Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:04 pm

Back again, here is the winter 2014 update on industry aircraft valuations and market lease rates.


As before, the below list contains estimated current market value (in USD) based on the oldest to newest airframes, along with sample monthly lease rates based also on oldest to newest airframes for some common models.


A319 – $8.3 - 34.3M, $110-270,000
A320 – $4.0 - 41.0M, $65-320,000
A321 – $9.5 - 48.0M, $90-385,000
A330-200 – $32.0 - 87.0M, $320-850,000
A330-300 - $17.5 - 100.0M, $180-900,000
A340-300 – $7.0 -39.3M, $130-380,000
A380-800 - $145.0 - 210.0M, $1,350-2,000,000
B737-300 – $1.3 – 5.0M, $40-80,000
B737-700 - $12.0 - 34.5M, $140-300,000
B737-800 - $15.0 - 46.0M, $190-360,000
B737-900ER - $30.0 - 48.5M, $260-390,000
B747-400 – $10.0 – 38.0M, $190-460,000
B757-200 – $5.5 – 20.0M, $80-220,000
B767-300ER – $9.5 – 61.5M, $170-460,000
B777-200ER – $38.0 – 115.0M, $400-900,000
B777-300ER – $88.0 – 165.0M, $800-1,550,000
B787-8 - $100.0 - 113.0M, $900-1,000,000
MD-11 - $8.0 – 14.0M , $150-220,000
MD-82 - $0.5 - 1.4M, $25-45,000
CRJ200 – $1.4 - 5.0M, $35-70,000
CRJ700 – $9.0 – 22.5M, $90-200,000
CRJ900 - $11.5 – 25.0M, $120-220,000
Q400 – $9.5 – 21.0M, $90-190,000
ERJ145 – $2.8 – 8.0M, $40-80,000
EMB170 – $14.0 – 27.0M, $145-235,000
EMB190 – $19.3 – 32.5M, $185-280,000
ATR-72 – $6.4 – 20.0M, $80-190,000


The information is derived from actual transactions along with market valuations and is current as of November 2013.

The long time bargain still remains the MD-80 series, which you can lease for the price of a new car.


Sources: IBA/Ascend
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:19 pm

Thanks again LAX for these updates. Any data for a ATR42?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:19 pm

ATR42 - $4.2 - 15.5M, $60-150,000.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
EMB170 – $14.0 – 27.0M, $145-235,000
EMB190 – $19.3 – 32.5M, $185-280,000

This makes it easy to understand why AD is letting go the 170s that came in the TR fleet. It´s not that much difference on the leasing, but a huge difference on the seats count.
Be safe,
Bruno.
 
na
Posts: 9823
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:04 pm

The newest 787 has a market value of only 113 mio $, considerably less than the oldest A380?
Also surprising is that a young 763 (which would be a 2013 model) is only 61,5 mio. No wonder there are still bargainhunters buying new.
The oldest 77E is worth as much as the youngest 744, but the youngest 77E (a 2013 model then) is as cheap as 115 million and just 2 million above an 787 agemate? Hard to believe.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27500
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting na (Reply 4):
The oldest 77E is worth as much as the youngest 744, but the youngest 77E (a 2013 model then) is as cheap as 115 million and just 2 million above an 787 agemate? Hard to believe.

The 747-400 has high operating costs due to fuel consumption and maintenance. It makes money when it's full, but during low season... As such, demand for the type has pretty much cratered.

The 777-200ER is much more fuel efficient and a much lower maintenance cost, so the operating costs are much lower so it's easier to make money operating it year-round and it therefore remains very much in demand.

And while a 787-8 is even more efficient in fuel and maintenance than a 777-200ER, the 777-200ER does seat more folks so it generates more revenue. Comparing total revenues against total operating costs, the two models probably are not significantly far apart and that would support similar valuations.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:46 pm

Comparing 788 to 380 is comparing apples and oranges. Two totally different sized category aircraft with differing economic valuatations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
na
Posts: 9823
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
The 777-200ER is much more fuel efficient and a much lower maintenance cost, so the operating costs are much lower so it's easier to make money operating it year-round and it therefore remains very much in demand.

Well, the time is already there that single 77E frames are being scrapped. Its inferior to the latest A330s versions on most missions and right now being destroyed by the 787. The "classic" 777 versions are rapidly becoming obsolete.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
the 777-200ER does seat more folks so it generates more revenue.

But if you say the 744 can now only compete when its load is high the same is true for the 77E vs. the 787.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Comparing 788 to 380 is comparing apples and oranges. Two totally different sized category aircraft with differing economic valuatations.

Better tell that to ANA and UA and the like 
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Comparing 788 to 380 is comparing apples and oranges. Two totally different sized category aircraft with differing economic valuatations.

Better tell that to ANA and UA and the like 

What is that suppose to mean ?

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Well, the time is already there that single 77E frames are being scrapped. Its inferior to the latest A330s versions on most missions and right now being destroyed by the 787. The "classic" 777 versions are rapidly becoming obsolete.

Don't see to many people arguing with you about this, yet the 77E still commands a lease rate and sale value equal to or exceeding the 333 and the 343 which it competes with. So obviously the market still sees great value and significance in the 77E.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27500
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Well, the time is already there that single 77E frames are being scrapped.

A handful, yes, but even high-cycle frames are finding new homes (SQ's 77Es to Scoot and 773s to TransAero) rather than being recycled for parts.



Quoting na (Reply 7):
The "classic" 777 versions are rapidly becoming obsolete.

But they are still making money for operators so they are still in demand (see above).

Quoting na (Reply 7):
But if you say the 744 can now only compete when its load is high the same is true for the 77E vs. the 787.

The break-even load factor percentage for a 747-400 should be a fair bit higher than that of a 777-200ER. A 777-200ER is also smaller so a negative-profit seat load factor on a 747-400 is a positive-profit seat load factor on a 777-200ER.



Quoting na (Reply 7):
Its inferior to the latest A330s versions on most missions and right now being destroyed by the 787.

Yes, but the 777-200ERs are already paid for and have more seats to generate more revenue. So while they may burn around 15% more fuel, they hold 8-10% more people and you don't have the costs of financing a new $100 million frame.
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Its inferior to the latest A330s versions on most missions and right now being destroyed by the 787.

Yes, but the 777-200ERs are already paid for and have more seats to generate more revenue. So while they may burn around 15% more fuel, they hold 8-10% more people and you don't have the costs of financing a new $100 million frame.

That probably holds true for the 747-451s that Delta flies as most of the are owned and most likely paid for. They have a few that are leased that I have heard they will return to the lessor when the leases are up. Then again, the lessor may sell them to Delta at dirt cheap prices as once they reach the desert that is where the will stay and there are many already there that can be parted out. So their residual price is very low and placement with another operator is unlikely.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
ist2014
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:43 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:25 pm

do we know break-even load factor if each aircraft ( average number, i know it depends on configuration, C,Y mix and route length but i wonder an average)
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:55 pm

What plane would suit G3 better for the international market? I don´t think they would have a hard time getting 250 pax in a 77E to/from MIA/JFK, out of GRU. Also think this market will remain strong for a very long time...
What are your thoughts on this?
Bruno.
 
trex8
Posts: 5649
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:58 pm

Thx LAX
Any specific freighter info?
 
nkmoreland
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:44 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:13 pm

Any data on what WN is leasing FLs 717's to DL for?
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting ist2014 (Reply 11):
do we know break-even load factor if each aircraft ( average number, i know it depends on configuration, C,Y mix and route length but i wonder an average)

No simplistic answer. Very dependent on airlines overhead cost and also very importantly the revenue each ticket generates.

One airline might break even at 70% on a given plane, while another take a loss with 100% LF.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 13):
Any specific freighter info?

Some, but its a slippery slope in freighter valuations due things like differing conversions, weight capability, and wide age groupings.

Quoting nkmoreland (Reply 14):

Any data on what WN is leasing FLs 717's to DL for?

I dont have any special insight. You might find tidbits deep in SEC filings for either company. I suspect rate is below market valuation however due to its size.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5111
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
A319 – $8.3 - 34.3M, $110-270,000
A320 – $4.0 - 41.0M, $65-320,000
A321 – $9.5 - 48.0M, $90-385,000
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B737-700 - $12.0 - 34.5M, $140-300,000
B737-800 - $15.0 - 46.0M, $190-360,000
B737-900ER - $30.0 - 48.5M, $260-390,000

Interesting to see new Boeing narrowbodies slightly pricier than Airbus models.

Is there supply/demand issue which provide strength to the Boeing family price rates?


Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
A340-300 – $7.0 -39.3M, $130-380,000
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
ATR-72 – $6.4 – 20.0M, $80-190,000

I guess Air Tahiti might be paying more on its new ATR than Air Tahiti Nui does on its older A340.   
mercure f-wtcc
 
Azure
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Interesting information.

You may want to compare with the new 2014 list price from Airbus : http://airinfo.org/2014/01/14/combien-coute-un-airbus/
The article is in French but the figures are easy to understand  .



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B787-8 - $100.0 - 113.0M

AI wants to get rid of 8 B788 IIRC. Given the long backlog, could it be a good deal for a prospective buyer ?



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The long time bargain still remains the MD-80 series, which you can lease for the price of a new car.

And it would me much more classy than a car, wouldn't it ? Although I'd have to make room in my garage, I'm afraid  
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):

Interesting to see new Boeing narrowbodies slightly pricier than Airbus models.

Is there supply/demand issue which provide strength to the Boeing family price rates?

Yes, you are partly right in that there are more A320 family aircraft built than 737NG (5800 vs 4700). Also, it is also worth considering that the average age of the A320 family fleet worldwide is higher which can be seen in the greater range of lease values for the A320. Lastly, many of the oldest A320 aircraft are still flying with first generation CFM56 (A series engines) and V2500 (A1 engines) which significantly depresses the values further.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27500
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting Azure (Reply 17):
AI wants to get rid of 8 B788 IIRC.

AI is in fact seeking bridge financing to take delivery of 8 787-8s they have on order.  
 
Azure
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):

OK, thanks for the clarification !
 
JA
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:58 pm

Are the ERJ-135 and ERJ-140 on the list. I suspect their values are quickly dropping away from the ERJ-145.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:02 pm

ERJ135 – $1.7 – 4.6M, $30-50,000
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mffoda
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:09 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 18):

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):

Interesting to see new Boeing narrowbodies slightly pricier than Airbus models.

Is there supply/demand issue which provide strength to the Boeing family price rates?

Yes, you are partly right in that there are more A320 family aircraft built than 737NG (5800 vs 4700). Also, it is also worth considering that the average age of the A320 family fleet worldwide is higher which can be seen in the greater range of lease values for the A320. Lastly, many of the oldest A320 aircraft are still flying with first generation CFM56 (A series engines) and V2500 (A1 engines) which significantly depresses the values further.

That has nothing to do with it. Airbus NB's have never had higher lease rates than their Boeing counterparts. Engines are one the considerations... But i would not look at CFM as the reason for lower lease rates.
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5111
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
AI is in fact seeking bridge financing to take delivery of 8 787-8s they have on order.

Actually according to this they already had bridge financing for first 12 frames.

Now they want to sell aircraft, pay off the bridge and lease them back.

Air India Seeks To Sell / Lease-back 7 787s (by LAXintl Dec 24 2013 in Civil Aviation)
mercure f-wtcc
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 23):

That has nothing to do with it. Airbus NB's have never had higher lease rates than their Boeing counterparts. Engines are one the considerations... But i would not look at CFM as the reason for lower lease rates.

Lower specs on older A320s are a big part of it. If you'd followed the leasing industry, you would be aware of this:

"About 20% of the fleet is over 20 years of age. Those are deeply inefficient aircraft."

Kelly explains there is "always a price" where a fuel-efficient aircraft can get placed at the expense of a fuel-inefficient unit.

"So, that's why, if you have a portfolio that's focused on modern technology, fuel-efficient aircraft, there'll always be a price that you'll move these airplanes at."


Airbus A320 family lease rates firming: AerCap

A320s delivered today are sometimes mistakenly believed to be similar to those produced 20 (or more) years ago. Consequently, lessees had been unwilling to pay a premium to lease a younger aircraft, believing it was similar to one built a decade before.

It is now widely recognised that A320s produced in the last 10 years are very different from those built in the 1980s and 1990s. The specifications of younger A320s (the systems, engines, structure and avionics) have been improved, giving greater reliability and less maintenance. Also, older aircraft can be five per cent less fuel-efficient just because of wear and tear and additional drag caused by minor repairs.


http://www.afm.aero/magazine/trading...nance/item/748-lease-rental-trends

Depending on who you ask from the industry they blame the over population of leasing companies, a historic over supply of aircraft or the access to tier-2 carriers to finance for brand new aircraft, provoking a lack of demand of old aircraft.

http://network.airfinancejournal.com...ost/The-A320-value-quest/7010/True

The following assessment is from 2010 but the points they made are still relevant today (page 5 is noteworthy):

http://www.aviationtoday.com/Assets/avn0329.pdf

As to for a good overview of the 737 vs A320 lease rates, see here:

http://airinsight.com/2012/09/19/a320-and-737-values-at-risk/
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:45 pm

The A32x versus 737NG valuation discussion is interesting, and has indeed produced slightly higher pricing on the Boeing family as has been shown in similar post I have made over the last 3-4 years .

I do agree with the notion that to some degree there is a (wrongful) view in the industry that today's A320 is about the same as the airplane delivered 25-year ago which might psychologically handicap the model a bit.

Another thing which I saw last year while working with a client comparing the two families was the push by lessors to justify higher pricing on Boeing aircraft due to its larger capacity. In most evaluated configurations one could seat one more row on the 737 which certainly helps with the revenue generation capability and in the lessors view made the Boeing products case stronger which could drive the valuation premium.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14374
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:48 pm

Also the 738 is bigger than the A320.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5111
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:18 am

Thanks for discussion explanations on 32x vs 737 series.
Interesting how behind the scenes financial picture can be different on models which are publicly pitted against each other as being almost interchangable in competitions among airlines.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:40 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 24):
Actually according to this they already had bridge financing for first 12 frames.

The 12th frame is to be delivered any day now. They have an RFP out for bridge financing for the next two, due in February and March. They will need to get more bridge financing (or a prearranged sale/leaseback arrangement) by late in the second quarter as a couple more frames will be built then.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21586
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:47 am

These are some of my favorite threads. Thanks LAXintl!

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
A330-200 – $32.0 - 87.0M, $320-850,000
A330-300 - $17.5 - 100.0M, $180-900,000

It looks like the little bus is losing favor steadily as the A333 gains range...

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B787-8 - $100.0 - 113.0M, $900-1,000,000

I'm surprised by the narrowness of the spread. I would have though early examples would be worth $15M less...

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B767-300ER – $9.5 – 61.5M, $170-460,000

I'm surprised the top end is still that high with 787 delivery improvements...

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):
Is there supply/demand issue which provide strength to the Boeing family price rates?

