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iowaman
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AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:04 am

The first thread was quite lengthy, so here is part two.

Part one: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote (by JoePatroni707 Dec 16 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
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william
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:13 am

When info was released that this is limited to the tail, I think interest in this died down. In the end, my money is on nothing changes. We will just get used to it as with other things in life.
 
Independence76
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:52 am

This is the way it is:

1. Keep the Tail

Easy way out in terms of PR and branding. The costs of the tail paint, stensils, and labor will be increased over the original estimate (designed specifically for AA's fleet, US had no part). With the merger, the entire US fleet is integrated, therefore more planes to paint and maintain. This doesn't go with the new culture at HDQ1.

2. Switch the Tail

Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created. I can imagine that this is already very attractive to Parker and his team, considering the culture in Tempe is/was highly against the flag tail. One of AA's maintenance auditors told me himself that when he was present when the first 737 was being painted in VCV, the cost of painting a single tail in the design was "very expensive."

While I see a lot of people like the tail, I personally believe it follows the rule of "they don't know they'll like it until they see it." If the flag tail disappears (which I believe is very likely, despite the 50/50 split), the new design (if executed logically and well) will have much more positive reception from critics (even A.nutters).

[Edited 2013-12-23 18:54:24]
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:04 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
This is the way it is:

1. Keep the Tail

Easy way out in terms of PR and branding. The costs of the tail paint, stensils, and labor will be increased over the original estimate (designed specifically for AA's fleet, US had no part). With the merger, the entire US fleet is integrated, therefore more planes to paint and maintain. This doesn't go with the new culture at HDQ1.

2. Switch the Tail

Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created. I can imagine that this is already very attractive to Parker and his team, considering the culture in Tempe is/was highly against the flag tail. One of AA's maintenance auditors told me himself that when he was present when the first 737 was being painted in VCV, the cost of painting a single tail in the design was "very expensive."

While I see a lot of people like the tail, I personally believe it follows the rule of "they don't know they'll like it until they see it." If the flag tail disappears (which I believe is very likely, despite the 50/50 split), the new design (if executed logically and well) will have much more positive reception from critics (even A.nutters).

I think number 2 will happen, according to the tail colors being very expensive.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
user444555
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:27 am

If the new tail is more expensive then all the more reason to switch back until something better is found.
 
brilondon
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting user444555 (Reply 4):

If the new tail is more expensive then all the more reason to switch back until something better is found.

Why switch back to the old tail. That would be more expensive. If the rumours on here are true (chuckle chuckle) than they should just stop painting aircraft until the new livery is finalized. I really think that people are making too much of mountain out of this paint job. I believe AA has more to worry about than to change the tail of the plane again. The merger will need to be implemented and there is not an unlimited pool of money to do this with. As we have seen at UA, a mega-merger is not that easy or inexpensive to complete. I am not sure but is the US/HP integration complete yet?
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created.

Can you show me where he says this?
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
user444555
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 6):
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created.

Can you show me where he says this?

I am not sure Parker said that directly, but employees did post that in a quote from the survey/vote page.
 
AA777
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:52 pm

I think the outrage over the new livery is unwarranted to begin with. Going back to the old AA livery would be a step backwards. Its a classic - and always will be - but at this point it is dated in terms of its font and the lines and all that. Sad when the most modern Legacy carrier livery is Delta's euro-white thing, but at least its clean and fresh looking. United's *cough cough, I mean CO's* is straight out of the early 90's with that horrible corporate globe thing.

Anyway - I think the new AA livery is so recognizable. The tail is a bit busy but that's ok when you have such a simple design for the rest of the plane. If I had my way, a redo would be a cleaner version of what's there NOW, or to take the new "eagle" and expand it onto the rudder, as has been shown in this thread a number of times. That was a cool design.

-AA777
 
ExL10Mktg
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting user444555 (Reply 7):
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 6):
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created.

Can you show me where he says this?

I am not sure Parker said that directly, but employees did post that in a quote from the survey/vote page.

According to Parker's letter in both Wings and Jetnet he says the opposite. The employees are voting on which of the two tail options they want (and presumably that will be that.) He unequivocally states that they will not be starting from scratch. The new fuselage and logo will be staying regardless of the tail decision.
 
flanker
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:01 pm

Like I've said before, the new livery is awesome and packs quite a punch, especially when multiple AA aircraft are grouped together on the ramp. I would love to see it stay.
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 9):
According to Parker's letter in both Wings and Jetnet he says the opposite. The employees are voting on which of the two tail options they want (and presumably that will be that.) He unequivocally states that they will not be starting from scratch. The new fuselage and logo will be staying regardless of the tail decision.

