Quoting A388 (Reply 199):

True. Unless those CM flights are really full and there is loads of PTY POS I dont see BW competing. Especially if they have to run a 154 seater against a 100 seater which can add connecting passengers. BGI and SLU dont offer the same connectivity, and GEO is off now that CM is flying there direct.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 198): Given that CM is dominant on the PTY hub what is the possibility that BW can compete on the PTY POS?

Lots of out-of-the-box thinking here:
Route POS-PTY via BGI?
Get Venezuelan and Jamaican authority to fly POS-CCS-KIN-PTY and wish CCS-PTY O/D traffic (the ones buying tickets outside Venezuela) avoiding to fly Venezuelan airlines and not getting seats on CM are attracted to fly BW?
Could BW fly POS-PTY-YYZ? Canada is frequency-restricted for CM and CM can't cope with the demand.

Caribbean Airlines aircraft 9Y-JMA was repainted in the Caribbean Airlines livery (White Tail). Four White tails now!

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 201):

Venezuela already denied BW permission to upgrade their daily ATR service with a 738. CCS is now impossible to find a seat as a result. Don't think that they are going to allow new service by a carrier refusing to sell tix in Venezuela. I suspect that if anybody could have figured away around that problem Inselair would have.

Maybe BGI POS PTY, so they can compete against CM for the bulk of their revenue on this route, which will be POS PTY O&D. With CM charging $650 POS PTY vs BW charging $490 POS MIA (taxes included) maybe BW can snag some business by charging similar fares to PTY. Maybe 3X week. That is unless this is a very expensive route to operate . They should have a good mix of B class passengers.

They should also be able to develop some BGI packages for the heritage visitors looking to see the land of their ancestors, even if they have lost touch of relatives. That assumes that there is a sizeable number of Panamanians of Bajan descent who can afford these packages, which isn't necessarily the case, based on what I here of Colon, where many of them live.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 171): Perhaps some sort of partnership with BW would be useful. Common fleeting in the 767 for long-haul and eventual narrowbody commonality.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 172): Yes cooperation with PY/;BW and the 767s should reduce the costs of operating those flights, as well as utlization, and maybe open up some code share opportunities.

I really like this idea.

What was the DOT's basis for the denial of both BW & FJ GEO-JFk apps? I want to see if any comparisons can be drawn between that and NAI application to fly to the US via shell companies under a flag of convenience.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 205):

They claim that BW as a T&T owned airline, and FJ, a Jamaican owned airline, shouldn't have the right to run JFK GEO JFK as they are third country carriers.


However most countries use a "community of interests" principle which means that a nation can designate a carrier from another country where it has a community of interest (in this case CARICOM). The USA has previously recognized this principle, when it allowed BWIA and JM to be used by GND, BGI, UVF and ANU. Canada has allowed FJ to run a YYZ GEO YYZ.

USA refused to on this occasion, due to pressure from DL, which exited this route last year.

BW however does run a POS GEO JFK GEO POS route, so has nonstops in both directions.

I flew BW526 Saturday GEO-JFK. Flight was good, on time, and staff was courteous. The captain came out and shook the hands of a few pax, including mine, I guess in keeping with BW's customer service improvement.

At JFK I saw BW424 had arrived from GEO/POS, so BW ran two flights from GEO that afternoon. In addition, I saw Travel Span's 762 at GEO destined to JFK, so 3 flights GEO-JFK. 526 was fairly full, so BW does maintain market share even with OJ and TS on the route.

GUYAIR707

Does anybody know the status of the Caribbean Airlines 767 future in the fleet? Will they keep them or withdraw them from the fleet?

I really hope to see them before they go  

Cheers,

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 208):

Well at the ROUTES America event their Acting CEO spoke about expanding the LGW frequencies. I don't know whether he just said this for the sake of saying something, or whether this is actually under consideration. Given that there already have been rumors that LGW might be cut, BW might feel compelled to make vague statements about that route, to counteract this information. That is until they decide what to do.


