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justloveplanes
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:47 pm

United was having a horrible time with it's fleet early on, but when I flew on one of their 787's, the crew told me they were working out the bugs and getting it right. From a crew point of view, they really liked it and they mentioned they noticed the increased humidity and pressure if the passengers didn't.

Any new reliability data for United?
 
PHX787
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 100):
Any new reliability data for United?

In terms of incidents, there haven't been any recently. This is according to AvHerald
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KarelXWB
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:33 pm

Boeing is likely to submit a time-bound action plan to fix the perennial technical problems being faced by the 787s in Air India's fleet to aviation regulator DGCA next week.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/dr...it-action-plan-to-air-india-490098

Since its induction two years ago till last month, Air India's 787s have experienced 44 major engineering snags. Parliament was also informed few weeks ago that a total of 136 "minor" technical problems had occurred in the fleet since its delivery began in September 2012.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
speedbird128
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am

Quoting enviableOne (Reply 95):
just regular checks picking up a potential failure

What "regular checks" are you familiar with that will show up in advance a complete loss of transponders...??
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7BOEING7
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:51 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102):
Boeing is likely to submit a time-bound action plan to fix the perennial technical problems being faced by the 787s in Air India's fleet to aviation regulator DGCA next week.

"The faults included nine counts of equipment failures, seven flight control issues, six cases of landing gear trouble, four of problems with navigational aids and three windshield cracks."

I'm guessing the flight controls are spoiler related, the landing gear are brakes and the navigation aids are transponders, all of which I expect will be cured when the new software is certified. ANA and JAL are having similar brake and spoiler issues, nobody else is talking anymore. The equipment failures and windshields are either the black boxes or wiring -- if its the same airplane it's the wiring.
 
speedbird128
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:58 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 104):
navigation aids are transponders

Well, they also had all the FMC's freeze up/crash/whatever at one point...
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JetBuddy
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:15 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 91):
There is something wrong at some of the 787 operators with their capability to operate an aircraft. Why can some carriers operate the aircraft with no untoward issues and others are forever complaining about this or that issue . They are the same airplane, same systems, same whatever part you want to name yet they work virtually perfectly for one carrier and allegedly not for another. I don't believe it is good luck rather I am virtually sure that it is superior management.

I'm not totally dismissing your point, but every single aircraft is different. Modern airliners are built with tens of thousands of parts, and large parts of the aircraft is built by hand. No aircraft are in fact similar, even if they're similar on paper. They even fly differently. The difference between each frame only gets bigger and bigger with age of course, due to maintenance and fixes and wear and tear. So it's not impossible some frames are more prone to mechanical trouble than others.

[Edited 2014-03-05 17:17:07]
 
Mike89406
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:21 am

http://www.npr.org/2014/02/25/282431...hake-major-malfunction-issues?ft=1

And yet more media sensationalization from NPR this time.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 106):
I'm not totally dismissing your point, but every single aircraft is different. Modern airliners are built with tens of thousands of parts, and large parts of the aircraft is built by hand. No aircraft are in fact similar, even if they're similar on paper. They even fly differently. The difference between each frame only gets bigger and bigger with age of course, due to maintenance and fixes and wear and tear. So it's not impossible some frames are more prone to mechanical trouble than others.

One of the first scientific principles I learned was that the entire concept of an inanimate object is pure fiction.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
speedbird128
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:16 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 106):
So it's not impossible some frames are more prone to mechanical trouble than others.

Hence hangar queens exist... Its a fact of life that if a human constructs something so complex (by a variety of personnel at two different locations), no two copies will be exact...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
flood
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 100):
Any new reliability data for United?

I think they still have quite a ways to go. We're five days into March and apparently...

Wed: UA94 ship 904 had a 45min MX delay. UA35 ship 901 had a MX delay with aircraft change to ship 909, which then departed 3hr late.
Tue: UA198 operated by ship 906 had a 1hr MX delay. UA32 sched ship 908 was swapped to 906 with subsequent delay.
Mon: UA1257 ship 904 MX delay 30min.
Sun: UA94 ship 905 MX delay 1hr.
Sat: UA138 ship 902 returned to gate with MX delay of 1hr45. UA35 ship 904 had a 4hr MX delay.

No idea what the issues were.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 108):
One of the first scientific principles I learned was that the entire concept of an inanimate object is pure fiction.

Hehe.. exactly ^^

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 109):
Hence hangar queens exist... Its a fact of life that if a human constructs something so complex (by a variety of personnel at two different locations), no two copies will be exact...

Yes indeed. And all those parts it's built from comes from all around the globe. The more complex the part is, the more unique it is.... even if it's supposed to be 100% exactly the same as the next one.

And the early frames of each type are of course more prone to having mechanical issues than the frames later in the production line. It's the same thing with cars. If you want a reliable car, choose a late model from that type's production span.
 
speedbird128
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 111):

Yup, and "uniqueness" surely came out of the "rework" needed LOL. I doubt that any 2 are the same...
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KarelXWB
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:28 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
argonaught
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
JAL in-flight engine was shutdown due to a leak

I wonder if they have found a physical leak, or was it a misfiring sensor? I am reading through the Internet chatter now and seeing the words "hydraulic" and "lubricant" popping up alternately.

Also in the article there is a link to this liner's previous incident, when its APU battery caught fire. Is there something wrong with this particular aircraft? Like, it was assembled during the Union walk-out month .. jk  
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting argonaught (Reply 114):
I wonder if they have found a physical leak, or was it a misfiring sensor? I am reading through the Internet chatter now and seeing the words "hydraulic" and "lubricant" popping up alternately.

It's the usual uneducated news media. If it was a hydraulic issue they wouldn't have diverted and descended because you have plenty of backup hydraulic systems. In this case, low oil pressure, they shut the engine down, diverted to HNL, and descended to FL250 (single engine cruise altitude for their weight).
 
NAV20
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:04 am

Quoting argonaught (Reply 57):
In the worst case the 787 and 350 could end up turning into self-imposed white elephants a-la the 380.

Got hacked, and I've been off the air for a while. Hopefully I'm in the clear now.

Must admit, though, that I see the situation the other way round. Until recently the rule was, "four engines for long-haul." We now find that, given fast-increasing engine power, plus relaxed ETOPS rules, more and more routes that used to require fours can now legally be flown by twins.

What's more, said twins, again given the advantage of ever-more-powerful engines, are already able to carry more than 400 passengers - rivalling the B747, and possibly even the A380?

Can't help feeling that, within a few years, we may all be facing a situation in which 'two engines are enough'?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
LO231
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:07 am

LO is doing good so far, even charters to Mexico

I flew on LO 787 twice, trust me its a good machine, any doubters should look at 737s that carashed or 320s, dont get me mad

[Edited 2014-03-11 02:14:05 by SA7700]
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:48 pm

Quoting LO231 (Reply 117):
trust me its a good machine,

The lack of vibrato/rumble in the wind noise over the fuselage. Just a steady shush in the cabin. A great step forward !
 
tortugamon
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:42 pm

Finally a little bit of good news:

"Nandan said that overall the airline is happy with the aircraft’s fuel efficiency. Air India 787’s dispatch reliability has averaged 98.6%, which is just a notch below its 777 fleet."

also the following:

"Air India, which has had a spate of incidents on its Boeing 787 fleet in the past year-and-a-half, is satisfied with the overall quality of service from the aircraft, according to chairman and managing director Rohit Nandan.

Speaking at Indian Aviation 2014, Nandan added that none of the issues have been safety issues."

http://atwonline.com/airframes/air-i...+AtwDailyNews+%28ATW+Daily+News%29

99% is right around the corner once the software gets introduced I suspect.

tortugamon
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 119):
Speaking at Indian Aviation 2014, Nandan added that none of the issues have been safety issues."

Video of the same and other topics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7zH2Ry6NE
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LondonCity
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:50 am

Spoiler issues with the B787 seem to be a recurring fault. Yesterday saw an Air India B787 grounded in Paris CDG with this problem. 236 passengers were stranded, reports Indian media.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-in-paris/articleshow/32139023.cms
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:02 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 121):
Spoiler issues with the B787 seem to be a recurring fault.

I'm guessing spoiler and brakes are the top two issues which will be corrected with the new software.
 
tortugamon
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:30 pm

Aviation Week has a blog post about 787 reliability:

Quote:
In the first chart, Boeing-provided entry-into-service (EIS) data history shows that the 787 had "schedule reliability" figures of about 96% during its first 15 months in service (or up until FAA kicked off a worldwide grounding of the fleet last year). Those figures are comparable to the 777, ahead of the 767, and well ahead of the 747-400.

The solid performance extended to so-called EE-1 or ETOPS in-service event frequency through the 15-month in-service mark. In fact, if the bar chart is accurate (the report doesn't provide the data behind either chart), the 787's first 15 months beat the 777's every single month, even though there were 49 787s in service at the 15-month mark, compared to 37 777s.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.as...ebae87-776e-4b09-a097-6b5185b57a3b


It certainly does not tell the whole story but it does provide perspective.

tortugamon

[Edited 2014-03-20 09:33:19]
 
travelavnut
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:39 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 123):
It certainly does not tell the whole story but it does provide perspective.

It certainly does, I must say I am surprised..... My impression was that the 787 must have been the worst recent EIS of Boeing, but the first graph seems to paint another picture;

"Still, for anyone who believes the 787 had a particularly rough entry into service, these figures suggest otherwise--at least up until the grounding and subsequent fleet-wide battery mods."

So can we trust these numbers? And how would the grounding and mods affect these graphs?

Also, what was up with the 744?! I was very young at the time so I don't remember, but what was the reason for the EIS problems?
Live From Amsterdam!
 
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bikerthai
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RE: How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 3)

Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 123):


It certainly does not tell the whole story but it does provide perspective.

Considering the first large batch of 777 went to UAL? Would it be a fair comparison?   

bt
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