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LAXintl
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:55 pm

Today is the first day of AA's premium configured A321 service.

Inaugural‎ flight AA118 between LAX and JFK departed this morning and was operated by N102NN.

The new 102-seat A321 aircraft will gradually replace AA's 168-seat transcon B767-200 fleet this year.

First JFK-LAX flight will be AA133 later this afternoon to be operated by N101NN.



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I look forward to trying out one of these in the coming months.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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chrisnh
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Their A321s only seat 102 people?
 
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LAXintl
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:09 pm

10 F
20 C
36 Y+
36 Y
----
102
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Flighty
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Yes they are designed to get 95% of the premium revenue of the 762, and maybe 70% of the Economy revenue, on half the fuel.

That works out greatly in favor of a 102 seat A321, for these special markets.

[Edited 2014-01-07 10:12:48]
 
PDPsol
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:18 pm

Question for the forum: how similar are the business class J seats on these A321-T frames to the new seats on the B777-323ER fleet? Will AA install these new J seats on the existing 777-223ER and 767-323ER fleet when these frames get refurbished this year? I am flying LAX-PVG later this May on J and want to know whether I will get these new seats or those dreadful slanted things...

Will AA operate any A321s outside the transcon market, without premium seating? Will AA install these new J seats on other single-aisle aircraft, perhaps the 757-223 for international markets?
 
eastern747
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:15 pm

OH Goodie.....36 paid Y and a few paid Y+ seats, and the rest upgrades, mileage and employees. Great yields. DUH?
 
FoxBravo
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 4):
Question for the forum: how similar are the business class J seats on these A321-T frames to the new seats on the B777-323ER fleet?

They are totally different. The J seats on the A321T are more like United's BusinessFirst seats. However, the F seats on the A321T are basically the same as the J seats on the 7773ERs.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 4):
Will AA install these new J seats on the existing 777-223ER and 767-323ER fleet when these frames get refurbished this year? I am flying LAX-PVG later this May on J and want to know whether I will get these new seats or those dreadful slanted things...

Eventually AA will be installing flat seats on the 772s and 763s, but I don't believe the type has been announced yet. In any event I wouldn't expect any to be refurbished before May, so unfortunately you will likely have the existing angled seats.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 5):
OH Goodie.....36 paid Y and a few paid Y+ seats, and the rest upgrades, mileage and employees. Great yields. DUH?

I would imagine after 75 years or so of experience in the transcon market, AA probably has a pretty good idea of how many full F and J fares they can expect to sell. But maybe you know something they don't?
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
tripp7dfw
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 5):
OH Goodie.....36 paid Y and a few paid Y+ seats, and the rest upgrades, mileage and employees. Great yields. DUH?

Seriously Mr. Doom & Gloom? Let's review here. 1) The lower density seating incentivizes the purchase of F/J fares; 2) the product is designed to be top-of-the-line thus further incentivizing premium bookings; 3) mileage awards/upgrades seem to be extremely few and far between - if not completely zeroed out - during the rollout of these new AC 4) I'd imagine it's pretty darn difficult for most airline employees to nonrev during peak i.e. "money making" times; 5) there's a definite opportunity for AA to attack DL/UA by going premium heavy in style and substance with those two diluting their soft products and de-exclusifying (my submission to Mirriam-Webster there) the J cabin and eliminating F altogether; 6) the A321T will become the prohibitive Hollywood and banking favorite overnight.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 6):
I would imagine after 75 years or so of experience in the transcon market, AA probably has a pretty good idea of how many full F and J fares they can expect to sell. But maybe you know something they don't?

Hmm, this guy seems to be on to something  
 
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Acey559
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:16 pm

Just out of curiosity I checked the loads for tomorrow and predictably they're packed. Of course I know this doesn't account for who may have upgraded or used miles, but there certainly doesn't seem to be a shortage of people on the planes.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
gigneil
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 5):
OH Goodie.....36 paid Y and a few paid Y+ seats, and the rest upgrades, mileage and employees. Great yields. DUH?

United doesn't allow UDUs on p.s., I imagine that American doesn't either.

Doesn't matter - those classes will be sold out long before upgrade windows thanks to financial, SAG, and real estate traffic.

NS
 
MAH4546
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
United doesn't allow UDUs on p.s., I imagine that American doesn't either.

Of course AA does, just only to J and not to F. Often a tough upgrade, though, unless it is Saturday.

[Edited 2014-01-07 13:58:01]

[Edited 2014-01-07 13:58:24]
a.
 
panamair
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
United doesn't allow UDUs on p.s., I imagine that American doesn't either.

