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LAXintl
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Turkish Aviation February 2014

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 pm

Merhaba everyone. Another month another thread.

For those in the Northern Hemisphere I hope you are all staying warm.

A brief summary of some January highlights:
o Traffic numbers were published for Turkish Airports and no surprise a record year. IST easily swept past MAD is now in the #5 spot for Europe, with only about 1 million passenger separation from Amsterdam. Quite conceivable that #3 Frankfurt could also be passed in a couple years.
o TK is also coming off a record year and is staring to firm up is summer schedule. More frequencies and a few more points - Cotonou, Pisa, Varna,
o TK continues to shop for widebody leases. Sounds like nothing official came of LOT 787 talks.
o Talks of a new Northern Cyprus Airline - Karpas - by former KTHY employee union. However minister of Public Works and Transportation says he knows of no such venture.
o Management shakeups continue at Onur Air. New owners bring in former TK VP as new Chief Commercial officer.


For photo wanted to share one of the recently delivered 2nd A320 for Pegasus.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mehmet Mustafa Celik - SpotTR


For now the pair of PC A320s seem to be dedicated solely on domestic ops. I'm sure as the fleet grows with operational experience they will venture onto Europe as well.

=


One question I wanted to start the month out with was as result of recent economic events, I was wondering how the weakening Turkish Lira could effect airlines, particularly the domestic players as their incomes are predominately TL based but they have significant currency exposures as large expenses are in hard currencies?
Also will a weakening TL reduce passenger demand as it becomes more expensive to travel overseas? (though it could further boost inbound tourism sector).


Anyhow, welcome all and look forward to hearing your comments this month.   
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
For photo wanted to share one of the recently delivered 2nd A320 for Pegasus.

Nice with the sharklets.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
One question I wanted to start the month out with was as result of recent economic events, I was wondering how the weakening Turkish Lira could effect airlines,

Was wondering the same thing myself. With 3 TRY to 1 EUR / 2.2 TRY to USD 1 its great for tourists but not great for business deals outside.

The same is happening with ANA in Japan I read today as the Yen falls.
 
bahadir
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:22 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
One question I wanted to start the month out with was as result of recent economic events, I was wondering how the weakening Turkish Lira could effect airlines,

Was wondering the same thing myself. With 3 TRY to 1 EUR / 2.2 TRY to USD 1 its great for tourists but not great for business deals outside.

The same is happening with ANA in Japan I read today as the Yen falls.

I have a feeling like both TK and PC have the strongest position on this. Their number of connecting pax is higher than other competitors; those customers pay in foreign currency vs. TL.
Earthbound misfit I
 
tozbek
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:11 am

Pegasus carried 16,8 million passenger in 2013: http://kokpit.aero/pegasus-2013-numbers
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:29 am

according to www.kokpit.aero, TC-JDN will be retired, 3 earlier A340s will be retired as well and remaing 3 will be converted to 360 seaters.
Without A340s, budgeted 54 wb for 2014 will be risky, so timing is important and Jets 77w as well
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:40 pm

The A340s are subject to rumours for many years now. I only believe it when they make it.
An all economy A340 does not make really sense to me, since they have a still superior J cabin than the leased A332s.
Instead, the A332 (JNF and JNG) should be converted to all economy and used as described on domestic and Hajj ops.
 
Steelyman
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 5):
An all economy A340 does not make really sense to me, since they have a still superior J cabin than the leased A332s.

And most probably are almost twice as expensive as well...

IMHO it makes sense to make high density planes for HAJJ operations, crowded domestic flights and even some special charters...
BRGDS, Mike
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:23 pm

In my opinion TK needs to separate its domestic and mid-long haul ops.
They should have more high dense planes for domestic and short flights of up to 2 hours. To do so, their new airport needs to becomed available, so that long haul equipment does not have layover in IST for a couple of hours when arriving from the far east in the early morning hours. Atm this is not possible due to timings and planes are instead of sitting around used on rotations for ESB and ADB.
 
Steelyman
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:26 pm

Actually many of the WB's which come from Asia in the morning are used for european rotations (FRA, LON, PAR) and in S14 many more are to come (BCN, MAD...)
BRGDS, Mike
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:02 pm

I did a little research on the currency issue;

For TK I think for the most part be OK, but carriers like Pegasus and other domestic players could be more negatively effected.

In TK's specific case, per their financial reports only 14% of earnings are in TL while 26% of expenses are in TL's, so that is actually positive place to be. In addition like fuel hedging, TK has a multiyear currency hedge program also so sharp changes can likely be mitigated even more.

For Pegasus however its quite a bit different. TL revenues are 45% of earnings, but nearly 70% of expenses are in non TL currencies, the bulk being for aircraft finance and operating leases plus fuel. PC says it also maintains a currency hedge program but I was unable to find too much details about how long or how much it might be covered.

Of course, any changes in traffic demand or consumer behavior could be problematic.

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 5):
The A340s are subject to rumours for many years now. I only believe it when they make it.
An all economy A340 does not make really sense to me, since they have a still superior J cabin than the leased A332s.
Instead, the A332 (JNF and JNG) should be converted to all economy and used as described on domestic and Hajj ops.

The reason the A340s are more suitable is;
1) They are owned and paid for
2) Their utilization does not matter much. If they sit around so be it.

For the A332, the lease meter is running, so the aircraft need to be kept busy to pay for themselves. Also TK would incur additional expenses as they must return the aircraft to their original conditions at the end of the lease, so they would require yet another cabin reconfiguration.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:25 pm

dear all,
let 'speculate: what would ne next WB order, when, how many and which type.
I see a good chance for 788/789 and I assume better delivery slots ara aviable at B rather than A.
any bet
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:02 pm

I don't know whether the 779 is going to be as successful as its precedessor. It is going to be 30tons or more heavy than the 351 to offer only 30 more seats. I think A will launch another variant (3511) if the 779 gets more orders and the chance to return for B is over.

However, the 787 and A350 programs will surely be ordered by them.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:07 am

Interesting that Antalya and Istanbul are both in the dozen top visited city destinations in the world.

CNN story (with link to global top-100 list)
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/29/travel/euromonitor-travel-cities/

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:36 am

Greetings from KUL.

I came yesterday on A343 - TK60 with 70% business class and 90% economy class loads. 75% of the travelers were Europeans and perhaps 10% were only Turkish. Looking at the loads, TK is right to increase frequency to daily on IST-KUL sector.

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 5):
The A340s are subject to rumours for many years now. I only believe it when they make it.

In general TK A343s are in good condition. However they are not any more on par with new generation WB aircrafts. Their AVOD is old technology, business class seats are not comfortable enough for the price you pay.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Interesting that Antalya and Istanbul are both in the dozen top visited city destinations in the world.

I think this list is very interesting. Here are some of the selected cities:

6 Kuala Lumpur Malaysia

9 Antalya Turkey
10 Paris France
11 Istanbul Turkey
12 Rome Italy
13 Dubai UAE

16 Mecca Saudi Arabia

48 Seoul South Korea
49 Muğla Turkey
50 Mumbai India

59 Munich Germany
60 Johannesburg South Africa
61 Cancún Mexico
62 Edirne Turkey

73 East Province (Dammam) Saudi Arabia

86 Abu Dhabi UAE
87 Kiev Ukraine
88 Doha Qatar

93 Riyadh Saudi Arabia

It is very interesting to see Edirne as Number 62! Very difficult for me to explain other than transit passengers to/from Europe and border trade.

Number 49 Mugla: If they are refering to Province of Mugla, only tourists coming by Air to BJV and DLM are 5M. So actual position of Mugla has to be higher.

More interestingly Abu Dhabi and Doha are listed in the bottom of the list though they spend crazy money for advertisement.

