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united319
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:12 am

Sorry if I am behind the curve but after reading that hub-breakdown post regarding DL and it showed 49 departures a day out of ATL for the 717. I am very anxious to hear what routes are being flown with the 712. It's a great airplane and will hopefullly stick around as along as the DC-9 did. It's a wonderful plane. Anybody got the breatkdown for me on what DL's 717's look like inside (PICS PLEASE!!!) Also would love you know how DL re-did the galleys and seating. Back at the tran. the legroom was a bit tight. But most of all, WHAT ROUTES???? Anyway would love to see a post-mod picture of both cabins and the galleys as well. Maybe some exterior shots too. Trying to keep this into civil avation. So please post any routes you already know of being flown with this 717. Especially interested in the longest and shortest segments are that if offers as of now. I am very tempted to buy an F seat on the longest route on the bird and see what the meal service is like.
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:24 am

ATL-ORD
ORD-DTW
DTW-BWI

[Edited 2013-12-28 22:28:47]
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FSDan
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:28 am

On the day I compiled the data for:

DTW-STL
DTW-ORD
DTW-BWI
ATL-LIT
ATL-ORD
ATL-CLE
ATL-TYS
ATL-JAN
ATL-HSV
ATL-BHM
ATL-VPS
ATL-ECP
ATL-TLH
ATL-SAV
ATL-CHS
ATL-CLT
ATL-IAD
ATL-EWR

Not really any long routes as that's not what the 717 is intended for. ATL-EWR looks like the longest.
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TW870
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:42 am

Right now EWR, CLE, LIT, HSV, and ECP have the vast majority of the frequencies. JAN and VPS are just coming online. There are DTW-EWR rotations that are, for now, the only non-ATL hub flying.

It is interesting that 717s are not directly replacing either large RJ or DC-9 flying. Rather, it is a mix. EWR has the most 717 frequencies right now, and that was an all-mainline mix of 319, M88, M90, and D95 before. Cleveland, meanwhile, was mostly mainline but with a few CR9 mixed in, and is now mostly 717. JAN was mostly CR9, but it seems like they are getting 717s filling in for former M88 trips. Overall, CR2s and D95s are leaving the fleet, but 717s are not directly replacing any category of flying.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:32 am

Quoting TW870 (Reply 3):
It is interesting that 717s are not directly replacing either large RJ or DC-9 flying. Rather, it is a mix. EWR has the most 717 frequencies right now, and that was an all-mainline mix of 319, M88, M90, and D95 before. Cleveland, meanwhile, was mostly mainline but with a few CR9 mixed in, and is now mostly 717. JAN was mostly CR9, but it seems like they are getting 717s filling in for former M88 trips. Overall, CR2s and D95s are leaving the fleet, but 717s are not directly replacing any category of flying.

This is interesting. The 717 would actually be a perfect fit to replace large RJs to free them up for more viable routes. ATL-VPS/ECP are good for this kind of plane to allow for increased mainline on the ATL-Florida routes that are a little thinner. The only ATL-Florida route that does not have mainline on it now is ATL-GNV. The rest of the smaller/mid-size markets are either mostly or all mainline again. I think the 717 would also be good for thinner NYC-Florida routes as well. They can make the trip (FL ran a 717 on LGA-DAB and LGA-TPA). However, right now they're mostly based out of ATL.

Another question, I hope they replaced the seats with DL type seats now. FL's 717 seats had very thin cushions and I always deplaned with a very sore a$$ LOL.
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Alsatian
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:31 am

Quoting united319 (Thread starter):
Especially interested in the longest and shortest segments
Quoting FSDan (Reply 2):
ATL-EWR looks like the longest.

ATL - EWR 746 miles, flight duration around 2h15
ATL - ORD 606 miles
ATL - CLE 554 miles
...
ATL - TYS 152 miles
ATL - HSV 151 miles
ATL - BHM 134 miles, flight duration around 55 minutes
 
MIflyer12
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:01 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
Another question, I hope they replaced the seats with DL type seats now. FL's 717 seats had very thin cushions and I always deplaned with a very sore a$$ LOL.

A FlyerTalk post from Delta's interiors manager:

'We’re adding 88 717s to the fleet with first deliveries arriving during the third quarter of 2013. The interiors will be upgraded to the Delta standard with the same First Class seats as the 737-900ER and 757-300. Economy Comfort and Economy will feature a slim line seat with articulating seat pan (for additional knee clearance), four-way adjustable winged headrests and standard power outlets available at every seat. Because these aircraft will operate short missions, AVOD will not be installed. However Wi-Fi and wireless entertainment on demand will be available.'
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:30 pm

Quoting TW870 (Reply 3):
It is interesting that 717s are not directly replacing either large RJ or DC-9 flying. Rather, it is a mix. EWR has the most 717 frequencies right now, and that was an all-mainline mix of 319, M88, M90, and D95 before. Cleveland, meanwhile, was mostly mainline but with a few CR9 mixed in, and is now mostly 717. JAN was mostly CR9, but it seems like they are getting 717s filling in for former M88 trips. Overall, CR2s and D95s are leaving the fleet, but 717s are not directly replacing any category of flying.

Many always had that idea but that was never to be the case. The 717s (any new a/c for that matter) was/is not directly replacing any specific type. What it's doing is replacing CAPACITY. It's also allowing DL to simplify their route structure on certain routes. I quote

Quote:
Reduce operational complexity in stations which have multiple types (Ex: HSV today has 50, two class and mainline)
Quoting FSDan (Reply 2):
ATL-EWR looks like the longest.

   During the summer, EWR-ATL would take a weight penalty of about 5 pax (low pax cap by network to restrict seat sales) on the 9. There was also a high proportion of mail which played a role.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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drerx7
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:14 pm

Is it true that ATL-HOU is going all 717?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
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Alsatian
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 8):
Is it true that ATL-HOU is going all 717?

Right, 5 daily M88 flights until 30APR :

DL 1633 ATL 0810 - 0917 HOU M88
DL 1391 ATL 1025 - 1140 HOU M88
DL 1142 ATL 1340 - 1451 HOU M88
DL 2299 ATL 1610 - 1724 HOU M88
DL 1241 ATL 2030 - 2147 HOU M88

then 7x 717 roundtrips per day :

DL 1633 ATL 0810 - 0917 HOU 717
DL 1391 ATL 1025 - 1140 HOU 717
DL 1363 ATL 1210 - 1321 HOU 717
DL 1142 ATL 1340 - 1451 HOU 717
DL 1813 ATL 1455 - 1609 HOU 717
DL 2299 ATL 1610 - 1724 HOU 717
DL 1241 ATL 2030 - 2147 HOU 717

So with 696 miles ATL - HOU will be the second longest DL 717 sector after ATL - EWR.

[Edited 2013-12-29 08:40:37]
 
TW870
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
I think the 717 would also be good for thinner NYC-Florida routes as well. They can make the trip (FL ran a 717 on LGA-DAB and LGA-TPA).

I'll be curious to see how DL 717 operations differ from FL's. Since FL only had two fleets to choose from, they made the 717 do a pretty wide variety of missions. If I had to guess, DL will narrow the focus of the 717 to where it beats its competitors - short missions. In other words, I bet they'll fly it just like everybody flew the DC-9-30 in the 1960s, running it mostly on ATL-JAN/BHM/LIT, etc., or DTW-STL, ORD, etc. If I had to guess, they'll keep LGA-Florida on the dogs and the buses due to higher volumes, and because the Airbii are more efficient on longer stages.
 
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drerx7
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:25 pm

IAH-ATL also looks like it'll get a 717 turn. This will be the first time the 717 has flown to IAH since TW moved there from HOU.
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lightsaber
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting TW870 (Reply 10):
If I had to guess, DL will narrow the focus of the 717 to where it beats its competitors - short missions.

Mostly. However, there is no reason not to go out 1500nm (still air) which is most of the continental USA. With RR's promise to PIP the engines for longer times between overhauls, it will make the 717 more economical on shorter missions which should bias their routes as you suggest.

