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czek6
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Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:59 pm

With so much talk of Southwest finally launching international flights on their own metal this year, I am reminded that Southwest has stated that they intend to partner on European flights. Indeed, Southwest has stated that BWI would be the logical point to look for transatlantic partnerships. But with the consolidation of airlines in Europe, who is left for Southwest to romance??

- Condor Airlines has not been shy in seeking a partnership with Southwest (thouhg nothing publically has come from it). Condor has seasonal fliaghts to BWI from FRA. In addition, Condor's coroporate cousin, Thomas Cook, intends to do more international flying from Manchester.

- Thomas Cook flights from MAN to BWI may make sense since Condor already flies to BWI and may even happen without a partnership with Southwest.

- Norwegian Airliines could be a contender but they seem too interested in shaking up the establishment at the moment. I could see NAS using BWI as a hub for flights all across Europe, but I'm not sure NAS and Southwest would be a good fit.

- AirBerlin. Before AirBerlin went Oneworld, I would have that it was a leading candidate. I think they'll be tied up with Ethiad for a while. Likewise, IAG has Vueling tied up.

- Aer LIngus is taking the Alaska Air approach to say yes to everyone.

- And what of lesser alliance brands, could AF split off KLM to serve Southwest?

- OR could Southwest buy/start it's own long haul airline?
 
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mayor
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
- And what of lesser alliance brands, could AF split off KLM to serve Southwest?

Not sure if that would sit very well with DL, even though they don't have any actual control over it. However, it might go against the spirit and intent of the JV.
 
BD338
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:57 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
- Norwegian Airliines could be a contender but they seem too interested in shaking up the establishment at the moment. I could see NAS using BWI as a hub for flights all across Europe, but I'm not sure NAS and Southwest would be a good fit.

Of all the options, I think this is one that might be viable. Norwegian could probably use some feed on the US side, WN is (allegedly low cost) as are Norwegian. Norwegian may be a bit more B6 than WN but I'm not sure why it couldn't work. As a WN flyer, the prospect of a WN flight to BWI then connecting to an affordable business class style product on Norwegian across the pond, is highly attractive!

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
- And what of lesser alliance brands, could AF split off KLM to serve Southwest?

Why would AF split off KLM to serve Southwest instead of DL? IIRC the DL Q4 briefing said that AMS was performing particularly well for them. While KL may not be a premium ariline in the SQ style, their business model and service offerings reflect DL much more than WN. That would also be one heck of a lot of capacity for AF/DL to lose TATL.
 
flyby519
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
- OR could Southwest buy/start it's own long haul airline?

I'd like to see this. They have an incredible domestic network that could feed an enormous amount of international flying. The difficult thing would be launching wide bodies from some of their focus cities. MDW/DAL/HOU would be difficult when you look at runway and gate space logistics.

[Edited 2014-01-22 10:02:01]
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:02 pm

the problem is that WN is a low cost/low quality airline with no first class, so only a low cost/low quality airline in europe is going to want to partner with it and very few of those do TATL to begin with.
 
THEFLLFLYER
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
Norwegian Airliines could be a contender but they seem too interested in shaking up the establishment at the moment. I could see NAS using BWI as a hub for flights all across Europe, but I'm not sure NAS and Southwest would be a good fit.

Or FLL. Norwegian is growing in FLL and WN plans to add more Caribbean destinations. It will be interesting to see whether Norwegian buddies up with WN or B6 first.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 4):
WN is a low cost/low quality airline

"Low Quality". Hmmm...
 
ouboy79
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 6):
"Low Quality". Hmmm...

He's a kid, let it go.  

I think an international code-share partner would be a good logical next step. However, I don't think it happens until the domestic reservation system is figured out. Keep in mind, Amadeus is international only and that has been stressed to us many times. Though I think it would be wasteful to not just put all domestic inventory into the same system, I'm not holding my breath.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:15 pm

What would they bring to the table that existing carriers lack? Price won't be enough IMHO.
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 2):
Of all the options, I think this is one that might be viable. Norwegian could probably use some feed on the US side, WN is (allegedly low cost) as are Norwegian.

I concur. Further, Norwegian is starting service from OAK to both Stockholm and Oslo, according to a billboard I saw just outside OAK a few days ago. SW is big @ OAK so that'd be a great west-coast feed in addition to the aforementioned BWI for the east, as well as mid-America.
 
srbmod
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:33 pm

Why not Icelandair? Southwest briefly tried a partnership with them a number of years ago, but a number of factors, including incompatible computer systems, ended it.
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:08 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
Why not Icelandair?

Didn't think of that one...good one. Icelandair's service at BWI has significant potential SW feed, as does DEN. The others (SEA, BOS, MSP, etc.) have some limited feed potential, though MCO is out since Icelandair serves Sanford instead. Still, not a bad idea at all.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:29 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb but wouldn't it be cool if we partnered with LY? I know this is a pipe dream especially with the stringent security procedures with LY. But, imagine flights from BWI to LHR or Gatwick then onward to TLV or Jerusalem. Just saying. Or what about a partnership with FI?
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:35 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 12):
LY

I don't see that one working...they're too far east in Europe for much of the EU feeder traffic, no?
 
czek6
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:07 pm

Quoting Western727 (Reply 11):

I thought of Icelandair, but it would involve that carrier eating some humble pie to return to BWI. Icelandair left for Dulles in a huff ( after 17 years at BWI) after finding out that BA was receiving a subsidy they weren't getting. I think there might be too much bitterness..of course high profits have a tendency to erase such feelings.

Several commentators seem to like Norwegian over Thomas Cook/ Condor. This seems surprising, I thought Condor oils get more love.
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 pm

Quoting czek6 (Reply 14):
Icelandair left for Dulles

Oooooh. Thanks, good to know. That certainly dims the WN/FI possibility.

I admit I've put Norwegian above Condor - I think out of my own silly bias by having seen that ad @ OAK. I see Condor has flights to the SW "hubs" of LAS and BWI...that could definitely work. Checking just now I see they offer flights across much of the US through partners. Who flies their USA feed?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting Western727 (Reply 11):
(SEA, BOS, MSP, etc.) have some limited feed potential

Combining the connecting opportunities at SEA/BOS/DEN/EWR would cover most of the country except for Florida. BOS has up to 12 destinations and SEA 18 on WN.

Also, BOS and SEA will probably get DAL once the Wright Amendment goes away.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
Norwegian Airliines could be a contender

When hell freezes over.

SWAPA is actively-opposed to Norwegian's plan, formally protesting it to the DOT and putting out a somewhat-histrionic press release likening it to flags of convenience like Liberia in maritime operations and talking about how that has decimated the US-flag shipping industry. (Left out of the discussion of why anybody would flag in Liberia, of course, is any mention of how featherbedded US-flag shipping had become... Ultimately, the labor pool, with the assistance of its politician friends, priced itself out of the market.)

The Irish responded furiously to those arguments, touting the safety record of Ryanair, etc. (Ireland is where Norwegian got the AOC for its international operation, which gets it around that pesky requirement in Norway (but not Ireland) that you not hire third-world cabin crews.)

Call it a sham or call it merely creative lawyering that follows the letter of the law, the bottom line is that SWAPA HATES IT.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting czek6 (Reply 14):

One thing I've learned from living my life in Maryland; this state is fickle. If there's room for growth and profit FI could come back and there could be an alliance with them. Regarding LY maybe as a second partner, along with the primary European partner.
 
737tanker
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:34 am

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
With so much talk of Southwest finally launching international flights on their own metal this year, I am reminded that Southwest has stated that they intend to partner on European flight


The only way that SWA can do any kind of codeshare (except with AirTan) is to amend their contract with SWAPA. Currently the SWAPA contact does not allow international codeshar, and I don't see the pilots giving that away.
 
wwtraveler99
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:54 am

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 19):
Currently the SWAPA contact does not allow international codeshar, and I don't see the pilots giving that away

Are you sure about this? I believe that the contract prohibits "domestic" code share. This also comes with a clause specifically allowing an inter-Island Hawaii codeshare.



WW
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:39 am

I'm VERY sure about this. Absolutely no near or far International Codeshare allowed unless Section 1 of the Pilots' CBA is amended, and the Pilot group isn't going to allow that to happen.
 
hohd
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 4):
the problem is that WN is a low cost/low quality airline with no first class, so only a low cost/low quality airline in europe is going to want to partner with it and very few of those do TATL to begin with.

WN is not low quality, in fact its quality is higher than UA, AA, DL and US. They offer free snacks and serve more than water even on short haul flights, plus they are probably the ONLY airline in the entire world to offer 2 free bags and NO change fees whatsoever. I would say that along with JetBlue these airlines are the only two full service airlines left in the US.

They are also not low cost either, often they are more expensive than the 4 airlines.

In regards to a TATL partner, they need to look at airlines serving BOS or BWI.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:16 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 12):
I'm going to go out on a limb but wouldn't it be cool if we partnered with LY? I know this is a pipe dream especially with the stringent security procedures with LY. But, imagine flights from BWI to LHR or Gatwick then onward to TLV or Jerusalem. Just saying. Or what about a partnership with FI?

