? I forget the details but there's an amazing story on it.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 31):
Would be interesting to see pictures of the luggage post-blend. Although I'm sorry for those who lost their bags -- and for SQ, who evidently lost an engine.

Nobody lost their bags. The news article in the opening post says the container was empty.
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:23 pm

Some of the stuff which people write on here is truly ridiculous. I've worked as a dispatcher at MAN for almost 4 years and have plenty of experience in bringing aircraft onto stand.

I'm going to break it down into two sections... Ground crew and Flight crew.

Ground Crew
The container should not have been left where it was but like stated further up, who knows why it was there...

The person who brought the aircraft on should have done a FOD (Foreign Object Debris) check and made sure the stand was clear and safe for the aircraft, had this been done properly, the aircraft would've been held off the stand while the container was moved.

At an airport, these containers are everywhere and very easy to be blind to. You get so used to seeing them that you tend to ignore them, complacency sets in!

Flight Crew
The flight crew do a quick scan of the stand prior to pulling on. They don't have time to stop, spend a few minutes checking and then bring the aircraft on.

The crew put their trust in the person/system bringing them onto the stand. This includes making sure the stand is clear of objects, vehicles, cones, chocks etc... They can't always see what can be seen from the ground from up in the cockpit. That container would have blended in with the grey concrete pretty well!

Summary
The pilots are not to blame here. They've put their trust in someone/something and they've been failed.
Not just one ground crew worker is likely to lose their job as it's a chain of events. Several people have failed to follow their company procedures, it would be unfair to pin it on one person.

The ground handler has insurance for exactly these situations, it'll get sorted out!
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skygirl1990
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:26 pm

While it's absolutely true that the ground handlers should have made sure that the bay was clear, surely some of the responsibility would fall on to the pilot as well - it's their job to ensure safety of the aircraft at all times, regardless of what mistakes other people might make?
 
Dehowie
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:54 pm

Sorry but the pilots have quite a share of the blame..as always.
Ground equipment clearance lines on bays clearly show where equipment is permitted to be.
By definition the container had to be on the wrong side of the line or it would not of been vacumed up.
In short the crew didnt ensure the bay was safe to approach.
Changi uses electronic guidance onto the bays at the major terminals T1 and T2 so no marshaller.
Im sure someone on the ground should of checked the bay wa clear but it happens frequently that equipment is left over clearance lines. I think SQ will be kicking someone using there normal business practice for errors from crew..
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zkokq
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 34):

And if the can blended in on the ground as they approached? You want the crew to take their eyes away from the person or system marshelling them in every few feet to scan the ramp, a job that should have been done before they got there?

[Edited 2013-12-23 15:19:04]
 
chrisair
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 31):
Although somewhat OT, did you know that a human has survived a trip through a jet engine? I forget the details but there's an amazing story on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3Iz7b95-8

Here you go. Happened in 1991 with a Navy A6 on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The guy didn't actually go through the engine. More like his helmet, clothes, pride, goggles etc. He's one lucky guy.
 
travaz
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:00 am

I was on a WN 738 last week from ONT to PHX and as we approached the air Bridge we stopped short and the pilot said it would be a few minutes while the ground crew moved some equipment that was in the way. This crew seemed to think it was their responsibility to check and act.
 
duckbilled
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:41 am

Like the tags

Tags: plane, airplane, engine, suck
 
PDX88
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:19 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 36):

Containers aren't camouflaged, they don't just "blend in". They should have been easy for the captain to spot as the aircraft lined up with the lead in. The captain is responsible for the safety of the aircraft. It is his/her responsibility to ensure their path is clear before pulling into the gate, they aren't supposed to blindly trust the marshaller and assume no responsibility.

Would you fly with a captain that didn't look left and right before crossing a runway simply because ATC cleared him to cross? I sure wouldn't.
 
QF744ER
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:09 am

-SRP is currently enroute back to SIN as SQ226 from Perth.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:34 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 33):
They can't always see what can be seen from the ground from up in the cockpit.

When its a huge container & trolley outside the demarcated clear zones around the parking stands - I should really hope the crew spot it as part of their taxi in.
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astuteman
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:11 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
Given the fact that the can was reduced to high-velocity shrapnel, it's a testament to Boeing/GE's engineering that the damage wasn't worse

I'm sure Boeing's and GE's engineering is excellent. however ...

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 29):
This incident happened at Singapore Changi on Thursday afternoon, 19th December. The aircraft was 9V-SRP, a Boeing 777-212(ER) powered by 2 x RR Trent 884

fortunately Rolls-Royce's is too  

Rgds
 
flythere
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:12 am

Quoting andz (Reply 4):
The LiveLeak article linked says it WAS a 787.

Poor 787 who got innocently accused once again..... Why cant they do a little bit of check before they gave title to the video..... And this incident is nothing related to the aircraft type..... (oh well if you can blame, blame the 77E engine inlet for being too big to be able to accommodate whole size of the container. it wont happen to hair-dryers like P&W JT3D-3B onn Boeing 707.....LOL)

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 42):
When its a huge container & trolley outside the demarcated clear zones around the parking stands - I should really hope the crew spot it as part of their taxi in.

Right, you cant solely blame the ground staff, it is the cockpit crew who drove the plane into the bay.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:36 am

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 31):
Although somewhat OT, did you know that a human has survived a trip through a jet engine? I forget the details but there's an amazing story on it.

I recall a story about a human being sucked into a jet engine and surviving, but only because he did not fit through the duct that led to the fan. No human could survive actually going through the engine; much like the container in this incident being reduced to confetti while the one in the Delta L-1011 incident surviving intact.

As to this present incident, if the container went through the bypass section of the fan, it is possible that the only damage would be to the fan blades-not cheap, but not catastrophic either. If portions went through the hot section it will be worse. But the engine probably needs a complete teardown inspection in any case.
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Daleaholic
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:17 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 42):
When its a huge container & trolley outside the demarcated clear zones around the parking stands - I should really hope the crew spot it as part of their taxi in.

Huge? They're really not that big you know. This is an AKE, the type of container which was in the video. Tend to weigh around 70-90kg.



These containers tend to be grey... Concrete is grey... And plus, how is a pilot supposed to judge where the container will end up in relation to the engine, which is a fair way behind him. No one person is to blame in this.
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speedbird128
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 46):
Huge? They're really not that big you know

1.6m tall by 2m wide isn't considered huge? How big do things need to be, to be noticed when taxiing right past it? Nobody looking to the left? It wasn't exactly CAT III LVO's...

Surely cockpit crew are checking the clear zone for obstacles? Don't you? Are you required to?

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 46):
And plus, how is a pilot supposed to judge where the container will end up in relation to the engine
Because there is a red/white painted sterile zone exactly for this reason...

Nothing is supposed to be across that red/white sterile zone.
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skygirl1990
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting zkokq (Reply 36):
And if the can blended in on the ground as they approached? You want the crew to take their eyes away from the person or system marshelling them in every few feet to scan the ramp, a job that should have been done before they got there?

Yep. That is why there is more than just one pilot in the cockpit
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Incident- SQ 777 Eats Luggage Container

Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 48):
Yep. That is why there is more than just one pilot in the cockpit

I wouldn't blame the pilots. The ramp has to be clear before the A/C rolls in. In addition, they would have trouble seeing what happens just in front of the engines.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down

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Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos