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Joshu
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:29 am

The plane's registration is N272WN.
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ozark1
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:29 am

It started with the LGA accident, then with the MDW debacle and now this. WN is finally getting to have a dose of media madness like the legacys have been dealing with for years.
 
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mercure1
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 50):
Look at the far end of this runway and imagine what would have happened if they went off the end

lucky indeed, based on pax load they were probably at an approach of around 130-135kts. At a weight of 130klbs, the max manual braking stopping distance is around 3000ft for normal braking action.
mercure f-wtcc
 
Drewski2112
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:48 am

I've regularly seen 737-800 first flights out of RNT with four hours of fuel takeoff in under 3000.' Should be no problem for a repositioning flight.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:50 am

This could have been a really bad situation. Even at sea level, 3700 feet is pretty short for a B737. To be legal at most landing weights, you would likely need considerably more runway. If it had rained or snowed earlier or the thrust reversers had been inop or they landed a little further down the runway than the touchdown area, this plane would have gone off the other end. On a hot summer night, it would have likely gone off the other end. Heck, even in the current situation he may have been lucky to not go off the other end. For a B737, its very tight on landing distance in perfect conditions

Takeoff will be an issue as well. Remember, runway length is only one part of the things needed for takeoff. You have to legally clear obstacles such as trees that may be present, accelerate-stop distance in case of an engine failure at or before V1 and be in the weight limits for these conditions. Just because a plane has a lot of power doesn't mean it wont have a lot of issues taking off from such a short runway especially if there are trees or other obstacles in the takeoff path. 3700 ft is a very short runway.

They will find a way to get the plane off the runway but it will be interesting to see how they get the plane inside legal limits for takeoff.
 
apodino
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:50 am

So is WN doing proving runs for STOL certification?  
 
AR385
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:50 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 39):
Ridiculous assessment. Looking at only the outcome of an event is the worst way to determine how safe it actually was.

I agree. I was responding to this:

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 27):
In that other thread about safest airlines, this just knocked WN down a notch or two.

So don´t blame the messenger.
 
71Zulu
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:55 am

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KPLK

Additional Remarks

A57-30 37:1 TO DSPLCD THLD.
A57-12 50:1 TO DSPLCD THLD.
- NO SAFETY/OVERRUN AREAS AT RY ENDS-LARGE DROP-OFFS. STEEP TERRAIN GRADIENTS ALONG RY PVMT EDGES.

*********************************************************

Quoting AR385 (Reply 58):
So don´t blame the messenger.

Ok, point taken, I thought the list was about safety and not just fatalities.

[Edited 2014-01-12 21:01:07]
 
maxpower1954
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:01 am

Guys - it's not like this hasn't happened before. And they haven't had to truck one out yet!

1969 - Seaboard World Super DC-8-63 lands at the wrong airport - 3,200 foot long Marble Mountain Army airfield, South Vietnam. Check out the video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bvK6enoQDg

And another one, from 1962 - United DC-8 lands at Troutdale Airport's 4,400 foot runway instead of Portland International.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRMd62MmePI

[Edited 2014-01-12 21:16:18]
 
n6238p
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:02 am

It's pretty illegal to land at an airport without any landing and performance data.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
UALFAson
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:37 am

A college buddy of mine (who also happens to be a big aviation buff) was on this flight and is providing a play-by-play on his Facebook page. He said the pilots told the passengers "Ladies and gentlemen, we can't move this plane, because we are not sure the runway can support it."

He says he could tell they were braking really hard upon landing but everyone remained calm, including the crew who served generous snacks and beverages. After 90 minutes they brought air stairs and the passengers deplaned to be put on busses to BKG where they will eventually board another flight to DAL. That's when they got a glimpse of how close they were to the cliff at the end of the runway.

Will follow up with any further interesting details.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
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TheRedBaron
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:41 am

This landings on wrong airports are happening way too frequently for my liking...

What the heck's going on...

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Jerseyguy
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:59 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 62):
That's when they got a glimpse of how close they were to the cliff at the end of the runway.

Do we even want to know how close it was??
 
ouboy79
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:06 am

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 64):
Do we even want to know how close it was??

I'm sure the media and every other idiot looking to get all the drama and hype in every story will let us know to the inch.  

Glad everyone is alright.
 
