Eastern Air Lines Group, Inc. Files With US DOT

TZTriStar500 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:01 am

I can't believe this has not been picked up here yet. If there is another thread I have not noticed, please delete.

Eastern Air Lines Group, Inc. files with the U.S. Dept. of Transportation as the first step in launching the new Eastern Air Lines

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/easter...air-lines-group-inc-161500875.html

therevmatt · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:04 am

Wegel has been looking to "restart" EAL for some time. I believe he was working on a deal with COMAC, but with their future with FAA certification questionable, it makes me wonder what the next step is.

usxguy · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:22 am

no idea. But they are only applying to be a charter airline.

Byrdluvs747 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:36 am

I don't understand starting a fledgling airline in a fortress hub like MIA and go up against the worlds largest airline. Why not choose another city like STL, or PIT? Is there room at BWI?

rj777 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:58 am

I thought Part 121 is a scheduled commercial carrier....

rj777 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 am

Found on Yahoo answers:
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080913222858AAwNLyj

So we are looking at a regularly scheduled (non-charter airline)!

sunking737 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:49 am

There was too much childish AA, B6 are going to eat them alive. Also management bashing, If they are doing charter maybe they will go after U.S - Cuba flights?? Maybe they can get some of the G4 sub service?? I feel they have a better chance then People Express or California Pacific

ridgid727 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:58 am

It appears they are applying as a "charter airline" for a certificate of public necessity and convenience.

Here is their application they filed, and are awaiting prosecution of it.

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf89/564.pdf

wjcandee · Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:04 am

Why the heck didn't Continental preserve this trademark and its ownership thereof? It wouldn't have taken much, and would have let this famed name -- that my uncle flew for -- rest in peace.

Just stupid to try to recycle a heritage name like this. And stupider to think that any passengers remember it particularly-fondly. It's just a dumb vanity project.

[Edited 2014-01-28 19:04:41]

DeltaMD90 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:34 am

Do any of these renamed airlines actually work? Frontier is the only one I can think of that is kinda successful.

Are they going to brand themselves to look like the old EAL or are they just using the name? To be fair, Eastern Air Lines is a pretty generic name

Braniff747SP · Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:57 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Are they going to brand themselves to look like the old EAL or are they just using the name? To be fair, Eastern Air Lines is a pretty generic name

Based of their website, they're using every EA trademark they can find.

Wingtips56 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:02 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 14):
Based of their website, they're using every EA trademark they can find.

They are also making the original Eastern's history their own. "The Wings of Man", logo, Eddie Rickenbacker, Frank Borman, etc. Misrepresentation, IMO.

ridgid727 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:04 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 15):

They are also making the original Eastern's history their own. "The Wings of Man", logo, Eddie Rickenbacker, Frank Borman, etc. Misrepresentation, IMO.

If you read the application, they state they paid $675,000 for all Intellectual Property of the former Eastern Airlines, and that they own the rights to all of that.

wjcandee · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:22 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 16):
they state they paid $675,000 for all Intellectual Property of the former Eastern Airlines

They got robbed.

BDL757 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:58 am

This interview with Ed Wegel is certainly interesting: EAL Radio Episode 136 . He seems to be quite serious about restarting the airline and appears to have a lot of investors giving $$$. I didn't listen to the whole thing but I was interested by Mr. Wegel's statement that they have partnered with a major airline for crew training and maintenance. I realize that a small operation like this (if it gets off the ground) would outsource training and maintenance but you wouldn't think that a major airline who will compete with them would want to do business with them. Any guesses as to which airline?

tyler81190 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:03 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 21):
This interview with Ed Wegel is certainly interesting: EAL Radio Episode 136 . He seems to be quite serious about restarting the airline and appears to have a lot of investors giving $$$. I didn't listen to the whole thing but I was interested by Mr. Wegel's statement that they have partnered with a major airline for crew training and maintenance. I realize that a small operation like this (if it gets off the ground) would outsource training and maintenance but you wouldn't think that a major airline who will compete with them would want to do business with them. Any guesses as to which airline?

