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PSAjet17
Topic Author
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Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:56 pm

Allegiant Air said it will end its twice-weekly flights between Phoenix-Mesa Gateway (AZA) and Manhattan, KS (MHK) late next month (Feb 23, 2014).

http://kjzz.org/content/17322/allegiant-air-end-route-gateway-airport
 
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sunking737
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:30 pm

We may see more cuts in service to markets that are not supporting much traffic?? They could send that plane from AZA to PIE or SFB then thy won't need to ask for sub service in Florida.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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mhkansan
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:55 pm

I work those flights every Thursday and Sunday and the load factors are just average. The lightest flight we ever had was 80 pax and often they'd go out with 130-140 pax, so I don't think we were loosing money for them. They had all their operational costs at MHK covered by local eco devo agreements so I think they really needed that plane elsewhere (East Coast operations). Keep in mind, the MHK terminal is being completely rebuilt and expanded with two and room for four jetbridged gates.

It's sad to see them leave so soon, but I can't say I'm all too surprised given their track record.

Don't let this reflect on the status of MHK air service, which is still strong. AA has really raised their prices and are still filling flights, even into the winter months.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:57 pm

Would MHK-SFB, -PIE, or -FLL be good?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:59 pm

This is news? G4 drops routes left and right if they're not working...same with NK.
 
mhkansan
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 3):
Would MHK-SFB, -PIE, or -FLL be good?

G4 would have done loads better with LAS or SFB service. We have one of the US' largest military bases right next door - Phoenix is great, but not a destination on the same scale as LAS or SFB! Soldiers want to gamble or take their families to the beach and Disney World. K-State students want to go on Spring Break. MHK would love to be the airport for that demand but airlines won't serve it, so all the leisure travelers drive 2+ hours to MCI or ICT to fly WN.

I should start my own LCC I guess  
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
I should start my own LCC I guess  

How about a G4 business model with CRJ-200s lol?
Start a whole new very small town to fun service. HYS-LAS, DDC-PIE etc  

Only need load factr of 250% lol.

I thought, too, that choice of destination was probably last one from MHK I would have chosen. LAS and FL make a lot more sense to me.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:57 pm

The geniuses on the 3TV 10PM newscast last night here in Phoenix reported the end of Allegiant's MHK service to Mesa as the end of flights between Gateway and "the Big Apple". Anyone else catch that?
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
prosa
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:05 pm

A business news report yesterday on one of the New York radio stations reported that Allegiant would be ending service between New York and Arizona. Guess they got confused by the Manhattan reference too.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Cactus739
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 7):

Sounds about right for them. 3TV is about the worst news station in the valley. It shares that honor with abc 15.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
point2point
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
We have one of the US' largest military bases right next door - Phoenix is great, but not a destination on the same scale as LAS or SFB!

Maybe MHK needs some sort of DEN flight (I think that they had ZK doing this ages ago)? This way they'll have ORD, DFW, and DEN covering all of the possible directions that anyone to/from MHK and then with DEN providing Phoenix area, LAS, LAX, and almost all others westward destinations with convenience and without backtrack. The question is what carrier would it be beneficial to (certainly not AA or G4) and how much would the airport/area want to spend $$$$$ for this, if warranted?

 
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:17 pm

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 7):
The geniuses on the 3TV 10PM newscast last night here in Phoenix reported the end of Allegiant's MHK service to Mesa as the end of flights between Gateway and "the Big Apple". Anyone else catch that?

Sadly I bet most of the audience didn't catch that. News on any level never ceases to amaze me at how little they bother to fact check anything these days. Btw I always call MHK "The Windy Apple" when someone misunderstands me to mean NYC.
 
PSAjet17
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:23 pm

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 7):
The geniuses on the 3TV 10PM newscast last night here in Phoenix reported the end of Allegiant's MHK service to Mesa as the end of flights between Gateway and "the Big Apple". Anyone else catch that?

While I am not a fan of any of the locally produced news programs (everything is "Breaking News" or "we were the first to bring you this story".) this error possibly was caused by the Associated Press. I did a quick check and the stories posted were all copies of the AP release, so AP might have started the whole thing by making reference to the Big Apple.
 
777STL
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
G4 would have done loads better with LAS or SFB service. We have one of the US' largest military bases right next door - Phoenix is great, but not a destination on the same scale as LAS or SFB! Soldiers want to gamble or take their families to the beach and Disney World. K-State students want to go on Spring Break.

Then again, PHX is a huge winter destination for affluent older people from the midwest. i.e. snowbirds. That sort of traffic is probably more lucrative than broke college students wanting to go to Vegas for spring break.
PHX based
 
mhkansan
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 13):
Then again, PHX is a huge winter destination for affluent older people from the midwest. i.e. snowbirds. That sort of traffic is probably more lucrative than broke college students wanting to go to Vegas for spring break.