I will say that those 767 planes are quite convenient on the GEO route. As we see the loads were heavy, maybe with some people returning from Mashramani, which is the Guyana carnival. With B6 nibbling away on the POS routes, GEO will become even more important for BW, as it is a market where they will still retain some level of pricing flexibility, given that their competitors are weak.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 209): Well at the ROUTES America event their Acting CEO spoke about expanding the LGW frequencies. I don't know whether he just said this for the sake of saying something, or whether this is actually under consideration.

Rule number one in the airline business is that everything is always under consideration. Rule number two is keep your competition guessing.

Seriously though Captn Singh is a nice guy. I do think he has the airline's best interest at heart. Whether or not he has the tools and the support staff around him to make it work might be another story.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 209): With B6 nibbling away on the POS routes, GEO will become even more important for BW,

Not just B6.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 210): Not just B6.

Who else is on the JFK-POS besides B6 & BW?

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 211):

UA does EWR POS, but only 1X per week.

Who else other than B6. AA and BW already have a stable competitive relationship. Don't know that either is nibbling from the other.

Yellow tail do you have new information?

[Edited 2014-03-05 08:41:58]

Quoting guyanam (Reply 212): Yellow tail do you have new information?

I don't take the bait that easily.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 211): Who else is on the JFK-POS besides B6 & BW?

Well for now….

I have seen many pax flying POS-MIA-JFK/LGA……I usually end up seated next to them. AA is a viable competitor on this route even it is one stop.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 213):

Why mention something if you aren't going to disclose further? If you can't disclose, don't tempt us.

AA has long been taking passengers on the JFK POS, Those willing to endure the inconvenience of MIA for lower fares. Or when the direct flights are filled. Many of these I suspect will be on B6, which is offering very low fares,as they try to build market share.

I dont consider AA to be a competitor on that route because BW isnt willing to match fares, for those who are that price sensitive that they will undergo the potential horrors of a MIA intransit. Or those who are locked into AAs FF program. This is an example of where AA has their people, and BW theirs.

The new guy on the block who threaten BW wil be B6. We'll then see how loyal Trinis really are. Those who fly BW because they have to (don't want the MIA stop) will now have a choice. One thing we can be sure of is that the high airfares of last year will not occur this year.

Someone PLEASE put me out of my misery and try to confirm or dismiss this rumor...

Quote taken from today's Barbados Today:

"Very reliable Government sources told Barbados TODAY that a twice-weekly flight from Bogota, Colombia,
was due to begin serving this island from September. The sources said the new service should bring an
additional 100 passengers and help develop the Latin American market, with connections to Argentina, Chile,
Peru and other Colombian cities."

There is NO other confirmation anywhere that I have access to... Could it really be that AV is starting a BOG-BGI flight?

As much as I would love it, I just cannot believe it...

The next Liat ATR has been listed on planespotters. An ATR 42-600, MSN 1009. Interestingly enough, the ATR 72-600 that was listed to go to Air Caraibes, MSN 1124 is now listed as NTU and will now go to Avianca.

Quoting turk223 (Reply 215): There is NO other confirmation anywhere that I have access to... Could it really be that AV is starting a BOG-BGI flight? As much as I would love it, I just cannot believe it...

That sure does sound difinitive. I cannot find anything official though. I'll try some of my Government of Barbados contacts- if indeed true, then they must be providing some sort of revenue incentive/ guarantee.

For those interested in the full article referenced by turk223: http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2014/03/03/air-link/

In other news there's an article on page 10 of the Daily Express (T&T) regarding CAL and the possibility of servicing St. Vincent. I couldn't find the article online, but I did find this-

http://cananewsonline.com/news/96184-cal-looking-to-st-vincent.html



Cheers,
AA1818

[Edited 2014-03-06 04:21:01]

[Edited 2014-03-06 04:36:38]

Quoting turk223 (Reply 215): The sources said the new service should bring an additional 100 passengers

I would hope that it would bring more than 100  

Seriously, I have heard nothing about BOG-BGI…….but I sure hope it is true. Maybe it is tied to a travel agency.

It has been a very long time since I last posted my latest aircraft photos here so here is new batch:

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

View Large View Medium Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography

I hope you like them.