AA allows their version of UDUs (i.e., free for Exec Plats, upgrade stickers (either bought or earned) for the other elite levels) on their JFK-LAX/SFO transcons...finding upgrade inventory of course, is another story.
 
jetblueguy22
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:07 pm

I wish AA the best of luck! I may have to give this flight a try so I can add the A321 into my logbook. I do have one question though, what are the odds the aircraft would have to divert in the case of strong winds? Obviously it is lighter with only 102 passengers, but B6 occasionally has to make fuel stops on transcons, is there a chance they will have to do so in similar occasions as well?
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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airzim
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:22 pm

Prediction: in 5 years First Class is gone, I say 5 years since they will be too proud to admit that they never should have put it in the first place.

They will have to do something extraordinary in service given that this is basically a Business class seat. That's potentially an expensive proposition, when at least half of this cabin will be corporate upgrades on discounted J fares, FFP redemption, and maybe some long haul One World connections at a prorated fare. That is not great RASM with First Class CASMs. As what happened with United, they'll end up cutting the service standards in order to reduce the expenses to attempt profitability, then realize there's really no point keeping it around.

With United, Delta, JetBlue, and American in Business, all providing virtually the same product at less cost, I just can't see how this survives on an economic level.

The historic First Class market of full fare First is flying corporate today.
 
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Finn350
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 12):
I wish AA the best of luck! I may have to give this flight a try so I can add the A321 into my logbook. I do have one question though, what are the odds the aircraft would have to divert in the case of strong winds? Obviously it is lighter with only 102 passengers, but B6 occasionally has to make fuel stops on transcons, is there a chance they will have to do so in similar occasions as well?
Pat

Airbus A321 with sharklets range is supposed to be 3200 nm and JFK-LAX/SFO distance is only around 2200-2300 nm. There should be zero chance for a fuel stop.

I browsed older discussions, and it seems that B6 A320's were not equipped with the optional extra fuel tank, so during seasons of high winds aloft, fuel stops became more common.
 
B6JFKH81
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 14):
I browsed older discussions, and it seems that B6 A320's were not equipped with the optional extra fuel tank, so during seasons of high winds aloft, fuel stops became more common.

B6 tried the ACTs, I believe it was 5 aircraft. The benefits did not outweigh the drawbacks, and they were removed. I recall seeing (and smelling) the removed ACTs in their huge crates at Hangar 3 back in my early days at B6....so around late 2004/early 2005.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
TPA0822
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:15 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 13):
Prediction: in 5 years First Class is gone, I say 5 years since they will be too proud to admit that they never should have put it in the first place.

Three years at most. There are far more people who want to save a buck, and AA is leaving them all to the competitors.
 
MAH4546
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting TPA0822 (Reply 16):
There are far more people who want to save a buck, and AA is leaving them all to the competitors.

Those customers aren't profitable. AA is fine with that. It will be offering a shuttle service with hourly departures between LA and NY by mid-June. That's going to bring in (or help lock-in) far more valuable passengers.

Fully agree with sentiments the F cabin is too, big though. I expect it to shrink to 6F within 3-5 years.
a.
 
wn676
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 14):
I browsed older discussions, and it seems that B6 A320's were not equipped with the optional extra fuel tank, so during seasons of high winds aloft, fuel stops became more common.
Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 15):
B6 tried the ACTs, I believe it was 5 aircraft. The benefits did not outweigh the drawbacks, and they were removed. I recall seeing (and smelling) the removed ACTs in their huge crates at Hangar 3 back in my early days at B6....so around late 2004/early 2005.

US flies with two ACTs in their A321s and I would imagine AA does as well with theirs. I'd be surprised if they didn't. It gives them an air time of around 6-6.5 hours with a full payload, often times including a fair amount of freight and mail as well. With the A320s at B6 I believe they posed a volume as well as weight issue, but they seem much better suited for the stretch bus.

[Edited 2014-01-07 15:37:06]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
gigneil
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:13 am

Yeah in fact US's A321s stop much less frequently than the A320s do.