Aparently not. Maybe from GRI or ICT, and yeah there was a healthy amount of traffic to AZA, but not enough to keep G4. You can't ignore the military, and GI's don't want to go to Phoenix.

Quoting point2point (Reply 10):
Maybe MHK needs some sort of DEN flight (I think that they had ZK doing this ages ago)? This way they'll have ORD, DFW, and DEN covering all of the possible directions that anyone to/from MHK and then with DEN providing Phoenix area, LAS, LAX, and almost all others westward destinations with convenience and without backtrack. The question is what carrier would it be beneficial to (certainly not AA or G4) and how much would the airport/area want to spend $$$$$ for this, if warranted?

DEN makes a lot of sense. That's what the business community wants, and service I think we could definitely sustain with even 2x daily service. The problem is that United opened their station at FOE, and from what I've been told, the loads so far are downright abysmal. I hope their FOE experiment doesn't scare them out of Kansas. The Q400 is the right airplane for DEN-MHK.
 
EricR
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 14):

Aparently not. Maybe from GRI or ICT, and yeah there was a healthy amount of traffic to AZA, but not enough to keep G4. You can't ignore the military, and GI's don't want to go to Phoenix.

I think this has less to do with Phoenix as a destination and more with the fact that MHK simply does not have the traffic required to maintain service regardless of destination. ICT and GRI can sustain service to AZA, so Phoenix as a destination is not the issue. I think the issue has more to do with MHK's inability to support air service - period.
 
777STL
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 14):
Aparently not. Maybe from GRI or ICT, and yeah there was a healthy amount of traffic to AZA, but not enough to keep G4. You can't ignore the military, and GI's don't want to go to Phoenix.

Young single enlisted men don't want to go to Disney World either and I'm skeptical that a military base can provide enough traffic to drive a route to LAS.

I'm forgetting this is KS though, not the most interesting or affluent state in the country. Perhaps I overstated that.

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
ICT and GRI can sustain service to AZA, so Phoenix as a destination is not the issue. I think the issue has more to do with MHK's inability to support air service - period.

Indeed.

G4 has a knack for making third tier routes to small cities in rural states work. If they can't make this work or if there are better opportunities elsewhere, that's somewhat telling. MHK only has regional legacy service to a couple of cities for a reason.
PHX based
 
usflyguy
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
K-State students want to go on Spring Break.

No one is going to run year-round flights to accommodate Spring Break travelers.

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
ICT and GRI can sustain service to AZA, so Phoenix as a destination is not the issue. I think the issue has more to do with MHK's inability to support air service - period.

MHK can support air service, just not one flight that is all O&D and no connections.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
kstateinALB
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:22 am

RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
I think the issue has more to do with MHK's inability to support air service - period.

Eh, I'll disagree with that. Inability to support a route that focuses 100% on O&D yes, that's apparent. But look at DFW and ORD; the support is there by and large. It's been a success story for AA, and there are cities here in the midwest that have utilized the success AA has had and lobbied for them to service their small regional airport (GCK, successfully, Stillwater, OK, unsuccessfully).

It wasn't a smart decision for G4 to start the route to AZA; right from the get-go people were not impressed, and quite frankly were disappointed that it wasn't LAS (G4) or DEN (UA). It wasn't a route people were going to be amped up about and make plans for.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 14):
DEN makes a lot of sense. That's what the business community wants, and service I think we could definitely sustain with even 2x daily service. The problem is that United opened their station at FOE, and from what I've been told, the loads so far are downright abysmal. I hope their FOE experiment doesn't scare them out of Kansas. The Q400 is the right airplane for DEN-MHK.

Need to bring back the old Frontier 737 DEN-FOE-MHK-SLN-DEN flights lol.

I always loved looking at the new timetables as they came out usually monthly then, to see where they were flying 737s to and how many of the milk-run routes were moved around.
Must have been tough being in schedule planning dept as in their mind they were probably so many months ahead compared to the current schedule at the time.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 19):
Need to bring back the old Frontier 737 DEN-FOE-MHK-SLN-DEN flights lol.

..oh it was so much better with a Convair 580 on those Kansas hopscotch!


DEN-GLD-HYS-SLN-MHK-TOP-MKC ( i believe Phillip Billard Field in TOP)--1967


But re: G4 , i wish they would have minimal presence in the GDS for flights only. Their visiblity would increase and possibly pick up more trafiic such as biz travlers, etc. not just package-driven business . Sunwings does this in Canada,. You wont find their loweist fares but at least you can purchase thru 3rd parties if you really need that flight for whatever reason
 
EricR
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RE: Allegiant To End AZA To MHK Service

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting kstateinALB (Reply 18):
Eh, I'll disagree with that. Inability to support a route that focuses 100% on O&D yes, that's apparent. But look at DFW and ORD; the support is there by and large.

But this topic is about G4's AZA-MHK route, and the AZA-MHK route is all about O&D. If you start to look at connecting service out of MHK, then that is a totally separate topic.

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