Then again, considering how few routes are viable outside of 1000nm from ATL (still air distance), it wouldn't surprise me if most routes were that short... unless DL deploys these to SLC... in that case I would expect SLC-ATL to be scheduled if for no other reason than aircraft re-positioning. I do not expect to ever see ATL-LAS length routes again.

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peachair
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting TW870 (Reply 3):
Overall, CR2s and D95s are leaving the fleet, but 717s are not directly replacing any category of flying.

You are right, not directly but indirectly. Most of the CR7 and CR9 that the B717 is filling in for will go to replace CRJ2 in different markets.
 
srbmod
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DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 2):
Not really any long routes as that's not what the 717 is intended for. ATL-EWR looks like the longest.

The 717 has the legs to do ATL-DEN, as FL has used them on that route and they also flew DFW-LAX with them back when they had their DFW focus city. Midwest was flying them MKE-LAX, but in an 88 seat all-business class layout. As FL acquired more 73Gs, the 717s were taken off most of the longer runs and replaced with the 73Gs.

The 717 would be perfect as a Delta Shuttle a/c, as it was designed for short hops (under 2 hours) and high frequency service (Look at HA's interisland ops.).
 
wjcandee
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 7):
During the summer, EWR-ATL would take a weight penalty of about 5 pax (low pax cap by network to restrict seat sales) on the 9.

That's interesting given that the actual flight time is only about 90 minutes. Of course, with summer weather...
 
dumbell2424
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:24 pm

 
Mexicana757
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:16 pm

Starting April 1, 2014 DL will be sending the 717 to MDW. ATL-MDW will go from 6X daily with A320s to 7X daily(4X 717 and 3X A320).
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:17 pm

IIRC, DL has only about 8 aircraft actually on the property as of now. Is this correct? By the end of next year the 717 will be as ubiquitous as the DC-9. I look forward to riding it out of RIC to DTW or MSP at some point. They can lose the CRJ's they use to DTW anytime as far as I am concerned. Those 50 seaters are so uncomfortable.
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Deltran757
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:31 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 9):

That's one impressive looking schedule especially for business travelers. Between ATL-HOU/IAH, that's 15x flights between Atlanta and Houston when the 717 takes over M88 flying.

And speaking of their west coast operation, would some 717 be a good fit in LAX and SEA?
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N126DL
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 5):
ATL - BHM 134 miles, flight duration around 55 minutes

ATL-SAV is 38 minutes, wheels up to wheels down, but I believe the mileage is about 215nm.
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WesternA318
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:46 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Then again, considering how few routes are viable outside of 1000nm from ATL (still air distance), it wouldn't surprise me if most routes were that short... unless DL deploys these to SLC... in that case I would expect SLC-ATL to be scheduled if for no other reason than aircraft re-positioning. I do not expect to ever see ATL-LAS length routes again.

I could see a possible DTW-STL-SLC-MSP-DTW routing...   Seriously though, any plans for the 717 to ever alight in SLC?
 
PC12Fan
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 21):
I could see a possible DTW-STL-SLC-MSP-DTW routing

Don't know if you've had the chance to see, but they've been flying into STL several times now.   
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mayor
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 21):
I could see a possible DTW-STL-SLC-MSP-DTW routing... Seriously though, any plans for the 717 to ever alight in SLC?

I wonder how the hot & high performance is........operating out of SLC I could maybe see SLC-JAC or almost any Montana city.........pick any city out of SLC that is currently operated with a CR9.
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b727fa
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:02 am

I just worked it PIT-ATL two days ago.
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CV880
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:12 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
IIRC, DL has only about 8 aircraft actually on the property as of now. Is this correct?

Should be 13.
 
YXwatcherMKE
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:24 am

Any chance that we will see the DL 712 on any MKE routes? FL had them on several Routes MKE-ATL/MSP/MCI and DFW when they were operating at DFW. Also IIRC FL also had it on the MKE-BWI route for a while. The 712 would be get on the Following...
MKE- ATL x 5 MD90's, x 1 MD88.... 670 miles, 2 hours
MKE- MSP 2 x MD90, 2x CRJ9, 1CRJ7, 1 A320... 297 miles 80 minutes
MKE- DTW. 2x MD88, !x CRJ9, 1 x A319, 1 x A320.... 236 miles, 80 minutes
MKE - LGA -2 x CRJ9, 2 x CRJ7, 1 x E175..... 736 Miles, 2hours 16 minutes
We still have flights to CVG x3 and it is a short 317 mile hop on CRJ2's tin cans.
DO I hope or not? And if yes how long do I have to wait to see the 717's at MKE?
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wjcandee
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:27 am

WN now says that it's gonna park all the 717s by Jan 2015, rather than December 2015, but DL apparently will still take them at just 3 per month during 2014 and 2015.
 