A388

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 220): Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 216): The next Liat ATR has been listed on planespotters. An ATR 42-600, MSN 1009. Interestingly enough, the ATR 72-600 that was listed to go to Air Caraibes, MSN 1124 is now listed as NTU and will now go to Avianca. See photo http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2014/02/10/140210070332220052.jpg

I have missed LIAT's ATR42 twice so far here in CUR. I really hope to see it here some day, unfortunately nobody seems to know (in advance) if there is an aircraft swap to the ATR42 on the flights to CUR.

A388

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 217):

Well I guess that Ralph Gonsalves will be less hostile to BW as he might need them to use his international airport when needed. Its not obvious that SVD generates enough traffic, or has enough hotel rooms to entice the major international carriers to fly there. As is GND struggles to get service.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 218):

What I am wondering is why the G3 flight to BGI is struggling, and why a flight from BOG will do any better/ After all Brazil is a huge market and BGI doesn't suffer distances disadvantage the way it does from Colombia, where AUA, CUR, MBJ, and PUJ are much closer than BGI. A problem that BGI has is that it is one of the more expensive Caribbean destinations, and with Latin currencies weakening relative to the US $ this is becoming a more critical factor for tourism out of that region.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 214): Why mention something if you aren't going to disclose further? If you can't disclose, don't tempt us

I think NK and WN are not too far away.... now that they're more and more flying to the caribbean/c. america, maybe one day?

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222): Well I guess that Ralph Gonsalves will be less hostile to BW as he might need them to use his international airport when needed. Its not obvious that SVD generates enough traffic, or has enough hotel rooms to entice the major international carriers to fly there. As is GND struggles to get service.

Now and then you'll listen to me talking how immigration treat people, mainly after my BGI nightmare, yes the LI flight I took from SVD to POS in february 2011 was packed, one of the last things I remember was this vincentian woman asking me: "did you see a man in blue, he was just behind you in the line" I said "yes he's clearing immigration", I didn't want to tell her that the women (immigration officer) was aggressively interviewing the man as he appeared to have several trini stamps on his passport, I'll never know if was allowed in as I didn't see him on the customs area. So keep that in mind, not only the Guyanese...

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222): What I am wondering is why the G3 flight to BGI is struggling, and why a flight from BOG will do any better/ After all Brazil is a huge market and BGI doesn't suffer distances disadvantage the way it does from Colombia, where AUA, CUR, MBJ, and PUJ are much closer than BGI

I think I've said before here, as a northern brazilian citizen, I've never, EVER heard/saw G3 promoting this flight, or whatsoever, not on TV, neither on radio/billboard/ internet... So I think your answer is there, to this date I think it's a more political or maybe even strategic route for them, don't asked me why they axed SXM.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222): A problem that BGI has is that it is one of the more expensive Caribbean destinations

After GCM, BDA, NAS or even EIS.... I doubt it.

http://www.caribbean360.com/index.ph...sue_048_News3_7_2014#axzz2vLNrFItQ



LIAT to axe unprofitable routes. I guess now that they are in serious financial trouble (can't meet payroll or make lease payments on a guaranteed basis) They will have to carry out threats. They have already axed CIW, and NEV. So which other islands? STX, PTP, FDF, CUR, and AXA axed, with cuts to EIS, STT, SKB, and GND? SKB and GND will definitely feel pain as they refuse to invest in LI. St L also refuses to, but they are large market so may be spared.

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:50:14]

[Edited 2014-03-07 21:51:49]

Well a lot seems to be happening in regional aviation.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 224): LIAT to axe unprofitable routes. I guess now that they are in serious financial trouble (can't meet payroll or make lease payments on a guaranteed basis) They will have to carry out threats.

Once again we hear of LI threatening to cut routes. Once again we are left wondering what is really going on with them. After having taken steps to improve the carrier's situation with new ATR planes and a change of management, things continue to remain rough for them. The truth is that both CIW and NEV have been cut and restarted in the past - have they been cut again? And CIW is part of one of their shareholders! Could the POS base, or routes from there, be at risk? After all their griping about BW's expansion into some regional markets, LI have kept their base there going.