Well, i would laugh if it were UA (at the IAH CO training center)... But I know DL does a lot of training for many companies. It will have to be an airline that has a facility in the U.S., and operates Airbus A32x family aircraft, so DL/AA/US/F9??

I assume Maintenance will be done by AA at MIA or run to Mexico, but DL has made a big business of MRO services at ATL, and IFS training.

wjcandee · Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:29 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 21):
you wouldn't think that a major airline who will compete with them would want to do business with them.

First of all, there is a long tradition in the airline business of cooperation with one's competitors. What goes around comes around. Delta will do maintenance for anyone that wants it. It's not like by turning away a competitor's business you are precluding them from going somewhere else, perhaps even for less money. Better to make money from your competitor than not make money from your competitor. Remember, AA did Allegiant's maintenance for years.

One exception was when ValuJet wanted NW to do its DC9 maintenance, to put to rest the stupid rumours that shoddy maintenance had anything whatsoever to do with Critter 592. NW saw a chance to put the knife in, and tried to do so by saying NO. With a billion dollars in the bank, ValuJet rode out the hysteria while Northwest tanked. A lovely irony. NW should have taken ValuJet's money. (ValuJet's original team is, of course, now at Allegiant. Which is why Allegiant had AA do their maintenance from the beginning.)

Second, DL could safely take this fool's money and not worry about the effect this boneheaded plan is going to have on DL's profitability. They just want to be careful to have security or cash up front because there is a flameout even more fast and spectacular than Skybus coming this way.

[Edited 2014-01-28 22:30:40]

[Edited 2014-01-28 22:33:57]

tyler81190 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:39 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 21):
First of all, there is a long tradition in the airline business of cooperation with one's competitors. What goes around comes around. Delta will do maintenance for anyone that wants it. It's not like by turning away a competitor's business you are precluding them from going somewhere else, perhaps even for less money. Better to make money from your competitor than not make money from your competitor. Remember, AA did Allegiant's maintenance for years.

Exactly, plus DL or anyone who will do the mx work knows that this tiny operation isn't going to have any significant impact on their own operations in the short term. I wish them the best of luck though.

Quoting rampart (Reply 22):
But yes, the list of revived and then re-dead airline names is long, and one wonders why simple superstition doesn't come into play. Western, Ozark, Pan Am, Braniff, whatever-happened-to-People's Express. I'm not going to count Piedmont, PSA, or Republic.

I am all for leaving the giants of the past in the past... But I wish the new EA the best of luck, as I would love to see more competition in the U.S. Market. I hope they can survive, and hey, I may take a flight on them just to try it out. Plus, it doesn't hurt to have another company hiring pilots, flight attendants, and ground crew, be it in house or outsource on the ground. (a job is a job these days I guess)

freakyrat · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:34 pm

Before everyone starts making all these comments about this, I learned a little about this from people familiar with it at one of the Airliners International memorabilia shows. This has been in the works for years, and a good person from the former Eastern is behind this with numerous backers and former employees. From what I heard this airline is going to be based in Miami flying Airbus A320 aircraft and that is about all I know.

Rbgso · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:44 pm

DL's fleet of DC9s finally appears to be available, so if they really want to feel nostalgic they could pick up some of those to start out with.....

xdlx · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:47 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):

Marketing .... Just like a baloon Full of Hot Air.

raddek · Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:55 pm

The MIGHTY EASTERN flies again!!

srbmod · Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

I remember when Martin Shagrue was trying to resurrect Eastern after it folded and the rights to the name, logos and associated trademarks were held by a creditor who wanted (IIRC) something like $2-3 million for those assets and the "New" Eastern Airlines died on the vine and Shagrue went on to start the second incarnation of Pan Am.

While it has been 23 years since Eastern folded and the average traveler these days is likely to have never flown on the original EAL, so the brand recognition isn't as strong as it once was.

Dalmd88 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:56 pm

I would beware of this management team. They have been involved in some trainwreck airlines; Atlantic Coast, Tower, Mesa, Kitty Hawk to name a few.

usxguy · Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 6):
So we are looking at a regularly scheduled (non-charter airline)!

