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flyiguy
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DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:38 am

Please delete if double posted...

A flight attendant working Chautauqua as Delta connection from LEX to DTW blew a .258 prior to working her scheduled flight.

Here's the link
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2014/01...arged-with-being-drunk-on-the-job/

FLY

[Edited 2014-01-19 23:41:49]
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:21 am

They said the flight was operating late in the afternoon, so she must've either:

A. Started drinking on the flight into LEX, or
B. Had a LOT to drink during the turnaround in LEX.

Or is there a scheduled crew change for the turnaround and she had had the whole day to drink? Either way, definitely not a good situation. Thankfully it was noticed and dealt with before this woman got put into a situation in which she was unable to ensure safety where needed.
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zeke
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:18 am

Quoting flyiguy (Thread starter):
blew a .258

I wonder if that is a typo, that level has to be very unhealthy for anyone.
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trent900
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:37 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
I wonder if that is a typo, that level has to be very unhealthy for anyone.

Well, the first thing that came to mind when I read the title was that .258 was a gun size, being as though it happened in the States.
  

.25 does seem high, must have been fairly merry I should think! Do cases like this usually take 4 years to come to trial?

D.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:11 am

.258 is *WAY* high.

If I was blowing .258 I wouldn't really be blowing. I'd be unconscious in an emergency room, probably with a nasal trumpet shoved in my nose to keep my airway open.

The only way to be functioning at all with a BAC that high is to be a very seasoned alcoholic with an enormous tolerance. My guess is that she would go into delerium tremens (life-threatening withdrawal) if her BAC got down to the legal .004 limit.
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srbmod
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:16 am

Quoting trent900 (Reply 3):
.25 does seem high, must have been fairly merry I should think! Do cases like this usually take 4 years to come to trial?

This was a recent incident; the one four years ago was a DUI in another state. To blow a .258 means a pretty significant number of drinks in a short amount of time and the law for air crew is .04 which depending on the size of the person and the gender is 1-2 drinks (then again they aren't supposed to be drinking within 8 hours of a flight anyway).

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
I wonder if that is a typo, that level has to be very unhealthy for anyone.

At those levels, passing out is quite possible and one's motor skills are severely impacted (she would have had a lot of trouble getting around).
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:54 am

Probably not a type at all. I have personally had DUI cases where the suspect blew a .276 and my highest field screening test I've done was a .337... Seasoned alcoholics will generally appear sober while still having quite high BAC.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
The only way to be functioning at all with a BAC that high is to be a very seasoned alcoholic with an enormous tolerance. My guess is that she would go into delerium tremens (life-threatening withdrawal) if her BAC got down to the legal .004 limit.

This.
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PEK777
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:59 pm

Going for the High Score!
 
71Zulu
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
.258 is *WAY* high.

If I was blowing .258 I wouldn't really be blowing. I'd be unconscious in an emergency room, probably with a nasal trumpet shoved in my nose to keep my airway open.

The only way to be functioning at all with a BAC that high is to be a very seasoned alcoholic with an enormous tolerance. My guess is that she would go into delerium tremens (life-threatening withdrawal) if her BAC got down to the legal .004 limit.

Agreed, this is a serious alcoholic and probably has done this many times before.

We had a teacher around MSY just the other day that was sent home from school for suspicion of being drunk and on her way home she was involved in an automobile accident. Police arrived and gave her a breathalyzer and she blew a .285!
 
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A333MSPtoAMS
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting trent900 (Reply 3):
Well, the first thing that came to mind when I read the title was that .258 was a gun size, being as though it happened in the States.

I thought the same thing. I don't like the wording. Blowing, to me, also conjures up images of guns.
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Rdh3e
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:21 pm

That BAC number is probably sensationalist. If you take a breathalyzer within a half hour of drinking, the alcohol still present in your mouth distorts the numbers.

From a breathalyzer website:

Why must I wait 15 to 20 minutes after consuming food or alcohol to ensure testing results are accurate?

