dtw2hyd
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FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:15 pm

FAA downgraded India's aviation safety rating.

Interesting to see how it will impact Boeing orders.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/in...ng-477793?pfrom=home-lateststories
 
G500
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:31 pm

India is very sensitive to this... They want to be seen as a leading emerging market
 
sankaps
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:37 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Thread starter):
Interesting to see how it will impact Boeing orders.

It will not impact Boeing orders. Not from the private carriers at least, Jet and SpiceJet, who currently operate Boeings.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:03 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 2):
It will not impact Boeing orders. Not from the private carriers at least, Jet and SpiceJet, who currently operate Boeings.

I can assure you there won't any Boeing aircraft registrations in India. AI remaining 13xB787s will be cancelled and Spice 40 and any Jet Airways.

The way I see it, if EU plays it well, it is a windfall for Airbus.

Reciprocity is the name of the game.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:45 pm

wowowowowowowowowow.

This is pretty big news. It definitely puts a major stint in the 9W-EY plans to grow more US operations out of AUH on 9W metal.

How will this affect the CPB situation at AUH???
 
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Revelation
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Reciprocity is the name of the game.

It'd be nice if safety was the name of the game, no?

We read:

Quote:

The areas of concern include better recruitment and training of professional and technical staff for India's aviation regulator, responsible for the safety of the country's airlines..

Seems to be pretty easy to resolve, no?

Also we read:

Quote:

The minister said 95 percent of issues raised by the FAA have been resolved, while the remainder were expected to be resolved by March

So it seems that the bulk of the concerns were valid and all are in the process of being addressed to the minister's satisfaction.
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Rishul93
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 4):
This is pretty big news. It definitely puts a major stint in the 9W-EY plans to grow more US operations out of AUH on 9W metal.

How will this affect the CPB situation at AUH???

Definitely affect the new JFK flight, as I don't think wet-leases are permitted either, unless, 9W lease out some of their 77Ws to EY to operate some of EY's non US 77W operated flights and inturn wet-lease some of EY's 77Ws to operate the JFK/ORD flights. Somehow I don't see EY co-operating that much.


Why will this affect the CPB situation in AUH?



Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
I can assure you there won't any Boeing aircraft registrations in India. AI remaining 13xB787s will be cancelled and Spice 40 and any Jet Airways.

The way I see it, if EU plays it well, it is a windfall for Airbus.

Reciprocity is the name of the game.

Regardless of the stand they take, they should rectify the faults. This isn't a rating that you can tolerate long-term.

What is the review process? DGCA is likely to finish hiring 75 odd safety inspectors by March, what is the procedure they follow once the needful is done? How long is it likely to take?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:26 pm

Here is the FAA press release:

Revised Safety Rating for India
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=15674

=

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
It'd be nice if safety was the name of the game, no?

  

Indians can be petty if they wish, but their priority should indeed be on safety, and figuring out how to rectify the identified deficiencies allowing them to meet the minimum international safety standards and practices for the benefit of their own citizens and own aviation sector.
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dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 6):
Definitely affect the new JFK flight

Just a new high in 9W route cancellations, cancel before first flight. JetFail +1.

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 6):
This isn't a rating that you can tolerate long-term.

AI has no aggressive expansion plans to US. Not many codeshares. 9W is EY's problem. AI entry into *A may not happen, or LH/SQ may go ahead without UA codeshares on AI flights.

Question is what EASA and others will do. FAA downgrade itself has very little impact.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
It'd be nice if safety was the name of the game, no?

There is no question about it but that opportunity is past. Allegedly cancelling orders is a proven technique to deal with FAA. A not to be named airline avoided major security concerns related to flight crew safety and representation using same technique.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 8):
Allegedly cancelling orders is a proven technique to deal with FAA.

You seem to think this is a game. It is not.

The US government let alone the FAA cannot be bullied in such manners.

To prove how the US does not care who the nation is, remember even Israel was downgraded for over 4-years and only in 2012 returned to compliance.


India can have childish retaliatory thoughts as you seems to encourage, at the end it will be the loser.
It needs to instead spend its time and energy fixing its own house instead of trying to take out its problems on others as diversionary technique.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:55 pm

Why must India retaliate on America as one poster suggest ?