Quoting A388 (Reply 219): It has been a very long time since I last posted my latest aircraft photos here so here is new batch:

Great pictures man! Please keep up the good work.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 212): UA does EWR POS, but only 1X per week.

That increases to daily during the summer months.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 217): In other news there's an article on page 10 of the Daily Express (T&T) regarding CAL and the possibility of servicing St. Vincent. I couldn't find the article online, but I did find this-

Could this be the reason for LI's increasing angst. BWIA flew the Dash 8s on a daily POS - SVD service between 1999 and 2004 under the Bwee Express brand and promoted it as part of their "World Of Choices" programme at the time. That BW should venture into the heart of LI territory now would probably have LI worried.

Trintocan.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 225):

actually LI must be sweating bullets as their SVD route is supposedly one of their most profitable. If their airport, to be opened next year, attracts service, LI loses out big time.

I don't know that CIW even needed LI as I doubt the well heeled types would use them when private jets can land there. LI has threatened NEV for a long time, and now seem to have gotten serious. NEV has Fly Montserrat to replace them to ANU. That is actually more appropriate for flights to the smallest islands, as landing a 50 seater Dash 8 to pick up 10 passengers in NEV makes no sense.

Even SKB might need to see less LI and more SVG Air from ANU at off peak times of the day. With flights arriving from MIA, ATL, CLT, JFK, LGW and in the winter, from LI to connect to hubs any more.
I see Winair becoming more active as well.

LI has much more serious financial problems than at any time in the past. With ANU, and BGI facing major problems themselves they don't have the cash to pour into LI. Other OECS islands are even worse off. The lease costs for the ATRs is high, and they have to begin to pay off their CDB loan next year. I have never heard of them having to delay pay before, and they only just avoided the ATRs being seized. With the decline in intra Caribbean travel their load factors have tumbled. LI has a problem in that it sees huge spikes in passengers when there are special events, like some Christian crusade on some islands attracting 3,000 passengers. Some alternative arrangements will have to be made to accommodate some of this.

SVD no longer cares about LI as their airport is expected to be open sometime next year. All they hope is that LI survives until then. After that BW will be welcome to fly to SVD from POS and even BGI if LI cant. They may even have to beg BW to do flights to JFK if neither DL, nor B6 are interested. That's where most Vincies in the USA live.

[Edited 2014-03-08 04:36:45]

[Edited 2014-03-08 04:41:21]

[Edited 2014-03-08 04:42:25]

Guyanam, CUR isn't axed by LIAT. Where did you get that information?

Trintocan, thanks for your nice comments on my aircraft photos  


Cheers,

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 227):

I am not saying that they are axed. I am hypothesizing about which destinations other than CIW and NEV might be axed. I don't see CUR as core to its operations, and they have already reduced service from 3x to 2x per week. People wanting to fly to CUR can use PY

What no one is saying, but might indeed be a possibility is that LI might not be able to afford the entire 12 plane order. But the Dash 8s have to go. So they might be looking at a smaller fleet. With CUR being long haul (by LI standards) it might not be efficient to service, as it ties up a plane for a long period, plus crew time, that might be better spent on core routes. I doubt that CUR will provide a subsidy if the route isn't profitable. SDQ seems to enjoy high loads as they have INCREASED service. Maybe with Eagle gone LI gets the business.

Guyanam to my knowledge the CUR route is still a good route. I just tried to look for seat availability and couldn't get a return flight. With a high fare of around 600 U.S. Dollars I doubt this route is unprofitable. And I'm not talking about the cargo they also take.

In any case I really hope they don't axe the CUR route

EDIT: I correct myself, I looked at the wrong days of operation to search for availability and the price has now gone down to 410 U.S. Dollars.

I hope LIAT will stay in CUR.

A388

[Edited 2014-03-08 11:03:09]

Quoting A388 (Reply 229):

Well it depends on if they are profitable. They only do CUR 2X per week, having eliminated one of its flights. LI will most likely have to down size its operations with a smaller fleet, as money anticipated from its owner gov'ts doesn't seem to be materializing. Given that SKB, SLU, and GND are all under IMF programs, its not likely that they will be allowed to invest millions in an airline.