LY is currently partnering with AA out of JFK,EWR,YYZ,LAX,LHR and CDG. LY and WN would not work as WN only flies to two of the LY's north american gateways, also many LY passengers who are not stopping at YYZ,JFK or EWR are going to ORD,ATL,DTW,MSP,MIA and AA has got that covered.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:32 am

I think Ryanair would be a logical choice for a European codeshare. However, one of them would have to make the first move to cross the Atlantic since both fly 737NGs. Perhaps once the MAXs come online it would be possible.
 
kochamLOT
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:27 am

A few people beat me to it.. my original post remains below

WHAT IF:
Southwest and Ryanair worked on a joint venture to combine low cost services between N.A and Europe. Its very far-fetched and Ryanair operates more like Spirit than Southwest...but what if?

A few leased 787 in a high density configuration to connect Ryanair with a few of Southwests focus cities. St. Louis? Philadelphia? Atlanta (watch out Delta)?

I am not sure how Ryanair works - I dont think they work hub and spoke exactly but take a few focus cities from each and I could see the potential benefits for both carriers.

[Edited 2014-01-23 00:29:01]
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:40 am

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 25):
A few leased 787 in a high density configuration to connect Ryanair with a few of Southwests focus cities

Totally agree. I think 787s are absolutely in WNs future. If they get Boeing to bring back the 787-3, then I'd say it's guaranteed.
 
Ferroviarius
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 24):
I think Ryanair would be a logical choice for a European codeshare. However, one of them would have to make the first move to cross the Atlantic since both fly 737NGs. Perhaps once the MAXs come online it would be possible.
Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 25):
A few people beat me to it.. my original post remains belowWHAT IF:Southwest and Ryanair worked on a joint venture to combine low cost services between N.A and Europe. Its very far-fetched and Ryanair operates more like Spirit than Southwest...but what if?A few leased 787 in a high density configuration to connect Ryanair with a few of Southwests focus cities. St. Louis? Philadelphia? Atlanta (watch out Delta)? I am not sure how Ryanair works - I dont think they work hub and spoke exactly but take a few focus cities from each and I could see the potential benefits for both carriers.

To me that sounds absolutely reasonable on the one hand. BUT on the other hand:
Who would be the Senior in this partnership? "Ideologically", Ryan is a Southwestern offspring, if I recall correctly.

So, could there be "34?" - Transatlantic Airways", squeezing the technically possible - but of course cruel - 3-3-3 into the 34?s to be phased out from LH, SWISS, SAS and others during the years to come (which would take ANY sympathy from the 34?s, who then would be just as un-comfortable as the 7??s, besides, possibly, a little bit less noisy)?

Best,
Ferroviarius
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 22):
WN is not low quality, in fact its quality is higher than UA, AA, DL and US.

Huh i disagree with that!! AA,DL,UA can get me almost anywhere in the world WN cant even get me to Hawaii, also i get free soda and snacks on DL : )...
 
Lexy
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 28):
Huh i disagree with that!! AA,DL,UA can get me almost anywhere in the world WN cant even get me to Hawaii, also i get free soda and snacks on DL : )...

Apples to Oranges. From a domestic standpoint, they are better and the surveys show that among people who fly.
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 25):
Southwest and Ryanair worked on a joint venture

Not in favor of this - Ryan is like NK and not like WN. Many of us have said on other boards that we avoid NK (Spirit), myself included (never flown on them). SW is of significantly higher quality - they don't nickel and dime their pax to death. And the pax have a significant percentage of frequent biz travelers, myself included. NK is pretty much exclusively leisure; let them partner with Ryan, if anything.
 
AirFiero
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:55 pm

I was talking with a WN flight attendant a few months ago, and she said something about the airline might be trying to buy that LCC, what is it, Ryanair?
 
SASMD82
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:01 pm

I have never flown on Southwest so I cannot judge them in terms of service. I can imagine that the current planes they have are not fully suitable for flights up to 8 hours.

They could opt to agree with a EU LCC and agree to have some feeder routes with for instance RyanAir.