That's exactly what I was getting at. Anything I've seen Parker states that he isn't going to change the fuselage, that they are just talking about the tail. Not the logo, not the fuselage, not the branding at all. Just the tail of the planes.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
klkla
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting AA777 (Reply 8):
I think the outrage over the new livery is unwarranted to begin with.

The livery and branding is generally pretty good. Most people agree on that. The tail is hideous however. It looks like it was designed by a first year High School art student. They could have done so much better on that one element.
 
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a36001
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:39 pm

The US livery is boring, sorry but IMO it is. The choice should be clear, repaint the US fleet into the AA colours and move
on.

The US livery is like UA/CO - dull and dated. The AA livery is modern, loud, bright, bold and brash. Much like America itself!
Dare I say it but it is a bit of fresh air when put next to Southwest, Delta and United!  
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:48 pm

Quoting a36001 (Reply 13):
The US livery is boring, sorry but IMO it is. The choice should be clear, repaint the US fleet into the AA colours and move
on.

The US livery is like UA/CO - dull and dated. The AA livery is modern, loud, bright, bold and brash. Much like America itself!
Dare I say it but it is a bit of fresh air when put next to Southwest, Delta and United!  

VERY well-stated! My thoughts exactly. I didn't like the "new" AA livery at first, but I really do now. And, they're so far in, that it would be madness to change it mid-stream now. The current New American livery is modern and instantly-recognizable. The latter especially, is what an airline NEEDS in a livery IMO!
Great Lakes, great life.
 
user444555
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:51 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 12):
Quoting AA777 (Reply 8):
I think the outrage over the new livery is unwarranted to begin with.

The livery and branding is generally pretty good. Most people agree on that. The tail is hideous however. It looks like it was designed by a first year High School art student. They could have done so much better on that one element.

I agree and if I were given the two current choices I would go with old before the flag.
 
kochamLOT
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting a36001 (Reply 13):
Quoting a36001 (Reply 13):
The AA livery is modern, loud, bright, bold and brash. Much like America itself!
Dare I say it but it is a bit of fresh air when put next to Southwest, Delta and United!

NAILED IT! ...why change it!? It is a new design and much welcome change from what we are seeing with every other carrier. The tail is instantly recognizable and the eagle has made its way onto the aircraft up front.

You cant be a trendsetter when you copy everyone else. UA and CO is awful. Zero creativity...how innovative is that?
AA has the best livery out there. I can seee it from almost a million miles away!  
 
coachclass
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting AA777 (Reply 8):
- I think the new AA livery is so recognizable

I agree that it's more of a stand-out, more visible, but not more recognizable. If you showed 100 non-aviation geeks the new tail logo and asked which airline this belongs to, I bet not more that 10-20% would say American. Show the old one, and it would be nearly 100% recognizable.

But what concerns me more is what's going on inside the aircraft. Ten across seating on the new B777's, reduced pitch and less comfortable seats, ad nauseum fees and charges, reduced in-flight amenities and services.

American once promoted itself as the premier U.S. carrier; this is the opportunity with the merger to revamp the whole thing and make the new American the most recognizable in the world for outstanding service.
 
D L X
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only."

Unless you can post a cite otherwise, I believe this is incorrect, and has been falsely perpetuated.

Parker told the employees that they can sign into the company intranet and vote on a tail. This does not sound like a survey.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:39 pm

Don't like that new image on that tail as it looks blur.... but it would be good to place it somewhere on the fuselage...
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
tyler81190
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:41 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 5):
I am not sure but is the US/HP integration complete yet?

No they have not...
 
flyfree727
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
Parker has already said that option two is "for survey purposes only." The final livery would be a new development that is yet to be designed and created.

Incorrect.. this is directly from the "voting" site q&a for all employees at AA and US
What will you do with the results of the survey?

If employees want to keep the new look, we’ll keep it. If they want the AA tail, we’ll go back. The bottom line is we want our employees to have input in what our new company looks like.
Why only the tail?

Major changes are not cost effective. However you may feel about the new livery and branding, the fact is it would be irresponsible for us to start over from scratch. There are currently more than 200 aircraft in the new livery and the new flight symbol or, “eagle” as it’s sometimes called, and the related signage is up in many airports and facilities already. One of our five imperatives at American is “Provide a Return for our Investors” and we can’t do that by spending their capital redoing a lot of work that has just been recently accomplished. The rest of the branding elements are excellent and will be left in place

AA ORD

[Edited 2013-12-26 08:19:40]
 
PSA53
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting a36001 (Reply 13):
The AA livery is modern, loud, bright, bold and brash. Much like America itself!