Mizzou65201
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 14):
Midwest was flying them MKE-LAX, but in an 88 seat all-business class layout.

Nope...YX never ran the 717 nonstop from MKE to the West Coast. The west coast runs were on the M80/M88 ships. All the 717 service to the west coast on YX was via MCI.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 14):
The 717 would be perfect as a Delta Shuttle a/c, as it was designed for short hops (under 2 hours) and high frequency service (Look at HA's interisland ops.).

They're supposedly being put on the LGA-BOS shuttle operation in April (though not LGA/ORD or DCA).    
Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 26):
Any chance that we will see the DL 712 on any MKE routes? FL had them on several Routes MKE-ATL/MSP/MCI and DFW when they were operating at DFW. Also IIRC FL also had it on the MKE-BWI route for a while. The 712 would be get on the Following...
MKE- ATL x 5 MD90's, x 1 MD88.... 670 miles, 2 hours
MKE- MSP 2 x MD90, 2x CRJ9, 1CRJ7, 1 A320... 297 miles 80 minutes
MKE- DTW. 2x MD88, !x CRJ9, 1 x A319, 1 x A320.... 236 miles, 80 minutes
MKE - LGA -2 x CRJ9, 2 x CRJ7, 1 x E175..... 736 Miles, 2hours 16 minutes
We still have flights to CVG x3 and it is a short 317 mile hop on CRJ2's tin cans.
DO I hope or not? And if yes how long do I have to wait to see the 717's at MKE?

I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see them on MKE-DTW since the a319s are being outfitted with AVOD and put on longer routes. Maybe change from 1 CR9 and 1 a319 to two 717s.

I'd love to see the 717s come to MYR. In the summer we get 6 flights a day, consisting of 2 MD88s, 1 CR9, and 3 CR2s, with an E-175 on Mondays. It would be great to see something like 4 717s or or 1 MD and 3 717s. Every flight between ATL and MYR I've ever been on has been upwards of 95% full, if not completely full (had it oversold once or twice, too). Plus, only being ~one hour i flight time it's right up the 717s alley.    
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cornutt
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:45 am

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 5):
ATL - BHM 134 miles, flight duration around 55 minutes

Of course that's gate-to-gate time. Actual time in the air is only about 20 minutes. DL has several similar routes, e.g., ATL-HSV and ATL-CHA. Which goes back to the other thread about HA inter-island flying, short turnarounds, and routes with no cruise time.
 
captainstefan
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:29 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 15):
That's interesting given that the actual flight time is only about 90 minutes. Of course, with summer weather...

Keep in mind the DC-9-50's range is the shortest of the bunch (see here for more details DL Pushing The DC9 Beyond Its Operational Range (by Transpac787 Dec 24 2009 in Civil Aviation) ) at max payload - just over 700nm. I've seen them leave a row or two empty on the ORD-ATL leg in the summer.
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KGRB
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:45 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 7):
During the summer, EWR-ATL would take a weight penalty of about 5 pax (low pax cap by network to restrict seat sales) on the 9.

Weight and balance is tricky on the DC-9. Recently we had a couple in ATW that were subbed in for our normal EV flights to ATL and they were both payload optimized. I couldn't believe the fuel loads on those flights - they were taking around 30,000 lbs., while a CRJ-900 on that route only needs about 11,800.
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UALWN
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 14):
The 717 has the legs to do ATL-DEN, as FL has used them on that route and they also flew DFW-LAX

My one and only flight on a 717 was BCN-TFN (on AeBal, a JK affiliate), which at 1364 mi is longer than both ATL-DEN and DFW-LAX. It was a wonderful flight, by the way.
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PHLBOS
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:37 pm

I'm still hoping to see DL use them for some of their PHL routes. We still see DL DC-9s over here from time-to-time; I'm guessing these were mostly to/from DTW.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting n126dl (Reply 20):
ATL-SAV is 38 minutes, wheels up to wheels down, but I believe the mileage is about 215nm.