There are some who think that LI will collapse this year, or next unless big changes are made. Given that PY operates on this route, unless it is highly profitable for LI, and that CUR isn't a core destination, its very likely to be gone. Core destinations will be POS, SVD,BGI,SLU,DOM,ANU,SXM,SJU. All else can expected some scrutiny. GEO is safe because that flight is almost always full.

Thanks Guyanam, if LI indeed will stop CUR when do you think it will be stopped?

As I wanted to fly on their brandnew ATR's I am thinking of booking (if money permits of course) so it will be good to know when it will be axed.

How is the weather in POS by the end of this month or at the end of May? Is it rainy or cloudy or sunny? Are both 767's of Caribbean Airlines flying these days or coming months or are they scheduled to receive some maintenance?

A388

Quoting guyanam (Reply 230):

Don't say that, I still plan to fly liat this year  

Quoting A388 (Reply 231):

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 232):

There is absolutely no way that LIAT will be allowed to collapse as it is the only way that people can travel around the E/Caribbean as you know.

Does it mean transformation? Yes as LI has deep financial problems at a time when CARICOM countries also have deep problems.

The question is will LI be run as a commercial enterprise with unprofitable routes eliminated. And "social" routes subsidized by the impacted country on a revenue guarantee basis?

Or will they be a vendetta against SKB, SLU, and GND who haven't committed to invest into LI. If so LI might shoot itself in the foot because SLU will then make arrangements with BW, and Air Antilles, and SKB with Winair, and LI loses market share at a time when it need every drop of revenue that it can get.

I don't trust them to do the right thing.

What ever moves LI makes will have to be done by the summer. They have been using their staff to balance their cash flow by paying them late. LI already has very bad relations with its staff and if this continues there will definitely be industrial action, so LI will have to cut costs by then. Some staff will have to lose jobs, More outsourcing of ground operations is possible. Some of the most unprofitable routes will be cut, and the smaller markets will see less service.

Also if LI is smart, they would establish closer ties with SVG Air to operate certain flights to certain destinations on its behalf.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 224):

I doubt STX will get cut. They already cut it to 4x wk, then reduced to 3x wk. Every flight is booked solid with fares of $350 usd for STX-SXM and $400 for STX-SXM-ANU and they do daily flights during Antigua carnival. 20 to 25 percent of St. Croix is Antiguan, Kittitian and Nevisian descent. I just doubt that LI would axe such an important link for our community.

Quoting dominicl316 (Reply 234):

Why was STX cut if its a strong route? What are the loads when t isn't Xmas, Easter, and the summer?

Based on current loads LIAT is about 25% too big. Something has to give. Maybe STX good survive on its reduced schedule. But LI cannot continue as is.

[Edited 2014-03-09 15:53:55]

BW to begin POS SVD by mid April. Apparently even Ralph Gonsalves isn't concerned about competition against LI anymore.

As I've said before Guyanam here in SKB we only really need LI for SXM flights and that is only because most locals have a phobia about WM's twin otters. Other than that fact we tend to look more towards MIA, JFK and to some extent ATL. Locals are choosing these destinations more and more over even SJU for shopping and residency status just because of the high airfares charged on intra-regional routes.
These Caribbean Govts. need to stop talking about a decline in regional when they are the root cause of this. One only has to look at the cost breakdown on a LI ticket and you will see that most of the cost comes from these govts.(shareholders included) taxing the airline and pax to death. As the regional airline I think LI and maybe all other indigenous airlines should be given a lower tax bracket to operate with. Then and only then can we really stimulate regional travel.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 238):

You are correct about the travel tax. Its a disgrace that one must pay US $300 to fly 50 miles to SXM, and almost as much to fly to ANU. It is therefore no surprise that lots of the spontaneous intra regional travel is no longer done. I just priced ANU SKB return at US$284. LI charges $123, plus the fuel surcharge (not indicated). The govts of SKN and ANU make a killing on that ticket. ANU has said that they have no interest in reducing taxes, even as they demand that SKN pours money into LI, whose survival prospects are quite dim, for a whole host of reasons, but partially due to the high taxes which is killing their source of revenues.