The "American" logo is the most important part the aircraft's livery with AA is free advertising for the company should also be bold.IMHO,the stand only black logo on grey needs help by outlining the black logo with white or red. Or red as base text outlined in white or blue.

The double AA's on the vertical tail is the best and most cost efficient.


  

[Edited 2013-12-26 11:27:48]
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:33 pm

This all goes back to a rumor that has been floating around AA since the day the livery was revealed. In January, it was pretty clear that US and AA were going to announce a merger. It was simply getting US to agree to the proposal that the secured creditors were pushing, which had US shareholders taking a much smaller stake than what Parker oringinally proposed.

Horton was peeved that he wasn't going to have his shot at running the new American post-Chapter 11. So, with several final choices for the livery, he picked that one that might create the most negative reaction, and leave it to Doug Parker to deal with having to live with it, go back to the old livery, or start over.

We know that to become a senior executive of a large corporation, you have to have somewhat of a large ego. Bruise the ego of a senior executive, and sometimes, you do get a consequence that seems a bit childish. (Watch how CEOs behave when an activist shareholder like Carl Icahn or Norman Peltz starts offering advice.)
 
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william
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:47 pm

Again, just read what Parker sent to the employees whether this is a vote or survey

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/files/121613_arrivals_livery_final.pdf
 
EricR
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 23):

This all goes back to a rumor that has been floating around AA since the day the livery was revealed. In January, it was pretty clear that US and AA were going to announce a merger. It was simply getting US to agree to the proposal that the secured creditors were pushing, which had US shareholders taking a much smaller stake than what Parker oringinally proposed.

Horton was peeved that he wasn't going to have his shot at running the new American post-Chapter 11. So, with several final choices for the livery, he picked that one that might create the most negative reaction, and leave it to Doug Parker to deal with having to live with it, go back to the old livery, or start over.

I do not buy that rumor at all. AA had no choice but go with a new livery due to the composites on the new aircraft. Parker himself acknowledges this in the newsletter below. It takes months to develop new branding, so it is not like Horton was able to make a rash decision and change they livery within a short period of time because he was unable to emerge from BK as an independent company.

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/files/121613_arrivals_livery_final.pdf

Quoting william (Reply 24):

I can see why this has caused so much confusion. The words "survey" and "vote" are used interchangeably throughout the newsletter. Based on the tone of the newsletter and the phrase "it's up to you", it sounds like they are leaving the final decision up to the employees.
 
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scbriml
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
The double AA's on the vertical tail is the best and most cost efficient.

No, it produces a jumbled mess. Is it "new AA" or just the same "crappy old AA"?

The only sensible solution is to keep the new colours, tail and all. I hope the vote is split 50-50 so that DP actually has to make a decision.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
CXGabriel
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:05 pm

I am not a big fan of the flag in the tail, but I really like the new logo (red, blue with the eagle in the middle). Why don't they just put that logo in the tail fully across the back (somewhat like a Qantas design). I think it'd look much better; besides, almost everyone put their logo in the tails anyway.

You're welcome, AA!  
 
questions
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:20 pm

I think a slightly modified "new tail" would be an easy, cost-effective solution that meets Doug Parker's criteria.

 
harim
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:22 pm

Does anyone have the cost of painting the old AA livery? Fresh paint and long term operating cost.

I heard that the maintenance cost was high for the bare metal AA livery - it is not my field of expertise - any input will be appreciated.
 
wrldtvlr
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 25):
http://blogs.star-telegram.com/files/121613_arrivals_livery_final.pdf

Given the two choices I lean toward keeping the flag on the tail. The old "AA" logo on the tail seems a bit dull, whereas the flag tail gives the rest of the plane a nice splash of color. Seeing the flag tail in person looks much better than the photos.

The AA tail makes the entire plane look like a USAF tanker.

 
D L X
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:13 pm

Don't forget that AA has put in a large plane order. The new planes from Boeing and Airbus will all have whatever design is chosen. So think about that when you think that the price of keeping the AA tail is lower because you won't have to paint so many tails. Yes you will -- in time.
 
jonnyclark
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:46 pm



Why does it have two be these two options, why not something like the above? It's a very narrow minded view IMHO... I'm not saying the above is correct, but there are alternatives which aren't being thought of, and why don't the public have a say? Is it not their airline fundamentally?
Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
 
EricR
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:57 pm

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 32):

It's a very narrow minded view IMHO... I'm not saying the above is correct, but there are alternatives which aren't being thought of, and why don't the public have a say? Is it not their airline fundamentally?