Winglets and the latest CFM-56-7 PIP that airbus is trying to get moved over to the -5. The reality is the 738 has more range and a little more payload than the A320 and that helps the whole line's resale value... (e.g., Hawaii, more payload TCON). Notice the A321 and 739 have very similar peak resale/lease values? I speculate the difference there is engine discounting...

There are also too many A319s looking for homes. Not aggressively, but since WN will buy 73Gs 'opportunistically,' it helps the bottom of the lines resale too.

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 25):
Kelly explains there is "always a price" where a fuel-efficient aircraft can get placed at the expense of a fuel-inefficient unit.

"So, that's why, if you have a portfolio that's focused on modern technology, fuel-efficient aircraft, there'll always be a price that you'll move these airplanes at."

   Hence why I only look at the latest prices. Since there are older and less efficient A320s, they will have a tougher time finding homes. High oil prices make efficiency pay off sooner...


Lightsaber
4 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21586
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:59 am

I really enjoy these threads.

I'm surprised at the low spread on 788s as I would have thought older examples would sell for less than the quoted (overweight, less range) by about $15M.

I also am amused how A332 rates drop below A333 rates

Note: I posted before, but it is gone. Chrome bug?

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):
I guess Air Tahiti might be paying more on its new ATR than Air Tahiti Nui does on its older A340.

   But no. They were later buyers of the A343.  


Lightsaber
4 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5111
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
It looks like the little bus is losing favor steadily as the A333 gains range...

Friends at Airbus tell me they now pitch the A333 are the preferred model as it now really has the range capability most customers need with added revenue potential. Todays A333 is nothing like the early models that folks like Air Inter had.

Its interesting to see Airbus itself make obsolete its own models. This is same marketing technique where Airbus pushed the A332 versus A340 to customers by late 1990s. Used to be if range was under 8 hours they suggest A330, if more A340 those days.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27500
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
I'm surprised at the low spread on 788s as I would have thought older examples would sell for less than the quoted (overweight, less range) by about $15M.

Boeing is taking a bath on those frames, so I could see them trying to command a similar premium via delivery availability compared to new. And an overweight 787 is still a mighty efficient airframe.



Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
I'm surprised the top end (of the 767-300ER valuation) is still that high with 787 delivery improvements...

I would not be surprised if the steady stream of deliveries the past few years to 787 customers as interim lift compensation has given a bit of a "dead cat bounce" to valuations.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25197
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
It looks like the little bus is losing favor steadily as the A333 gains range...

Yes the A333 has turned out to be quite a capable bird as higher weight versions came to the market

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
I would not be surprised if the steady stream of deliveries the past few years to 787 customers as interim lift compensation has given a bit of a "dead cat bounce" to valuations.

The 763 has indeed gotten a bounce and new lease on life as the 787 slipped and carriers like LAN, ANA and JAL picked up new frames. Plus growing demand for the new build 763F and conversions has helped underpin valuations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:50 pm

Any numbers for the Sukhoi SuperJet?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
mffoda
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:09 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:10 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 35):
Any numbers for the Sukhoi SuperJet?

Yeah... about 30 delivered. you may have to wait a while for real lease estimates.  
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21586
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Winter 2014

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:57 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
And an overweight 787 is still a mighty efficient airframe.

Agreed. But a later example is a much more efficient plane that IMHO is worth more than the listed spread...

Quoting mffoda (Reply 36):

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 35):
Any numbers for the Sukhoi SuperJet?

Yeah... about 30 delivered. you may have to wait a while for real lease estimates.

The SU100 will have to prove itself to establish the resale market. It is a tough thing for a new airframe to do that isn't a 737 or A320.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
The 763 has indeed gotten a bounce and new lease on life as the 787 slipped and carriers like LAN, ANA and JAL picked up new frames. Plus growing demand for the new build 763F and conversions has helped underpin valuations.

I'm amazed how well the 763ER has done. Between good and lucky, sometimes its better to be lucky. (Well... err...)


Lightsaber
4 months without TV. The best decision of my life.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos