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stuckontarmac
Topic Author
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Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:42 pm

Greetings, Noticed a Delta 753 at SAT today with winglets, I heard that with the Pratt engines that the Winglet was not going to be installed on the Delta fleet. Is this the first aircraft to receive them and are they being installed here at SAT. Thanks guys
 
DualQual
Posts: 737
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:08 pm

Are you sure it was a -300? Several DL 757-200s have an exit door behind the wing in lieu of over wing exits. The ex TWA airplanes I believe. They also have winglets on them. With the door config they might look like a 300 at a glance.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting stuckontarmac (Thread starter):
Greetings, Noticed a Delta 753 at SAT today with winglets

Excellent! I hadn't been paying attention and didn't realize they were in for modification. I see now that N581NW and N582NW have been there a while, and I imagine it's N582NW, which has been there longer. the Winglets became part of the plan here recently for the 753 fleet.
 
FL787
Posts: 366
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:26 pm

Yes the first pair of 300s are in SAT for a new interior and winglets. About time too, the 300 I flew recently definitely looked tired on the inside.
 
Yflyer
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:40 pm

I thought I'd read here that winglets weren't approved for the 753 and likely wouldn't be since there are relatively few of them making the cost of certifying them not worthwhile. Am I remembering wrong, or did that change recently?
 
srbmod
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 1):
Are you sure it was a -300? Several DL 757-200s have an exit door behind the wing in lieu of over wing exits. The ex TWA airplanes I believe. They also have winglets on them. With the door config they might look like a 300 at a glance.

The exit doors aren't how you distinguish the 753 from a 752, the length of the fuselage is the easiest way to tell the difference. There's a reason why some people refer to the 753 as a "flying pencil" (although some refer to the 752 in that manner).

753:

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752 (Ex-TWA):

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Photo © Jacobus Saayman



On the 752 above, said exit is much closer to the wing than it is with the similar exit on a 753 (which also have overwing exits).


I guess DL figures that the costs to install and certify winglets on 16 a/c are worth it long-term.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:19 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 4):

I thought I'd read here that winglets weren't approved for the 753

United's entire fleet has had them for years, but NW/DL was the only 753 customer with Pratt engines, which weren't included in the certification. Looks like it's taken place now!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:44 am

A very tired line that i've been saying for over a year doesn't matter. Because there was currently no certification didn't mean there wouldn't be one eventaully. Delta paid for the STC quite a while ago. All 753s will get their winglets as they go in for interior mods. The entire fleet should be done by early 2015.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 4):
I thought I'd read here that winglets weren't approved for the 753 and likely wouldn't be since there are relatively few of them making the cost of certifying them not worthwhile. Am I remembering wrong, or did that change recently?

It was lower priority. The majority of 757s in the world have RR engines and this is also true of the 753. The only PW 753s ever built were for NW. That said, my understanding is that once certification is done on the RR model, the PW certification process becomes easier because the differences are so minimal.

The 753s are relatively recent aircraft and DL's business model is to keep their aircraft as long as possible, so it makes sense to add the winglets. When you have decided to operate an older fleet, anything you can do to mitigate fuel costs is probably worth it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:12 am

I think the flying pencils will look outstanding with the winglets. Every other Boeing that has had winglets added has looked better than it did before so I can't imagine these will be the exception! (The a32X sharklets look weird, ESPECIALLY the a319s, but I'll probably get used to them.)
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 7):
All 753s will get their winglets as they go in for interior mods. The entire fleet should be done by early 2015.

I'm surprised it wasn't done earlier as DL flies them on relatively long transcons and to Hawaii, where the winglets make a lot of sense.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
CO777DAL
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:43 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 4):
I thought I'd read here that winglets weren't approved for the 753 and likely wouldn't be since there are relatively few of them making the cost of certifying them not worthwhile. Am I remembering wrong, or did that change recently?