NS
 
SKY1
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:40 am

Do people remember this thread: AA Replacement For The MD80's And A300-600. (by CV990 Oct 8 2005 in Civil Aviation) (2005)

Let's go to have some laugh right now  

I would bet my bank account that AA will not buy an A320 (reply 18)


RE: Possiblity Of AA Buying A320 (by Ikramerica Jul 14 2006 in Civil Aviation) (2006)

Still, the chances are quite remote....unless Airbus was selling them at 70% off the list price (reply 3)

I think there is zero chance (and I rarely make such absolute statements) that AA orders any A320s. (reply 7)

AA will never buy Airbus (reply 11)

Why order the A320 when they could order more 737 which they already operates? Yep. There really isn't anything to debate here. (28)

The days when AA can order everything with 2 wings are long gone. (29)

But again, none of this matters because AA won't buy the A320. It's not up for debate (37)

Considering that AA has been trying to keep maintenance and training costs low, I can't see it ordering aircraft from the A320 line (44)

In any case, its exteremely unlikely that we will see any version of the A32X family flying in AA colors (49)

Not a chance, AA will never buy Airbus..... (50)

Meanwhile, I'm sure AA will always "consider" Airbus, but not really. Just to get a better deal from Boeing. Yes, the 737 is in fact the Chuck Norris of airliners. (56)

---------------------------------------------

When in 2006 I was reading that I said me "I save it for the day when AA will put on the air its first A32X series revenue flight"

I wonder if that thread has the sad distinction of heading the most biased discussion in airliners.net ...Time puts each of us in our place.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
klkla
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:06 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 20):
AA will never buy Airbus (reply 11)

Technically aren't all the Airbus 319/321's leased? If that's the case they still haven't bought Airbus.
 
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fxramper
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:10 am

Will AA dump the 757 pos on EWR-LAX and give us a shiny 321?   
 
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WROORD
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:18 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The new 102-seat A321 aircraft will gradually replace AA's 168-seat transcon B767-200 fleet this year.

Are those 767s retired or moved to a different market? I guess after that takes place DL will remain the only airline to operate widebody on JFK to LAX route.
 
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Tigerguy
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:22 am

Got a LAX-JFK coming up next month, and I strongly considered the A321, but I needed the 762 redeye. Doesn't sound like a lot of seats, but they should make it work if they get people to pay for the front seats consistently.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The new 102-seat A321 aircraft will gradually replace AA's 168-seat transcon B767-200 fleet this year.

Isn't that supposed to be by May? I seem to recall that time frame.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 22):
Will AA dump the 757 pos on EWR-LAX and give us a shiny 321?

Joke's on you. The 757 is already shinier than the 321.   
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
LipeGIG
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:44 am

Easy to see that old days of USD 100 fares are over for transcons. Just the revenue premium added with higher economy fares will be good and now remember, less J means also less upgrades (use to be 30J, now is just 20J)
In the end will be a few available, specially during premium schedule time.

I believe AA will even add more flights in the end.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Flighty
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 19):

Yeah in fact US's A321s stop much less frequently than the A320s do.

Very true, and those are up to 13 years older and without winglets, AND carry almost double the people+bags of AA's model.

And they still don't have any problems. So this topic can go night night.
 
MAH4546
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 23):
I guess after that takes place DL will remain the only airline to operate widebody on JFK to LAX route.

But not for long. Delta will be switching to an all-757 service with newly configured trans-con 757 fleet.
a.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 22):
Quoting Tigerguy (Reply 24):

Actually AA currently flies the 737-800 on EWR-LAX so jokes on both of you!    
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
phlwok
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:45 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 26):
Very true, and those are up to 13 years older and without winglets, AND carry almost double the people+bags of AA's model.

And they still don't have any problems. So this topic can go night night.

AA will be fine with them and will save a ton on fuel versus the 762. IIRC US waited for the A321-200 to become available for the higher gross weight and range versus the -100, taking only the 319, 320 and 330-300 on the early part of their deliveries from their first big Airbus order and adding the 321 later on to replace the 757 on most West Coast flying.

I fly PHL-West Coast all the time on US and I can't recall the last time we had a headwind-induced fuel diversion. Now, the older ex-HP A320s? Those do divert more, and we've gassed up in DEN a number of times in past winters en route SFO on those.
 
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lightsaber
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:14 am

102 seats in an A321?    and I thought B6 putting in only 150 was going to be roomy.  

This is definitely a premium configuration. AA knows how to load up the flights for premium connections. Not to mention the 762 was burning so much fuel per passenger it was time to retire them.


Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
Fully agree with sentiments the F cabin is too, big though. I expect it to shrink to 6F within 3-5 years.

I wouldn't be surprised. But let's see if this economic expansion continues. If so, within 3 years AA might be looking very good...


Lightsaber
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JAAlbert
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting TPA0822 (Reply 16):
There are far more people who want to save a buck, and AA is leaving them all to the competitors.