That sounds more realistic. I don't think ATL-BHM is 55 minutes. I've done ATL-RDU countless times and it's usually 50 minutes wheels up to wheels down depending on what RWY we use in ATL and that's over 300 miles.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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knope2001
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting Mizzou65201 (Reply 28):
YX never ran the 717 nonstop from MKE to the West Coast. The west coast runs were on the M80/M88 ships. All the 717 service to the west coast on YX was via MCI.

Yeah, the 717 really doesn't have the legs to fly quite that far. Midwest did operate ten scheduled MKE-SEA-MKE round trips with the 717 in spring of 2008. That is 1694 miles (a tad shorter than LAX at 1756) but it is probably not reliable. At the time the 717 had 88 seats and among these 10 round trips they carried more than 80 pax on some trips both direction. But that was definitely the exception, and would never work with a fuller load and/or against winter headwinds. Midwest did routinely and successfully fly MKE-LAS (1524 miles) and MKE-PHX (1460 miles) with 99-seat 717, but that was on the marginal edge. For Delta to reliably run a full 717 without bumping bags or cargo I suspect we're looking more at 1300 miles or so -- AirTran regularly ran their 117-seat 717 on MSP-MCO at 1310. However I'm not sure those are necessarily the trips Delta has in mind for their 717. They have a full arsenal of equipment and don't need to put the 717 into less-than-ideal roles that FL and especially YX did for lack of better options.

I find it interesting that some of the earliest uses for the 717 are in ATL city pairs where Delta wants to offer frequency but doesn't necessarily see the strongest demand...Cleveland, Houston and Newark all come to mind. I could see similar things happening at DTW and possibly MSP, especially in competitive markets to cities dominated by other airlines. The 717 offers the full mainline experience without the capacity of Airbus or M88 aircraft. I'm also curious to know if we'll see the 717 at LaGuardia replacing larger RJ's in some markets.

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 26):
Any chance that we will see the DL 712 on any MKE routes?

Starting next Tuesday 1/7 the 6pm-ish DTW-MKE-DTW shows as a 717, but just on Tuesdays for a few weeks. In most of March that particular flight runs as a 717 each day, but then becomes an M88 in April.
 
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Alsatian
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 5):
ATL - BHM 134 miles, flight duration around 55 minutes
Quoting n126dl (Reply 20):
ATL-SAV is 38 minutes, wheels up to wheels down, but I believe the mileage is about 215nm.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 35):
That sounds more realistic. I don't think ATL-BHM is 55 minutes. I've done ATL-RDU countless times and it's usually 50 minutes wheels up to wheels down depending on what RWY we use in ATL and that's over 300 miles.

Sure, I was talking about commercial flight times, stand to stand. ATL-SAV "flight" time is about 1h10 for 214 miles (186nm). ATL-RDU is 1h30 for 356 miles.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 37):

And to some degree gate to gate times is more important for us in the airline because aircraft routing and crew scheduling is based on block time. So, sometimes you'll hear peopel say that airlines will pad flight times jsut to do it (ensuring an on-time). They do but to an extent. Too much padding and you're limiting a/c turns and crew turns.
What gets measured gets done.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting KGRB (Reply 32):
Weight and balance is tricky on the DC-9. Recently we had a couple in ATW that were subbed in for our normal EV flights to ATL and they were both payload optimized. I couldn't believe the fuel loads on those flights - they were taking around 30,000 lbs., while a CRJ-900 on that route only needs about 11,800.

On the DC-9-30's from DTW to DCA or RIC they would tell me it was weight restricted and I could not get on. It is all of about a :58 minute flight. How much fuel do they need to carry?
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mayor
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting KGRB (Reply 32):

Weight and balance is tricky on the DC-9. Recently we had a couple in ATW that were subbed in for our normal EV flights to ATL and they were both payload optimized. I couldn't believe the fuel loads on those flights - they were taking around 30,000 lbs., while a CRJ-900 on that route only needs about 11,800.