What other company in the world do know where they allow their branding to be determined by popular vote of their employee base? There are not very many. And no, this is not a government airline so it is not the public's airline. It is a corporation owned by equity and debt holders.

You can barely get a small group of people on this forum to agree to one livery. Imagine if this was opened up to the public? It would be a waste of time. As Parker said, he does not know of one person who decided not to fly on an airline based on the livery.

[Edited 2013-12-29 07:01:07]
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 32):
why not something like the above?

I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but this looks simply boring. Since Doug Parker has made it clear that repainting the fuselage would not be an option, the only reasonable way to go at this time is to keep the new tail design with the stylized flag as to keep the right balance between bla and bold.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
nicholasjet
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:59 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 33):
As Parker said, he does not know of one person who decided not to fly on an airline based on the livery.

True, but this livery gives me the impression they would play star spangled banner every time they landed.

The problem is if you open anything up to public concensus it dilutes a singular vision (which are normally stronger) and the fact they've opened it up to public vote means that there is a great deal of conversation going on about it internally.

[Edited 2013-12-29 08:33:56]
 
EricR
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 35):

If I am buying a ticket on American, and paying for the staff, fuel and assets by doing so, surely myself like any other passenger rightly has an input to the company as much as an employee?

Do you have this same expectation every time you go into your favorite department store, restaurant, sporting venue, fuel station, wireless phone provider, etc. etc.? The answer for the vast majority of people is no. They never give it a second thought. The only reason why this is such a big topic here is because this is an aviation site.

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 35):

the fact they've opened it up to public vote means that there is a great deal of conversation going on about it internally

Perhaps this is part of the message behind the livery. Make something that is normally an after thought by non-aviation enthusiasts and make it stand out. The livery certainly is not something that I would have envisioned, but they needed to do awAAy with the old livery. It was time for something new.
 
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scbriml
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 35):
If I am buying a ticket on American, and paying for the staff, fuel and assets by doing so, surely myself like any other passenger rightly has an input to the company as much as an employee?

No.   

Since when has purchasing a company's product entitled you to a say in that company's public image? How much say do you get when you buy a can of Coke? Or a burger at McD's?

Anyway, having spent the day at Heathrow in glorious winter sunshine, all but one of today's AA departures were in the new colours and they all looked fantastic. The old bare-metal one looked very shabby and dated in comparison.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
YXwatcherMKE
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting a36001 (Reply 13):
The US livery is like UA/CO - dull and dated. The AA livery is modern, loud, bright, bold and brash. Much like America itself!
Dare I say it but it is a bit of fresh air when put next to Southwest, Delta and United!
Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 16):
NAILED IT! ...why change it!? It is a new design and much welcome change from what we are seeing with every other carrier. The tail is instantly recognizable and the eagle has made its way onto the aircraft up front.

I agree with the two posters here. With the new company a new image was needed. That is what the new livery does. the other day my daughter and myself were watching the sunset and she saw a w/b a/c flying over head she asked me what was the airline was because she had not seen the tail before. (we were using binoculars) I looked and saw that it was an AA 767. I told her that it was AA's new livery. She looked again and said that it was "really nice bright paint job." She thought about it for a few minutes than asked if that replaced the red and blue strip and the AA on the tail, I said it did. She replied "That was a good move because the old one was boring and old and I like that new paint job". The young generation like blight and bold & she is 22 and very smart and a artist. And for just two toss in my two cents I like it to, and AA needed the change.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
 
 
rising
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:42 pm

What have they done with the large classic eagle inside the cabin? You see it right when you walk in the door on the panel near the galley.

Will it be the new eagle design- or gone all together? It's a strong brand message. It's also somewhat unique among US carriers to have the logo as decor in the interior.
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:13 pm

Why are we still having the discussion about alternatives? We had this for months both before and after they unveiled the new product. It's not happening. Let that sleeping horse lie. It's off-topic, and not germane at all to the discussion at hand.

There are two options, regardless of what anyone else wants, or thinks looks better than those options.

My vote is keeping the new tail. It's fresh, modern, and putting the old scissor logo on the tail would create a conflict in their marketing scheme, which regardless of what Doug Parker says about them being able to work around it, wouldn't be good.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
user444555
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RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 39):
While this is a lot to choose from I am certain there can be a few better choices than the employees have to choose from. I think there has to be something better.