Don't know what they are going to do when SVD gets jets from next year, so they lose their connecting traffic via BGI.


SKN has seen its arrivals from the rest of the Caribbean tumble from 38k in 2006 to a scant 16k today. While the decline in other islands isn't as drastic it is still quite significant.

LI claims that 10 countries will suffer some loss of service. A few more maybe even dropped as NEV and CIW were recently. As of now they serve 19, Which means that only nine are secure. GEO (flights there are overbooked), POS, SVD.BGI.SLU (3rd largest market behind BGI and POS), DOM, ANU, SXM, are definitely secure.

Who knows what LI will do to the others, but I can assure you that GND and SKB will definitely be targeted because Gonsalves doesn't see why they shouldn't pour good money into a leaky bucket, despite their own financial problems. So you might well be left with WM, as the few LI flights might always be fully booked.

Also take note of the post by the person from STX. While people who live in SKB no longer fly to the USVI, there are SKN nationals who live in those islands, many of them ageing so unable to use Seaborne via SJU.

[Edited 2014-03-15 10:51:17]

Yes of course guyanam, but their choice is either Seaborne via SJU or LI via SXM or ANU. Either way some sort of connection is involved. LI loss might be WM's gain especially on the SKB-SXM route where LI makes most of it's $$$ from SKB especially if they upgauge to their ATR service.

LimaFoxTango, yes I received your email just in time and have taken a few nice photos. Finally I have it in my collection 

I tried searching LIAT flights on Flightradar24 but the status and registration was never known so I stopped tracking those flights.

Thanks again my friend 

Cheers,

A388

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 240):

Using LI will be easier to STX than Seaborne for the elderly as they don't have that long walk at SJU. For STT its the same plane, though not necessarily daily. Either way a loss of service to the USVI by LI will bring hardship. I assume that this is what LI means if SKB has any social routes. I know the early and afternoon flights to ANU are almost always full and SXM is a good route for them from SKB, though not the last flight.


Who knows, but I detect a tone of vindictiveness against the OECS islands which refuse to invest, rather than a real desire to make LI a commercial venture. Ironically running LI like a commercial enterprise might provide incentive for these recalcitrant islands to provide some support, if they don't feel that they are wasting $$$..

IMHO LI needs to stop bluffing and just announce which routes are money losers. Then either dropping them or getting revenue guarantees should a particular gov't think that a route is critical, even if not profitable. Comparisons to subsidies to BA, and AA aren't valid because those are revenue guarantees for particular routes, and not an attempt to prop up a poorly run enterprise riddled with gov't interference.

Gonsalves need to remember that most islands at this time has their own financial worries at this time and also remember how many $$$ that LI owed these same islands for many years(STT,SKB and SXM spring to mind) so no one is keen on investing in an entity that is losing money for as long as anyone can remember. Also LI is not as great a contributor to the tourism sector of these islands as BA, AA et al. LI brought a lot of it's current woes on itself years ago when it destroyed CARIB Aviation which it had used successfully to operate it's thinner routes such as NEV, AXA, MNI and DOM. I don't know if I should actually call the SKB-AXA route back then thin as flights were always full on the midday Carib Aviation flight and on the late afternoon LI flight that continued on to STT and return. Even the 8B flight that was similarly timed would operate full outbound and then continue to EIS

[Edited 2014-03-16 04:02:49]

I think the best course of action for the Caribbean as a whole is to let BW be the international arm and LI to provide feeder service to the BW flights especially at ANU, SXM and BGI. Not too sure how well it might work at ANU as most locals are skeptical of transitting via ANU as opposed to SXM.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 239): You are correct about the travel tax. Its a disgrace that one must pay US $300 to fly 50 miles to SXM, and almost as much to fly to ANU. It is therefore no surprise that lots of the spontaneous intra regional travel is no longer done. I just priced ANU SKB return at US$284. LI charges $123, plus the fuel surcharge (not indicated). The govts of SKN and ANU make a killing on that ticket. ANU has said that they have no interest in reducing taxes, even as they demand that SKN pours money into LI, whose survival prospects are quite dim, for a whole host of reasons, but partially due to the high taxes which is killing their source of revenues.