It's possible that those particular fuel loads had nothing to do with the needs of that flight, but that flight control in ATL required them to "tanker" fuel for some reason.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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knope2001
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 36):
I'm also curious to know if we'll see the 717 at LaGuardia replacing larger RJ's in some markets.

To take this point farther I pulled LGA-departing RJ flights for Q3 of 2013. Below are the domestic RJ markets ranked by onboard passengers per flight. I excluded markets that operated less than daily or seasonally (such as TVC and MYR). Also note a couple of markets including PWM and RSW had some mainline mixed in as well.

pax/fl …. seats/fl … load factor .. total pax … flt/day ….. city
63.2 …….. 71.0 …….. 89.0% …….. 20339 …….. 4 …….. MKE
63.0 …….. 72.3 …….. 87.2% …….. 19723 …….. 4 …….. JAX
62.6 …….. 75.5 …….. 83.0% …….. 15339 …….. 3 …….. RSW
55.6 …….. 71.1 …….. 78.2% …….. 29772 …….. 7 …….. BUF
55.5 …….. 68.7 …….. 80.8% …….. 18530 …….. 4 …….. CHS
55.4 …….. 68.8 …….. 80.4% …….. 18932 …….. 4 …….. PWM
54.0 …….. 65.0 …….. 83.1% ………. 3945 …….. 1 …….. BHM
54.0 …….. 65.0 …….. 83.1% ………. 5617 …….. 1 …….. MEM
53.2 …….. 66.0 …….. 80.5% …….. 16060 …….. 4 …….. STL
52.7 …….. 72.9 …….. 72.3% …….. 72440 ….... 17 …….. ORD
51.9 …….. 74.9 …….. 69.3% …….. 28230 …….. 7 …….. DFW
51.2 …….. 66.0 …….. 77.6% ………. 6815 …….. 2 …….. MSN
51.2 …….. 72.8 …….. 70.4% …….. 15627 …….. 4 …….. MCI
50.9 …….. 59.3 …….. 85.9% …….. 15079 …….. 4 …….. BGR
50.4 …….. 66.4 …….. 75.9% …….. 15469 …….. 4 …….. BTV
50.2 …….. 71.4 …….. 70.3% …….. 12406 …….. 3 …….. SAV
49.2 …….. 64.7 …….. 76.1% …….. 15900 …….. 4 …….. ROC
49.0 …….. 66.3 …….. 73.9% …….. 16080 …….. 4 …….. SYR
48.5 …….. 66.3 …….. 73.1% …….. 33092 …….. 9 …….. RDU
47.4 …….. 65.5 …….. 72.5% …….. 19160 …….. 5 …….. CVG
45.5 …….. 60.6 …….. 75.1% ………. 6411 …….. 2 …….. GRR
45.0 …….. 67.1 …….. 67.1% …….. 21050 …….. 6 …….. CLT
44.6 …….. 59.0 …….. 75.7% …….. 12454 …….. 4 …….. MHT
44.5 …….. 65.7 …….. 67.8% ………. 3204 …….. 1 …….. OMA
42.5 …….. 71.6 …….. 59.4% …….. 19459 …….. 6 …….. IND
41.9 …….. 68.6 …….. 61.1% …….. 15255 …….. 5 …….. BNA
40.1 …….. 67.6 …….. 59.3% …….. 17031 …….. 6 …….. PIT
39.6 …….. 50.0 …….. 79.2% ………. 2496 …….. 1 …….. AVL
39.5 …….. 72.5 …….. 54.5% …….. 10267 …….. 3 …….. IAH
39.5 …….. 65.4 …….. 60.3% …….. 11643 …….. 4 …….. GSO
38.9 …….. 74.1 …….. 52.4% …….. 40437 ….... 16 …….. BOS
36.6 …….. 56.9 …….. 64.4% ………. 8319 …….. 3 …….. ILM
36.1 …….. 72.4 …….. 49.8% …….. 15039 …….. 6 …….. CMH
35.5 …….. 69.3 …….. 51.3% ………. 2168 …….. 1 …….. DSM
33.0 …….. 50.0 …….. 65.9% ………. 4121 …….. 2 …….. CAE
32.4 …….. 66.3 …….. 48.9% …….. 12114 …….. 5 …….. RIC
32.0 …….. 50.0 …….. 64.0% ………. 3901 …….. 2 …….. GSP
31.7 …….. 50.7 …….. 62.6% ………. 6346 …….. 3 …….. SDF
30.4 …….. 50.0 …….. 60.7% ………. 2035 …….. 1 …….. LEX
29.5 …….. 50.0 …….. 59.0% ………. 3745 …….. 2 …….. TYS
28.4 …….. 70.6 …….. 40.2% …….. 25848 ….... 14 …….. DCA
28.2 …….. 61.7 …….. 45.7% …….. 10043 …….. 4 …….. ORF
26.2 …….. 52.2 …….. 50.2% ………. 3380 …….. 2 …….. CHO
24.1 …….. 50.3 …….. 47.9% ………. 3059 …….. 2 …….. DAY
14.6 …….. 50.0 …….. 29.1% ………… 990 …….. 1 …….. ROA