There are a lot of things better than the new tail. But until that is an option, I go with old before unattractive. Outside of this site, most people I have spoken with reluctantly choose the old AA because they really do not like the flag. I won't repeat everything because they have all been covered in previous posts. No, customers cannot dictate everything about brand image, but they do deserve to see a branding they find somewhat appealing.

AA wants to be a premium airline and they should look like one. I do not think the current tail accomplishes this goal and I think it is less important that they try to be distinctive and more important they try to look classy. If I drove a Rolls or a Mercedes (premium cars), I would not paint a flag on the trunk or racing stripes down it. That would be gaudy. AA is a premium airline and their brand should look premium, not like some of the adjectives other people have used.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5198
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 25):
I do not buy that rumor at all. AA had no choice but go with a new livery due to the composites on the new aircraft. Parker himself acknowledges this in the newsletter below. It takes months to develop new branding, so it is not like Horton was able to make a rash decision and change they livery within a short period of time because he was unable to emerge from BK as an independent company.

No, it wasn't a choice of the new livery or the old one. The design house that created the new brand more than one livery as options. Supposedly, Horton picked the one that he thought would create the most contraversy, just to spite Doug Parker, for starting his campaign to buy AA.

The process of rebranding commenced, when AA announced the split Airbus-Boeing narrowbody order in July of 2011. With AA getting so many new airplanes, management believed it was time to introduce a new brand and livery. I suspect that memos about a rebranding effort could have started circulating around HQ earlier in the year, when the 777-300 order was announced.

In fact, there has been talk of some sort of change in the paint scheme, when AA signed the LOI for the 787s, since it was clear that they had to be painted.
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:24 am

Keep it the way it is, it isn't just aircraft that need tote repaired. Lounges and advertising campaigns...

It all adds up, does it not?

I for one like the new tail. And I think it's a lot better than what others have come out with recently.

Here's looking at you, Iberia.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22137
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:40 am

I was spotting today and I've decided: I actually do like the new livery. It's grown on me.

What needs to change is not the livery, but the awful shade of red they use on the tail. They need to tone it down just a few notches. The American flag doesn't use that color. I do like the renditions with the new Eagle on the tail, though. That would look sharp.

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 32):

I like your design that has red and blue both prominently displayed on the tail.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
user444555
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 am

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
What needs to change is not the livery, but the awful shade of red they use on the tail. They need to tone it down just a few notches. The American flag doesn't use that color. I do like the renditions with the new Eagle on the tail, though. That would look sharp.

The American flag does not use that color of red, does not have orange, light blue, gray, or have blue stripes. The new eagle on the tail looks great. I hope AA will at least consider it.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19697
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:45 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 36):
It was time for something new.
Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 38):
AA needed the change.

Not just a change, but something that says "Look at us, we're the new AA!"

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 41):
My vote is keeping the new tail. It's fresh, modern, and putting the old scissor logo on the tail would create a conflict in their marketing scheme, which regardless of what Doug Parker says about them being able to work around it, wouldn't be good.

They've spent millions on this. It's more important than a few whiners that don't like it and want to live in the past.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
I was spotting today and I've decided: I actually do like the new livery. It's grown on me.

See reply 37. Except I liked it from first sight.   

The bare-metal scheme looks drab and so last-century in direct comparison. The new AA needs this new image.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 42):
No, customers cannot dictate everything about brand image, but they do deserve to see a branding they find somewhat appealing.

Well, aside from the fact most airline customers spend significantly more time looking at the INSIDE of a plane rather than the outside, if they really don't like it, they can fly someone else.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 46):
The American flag does not use that color of red, does not have orange, light blue, gray, or have blue stripes.

You'd have a point were it not for the fact that the tail is an abstract representation of the American flag, not an exact image. You know, ironically, a bit like the 'flag' on a US tail.

Quoting user444555 (Reply 46):
The new eagle on the tail looks great. I hope AA will at least consider it.

It's not an option. Let it go.

[Edited 2013-12-29 23:46:26]
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
user444555
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 am

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:52 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 47):
It's not an option. Let it go.

If it bothers you that I want AA to consider it as do many here and hundreds on AA's facebook page, let it go.
 
user444555
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 am

RE: AA To Put Livery To Employee Vote Part 2

Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:54 am

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 44):
Keep it the way it is, it isn't just aircraft that need tote repaired. Lounges and advertising campaigns...

The logo is on the lounges, etc. Thankfully I do not think flag tail rears its head except on the tails of planes. There should not be any major changes to the items you mention, only the tail.

[Edited 2013-12-29 23:55:38]

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