Is AA transforming all its LAX-JFK flights to a premium product? My understanding was that AA would continue to have some flights on the more traditional sardine can seating arrangement.
 
astuteman
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:41 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 12):
what are the odds the aircraft would have to divert in the case of strong winds?

Only took 12 replies.....

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 15):
B6 tried the ACTs, I believe it was 5 aircraft. The benefits did not outweigh the drawbacks, and they were removed. I recall seeing (and smelling) the removed ACTs in their huge crates at Hangar 3 back in my early days at B6....so around late 2004/early 2005

I understand the introduction of a 1T hike in MTOW fixed that for later builds

Quoting Flighty (Reply 26):
Very true, and those are up to 13 years older and without winglets, AND carry almost double the people+bags of AA's model.

And they still don't have any problems. So this topic can go night night.

It can. But will it?  

Rgds
 
ExL10Mktg
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:02 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 10):

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
United doesn't allow UDUs on p.s., I imagine that American doesn't either.

Of course AA does, just only to J and not to F. Often a tough upgrade, though, unless it is Saturday.

   Typically J is booked 20/25+ a week out and there are usually 20+ upgrade requests on standby at the gate, so at least two thirds -- and frequently higher -- are revenue J. Upgrades always fill the cabin (with rare exceptions) so there is virutally no chance of a non rev snagging one of those seats.

Quoting airzim (Reply 13):
Prediction: in 5 years First Class is gone, I say 5 years since they will be too proud to admit that they never should have put it in the first place.

Not a chance. Two years ago they had to increase the F cabin in the 762s from 9 to 10. AA is the only carrier offering a true F in this market and between Hollywood, bankers and lawyers the demand is very, very strong. You don't know this market.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
Fully agree with sentiments the F cabin is too, big though. I expect it to shrink to 6F within 3-5 years.

I rather doubt it. They currently have 10 F seats per flight and they are full nearly every flight, nearly every day. When you approach a 100% LF, you are turning traffic away so the increase from 9 to 12 flights a day should stabilize loads fairly quickly. Those are all big revenue tickets so better to have a few empty seats flying every day than lose the extra revenue. Reducing to 6 F in 3 years would mean a reduction to 72 seats from last year's 90. Not likely in the cards.
 
ferpe
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:44 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 32):
I understand the introduction of a 1T hike in MTOW fixed that for later builds
Quoting astuteman (Reply 32):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 26):
Very true, and those are up to 13 years older and without winglets, AND carry almost double the people+bags of AA's model.

And they still don't have any problems. So this topic can go night night.

It can. But will it?

Guys, don't be so snarky Big grin because you show with your comments that you have not understood the issue as well .

You think it is a matter how much the 321 can lift, has nothing to do with it. The A321 simply runs out of fuel despite taking of with full tanks if there is headwinds, this happens at 2400nm still air distance (with sharklets). The A321 needs more fuel tankage, the wing tanks are to small for what it can do, it can load 23 tonnes of fuel before the MTOW starts to be reached in std config and the tanks are full at 18.7t.

[Edited 2014-01-07 23:46:56]
Non French in France
 
LH422
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:46 am

 
LY777
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:51 am

What a shame this flagship route is no longer operated by a wide body. AA could have ordered the 787-3 for this route, when it was still offered...

Personally, I fly mainly in Y, and I don't like to be seated on the last 6 rows of an a/c, particularly on an A321 due to noise and fishtailing in this part of the plane. Another reason to avoid AA (at least in Y)
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
Pihero
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:12 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 34):
You think it is a matter how much the 321 can lift, has nothing to do with it. The A321 simply runs out of fuel despite taking of with full tanks if there is headwinds, this happens at 2400nm still air distance (with sharklets).

Errr ... I disagree :
In AA configuration the mass budget comes thus, (all figures rounded up in excess ) :
OEW = 45 T
Load = 13 T ( 102 pax heavy with luggage )
Fuel = 19 T
Ramp = 77 T

That's a very light aircraft !.. 16 T below the designed 93 T version or 8T below the 85 T bird.

The equivalent mass budget will be a *normally equipped* A321 with a load of 15 T:

The ACAPS then gives it a range - with reserves - of some 3200 Nm. More than enough to fly transcont.
(... and btw, i'd doubt very much AA would have called it 321 *T* if there were a slightest risk of it having to make a fuel stop )

[Edited 2014-01-08 02:24:23]
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hibtastic
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:19 am

I would trust AA to know what it is doing more than some of the "experts" making comments on here. AA after all had many many years of demand data when making its decision on its plans for the Transcontinental routes.
 