Charleroi - Baltimore
Dublin - Chicago Midway

Some trunck routes with some big planes (some second hand A333)? The feed on both sides would be enormous.
Nice idea, the only problem: Will this ever happen?
 
flyby519
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:11 pm

I think Southwest and Ryainair would be interested in the possibility, but neither side would want to take up the responsibility of getting a new widebody fleet and TATL operation set up. The real opportunity comes from a 3rd party who could work with both carriers and do the TATL-only. I'm not sure if Ryanair has any Euro-LCC friends like Icelandair, Norweigan, etc but that might be the future. Maybe EI?
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:20 pm

I'm sorry, I just can't see WN parterning with FR. Ryanair has a trashy pax-experience reputation like NK, and caters primarily to leisure travelers. I fly WN and AA frequently (mostly for work) since I live in AUS...and I see a fair amount of fellow business travelers when I fly on WN.

Why would WN want to be associated with an NK-like airline that nickels and dimes its pax to death and puts its seats at a 28-inch pitch?
 
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par13del
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 21):
Absolutely no near or far International Codeshare allowed unless Section 1 of the Pilots' CBA is amended, and the Pilot group isn't going to allow that to happen.

So WN, an all domestic carrier - until buyout of FL - signed an agreement with its pilot that prohibited them from engaging in international "offerings" without first seeking the approval of their pilots?

Wow, talk about being proactive, hats off to that union.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:55 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 33):
I think Southwest and Ryainair would be interested in the possibility, but neither side would want to take up the responsibility of getting a new widebody fleet and TATL operation set up.

I disagree. I think WN would be the one who would own the widebody. The 737, 737MAX, whatever, will only take WN so far. If they're talking about going deep into South America, then having a widebody (787) would be for them. While they have the fleet, operate it to Shannon, Stansted, Paris, etc. As well as Santiago, etc.
 
airliner371
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:25 pm

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 19):

The only way that SWA can do any kind of codeshare (except with AirTan) is to amend their contract with SWAPA. Currently the SWAPA contact does not allow international codeshar, and I don't see the pilots giving that away.
Quoting SWADawg (Reply 21):
Absolutely no near or far International Codeshare allowed unless Section 1 of the Pilots' CBA is amended, and the Pilot group isn't going to allow that to happen.

Is it all international or just near international codeshares that are not allowed?

Either way, I think this is what Gary and the rest of the executives were talking about on todays call when they said they want to get "more flexibility" out of the new contracts. I think that these less important rules are going to be part of negotiations because they are starting to impede on the airline.

I know quite a few group's contracts are up, when are the Pilot's contracts up or are they already?
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:00 am

The Pilots, F/A's, Ground Ops, and Mechanics are all in active negotiations with the Company. The Pilots contract prohibits both near and far International Codeshare. All flying except for the AirTran flying and some limited intra Carribean and intra island Hawaiian flying MUST be flown by Pilots on the Southwest Master Seniority List.
 
airliner371
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 38):
The Pilots, F/A's, Ground Ops, and Mechanics are all in active negotiations with the Company. The Pilots contract prohibits both near and far International Codeshare. All flying except for the AirTran flying and some limited intra Carribean and intra island Hawaiian flying MUST be flown by Pilots on the Southwest Master Seniority List.

Thanks for the info.

I would expect this to change in the next 2-3 years. I would understand if they keep the 'no codeshare for flights within the US' but besides that, I expect this restriction to be removed as well as other excessive restrictions like this.

[Edited 2014-01-23 19:16:01]
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:20 am

Don't bet on it. The Pilot group spent A LOT of negotiating capital to get the best Scope Language in the industry. It would cost the Company A LOT of money or a trip through Bankruptcy to get that part of the contract amended to allow that type of flying. If Southwest wants to fly to Europe, they can call the Boeing Company and order some 787's and fly them with Southwest flight crews. I do think this will happen eventually once the near International routes start to mature probably within the next 8-10 years more than likely.

[Edited 2014-01-23 19:22:04]

[Edited 2014-01-23 19:22:30]
 
travaz
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:25 am

Does anyone think WN could pull off a People express type operation to maybe 3 European markets? LON FRA CDG or MAD
 
airliner371
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 40):
The Pilot group spent A LOT of negotiating capital to get the best Scope Language in the industry.

And they are spoiled (coming from a Southwest fan) and they need to come to reality. SWA will not renew the contract with as many restrictions as there are now. Things are going to change whether the workforce wants to admit it or not. (And that goes for more than just the pilots)

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 40):
It would cost the Company A LOT of money or a trip through Bankruptcy to get that part of the contract amended to allow that type of flying.

I would like your opinion. Why? Why shouldn't Southwest be able to codeshare with... Are Lingus or Alitalia or whom ever if it is not competing with Southwest service? I don't see a good reason for the restriction.
 