Its not US fault, India cant even meet the minimum identified standards.

A more useful tact would be to double down on efforts to rectify all open deficiencies and work to regain basic compliance.
If anything maybe India needs to draw the US even closer, to gain its insight and good experiences to aid with this process.
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dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
You seem to think this is a game. It is not.

It is not a game, just a business decision. You take your business to someone ready to help not hurt. In current bilateral atmosphere any operator(private and public) will be hard pressed to do business. Unfortunately timing is bad.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
The US government let alone the FAA cannot be bullied in such manners.

It is not just view of India there are lot other countries questioning the bias. Again "alleged" is the key word.

[Edited 2014-01-31 08:08:31]
 
flyenthu
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:08 pm

India needs to take this seriously and comply. Not everything is a tit for tat issue- that approach indicates immaturity.
 
golfradio
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 8):
Question is what EASA and others will do. FAA downgrade itself has very little impact.

They will either folllow the FAA audit as the benchmark or demand their own access. This is a set back for India. It's open season for the other CAAs.

It would be in India's best interest to get back Cat 1.

Now India will have to either allow every CAA that wants to audit them, access or lose flying rights.
The assertion in the previous JCAB thread was that since the FAA had cleared India last September on the 787 safety issues, JCAB should accept it and not audit the DGCA again. And eventually that's what happened.
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a380787
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 6):
Definitely affect the new JFK flight, as I don't think wet-leases are permitted either, unless, 9W lease out some of their 77Ws to EY to operate some of EY's non US 77W operated flights and inturn wet-lease some of EY's 77Ws to operate the JFK/ORD flights. Somehow I don't see EY co-operating that much.

Please please please make the 2nd AUH-JFK daily on EY metal instead of 9W metal .... the hard product is simply better on the 9W one
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 11):
It is not just view of India there are lot other countries questioning the bias. Again "alleged" is the key word.

If the US government's bias toward India is the same as its bias toward Israel, perhaps India should order more Boeings . . .


Just saying.
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dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting golfradio (Reply 13):
The assertion in the previous JCAB thread was that since the FAA had cleared India last September on the 787 safety issues, JCAB should accept it and not audit the DGCA again. And eventually that's what happened.

It cleared ICAO audit and any country without an audit agreement has to accept ICAO audit or submit requests thru ICAO.

In recent past there is real effort to up the standards of ICAO audit and get rid of individual country audits which are allegedly biased.

Things changed quite a bit in recent past, India-US are at odds, India-Japan became real buddies. If EASA also downgrades, I think India will say "Welcome SSJ", there is not much need for wide bodies and SSJ starting production in India is real good possibility.

Unfortunately, I have to concede to lightsaber on AI B787 cancellation issue!!! I never thought US-India relationship will head south.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
If the US government's bias toward India is the same as its bias toward Israel, perhaps India should order more Boeings . . .

I would have said the same, but now-a-days India is not responding to bullying as expected.

[Edited 2014-01-31 09:29:10]
 
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mercure1
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 16):
Things changed quite a bit in recent past, India-US are at odds, India-Japan became real buddies. If EASA also downgrades, I think India will say "Welcome SSJ", there is not much need for wide bodies and SSJ starting production in India is real good possibility.

Instead of going out and correcting their safety deficiencies, why would India be so silly to draw itself in a corner?

I dont know, the picture you paint of India is a 7 year old child. I would think the nation is more adult, and this would be a wake up call to redouble its efforts into meeting these basic safety requirements.

If anything shame on India for allowing its aviation regulatory and safety compliance to fall into such shambles.


As far as EASA, yes under updated 2011 legislation, US IASA findings become part of the SAFA (Safety Assessment of Foreign Airlines) consultation and review process. At the very least Indian carriers and crews will be subject to heightened ramp inspections in the EU. Depending on findings this is part of the process towards the EU Black List.
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
The way I see it, if EU plays it well, it is a windfall for Airbus.

I would hope that the EU would first confirm the legitimacy of the FAA's concerns, and follow suit if there truly is a safety issue. It would be unsafe and rather dishonest to sacrifice safety conditions to win more Airbus orders.