Stackhouse007
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:16 am

I'm curious how long it took the flight attendants to realize something wasn't normal? Usually the flight attendants would be making the announcement, "Welcome to Branson... local time is.." as they exit the runway. At what point did the flight attendants realize they actually weren't at the correct airport? I imagine no one in the cabin really knew they weren't at the right airport.
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Deltran757
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:17 am

If they are not planning on moving the 737 tonight. I bet It will be a lot of people & media tomorrow or whatever day they are planning to fly the aircraft out. Reminds me when a US Air Force C-17 landed at a small commuter airport in Tampa instead of MacDill AFB that is just a few miles away. Can't wait to see takeoff footage of it.
To see the world... One plane at a time
 
jreuschl
Posts: 413
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:26 am

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8507

I see WN sent in a plane from STL to pick up passengers who were supposed to go to DAL on the misplaced plane.

Wonder if anyone told those pilots "OK you really need to make sure you land at the right airport"
 
wjcandee
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:30 am

Here's the big deal: someone landed on the wrong runway numbers. That's going to be a problem.
 
ouboy79
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:32 am

Quoting Deltran757 (Reply 67):
If they are not planning on moving the 737 tonight. I bet It will be a lot of people & media tomorrow or whatever day they are planning to fly the aircraft out. Reminds me when a US Air Force C-17 landed at a small commuter airport in Tampa instead of MacDill AFB that is just a few miles away. Can't wait to see takeoff footage of it.

Are people really forgetting about the Dreamlifter issue not that long ago? To me that is more impressive.  
 
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ADent
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:39 am

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 56):

They will find a way to get the plane off the runway but it will be interesting to see how they get the plane inside legal limits for takeoff.

Someone is working on all the paperwork. Charts for the airport, performance calculations, etc. If they plane can not legally make it, they will need to apply for a waiver - like they do for ferry permits.

There is no doubt the aircraft is capable of the trip, and I would think a lightly loaded 737 could legally operate from a field of that length (but I am no expert).

I assume some senior pilots will be piloting on this little trip?
 
JBAirwaysFan
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:45 am

First off, the pilot should have checked his heading when on approach. Maybe that would have been the first clue since PLK's runway is 12/30 and BKGs runway is 14/32. I'm sure they were being vectored by ATC to the appropriate runway.

Second, airplanes landing at the wrong airports with very short runways is very disturbing to me. I take it personally as someone who fell victim to a plane crash (albeit not a commercial a/c, but plane crash nonetheless) because the pilot opted to use an airport with a runway too short to handle a fully loaded plane. 2 dead one survived. Very disturbing to see the professionals making mistakes like this too.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
jreuschl
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:47 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottDallasTX/status/422598176210563072/photos

A passenger on the flight took a picture of how close they were to the edge.

I guess the pilot deserves a slight bit of credit for eventually realizing something isn't right.

The passenger said they braked very hard, contradictory to WN's public statement saying the landing was "uneventful"

[Edited 2014-01-12 22:50:09]
 
iowaman
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:52 am

I'm surprised the runway weight limits at PLK are actually as high as they are:

Weight bearing capacity (in thousands):
Single wheel: 70.0
Double wheel: 100.0

Why did Springfield approach or Branson BBG tower not notice anything on final?
Could have been a crew unfamiliar with the airport on a VFR approach but that is just speculation at this point. None the less I'm glad everyone is safe.

[Edited 2014-01-12 22:52:58]

[Edited 2014-01-12 22:54:09]
 
skywaymanaz
Posts: 719
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:05 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 50):
Look at the far end of this runway and imagine what would have happened if they went off the end...

Being familiar with this airport that's exactly what I was thinking too. That's a long way down with a very busy highway, US 65, at the bottom.


Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 70):
Are people really forgetting about the Dreamlifter issue not that long ago? To me that is more impressive.

Complacency will kill you. Runway numbers not matching should have been a big clue something was amiss. BBG landing runway was 14 but they would have seen 12 on the runway in front of them. That should have been spotted and caused a go around to be initiated.
 
Mir
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:07 am

I wonder if WN has a requirement to back up visual approaches with an instrument approach. If not, perhaps they should.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Type-Rated
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:30 am

The Branson airport is pretty distinctive looking. It's on a hilltop that looks like the top has been shaved off. I wonder if either pilot has flown in there before? I think this photo shows the topology of the area best.

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 531 File size: 71kb


[Edited 2014-01-12 23:43:09]
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
kochamLOT
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:37 am

Looks like Southwest has an even MORE direct service to the city of Branson! What a convenience, pretty sure the pax cuda walked home after they got their bags :P

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 10):
 
Wayfarer515
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:26 am

Children of the magenta, got nothing more to say.
 
ouboy79
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 73):
A passenger on the flight took a picture of how close they were to the edge.

I guess the pilot deserves a slight bit of credit for eventually realizing something isn't right.

The passenger said they braked very hard, contradictory to WN's public statement saying the landing was "uneventful"

I've been on a few flights with hard braking and never thought twice about it. The guy on twitter is definitely making the rounds getting publicity. I wonder if he gave everyone his business card being a lawyer?

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 75):
Complacency will kill you. Runway numbers not matching should have been a big clue something was amiss. BBG landing runway was 14 but they would have seen 12 on the runway in front of them. That should have been spotted and caused a go around to be initiated.

Completely agree.
 
mtnwest1979
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:27 am

Supposed to lv PLK around 1100C to DAL.

Maybe the pilots were ex AS and missed going to DUT and felt this fit the bill lol.

And service ends June 6th IIRC.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
BMI727
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 80):
I've been on a few flights with hard braking and never thought twice about it.

Very true. Usually it's just considerate pilots trying to shorten taxi time.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
F9Animal
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:48 am

What do you think will happen to the pilots? I am sure they will get grilled with questions. I hope they are able to keep their jobs. Maybe some additional training? Whaf I think is most important about this is, nobody got hurt.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
dispatchguy
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:58 am

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 79):
Children of the magenta, got nothing more to say.

True dat, especially when you consider that every visual approach is SUPPOSED to be backed up with instruments to insure that you are indeed going where your dispatch release has sent you. I know that all US carriers have similar language in their flight ops manuals - when on a visual approach, back it up with the ILS, GPS/RNAV, something. I see no NOTAMS for any inop ILS at KBBG. You have an ILS in one direction, and a GPS/RNAV approach to the other direction at KBBG.

Chalk one up for crew complacency. I could understand being in a DC9 or a 727 with just a round dial HSI, an RMI, and a VOR or 2, but not an electric airplane with a full GPS/IRS and a full FMS and maybe even a HUD...
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
DAL763ER
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:58 am

I think this is ridiculous. We've had what, 3 incidents in the past couple of months of planes landing at the wrong airport? Sure, there are many airports in the same metro area, but we don't live in 1925 any more. There are so many tools in use that I find it hard to believe that two pilots paying proper attention could make such a mistake.

Do the pilots keep their jobs? As the outcome of that could have turned out a lot worse, I see no reason that they should get to remain on duty.
 
dispatchguy
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:09 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 85):
Do the pilots keep their jobs? As the outcome of that could have turned out a lot worse, I see no reason that they should get to remain on duty.

The pilots probably have filled out their ASAP Report already and will fall on the sword. As long as it wasnt wanton or malicious, and they werent under the influence of drugs or anything like that, theyll keep their jobs.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
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barney captain
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:25 am

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 79):
Children of the magenta, got nothing more to say.

Nice sound bite but you have it backwards -

ironically, following the magenta line will lead you to the correct airport.


And yes, I've seen the video you're attempting to correlate to this incident.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:43 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 27):

In that other thread about safest airlines, this just knocked WN down a notch or two.

Feel bad for the crew up front but glad nobody got hurt.

from 0 passenger fatalities to 0... passenger.... fatalities. Pretty massive jump in the unsafe count from the largest operator of 737 passenger jets in the world.

Between Southwest and AirTran operations they conduct nearly 3,700 flights a day. 365 days a year. So somewhere "nearly" 1.35 MILLION flights a year. To SAFELY land at the wrong airport only once a year means the avg passenger is pretty damn safe.

Only it happens far less than once a year at WN.

So.... yah.

You are more likely to win the jackpot at the lotto and die in the same week than die flying with WN. So better not buy any lotto tickets.
 
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par13del
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:31 am

Ok, so the one thing we do know for sure is that unlike the C-17 landing at the wrong airport in the Tampa area, the heading on this airport runway and their ultimate destination of Branson are not the same.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2037
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 86):
from 0 passenger fatalities to 0... passenger.... fatalities.

You conveniently forgot about the innocent passenger in a car, off the MDW airport grounds, that was killed by one of several WN landing mishaps. In the BUR accident, the plane came to a stop literally feet from active gas pumps.

Just because passengers did not become statistics does not mean the carrier should earn a perfect safety record. The WN trend over the past few years seems to indicate flight crew judgment might be a contributing factor at times. Eventually this philosophy of taxi faster, trying to salvage long landings to save time/money is going to catch up with them.