Obviously even the fullest market at 63.2 passengers per trip doesn't break a 60% load factor on a 717, but that same limitation applies anyplace the 717 replaces a large RJ. With frequency being important in business markets one would guess they wouldn't do a great deal of replacing 5 large RJ's with 3 717. Yet they could replace some large RJ flying with 717 in markets where they can win traffic from competing airlines, where they are spilling traffic to others on peak-time flights, or where they can stimulate more traffic.

I don't think they necessarily will upgrade the bulk of flights at LGA, but there might well be some opportunity there.
 
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knope2001
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:20 pm

FYI I also pulled CLE and IAD because it was not possible from the T100's to isolate which flights operated as DL* versus UA
*.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 41):

Jeez, some of those flights can barely use the planes they have! Those ones I'm surprised with are CMH, IAH (I know it's a UA market but a few daily E-175s would seem to do the trick, but I guess the yields are good), RIC, and IND.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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knope2001
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting MEsaFlyGuy (Reply 43):
Jeez, some of those flights can barely use the planes they have! Those ones I'm surprised with are CMH, IAH (I know it's a UA market but a few daily E-175s would seem to do the trick, but I guess the yields are good), RIC, and IND.

Yeah, it's always dangerous to judge results by onboard loads of course. And the markets might have relatively high amounts of point-to-point traffic at good fares, so comparably soft loads might not be as bad as one thinks. However the general rule probably holds...full planes don't ensure a profit, but relatively empty planes are probably in the red....at least in general.

A couple more comments on those LGA numbers:

(a) Some of the weaker markets have seen reductions or drops, including ROA (dropped) DAY (reduced to 1x) and IND (reduced to 5x)

(b) Some markets may be as they are for competitive reasons as Delta works to win loyalty in New York. IAH and DFW, for example, have added flights in spite of middling loads.

(c) It's interesting to note how light the shuttle numbers are, especially to DCA. One wonders if at some point the hourly service will transform into something else.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:33 am

Is any DL B717 used on international routes?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:19 am

DL does not need the 717s to fly 1500 mile routes. They have the A319s to do that. Most of the 1500 mile routes from ATL are served by 150+ seat aircraft like A320/738/MD88/MD90.

No international routes with the 717s yet or planned. The only one that may be realistically feasible might be ATL-YYZ which is primarily a CR7/CR9 route.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 45):

No not yet. I imagine ATL-YYZ will eventually see them and maybe ATL-YUL but other than that I don't expect many (if any) international 717 flying
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wedgetail737
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:13 am

Bring some of those 717's out to the West Coast.
 
WesternA318
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RE: DL 717 Routes Now Active?

Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 46):
No international routes with the 717s yet or planned. The only one that may be realistically feasible might be ATL-YYZ which is primarily a CR7/CR9 route.

I could see ATL-CUN with the 717's...almost reminds me of STL-CUN with TWA.

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