Rgds,

Jonas  
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dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 17):
Instead of going out and correcting their safety deficiencies, why would India be so silly to draw itself in a corner?

India is doing everything FAA asked to do. Imagine paying 20 times more salary to a particular federal government position. India did that. Yet FAA went ahead with down grade.

As expected reciprocity is in motion.
Quote:
"Air India would constitute a committee to evaluate the performance of the 14 Boeing 787 Dreamliners it is set to add to its fleet by the end of the current financial year, before taking a final decision on induction of the remaining 13 aircraft on order for delivery by 2016."

http://www.business-standard.com/art...inducting-787s-114012901060_1.html
 
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:56 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 16):
I would have said the same, but now-a-days India is not responding to bullying as expected.

Unless you honestly believe that the US "bullies" Israel, how can you possibly characterize the downgrade as bullying?
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:16 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 19):
India is doing everything FAA asked to do. Yet FAA went ahead with down grade.

Clearly not. We would not be here if that was indeed the case.


Also such blanket statements sounds like this guy...



=

Listen at the end of the day India can jump up and down, huff and puff, play whatever retaliatory games, but it does not change the facts of what has happened.

So India has a choice, either get on with and fully correct all the identified deficiencies, and regain Cat-I standing in a few years, or languish in Cat-II while it huffs and puffs and blames it owns failures on others.

And as a point of references, there are currently 98 countries with IASA reviews, only 9 including India are in the Cat-II column. If 89 other nations can get their aviation safety houses in order, surely India can as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ordbosewr
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 19):
India is doing everything FAA asked to do.

Quote from FAA press release:
A December 2012 ICAO audit identified deficiencies in the ICAO-set global standards for oversight of aviation safety by India’s Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA).

Key point is the FAA waited over 13 months BEFORE downgrading India. So another way of saying is that India has not completed 100% of compliance in 13 months. hmm, if it was a priority they would have done it (all of it).

How long do you want the FAA to wait. At some point they need to do something.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
So India has a choice, either get on with and fully correct all the identified deficiencies, and regain Cat-I standing in a few years, or languish in Cat-II while it huffs and puffs and blames it owns failures on others.

Imagine this, current aviation minister worked for IBM and next aviation minister may be the one who kicked IBM out from India. If we lost the Diplomacy 101 book and poking at a democracy in election cycle you can expect weird results. Being the oldest democracy we should know better.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 22):
At some point they need to do something.

India is not a dictatorship and Indian aviation is not family run business. It will take as long as it takes. No one is questioning the downgrade. Similarly no one should question reciprocity.

[Edited 2014-01-31 10:33:54]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 23):
If we lost the Diplomacy 101 book and poking at a democracy in election cycle you can expect weird results.

We should worry about other countries' election cycles rather than the safety of their citizens and ours? What an odd position.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:41 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
We should worry about other countries' election cycles rather than the safety of their citizens and ours? What an odd position.

FAA downgrade has ZERO impact on Indian domestic sector which grew 12% last year. It is #9 market going to be #3. Do you think any other country will just downgrade and loose access to the market. Ultimately US carriers lost code shares and US aviation industry may loose contracts.

If India has no plans to expand US ops, it is business as usual.

[Edited 2014-01-31 10:42:07]
 
sankaps
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
I can assure you there won't any Boeing aircraft registrations in India. AI remaining 13xB787s will be cancelled and Spice 40 and any Jet Airways.

And you know this how???

You will be proved wrong about SpiceJet and Jet Airways. This will have ZERO impact on them and their Boeing orders. Air India, who knows. But not everyone in India is as knee-jerk and immature as you seem to wish them to be.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 26):

And you know this how???

You will be proved wrong about SpiceJet and Jet Airways. This will have ZERO impact on them and their Boeing orders. Air India, who knows. But not everyone in India is as knee-jerk and immature as you seem to wish them to be.


Being an expert in aircraft leasing, you should be aware every single aircraft purchase/lease has to be approved by GoI. First of all no one believes SpiceJet's order is real. It may be hard for SpiceJet to become an Airbus/CSeries/SSJ operator, but they will have no option if no one is approving the purchase/lease.