Once the media starts turning on them, the protective PR bubble WN has enjoyed in the past will fade.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 86):
To SAFELY land at the wrong airport only once a year means the avg passenger is pretty damn safe.

Wow, that's some major spin.
It sounds like thunder but the way this year is going, it could be Godzilla!
 
RDUDDJI
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:23 pm

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 10):

"When it came over our cabin very low sounding with a Flubbing noise like it was flaming out and relighting. Then i get a text from Zane Morris, our flight Instructor telling me to check it out."


Ahhh, a "flubbing" noise. Sounds like a Fetzer valve going bad.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 23):
Here's the flight track:

Someone is still using Windows XP  
Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 84):
The pilots probably have filled out their ASAP Report already and will fall on the sword. As long as it wasnt wanton or malicious, and they werent under the influence of drugs or anything like that, theyll keep their jobs.

This.

To me this seems like GPS Error, although weather could also have an issue.

But couldn't they have just done a missed approach?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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727tiger
Posts: 318
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
Who handles WN at Branson?

Branson Airport-employed staff handle WN and F9 at Branson Airport -- landside and airside.

WN's last day at Branson Airport will be June 7.

The Mrs. and I are flying out of Branson Thursday for a quick trip to Florida and a cruise. Returning next Tuesday -- on the flight that landed at College of the Ozarks last night.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15180
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 88):
Just because passengers did not become statistics does not mean the carrier should earn a perfect safety record.

Agreed.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 88):
The WN trend over the past few years seems to indicate flight crew judgment might be a contributing factor at times.

Flight crew judgment is a factor in most accidents on all carriers. Think about AA at LIT or KIN, CO at DEN, 9E at JEF (thankfully those idiots killed no passengers), OH at LEX, etc.

To be honest, the numbers of incidents/accidents are so low that meaningful comparisons between carriers are likely impossible.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Logos
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 82):
Chalk one up for crew complacency. I could understand being in a DC9 or a 727 with just a round dial HSI, an RMI, and a VOR or 2, but not an electric airplane with a full GPS/IRS and a full FMS and maybe even a HUD..

Exactly. There really is no reasonable excuse for this. Glad everyone's okay but it could easily have been far worse. That is wasn't isn't a cause for saying this was no big deal. I'm flying Southwest on Friday and have no particular fears resulting from this but it's hardly their finest hour.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
eldanno
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:29 pm

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 89):
Ahhh, a "flubbing" noise. Sounds like a Fetzer valve going bad.

I thought that was caused by a lose O-pipe... Learn something new everyday.

But seriously, I thought it was standard practice for all US carriers to backup a visual with instrument or GPS information. Or, at the very least, reference those funny "Rwy Hdg" numbers on the plates.

Just to stir the pot a bit... Any blame to place on ATC?

[Edited 2014-01-13 06:29:21]
 
citationjet
Posts: 2576
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:44 pm

Landing at the wrong airport happens about once a year on the average for commercial airlines worldwide. See link to documented occurances since the 1950s.
http://www.thirdamendment.com/wrongway.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
winstonlegthigh
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:15 pm

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 51):

It started with the LGA accident, then with the MDW debacle and now this. WN is finally getting to have a dose of media madness like the legacys have been dealing with for years.

No kidding, it's a good thing they don't have any 787 in their fleet.
Never has gravity been so uplifting.
 
indywa
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:25 am

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 89):
Ahhh, a "flubbing" noise. Sounds like a Fetzer valve going bad.

Well if they had some gauze pads and ball bearings (it's all ball bearings nowadays)...they could have had it fixed!
 
richierich
Moderator
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WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting spinkid (Reply 15):
Passengers were probably told they could not take off and fly to the correct airport. I'm sure an empty 737 can do it no problem, but the passengers would have to be bused over.
Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 27):
perhaps WN is experimenting with the Amtrak model - take your passengers somewhere, then stick them on a bus for the final leg of the trip.

Ironically, PLK is 6 miles closer to most of Branson's casinos and hotels than BBG is.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 89):
Sounds like a Fetzer valve going bad.

Needed some 3-in-1 oil and gauze pads....
None shall pass!!!!
 
71Zulu
Posts: 1932
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

WN Lands At Wrong Airport (Part 1)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:04 pm

Here is the view of the sectional chart, also notice how they filed to BBG but actually flew straight to PLK, guess they would be landing south so the track makes sense.

http://i44.tinypic.com/64gtvt.jpg

[Edited 2014-01-13 07:06:50]

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