That's not what they submitted to the DOT. Its clearly for DOMESTIC and FOREIGN charters. The scheduled authority application would have details about routes, revenue forecasts, etc. The filing has none of that.

eaglepower83 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:52 pm

Well I wish them luck.
They could've spruced up the logo a bit.
It looks as "nostalgic" as the tired old globe on all the CO

, I mean UA planes.

freakyrat · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 pm

Qouting Dalmd88 Reply 31

"I would beware of this management team. They have been involved in some trainwreck airlines; Atlantic Coast, Tower, Mesa, Kitty Hawk to name a few."

Why criticize this management team selection. At least they have airline backgrounds. Looking at some of todays airline management teams one airline's Director of Route Planning has his BA in Biology. I guess its good for dissecting route structures. Just being funny here as he has worked for several airlines also. So we have to give this group a chance as this has been in the works for some time now.

Italianflyer · Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 pm

Slightly OT but wasnt there a reincarnation of Western that operated as a public charter for about 45 minutes a couple years ago???

superjeff · Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
I remember when Martin Shagrue was trying to resurrect Eastern after it folded and the rights to the name, logos and associated trademarks were held by a creditor who wanted (IIRC) something like $2-3 million for those assets and the "New" Eastern Airlines died on the vine and Shagrue went on to start the second incarnation of Pan Am.

While it has been 23 years since Eastern folded and the average traveler these days is likely to have never flown on the original EAL, so the brand recognition isn't as strong as it once was.

Actually, Shagrue was going to restart Eastern (as New Eastern), but was convinced that the Carnival takeover of Pan Am II had more of a chance, so he put his money there. The Eastern liquidation actually made a profit and the company's creditors received, IIRC, 100% of their claims plus a further dividend.

I'd love to see the hockey stick fly again!

lightsaber · Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Eastern was once the largest airline in the USA as the airline division of General Motors. But who remembers that?

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
Nobody in their right mind would try to resurrecct that legacy.

I'm not seeing the advantage beyond an easy to recognize name. That has value. I think just enough to justify buying the old name over inventing a new one.

It won't be the same legacy by any means. Not with both WN and DL as strong as they are at ATL.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 30):
Why criticize this management team selection. At least they have airline backgrounds.

Hopefully they have a good business plan. I fully expect the mechanics to be a non-issue on Eastern 2.0.

Lightsaber

srbmod · Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 32):
Actually, Shagrue was going to restart Eastern (as New Eastern), but was convinced that the Carnival takeover of Pan Am II had more of a chance, so he put his money there. The Eastern liquidation actually made a profit and the company's creditors received, IIRC, 100% of their claims plus a further dividend.

I clearly mentioned "New" Eastern in the post of mine you quoted...

The parent company of the second incarnation of Pan Am bought Carnival Air Lines, not the other way around. Pan Am II started service in September 1996 and took over Carnival in September of 1997 and before the two airlines could be merged, they filed for bankruptcy in February 1998 and ceased operations soon thereafter. This is when Guilford Transportation bought the airline "on the courthouse steps" and restarted operations on the Carnival operating certificate in June 1998 eventually becoming the third incarnation of Pan Am before that finally version was shuttered in 2004.

superjeff · Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 33):
Hopefully they have a good business plan. I fully expect the mechanics to be a non-issue on Eastern 2.0.

Lightsaber

Charlie Bryan died a few months ago, and he made the fight personal with Eastern. So I fully agree with you.

mtnwest1979 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting italianflyer (Reply 31):
Slightly OT but wasnt there a reincarnation of Western that operated as a public charter for about 45 minutes a couple years ago???

Yes, using Xtra 737s out of Bellingham (BLI) to SAN, Phoenix area, IIRC and a discontinued before started RNO service.
Actually think they were around for 60 minutes though.......

ridgid727 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:32 pm

It appears they are filing for "charter" status, but according to their documentation, they have already bought into Amadeus, so I would think at some point they would request regular scheduled authority.