[Edited 2014-01-31 11:04:30]
 
eastern747
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:31 pm

I don't have any reason to visit India and don't ever plan to go. But if I did, I know AI would be my last choice. There are several world airlines I avoid, for various reasons, and safety is number one. AI should be banned from US airports until they clean up their act. NO FLY
 
xdlx
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):

And if not? Then what?... Maybe they buy some Sukoi or Tupolev.
India needs to grow up! Even IRAN flies BOEING...
 
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lightsaber
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:01 pm

Wow... All the DGCA had to do was pass the 2nd audit...(At least two prior ones failed.)
India was given 5 years to comply! Why this is like AI joining *A!   
The government approved the creation of 75 posts in the DGCA only yesterday, more than a month after the FAA had warned it of a downgrade.

What?!? The #1 issue was only addressed this week?!? Pure incompetence. The FAA expected that to be addressed months ago...

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

and:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...standards/articleshow/29654982.cms

I wonder if anything backtracked... This link notes the issues uncovered in 2009!
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bus...air-india-rajan-mehra_1035692.html

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):

India is very sensitive to this... They want to be seen as a leading emerging market

They should comply if they want to be an leading market.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
I can assure you there won't any Boeing aircraft registrations in India.

That is a trade war, pure and simple. Do you think for a second the FAA wouldn't start auditing Indian airlines even more intensely? Five years head start isn't enough for the GoI? Well, there is a problem...

I know too many people who want to roll back free trade (I don't) here in the USA. If India does anything, the heat will turn up.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Reciprocity is the name of the game.

That would be plain stupid. Think about it. Who has more to lose? The USA is helping India with the Rupee, what if that suddenly reversed?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
It'd be nice if safety was the name of the game, no?

It will be. The FAA has never backed down.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
You seem to think this is a game. It is not.

The US government let alone the FAA cannot be bullied in such manners.

Exactly. India would be hurt far faster than the USA. What if there was a TSA security alert to back office operations in India? Those have been quelled by overly ambitious underlings in the government. What if one were brought to the surface? I really hope the diplomats are far more professional.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Also such blanket statements sounds like this guy...

Why is he not selling me sugary drinks? I so want him selling me drinks or at least junk food!    But yes, it sounds like him...

Quoting sankaps (Reply 26):
You will be proved wrong about SpiceJet and Jet Airways. This will have ZERO impact on them and their Boeing orders. Air India, who knows. But not everyone in India is as knee-jerk and immature as you seem to wish them to be.

Agreed. But it has happened in the past where one set of diplomats sets in motion stupid events...

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 25):
FAA downgrade has ZERO impact on Indian domestic sector

You posted something I agree with...

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
We should worry about other countries' election cycles rather than the safety of their citizens and ours? What an odd position.

   Exactly. The US is now geared to positioning for the next election. The GoI can do what it wants, 99.9% of the US population won't even notice.

Lightsaber
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blrsea
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 28):
I don't have any reason to visit India and don't ever plan to go. But if I did, I know AI would be my last choice. There are several world airlines I avoid, for various reasons, and safety is number one. AI should be banned from US airports until they clean up their act. NO FLY

Er, how many accidents has AI had over the past few years compared to other airlines from developed countries? They may have bad management, but AI does follow safety standards and has a pretty good maintenance division.

I have seen you rant against AI often, but you seemed to have never flown on AI nor know much about it other than few adverse news report that come up once in a while.

Even WN has had some incidents which brought in bad publicity in recent past, but doesn't mean WN is not safe to fly!
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 29):
Maybe they buy some Sukoi

You are just 13 posts late.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 16):
I think India will say "Welcome SSJ",

Actually there is a proposal to produce SSJ100 in India. And its TDR is way better than...

Quoting xdlx (Reply 29):
India needs to grow up!

That's what India is doing. It may even prove FAA downgrade is no big deal. They may not even try to regain Cat-I. Then what.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 29):
Even IRAN flies BOEING...

And I think AI can sell 3x777-200 LRs to Iran. Easy for Iran because it has a bank account in India.
 
blrsea
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:11 pm

India is working on addressing the concerns. It recently announced creation of 75 new positions at DGCA for inspections etc. I believe FAA has another review scheduled for march, and India might clear it at that time.