737tanker
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:56 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 42):
Why shouldn't Southwest be able to codeshare with... Are Lingus or Alitalia or whom ever if it is not competing with Southwest service? I don't see a good reason for the restriction

There is one very good reason...JOBS. If Gary wants to fly SWA passengers to Europe, or anywhere else, he can do it with SWA aircraft (doesn't have to be 737s) and crews. Once the nose of the codeshare camel is under the tent it is very difficult to get it back out.
 
airliner371
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:17 am

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 43):
There is one very good reason...JOBS. If Gary wants to fly SWA passengers to Europe, or anywhere else, he can do it with SWA aircraft (doesn't have to be 737s) and crews. Once the nose of the codeshare camel is under the tent it is very difficult to get it back out.

And how is this different than at B6, DL, UA, US, AA, AS or any of the majors?

Maybe, instead of making SWA do long international on its own metal, all this restriction does is stop any chance of SWA passengers from getting to Europe.

Like I said, things are going to need to change in these contracts. And again, I am an avid Southwest fan, just looking out of the lens of reality. And I love all of the employees at SWA, you all do an amazing job every day.

[Edited 2014-01-23 20:20:08]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 25):
WHAT IF:
Southwest and Ryanair worked on a joint venture to combine low cost services between N.A and Europe. Its very far-fetched and Ryanair operates more like Spirit than Southwest...but what if?

The only thing WN and FR have in common is a fleet of one-class 737s. It would make more sense for WN to partner with a LCC like AirBerlin or Tui. It would involve interline agreements and code-shares and it would be a nightmare to implement with WN's computers (I'd bet, anyway). WN's isolationist behavior might come to bite it in the butt.

Several years ago, NZ made an open overture to Southwest, but nothing came of it.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 26):
Totally agree. I think 787s are absolutely in WNs future. If they get Boeing to bring back the 787-3, then I'd say it's guaranteed.

The 787-3 is canceled and I would be shocked to see it resurrected. The base 788 is efficient at short range, as well as long. The bleedless architecture is much more efficient in takeoff-climb than conventional architecture. WN will not be ordering 788's. They might order the 737-9MAX.
 
SWADawg
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
The 787-3 is canceled and I would be shocked to see it resurrected. The base 788 is efficient at short range, as well as long. The bleedless architecture is much more efficient in takeoff-climb than conventional architecture. WN will not be ordering 788's. They might order the 737-9MAX.

I'll take that bet. WN will be flying the 787 sometime in the next ten years. There are simply too many places that WN can't reach with just a 737. Management has started to concede that point and have even started to indicate that a larger Airframe is in our future. They want to crawl before they walk, which is why they haven't ordered the 787 yet, but WN's focus post 2014 is almost exclusively on International growth. Gary Kelly's favorite phrase lately has been to take Southwest from being America's favorite Airline to being the World's favorite Airline.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 38):
The Pilots, F/A's, Ground Ops, and Mechanics are all in active negotiations with the Company.

You could have just said everyone.   Not sure how the other groups are going, but IAM hasn't been all that rosy in their messages for the Airport CSA/Reservations group.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
WN will not be ordering 788's. They might order the 737-9MAX.

The 737 can only do so much. The "might" order of the -9MAX really isn't that much of a stretch and I think most expect it to happen.
 
richierich
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RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 28):
Huh i disagree with that!! AA,DL,UA can get me almost anywhere in the world WN cant even get me to Hawaii, also i get free soda and snacks on DL : )...

I'm only going to say this once....having a larger network does not equal higher quality. Period.

The future of WN is very interesting. Eventually they are going to run out of growth in the US - if they haven't already - and it will only be through merger or acquisition will they grow much beyond their current domestic size. Therefore one would have to assume the Caribbean and Central America are ripe for the Southwest picking, although they have allowed competition (namely Virgin America, Jetblue, Spirit) to get into many markets before they did. Yes, I am aware that FL flew the Caribbean but by my reckoning, all WN has done is to slowly retreat.

SO if the Caribbean and CA maybe in their near future, what about long term? And the possibility of TATL? As it stands right now, they don't have the product, the equipment or really the hubs to do Europe. BUT...a lot can change in 5 years. Even more in 10 years. I think it is fun to speculate but only WN leadership really has a long-term strategy and even that is subject to revision!  
 
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par13del
Posts: 10988
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Southwest Transatlantic Partner?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 40):
The Pilot group spent A LOT of negotiating capital

We will need another thread but I would love to know what capital they spent getting management to agree to a single source pilot contract. I hope its not productivity, as even though WN pilot wages are now among the highest in the industry - after the other came down in chpt.11 - what continues to ensure WN's profitablility is the higher productivity, by now that should be accepted as a good thing for any business and not something to be negotiated.

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