I do believe they are really interested in Cuban Charters, and probably before Ombama leaves office we will see regularly scheduled flghts from the US to Havana and other airports.

GSPSPOT · Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 19):
DL's fleet of DC9s finally appears to be available, so if they really want to feel nostalgic they could pick up some of those to start out with.....

Hey - I would LOVE that!

Quoting raddek (Reply 21):
The MIGHTY EASTERN flies again!!

We hope...

bond007 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 4):

I thought Part 121 is a scheduled commercial carrier...

Just to be clear on this, any charter using an aircraft over 7500 lbs, or over 30 seats, and used for "common carriage", i.e. selling tickets to general public, is operated under Part 121 Supplemental.

"Common Carriage" is the key here. If it's for a company or specific sports team, it may be under Part 125 I believe.

I think I got that right!

Jimbo

bobnwa · Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 29):
Eastern was once the largest airline in the USA as the airline division of General Motors. But who remembers that?

I do remember Eastern being the largest but I do not recall them having anything to do with General Motors. When did that occur?

PanAm1971 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:55 pm

Very exciting! I wish them well... and I wonder if we might have some other once highflying brands re-launched? (raises eyebrow)

tyler81190 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 38):
Very exciting! I wish them well... and I wonder if we might have some other once highflying brands re-launched? (raises eyebrow)

I hope we may see a once high-flying brand successfully re-launched, and continue to operate more than a year or two.

WesternA318 · Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 37):
I do remember Eastern being the largest but I do not recall them having anything to do with General Motors. When did that occur?

1934-1938.

N62NA · Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 16):
DL could safely take this fool's money and not worry about the effect this boneheaded plan is going to have on DL's profitability

What is so "boneheaded" about the plan?

As airline enthusiasts, it still amazes me that there's a contingent of naysayers on here that poo-poo any news of a new start-up airline. Don't we WANT to see more VARIETY in the skies? I know I do.

RDUCO · Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:12 am

Would love to have OnePass back

MAH4546 · Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:15 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 24):
Quoting rj777 (Reply 6):So we are looking at a regularly scheduled (non-charter airline)!
That's not what they submitted to the DOT. Its clearly for DOMESTIC and FOREIGN charters. The scheduled authority application would have details about routes, revenue forecasts, etc. The filing has none of that.

They intend to begin initially as a charter carrier, and a further point will transition to scheduled flying.

RWA380 · Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:47 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 16):
First of all, there is a long tradition in the airline business of cooperation with one's competitors

IE ........ AS & DL they are working together through gritted teeth

tyler81190 · Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:10 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 43):
IE ........ AS & DL they are working together through gritted teeth

Yes, but less so. DL sees AS as a substantial competitor... so they are limiting the amount of help they will give. But a fledgling EA startup won't have any impact on DL or any carrier so they would be more than willing to take their money!

EA CO AS · Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:41 am

I'm thrilled to see the EA colors potentially fly again...

...but....

...how in the world is it that they managed to eff up the way the falcon logo is displayed on the site?

The falcon logo is always to appear facing forward in a left to right orientation, like this:

The way they've displayed it (above, top) is the exception, displayed on the port side of the aircraft when "forward" would appear in a traveling right to left orientation. In all advertising collateral, media, etc, it's supposed to be headed L to R.

tjwgrr · Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:33 pm

IF they get off the ground, hopefully they'll go with either of these traditional schemes, NOT the one pictured on their web-site:

Bleh:

GSPSPOT · Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:26 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 46):

IF they get off the ground, hopefully they'll go with either of these traditional schemes, NOT the one pictured on their web-site:

Bleh:

The original two-tone strip DEFINITELY looks better... Would be so SA-WHEET to see that scheme fly again!

rj777 · Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:45 pm

Is it just me, or does the plane in that pic look like an A321? I thought they said they were only doing A319s.

wjcandee · Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:46 pm

Cheaper to do one color over the white instead of three (light blue, dark blue, black). Or maybe the kid who photoshopped the picture for them didn't know how to do it in 3 colors.

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