The DGCA being a government arm, things move slowly. So it will be another 3-6 months for DGCA to be compliant with FAA requirements.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 32):
That's what India is doing. It may even prove FAA downgrade is no big deal. They may not even try to regain Cat-I. Then what.

But they are trying to regain Cat-I, so why argue about silly hypotheticals?
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lightsaber
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 32):
They may not even try to regain Cat-I. Then what.

Why wouldn't they try? We're just talking about improving inspections.
Seriously, when told to correct something 5 years ago... do it for safety sake!

Aviation follows a process. I couldn't imagine all Indian airlines never wanting to expand again to the USA.

And don't forget this impacts code shares (no new code shares to the USA). This has a huge impact on AI and 9W due to the code shares.

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dtw2hyd
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
But they are trying to regain Cat-I, so why argue about silly hypotheticals?

It is not a hypothetical. You never know which nut job is going to come into power in India. Timing is absolutely wrong. It is much easier to push current administrator to become complaint in 2 months than not happening forever.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 35):
Why wouldn't they try? We're just talking about improving inspections.
Seriously, when told to correct something 5 years ago... do it for safety sake!

Hope you read the FAA press release. In summary it says we commend India for their efforts but we downgraded anyway.

There may a tussle between India and FAA. India is leading the effort to improve ICAO audit and avoid individual audits. ICAO APAC head is an GoI official. So FAA may be feeling the heat.

BTW, congratulations, your wish came true about AI cancelling remaining 13 birds. I argued it will never happen, but I was wrong.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 36):
It is much easier to push current administrator to become complaint in 2 months than not happening forever.

You can only do that so many times, and the amount of leeway the FAA has already given India is extraordinary. At some point, you have already applied all the pressure you can, and have to take the next step. It looks like this tactic is getting the GOI to take the issue more seriously, so from the FAA's perspective it's working.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 33):
So it will be another 3-6 months for DGCA to be compliant with FAA requirements.

And I'm sure at that point the FAA will upgrade India, and life will go on.

India has far too much to lose to engage in tit-for-tat retaliation. You might notice that AI took delivery of a 787 a couple days ago and is flying it to DEL this very afternoon.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
The way I see it, if EU plays it well, it is a windfall for Airbus.


The EASA is just as concerned with non-compliance with ICAO requirements as the FAA is. What happens if the EASA follows the FAA in the IA downgrade?
 
ytz
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RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:00 pm

Suggestion that AI or any other Indian carrier will cancel orders is laughable. First, they'll pay penalties to cancel the orders. Next, they lose all negotiating leverage with Airbus since Boeing isn't in the context.

And AI will never get the kind of deal they got on the 787s again. I'd bet that Boeing would gladly cancel the order and sell to a higher margin client.
 
SQ325
Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:05 pm

I think most intl. Pilots will second that India ist one the most challenging countries to fly to or through! I always feel like I am in Nigeria.

It seems like they are lacking everything, infrastructure, equipment, training and discipline and they have way to much traffic!

So I am not really surprised! But Rome wasn' t build on one day either  
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 7673
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 37):
India has far too much to lose to engage in tit-for-tat retaliation. You might notice that AI took delivery of a 787 a couple days ago and is flying it to DEL this very afternoon.

With downgrade it cannot start new US service, hence there is no need for new deliveries. It will complete 14 deliveries, funding for next 13 has to be appropriated in the next budget.

With new FAA gig in the news every parliamentary member will fight back against funding to an American company.

Even if AI wants and needs it cannot get approval.

Somehow we try preach democracy to rest of the world but lack basic understanding how the process works.

[Edited 2014-01-31 13:55:29]
 
ETinCaribe
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:57 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:40 pm

To me, this is a sad story. Simply because the outrage is directed at the wrong entity, it is not the FAA but the Indian government who dropped the ball. My prescription is to locate and find the EGO OFF button, press firmly on it, then roll up your sleeves and work to pass the audits.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 25):
Ultimately US carriers lost code shares and US aviation industry may loose contracts.
Quoting DTW2HYD (Thread starter):
Interesting to see how it will impact Boeing orders.