I realize the customer point of view….but You have to keep it in perspective. LI has very real costs and those costs are spread over a few seats. 9N charges $240USD plus taxes and fuel surcharge on RTB-BZE ( a caribbean type demographic and route) and has zero problem filling the plane. Its how you position yourself, to whom you market and making your customer understand that it is the reality of doing business. LI also has very expensive aircraft.

Do you all even know the insurance cost on one ATR for a small operator?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 245): realize the customer point of view….but You have to keep it in perspective. LI has very real costs and those costs are spread over a few seats. 9N charges $240USD plus taxes and fuel surcharge on RTB-BZE ( a caribbean type demographic and route) and has zero problem filling the plane. Its how you position yourself, to whom you market and making your customer understand that it is the reality of doing business. LI also has very expensive aircraft. Do you all even know the insurance cost on one ATR for a small operator?

we're not talking about LI's personal taxes here which are included in the airfare. We're speaking of the taxes of the individual island govts. i.e. environmental tax, port facility upkeep tax plus all the other little tidbits thrown in there. For example take a look at LI's fare for SKB-SXM and you will see LI charges around $60us both ways but taxes especially on the SXM end has the tix closer to $300us roundtrip.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 245):

I don't think that people who are being fair demand that LI cut their fares. Indeed the examples that I cited shows that only 50-60% of the fare goes to LI, depending on what their fuel surcharge is.

What they demand is that CARICOM gov'ts reduce taxes on intra CARICOM travel, or cease bellyaching about how this source of tourism has declined. Look how many committees have been established to discuss intra Caribbean travel. Have we heard any conclusion? No, because if some one can fly POS MIA for just a little more than they can do POS BGI then MIA gets the business, assuming that they can get a US visa.


So gov'ts either reduce their taxes on flights a scant 20 minutes, or see Caribbean people opt for MIA rather than travel within the Caribbean. These Caribbean gov'ts are just being dishonest on this issue.. Or maybe the commissions are just another excuse to travel, with all the allowances that they get (much of it pocketed by the way).
Indeed SLU recently cut their taxes and as a result one can get a fare of US$263 to fly SLU POS, even though the LI fare is higher. T&T can well afford to cut their intra regional travel taxes. It will definitely help BW.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 244):

the new BW has a different model from the old BWIA. T&T is no longer interested in begging CARICOM nations to support a regional carrier. Their attitude is that islands like ANU are mainly leisure and that they aren't interested in competing for the thin and very seasonal VFR business with the majors. They prefer to focus on the big VFR markets like POS, GEO, KIN/MBJ. GND gets the business as there is little competition from the majors, and GND also provides revenue guarantees.

Maybe SVD might get BW to JFK if they can't get B6, or DL interested. But the notion of a BW LI cooperation is a nonstarter except maybe on issues surrounding their common ATR fleet. In fact BW is about to give LI pressure by jumping into the POS SVD route, and I am sure will add BGI SLU and BGI SVD as soon as allowed. These being some of :LIATs prize routes.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 243):

Gonsalves response will be to tell you that SKN, and SLU are richer than DOM and SVD, and if they don't value LI service then they ought not to get I. This especially applying to SKB, which is a small and declining market for LI. With its large population, and significant in and outbound regional traffic SLU will get service, unless LI is running mad. If they try to hurt SLU BW will be in their like a flash of lightening.

Lucky though that Gansalves and Douglas seem to be good friends (you know your local politics which I will not get into on this forum), so maybe he might beg for them.

Gonsalves can say what he wants SVD does not have the IMF to answer to, SKB does. Keep the SXM route and funnel everything else via ANU that is probably the best option for LI out of SKB. Like I said earlier they hurt themselves by destroying Carib Aviation.

Quoting 8b775zq (Reply 246): LI charges around $60us both ways

$60….no wonder they are losing money. THey need to be charging double that.