A breathalyzer is able to calculate this percentage using only a breath sample because of the precise relationship between alcohol in the blood and alcohol metabolized into the lungs from the bloodstream. As such, it is important to make sure the mouth is clear of contaminant (including alcohol) so that the breath sample contains pure lung air, or as close as possible.

http://www.breathalyzer.net/faq.html
 
georgiaame
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
My guess is that she would go into delerium tremens (life-threatening withdrawal) if her BAC got down to the legal .004 limit.

Total agreement on that one. Those numbers are staggering. Personally, I think they are incomparable with life! One glass of wine, and I know that I can't safely operate a car, even though that one glass is completely insufficient to put me over the legal limit. The FAA has some great programs for alcoholic pilots - their skills and training don't necessarily mean they have to be written off, IF they get clean. Flight attendants, I doubt it, but this person has no business doing anything in the public sector that involves safety. I truly wish her luck, she will need it.
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philvardon
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:22 pm

I'm a doctor and can assure you that blood alcohol levels that high are not unusual in seasoned alcoholics. I know of one case in which the person was drinking 750mls vodka and 9 litres of cider a day. That's an impressive 92 UK alcohol units every single day. The person was still able to function and hold a conversation.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 8):

I hope everybody was alright in the accident, but shouldn't whoever sent her home be held partially responsible for letting her drive drunk?
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SuseJ772
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting trent900 (Reply 3):
Well, the first thing that came to mind when I read the title was that .258 was a gun size, being as though it happened in the States.

That was my second thought. My first thought was what captain's nickname is 258    - needless to say the wording is quite confusing.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 13):
I hope everybody was alright in the accident, but shouldn't whoever sent her home be held partially responsible for letting her drive drunk?

I thought the same thing.
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ABQopsHP
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 pm

There is such a thing as a "functioning alcoholic" , and this may be a case of one. I was once a heavy drinker myself
and managed to make it through a shift w/o being sent home or losing my job, though I had been drinking hard the night before. I do have some empathy for her and others who do not or cannot handle daily life stress's so they turn to booze or other things. No doubt she will loose her job, so this will be a life lesson for her. I can only wish her a healthy recovery.

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kann123air
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:36 pm

Although this one is not nearly as severe...what is it with DL connection and LEX...  
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JAGflyer
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting philvardon (Reply 12):

9 LITERS OF CIDER?! That person surely must have had a tremendous hangover if they consumed that much sugar/alcohol on a daily basis. Cider hits me hard due to all the sugar content.

[Edited 2014-01-20 12:00:43]
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trent900
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
This was a recent incident; the one four years ago was a DUI in another state.

Thanks for the clarification. It was probably me not reading the article properly.

D.
 
philvardon
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:43 pm

Yes, 9 litres of cider plus 750mls vodka. I personally can't imagine drinking that much fluid in a day, let alone alcoholic drink. However, that's what he was managing and was still upright, walking and able to have a coherent conversation. Needless to say that his blood-work made for some interesting reading when it came back....
So it's more than possible that the FA in this case had that much alcohol in her system. The problem is that she won't be able to just stop straight away - she needs medical help to get the alcohol under control and to wean off it safely.
 
mingocr83
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Well, remember that the body adjusts itself to the surrounding environment, this includes drinking alcohol in high quantities...
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l1011buff
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:33 am

Yes, .258 is high, and most college kids would be nearly unconscious, but after working in an ER for over a decade, that's nothing, and trust me, most of us middle agers here have benn .258 and fairly functional. I've seen .440 walking and talking, straight and clearly, the highest I saw was .66 and he was not intubated on a breathing machine, sleeping soundly but not "tubed"!
 
JAAlbert
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:38 am

I do hope this flight attendant can move on from this incident and have a healthy and happy life.

Quoting philvardon (Reply 19):
Yes, 9 litres of cider plus 750mls vodka. I personally can't imagine drinking that much fluid in a day, let alone alcoholic drink. However, that's what he was managing and was still upright, walking and able to have a coherent conversation. Needless to say that his blood-work made for some interesting reading when it came back....

He must have had the world's largest liver! I can't imagine he'll live all that long, poor guy.

Quoting l1011buff (Reply 21):
after working in an ER for over a decade, that's nothing, and trust me, most of us middle agers here have benn .258 and fairly functional.

The lawyer in the office next to mine handles the occasional DUI (and murder defense too - interesting crowd that come through the building) and .258 doesn't sound that outlandish for a seasoned drinker.
 
chrisair
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:38 am

A college student at the University of Iowa blew a 0.341 after being arrested last fall. She earned quite the twitter following and the appropriate nickname: Vodka Sam. She was pretty good looking too!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:06 am

Quoting l1011buff (Reply 21):

Yes, .258 is high, and most college kids would be nearly unconscious, but after working in an ER for over a decade, that's nothing, and trust me, most of us middle agers here have benn .258 and fairly functional. I've seen .440 walking and talking, straight and clearly, the highest I saw was .66 and he was not intubated on a breathing machine, sleeping soundly but not "tubed"!

The highest I ever saw was a 17yo girl with .360 (we played a game of "guess the BAC" and the winner got bragging rights...I was the reigning champion in our residency program). She got the nasal trumpet.

Then, about an hour later, she got combative. We had to give her some lorazepam, which made us nervous but she was going to hurt herself fighting the restraints. She didn't have to be intubated.

The scary part about that case happened after she was awake and talking. We mentioned to her that when she had come in, she was wearing pants but no underwear. She swore she'd put on underwear that evening. There were no signs that she'd been assaulted, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. We went ahead and did the rape kit, emergency contraception, and STD prophylaxis. I never did find out if anything came of it.

For me personally, as a big strong 36yo who rarely drinks, I'm pretty sure I'd be a hot mess by .1. I doubt I would be conscious past 0.15 and by 0.18 I'd need some assistance breathing.

[Edited 2014-01-20 22:08:09]
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ssteve
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:54 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):

For me personally, as a big strong 36yo who rarely drinks, I'm pretty sure I'd be a hot mess by .1. I doubt I would be conscious past 0.15 and by 0.18 I'd need some assistance breathing.

I find it hard to believe that any otherwise healthy person would need breathing assistance at .18. It's got to be almost unremarkable to be that drunk-- about 2x the legal limit-- at colleges, just not as common that people that drunk jump behind the wheel.
 
1400mph
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:09 am

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 11):
The FAA has some great programs for alcoholic pilots - their skills and training don't necessarily mean they have to be written off, IF they get clean. Flight attendants, I doubt it, but this person has no business doing anything in the public sector that involves safety

Neither should lose their job in the first instance if help is sought.

There will be a small percentage of people in any profession with addiction issues.

If it's 'in' you and you happen to be in a career that involves lengthy stays in hotels around the world enjoying what is usually a convivial atmosphere.......

Is it acceptable to have a drink at 7AM in a hotel room with colleagues/alone because you've been up all night working on a flight......

and then......."what time shall we meet in the bar tonight ?"

Do that for years and does a 'grey area' start to emerge where booze is concerned........

or..."oh it's 6 o'clock somewhere in the world"

Doctors and nurses are another example of where drink problems are rife.....shift work , up all night etc etc
 
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DocLightning
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:45 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 25):
I find it hard to believe that any otherwise healthy person would need breathing assistance at .18. It's got to be almost unremarkable to be that drunk-- about 2x the legal limit-- at colleges, just not as common that people that drunk jump behind the wheel.

Because, my friend, I'm a cheap-ass date. ONE beer and I'm already having trouble with gravity. Two and I'm literally starting to stumble. I am probably out at the end of the bell curve for low tolerance.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 26):
Doctors and nurses are another example of where drink problems are rife.....shift work , up all night etc etc

By FAR, the heaviest drinkers are the former Air Force physicians I've worked with. Not Navy or Army, but Air Force. Surgeons are notorious for it, too. Oddly, most of the ED docs I know (also shift-work with potential for high intensity) are pretty low-key.

With nurses, I've found it's tobacco and pills. The Nurse Jackie stereotype didn't come out of the clear blue sky.
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Coal
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:57 am

Quoting flyiguy (Thread starter):
DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

I hadn't noticed the decimal in the title! I thought perhaps the FA had a second job!  Wow!

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blueflyer
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:51 am

I have learned the hard way that behind functioning alcoholics may reside a tragedy. I have no love lost for the idiot who is a teetotaler 6 days of the week, drinks 5 beers in a row the 7th and thinks he is perfectly fine, but I will not judge the functioning alcoholic who needs half a bottle of whisky to function normally through the day before finding out what got them where they are.

One of my former colleagues, an outstanding individual professionally and personally, was a functioning alcoholic unbeknownst to us. He worked for us just a few weeks before he was arrested for a DUI and his father came to collect his things. From his father we learned that he had been diagnosed a little less than a year before with a terminal cancer, divorced his wife on paper because neither he nor she had good health insurance and he didn't want to bankrupt her and their daughter with his medical care, started drinking when the divorce became real because she couldn't handle the stress and the toll, and lost his job because the employer with the lousy health insurance had a great no-alcohol policy and caught him in a random test. The drinking went on to a point it became both normal and necessary to function on a daily basis.

The most frustrating part is, he was caught because he failed to make a complete stop at a crossroad, the day after his doctor had told him his cancer was in remission and he wasn't terminal after all!

At his trial, the arresting officer was very fair and testified that he was only guilty of a rolling stop violation, something most of us do while sober, and that there was no reason to suspect he was driving under the influence until the officer spotted an open container. The judge sentenced him to time (I think 60 days) to be served in a facility equipped to handle severe alcohol addiction.
 
bond007
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:49 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 28):
I hadn't noticed the decimal in the title! I thought perhaps the FA had a second job!  

Now that's funny  

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KaiGywer
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 10):
That BAC number is probably sensationalist. If you take a breathalyzer within a half hour of drinking, the alcohol still present in your mouth distorts the numbers.

After 20 minutes, any residual alcohol in your mouth will have dissipated.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
(we played a game of "guess the BAC" and the winner got bragging rights...I was the reigning champion in our residency program).

  
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
tyler81190
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:58 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 28):
I hadn't noticed the decimal in the title! I thought perhaps the FA had a second job!  

I just fell out of my chair at that one!! hahaha   
 
JAAlbert
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 25):
I find it hard to believe that any otherwise healthy person would need breathing assistance at .18. It's got to be almost unremarkable to be that drunk-- about 2x the legal limit-- at colleges, just not as common that people that drunk jump behind the wheel.

You can add me to the list of unconscious after about two drinks. Okay maybe three. It's just embarrassing. I start slurring my words after one cocktail.
 
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falstaff
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:38 pm

.258 isn't that much. I have played around with BAC machines before and blown a .225 (or there abouts) a few times. I am sure I have topped that on many occasions, but never at work. I can pound beers and get pretty torn up, but it takes a while.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
Because, my friend, I'm a cheap-ass date.

too bad you aren't a single woman between the ages of 30 and 45!
 
Quoting Coal (Reply 28):
I hadn't noticed the decimal in the title! I thought perhaps the FA had a second job!

I wonder what that record is?   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
With nurses, I've found it's tobacco and pills

I used to work near a hospital and I used to see hospital staff smoking outside all the time. Now you can't smoke any where on hospital property. I wonder where the smokers go. I know at my work the smoking staff will sometimes take a drive around the block to smoke on their break.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 26):
Neither should lose their job in the first instance if help is sought.

I agree. You should try to help the person first. It costs a lot of money to hire and train a person. If there is a second time, then they should be out the door. That happened at my job once. We had a teacher who was a drunk, he was caught when he passed out on the floor. Some students thought he had a heart attack or something and called 911. Turns out he was hammered. We gave him help. He showed up to work drunk again and we fired him.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
newhaven
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Thread starter):
A flight attendant working Chautauqua as Delta connection from LEX to DTW blew a .258

ATTAGIRL !
 
Rdh3e
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RE: DL Connection FA Blows .258 Prior To Flight!

Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 31):
After 20 minutes, any residual alcohol in your mouth will have dissipated.

That's my point, if she had been drinking within a short while of the flight she could have blown higher than her actual BAC.

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