The 757-300 have had winglets for a good five years now going all the way back to Continental in 2009.


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Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
I'm surprised it wasn't done earlier as DL flies them on relatively long transcons and to Hawaii, where the winglets make a lot of sense.

They're doing them as they go in for a specific check. And they were waiting for more money   2014 is now here. All 757s that they intend on keeping will get winglets. A good portion already have them but there were many that never got them (being flown to the desert) and others had to wait. The focus was on the international fleet.
What gets measured gets done.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:03 pm

What sort of range increase does the 753 get with winglets compared to the basic version? How does that compare to a 752 with or without winglets?
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
I'm surprised it wasn't done earlier as DL flies them on relatively long transcons and to Hawaii, where the winglets make a lot of sense.

We had kicked around the business case for many years but kept deferring it. In addition to the aforementioned certification costs that were always mentioned, I suspect the high opportunity cost of keeping the planes out of service was also a factor.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 14):
We had kicked around the business case for many years but kept deferring it. In addition to the aforementioned certification costs that were always mentioned, I suspect the high opportunity cost of keeping the planes out of service was also a factor.

Cost of capital is lower than it used to be but fuel cost is trending very slightly lower, too, over the last thirty months. MaverickM11 may have been on to it with increasing stage length. The 753s used to be the queens of Walt Disney World -- and still make more than a few less-than-1000-mile DTW-MCO runs.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):

The exit doors aren't how you distinguish the 753 from a 752, the length of the fuselage is the easiest way to tell the difference. There's a reason why some people refer to the 753 as a "flying pencil" (although some refer to the 752 in that manner).

That is among the kinder nicknames for the 753. From the flight attendant's standpoint the only one printable in polite company is "Satan's Bowling Alley." Just flew one last week from FLL to ATL. Packed to the walls the carryon luggage situation in the aft cabin bordered on anarchy as the bins filled up. One poor flight attendant was tearing up as passengers reamed her out because the bins were full.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
smittyone
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
The majority of 757s in the world have RR engines and this is also true of the 753.

Moreso even with the 753 (70/30 split in favor of RR)...overall RR's advantage was only 60/40.

80% of operators chose RR but the ones that went PW bought a ton of them  

/Cliff Clavin

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 16):
Packed to the walls the carryon luggage situation in the aft cabin bordered on anarchy as the bins filled up. One poor flight attendant was tearing up as passengers reamed her out because the bins were full.

This (among other reasons) is why I couldn't be a flight attendant. If people didn't bring everything they own into the pax cabin with them like a bunch of hillbillies it wouldn't be a problem. I'm figuring I'd quickly get fired for telling somebody to walk if they don't like it, if I didn't go down the escape slide with beer x 2 first.

[Edited 2014-01-21 14:05:27]
 
SXDFC
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:00 pm

Can anyone provide any pictures?
 
studedave
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:42 am

Dumb question time...

Why does it matter which powerplant is hanging on the wing as it relates to 'certification' for winglets?


Side question- how did it work when Boeing (and others?) did the SUD modification on the 747s?


StudeDave
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
smittyone
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting STUDEDAVE (Reply 19):
Why does it matter which powerplant is hanging on the wing as it relates to 'certification' for winglets?

I'm not an aeronautical expert, but my guess is that the airflow around and through the nacelles 'matters' in terms of the potential for flutter etc. So the different shape of the PW vs. RR might interact with the airflow around the winglets in a negative way?

Personally I'm excited to see this...tells me that Delta is committed to running those sleek birds for a long time...
 
Raventech
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:01 am

Quoting STUDEDAVE (Reply 19):

It is because it is a different model (effectively) of airplane so in theory there should be no difference but because they did not test that model, it cannot be added to the STC. Though I imagine the fact it shouldn't be different between engines means testing is more/less just confirming what we already know and would be easy (you just got to spend the money to add it)
 
studedave
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:15 pm

Thanks for the answers folks.
  




StudeDave
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
questions
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 16):
Packed to the walls the carryon luggage situation in the aft cabin bordered on anarchy as the bins filled up. One poor flight attendant was tearing up as passengers reamed her out because the bins were full.

Has carryon entitlement become worse since DL introduced fees for checked luggage?
 
CV880
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:53 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):
They're doing them as they go in for a specific check

#5801 now has winglets.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:29 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 17):
80% of operators chose RR but the ones that went PW bought a ton of them  

Who ordered PW? DL, NW, EA, and UA, right? Was that it?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:39 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
Who ordered PW? DL, NW, EA, and UA, right? Was that it?

EA's 757s had RR engines. Below is the delivery list of 757s with PW engines from Boeing's website:

Condor - 17
Delta - 116
Ethiopian - 5
FAT - 7
Northwest - 72
RAM - 2
Shanghai - 13
Singapore - 4
TWA - 14
United - 98
UPS - 35
Uzbekistan - 3
USAF - 4
Mid East Jet - 1
ILFC - 38
AWAS - 3

Total - 432 of 1049
 
MIflyer12
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
Has carryon entitlement become worse since DL introduced fees for checked luggage?

IIRC, AA in May 2008 was the first of the U.S. legacy carriers to charge for the first checked bag, and carryon entitlement has gotten worse everywhere since then.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1861
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:13 am

There will be some FAA work involved with these reconfigured 757-300's.

The traditional exit rows are gone - replaced by the same design on the 737-900ER (i.e. there is no exit row leg room anymore). Also there is AVOD at every seat and that requires an additional FAA certification since it's on a new type.

The new 753's are now 75Y in the system. Seating is F24PY26Y184. An increase of 10 seats.

Closet and galley between doors 1L and 1R and first class cabin are gone. Closet moved to rear of 6AB. Galley at 2R is gone completely.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 28):
Seating is F24PY26Y184. An increase of 10 seats.

I can't complain about three more really great legroom Economy Comfort seats on the 753.....

Quoting n7371f (Reply 28):
Closet and galley between doors 1L and 1R and first class cabin are gone. Closet moved to rear of 6AB. Galley at 2R is gone completely.

I'm sure the F/As are going to love losing that galley.....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:17 am

 
srbmod
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):

New seat map is on the website:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_....html

Interesting how they swapped what side Row 14 is on. In the current setup, they are right across from the jumpseats. I guess that will potentially speed things up with boarding since passengers waiting tend to bunch up right in front of the current Row 14.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:33 pm

I'm confused...I still see a galley at 1R and 2R.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
Prost
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:42 pm

The galley at 1 right used to be on both fore and aft of the door, amd the 'galley' at door 2 right must be a small auxiliary galley, as it is forward of the lav. Probably a trash cart amd a couple of drawers of soda, i don't know, I haven't been on this plane yet.
 
AirplaneFan
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:56 am

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 18):
Can anyone provide any pictures?

Credit to Sara G

Rgds, John Anderson
I GOT YOUR SIX
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3918
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 34):

Loooooookin' good!  

I think the flying pencil is one of the coolest planes in the world and, at least with Boeing, winglets seem to make everything prettier  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:30 pm

Ok. So they're taking out the wet galley at 2R I'd guess and making it dry. It wasn't very well laid out anyway. The 1R galley will prob have the same thing. We're not using it on long enough hauls to need all that. It's the incredibly shrinking work space that does get tiring, though.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
TW870
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting B727FA (Reply 36):
It's the incredibly shrinking work space that does get tiring, though.

No kidding. They still run this airplane on a lot of flights with a hot first class meal. So now you will just have a plastic wall behind you when you are in the first class galley and facing forward? And so much less cart space, too. When I flew for United (in the 90s and early 2000s), people complained that our 757s were so much worse than the original layout on the Eastern airplanes, where the coach flight attendants did the service from the full mid- and aft- galleys (2 flight attendants worked out of each). I used to work the 757 on transcons all the time, and thought there was never enough tray setup space. But I can't imagine if they took the unit behind 1R out. Yikes!
 
Prost
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:38 am

Flight Attendants are a crafty lot. We'll b!tch about it for a rew months, but we'll make it work. We always do.
 
questions
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RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):

New seat map is on the website:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...t/Aircraft/boeing-757-300-75y.html

Economy Comfort
26 Seats
17.2 in/ 34 in
(44cm/86cm)

Don't you love how the old standard seat pitch, 34 inches, is now "Economy Comfort" and sold at a premium?

First Class
24 Seats
21 in/ 37 in
(53cm/94cm)

How does Delta plan to capture a larger share of HVC's with the tightest First among it's US domestic competitors and questionable catering? (Granted, DL's crews are the best)
 
laca773
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 28):
The traditional exit rows are gone - replaced by the same design on the 737-900ER (i.e. there is no exit row leg room anymore). Also there is AVOD at every seat and that requires an additional FAA certification since it's on a new type.

It does appear their is exit row leg room at row 40. They can't put a plug there do to the configuration, and capacity of the 753 (75Y)

Quoting questions (Reply 39):
How does Delta plan to capture a larger share of HVC's with the tightest First among it's US domestic competitors and questionable catering? (Granted, DL's crews are the best)

UA's isn't much better what so ever! DL has been trying to improve their domestic first catering, and it definitely needed it!. In fact, I feel DL has better domestic F catering now compared to the slop UA serves in F. Too bad Smisek didn't keep the CO catering and instead opted for the UA slop.

LAX/SEA-HNL/OGG/KOA are good routes for the 753s as well as the longer midcon flights that could use 763s but not available. LAX/SFO/SEA/PHX/LAS-MSP/DTW/ATL.

I can see why DL sends them to Florida a lot. They use to do a lot of L10/762/763s from ATL, instead of parking a/c that were during Trans-Atlantic flights in the evening, they were able to do quick turns during the day.
I can only imagine how they are to work, espcially since they are narrowbodies.
Hats off to DL FAs for the hard work they do, and all the garbage they put up with rude passengers, demands, carry-ons.....
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2097
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 34):

Not a bad looking 757! Although I must say the 757 would have looked even more awesome with raked wingtips!

Quoting laca773 (Reply 40):
Hats off to DL FAs for the hard work they do, and all the garbage they put up with rude passengers, demands, carry-ons.....

I am sure glad all the rude pax just stick to DL! I don't know what I'd do if I had to deal with one at WN  
 
SDFDL2MM
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:03 am

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:08 pm

The DL FA's do an amazing job, are friendly, and very willing to go above and beyond. It amazes me how many of them read the manifest and make a point to say hello to Diamond and X-MM passengers.

The 753 is a very neat and unique aircraft. You see them all the time taking families to MCO. I look forward to seeing this bird in action.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9295
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:43 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 39):
Economy Comfort
26 Seats
17.2 in/ 34 in
(44cm/86cm)

Don't you love how the old standard seat pitch, 34 inches, is now "Economy Comfort" and sold at a premium?

When was 34" standard coach seat pitch on U.S. carriers' domestic flights? Pre-1978?
 
Prost
Posts: 2605
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:33 pm

Regarding the seating, catering, reduced comfort levels, etc. With economy comfort, you can buy up to have a similar experience seat wise similar towhat economy was like 30 years ago, and it is still cheaper. The economy cabin seating reflects what we pay for our tickets.

I consider the economy class seating to yogurt cups. Twenty years ago, a cup of yogurt was 8 ounces, now it is 5.3 ounces.
 
klkla
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Delta 757-300 Winglets

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 39):
questionable catering?

Have you flown any other U.S. carriers domestically? Delta far surpasses UA in catering and although they serve chilled meals on some shorter flights than AA the quality and service is better.

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