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scbriml
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 36):
AA could have ordered the 787-3 for this route, when it was still offered...

And what would they have done when Boeing pulled the plug on the -3?  

With the economics of the A321, AA will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Finn350
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:40 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 37):
Fuel = 19 T

The usable fuel capacity is according to A321 ACAPS:
- 18.604 kg with no ACT
- 20.935 kg with 1 ACT
- 23.301 kg with 2 ACT

I assume the payload/range chart is with 2 ACT. In any case, there will be no fuel stops for this AA aircraft.
 
Pihero
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:13 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 40):
The usable fuel capacity is according to A321 ACAPS:- 18.604 kg with no ACT- 20.935 kg with 1 ACT- 23.301 kg with 2 ACT

It depends on which fuel density you use.
Density of .8 Kg/l is a good ball park figure... and all the figures I gave are just that.
The usable fuel is 23,700 l / 26,700 with 1 ACT / 29,700 with two ACTs, so in mass :
18.960 T / 21.360 T / 23.760 T
As I used, for my demo only two significant digits : 19 T / 21 T / 24 T
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bjorn14
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:55 am

People are forgetting that AA's SAG contract requires them to have an F class. They won't be removing those seats anytime soon.
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LY777
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:02 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 39):
And what would they have done when Boeing pulled the plug on the -3?

Boeing wouldn't have cancelled the 787-3 if there were more orders
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scbriml
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 43):
Boeing wouldn't have cancelled the 787-3 if there were more orders

I wouldn't be so sure given the mess that the 787 program was at the time. It's not like AA would have needed a large fleet for transcon ops.

Anyway, moot point - they didn't order them. Now they have the best available option.
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astuteman
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:20 pm

Quoting Ferpe, reply=34:
Guys, don't be so snarky because you show with your comments that you have not understood the issue as well


LOL, my friend. Thanks for teaching your grandmother to suck eggs .....  
I understand the "issue" a lot better than you think, I'd suggest.

My first comment was aimed specifically at Jetblue's A320's, not A321's, when they found that the ACT's didn't help because the plane WAS MTOW limited when fuelled for a very strong headwind.
I understand from previous discussions on these forums that the increase from 77t to 78t was expressly at B6's request, and sorted the problem.

As for the second, for what its worth I'm pretty familiar with the A321 ACAP, and the basis of it's range/payload chart.
The range/payload chart is indeed based on 2 ACT's and a 23 1/2 tonne fuel load.

Indeed it's my assumption that the "legend" of the A321's "poor" performance comes from exactly the point you described, applied to A321's NOT equipped with any ACT's.
I am not surprised that an A321 specified thus may run into US transcon issues from time to time given a strong headwind.

The longest A321 sector that I remember seeing when we discussed this was Spanair's flights from Narvik to Las Palmas - 2 700Nm nominal with 212 seats (obviously with ACT's, and without winglets), which is within c. 100Nm of the ACAP range/payload chart, and puts to bed any notion that a properly configured A321 will have a problem on US transcons - especially a new one equipped with sharklets, which should be 100Nm better still

http://wwww.airliners.net/aviation-f...ms/aviation_polls/read.main/122090

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timpdx
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:21 pm

This is a plane that I would love to fly. And being in the back where I usually fly, I can imagine how easy deplaning will be with only 109 pax on board. Those pics show a real nice product all around. Kudos to AA.
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ferpe
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:02 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 45):
I understand the "issue" a lot better than you think, I'd suggest.

OK, then my fault    as I did not read your comments that way  
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GSPSPOT
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting TPA0822 (Reply 16):
Three years at most. There are far more people who want to save a buck, and AA is leaving them all to the competitors.
Quoting TPA0822 (Reply 16):
Those customers aren't profitable. AA is fine with that. It will be offering a shuttle service with hourly departures between LA and NY by mid-June. That's going to bring in (or help lock-in) far more valuable passengers.

As has been stated here an in many other places, the NYC-California transcons are very different from your garden variety routes between other large population centers. There are apparently plenty of high-dollar clients for these flights.
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airbazar
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AA First A321 Transcons - Jan 7, 2014

Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
Those customers aren't profitable. AA is fine with that.

I'm not convicend that the heavily discounted corporate contracts flying in F class are profitable either   But that's irrelevant. Even if the route doesn't make a lot of money it will more than likely make up for it networkwise and in value added when it's time to renew those corporate contracts or sign new ones.

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