And thank goodness the OEMs and carriers have no (or very little) say here. It is always good news when the ref (not unlike your favorite sport) is not associated with or swayed by the teams he is supposed to rule over.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 32):
And I think AI can sell 3x777-200 LRs to Iran. Easy for Iran because it has a bank account in India.

You mean the same 77L AI has been trying to offload for years now? If anything, Iranians have proven to be very wise negotiators, so if they buy, it will be at a discounted price.
 
bharathkv
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:58 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:56 pm

When FAA talks about flight personnel and others I just want FAA to check out some air-hostess of United Airlines and American Airlines before commenting on other countries. I wonder, if there is an issue in an aircraft, will the air-hostess who is 60+ years old and not very agile be able to help other passengers. One who I met in my recent Swiss trip was so old that I cannot believe the airline allows her to fly. When US has so many faults like Airline unions etc blaming that India is not meeting standards is typical US Government hypocrisy.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Thread starter):
FAA downgraded India's aviation safety rating.

Interesting to see how it will impact Boeing orders.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/in...ng-477793?pfrom=home-lateststories


all the comments actually seem to support the downgrade. This is good, now it will force the DGCA to get things in order. DTW, as an Indian, you should be supporting this cause this is the only way anyone over there will do anything.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
You seem to think this is a game. It is not.

Politics is a game. It always has been.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1681
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting bharathkv (Reply 43):

When FAA talks about flight personnel and others I just want FAA to check out some air-hostess of United Airlines and American Airlines before commenting on other countries. I wonder, if there is an issue in an aircraft, will the air-hostess who is 60+ years old and not very agile be able to help other passengers. One who I met in my recent Swiss trip was so old that I cannot believe the airline allows her to fly. When US has so many faults like Airline unions etc blaming that India is not meeting standards is typical US Government hypocrisy.

Here we go, the typical "lets blame somebody else game". DGCA needs to get things in order, then lets talk about whatever supposed problems we have over here. If that 60 year old flight attendant can do what is asked of him or her, then its fine by me. There is no hypcrisy. The FAA doesnt play politics. This isnt India man, seriously.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 46):
he FAA doesnt play politics. This isnt India man, seriously.

whoa, lets not get carried away, FAA isn't lily white! Nor is India the only place where politics is played  

But having said that , going by news reports, it appears that Indian government is trying to make up for the shortfalls. One of the major reasons for the downgrade is that there aren't sufficient independent inspectors who can sign off on aircraft and airlines adherence to safety measures.

The government has recently approved creating 75 new positions. There is also the Civil Aviation Authority bill pending in parliament.

Overall, the sense seems to be that while they will push towards adherence to standards, there is no immediate fallout for Indian carriers. There might be additional safety audits for Indian carriers in US, but that is pretty much about it.
 
hohd
Posts: 809
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:50 pm

India seems to be in the habit for waiting till the last minute. AI's first entry to Star was botched, Star gave AI three different extensions, but no one in AI took it seriously until the last time. Same here, they were warned 13 months ago that there could be a possible downgrade, but again no one took in seriously, they almost dared the FAA to downgrade.

India should realize that not everything is biased or political, the FAA inspectors take their jobs seriously, they are willing to give some allowance, but they wont wait forever for it to be rectified. Although I must admit the skies in India are safer than it was 20 to 30 years ago.
 
bharathkv
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:58 pm

RE: FAA Downgrades India

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 46):
The FAA doesnt play politics. This isnt India man, seriously.

You are right about US isn't India. Of course FAA does a lot of politics just like any other government organization. At least FAA can be open that about doing the downgrade on basis of politics.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 46):
If that 60 year old flight attendant can do what is asked of him or her, then its fine by me. There is no hypcrisy.

LOL. Actually in an emergency lets see if you agree with me or the government. There is just too much unionization in airlines (India and US. I am not blaming just US) and lets be honest here to say that the rules are flexed and changed according to unions.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 46):
DGCA needs to get things in order, then lets talk about whatever supposed problems we have over here.

I agree on the decision if its based on real issues and if it does not have any politics. Also FAA and DGCA have acknowledged that they will work together to sort out the issues. My point is that saying "there is no politics involved" is just not true and when US airlines have so many flaws on personnel and others blaming other foreign carriers for lack of training is just pure hypocrisy.

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