And finally, I would like to refer to KSA cities which are interestingly on Top-100. Mecca is very understandable but Riyadh and Dammam are impossible for me to explain. Who will go there as a tourist? Being a regular visiter to both of these cities, I can say that all travelers are either businessman or expats working there.
The future is in the skies.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting ist2014 (Reply 10):
dear all,
let 'speculate: what would ne next WB order, when, how many and which type.
I see a good chance for 788/789 and I assume better delivery slots ara aviable at B rather than A.
any bet

I can imagine the A359 as an substitute for the A343. Maybe 20 of them. Then they need to wait for the new airport to open. Seems impossible to operate more than 80 WBs out of IST.

When the new airport opens i would love them to order 100+ Bombardier CSs
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:29 pm

Pegasus continues to grow -

Frankfurt and Madrid will be added to route network effective March 22nd and March 24th respectively.

Was surprised to see PC managed to achieve slots at FRA especially good timed midday ones. FRA becomes their 7th German city.

http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/peg...urt-and-madrid-to-its-network.html

Quoting TK105 (Reply 13):
Number 49 Mugla: If they are refering to Province of Mugla, only tourists coming by Air to BJV and DLM are 5M. So actual position of Mugla has to be higher.

I think you need to divide that 5M as the DHMI number represents both arrival and departure(gelen-giden) count. The website ranking is based on visitors(arrivals).

Quoting TK105 (Reply 13):
Riyadh and Dammam are impossible for me to explain. Who will go there as a tourist?

Don't know about Riyadh, but Damman gets regular flow of traffic across the bridge from Bahrain. Also Damman is heart of the petrol industry in the Eastern province so I could see it becomes the gateway to come and go from.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TK773ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:41 am

According to this article TK is putting it's plans to fly to Australia on hold again, The airline {as i understand the article} wants to make Australia rather a direct service then a one stop and is waiting for extra long range planes to joins it's fleet ? What long range planes is TK talking about ? At this stage TK would rather expand in American and African markets here is the link http://www.ausbt.com.au/turkish-airl...back-on-planned-australian-flights

Selamlar
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:48 am

logical decision. it would not be competitive unless being non stop.
my question : what does a while mean, unless ordering 77L, at least 5 years to have 789 or 350 (359 does not have e ough leg)
i assume 779 has enough leg
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:57 am

As aircraft performance 1 stop 333 flight will be very good start point. 333 is good for 10-11 hour legs than,,IST is much better than DXB about connection adding 2 hour technical stop does not hurt attractiviness of IST
 
tozbek
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:46 am

Good news... 305 workers turning back to THY!
http://kokpit.aero/rehiring-turkish-airlines-305-workers
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:20 am

Quoting MeCe (Reply 18):

As aircraft performance 1 stop 333 flight will be very good start point. 333 is good for 10-11 hour legs than,,IST is much better than DXB about connection adding 2 hour technical stop does not hurt attractiviness of IST

Totally agree. We have to accept that TK will not have the airplane at least for another 3 years which will be suitable for a direct flight. In this regard A333 will provide good economy for such a one-stop routing. With a single frame, 3 weekly frequency can be achieved.

BKK will be the perfect position for mid-stop as it is almost in the middle and only extends a direct IST-SYD flight by 38mi. So it can take the best out of A333.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ist-bkk,+bkk-syd,+ist-syd

Even for IST-MEL routing, BKK still is a good location for mid-stop:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ist-bkk,+bkk-mel,+ist-mel

As I remember my experience for IST-BKK-HKG (old routing of TK, 10 years back), a stop at BKK even helps.

By the way, in this month's Skylife magazine Mr Kotil says in his column that TK will open 16 new routes in 2014 which 2 are domestic. Though we already know some of them, lets start the speculations for the 14 international new routes.  
The future is in the skies.
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:57 pm

havana,caracas,mexico,bogota are my speculations. boston and montreal already announced
 
santos
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:05 pm

IST-LIS to be increased from 7x Weekly to 10x Weekly from 1st April.
TK started LIS in May 2008 with 3x Weekly flights.

2013 passenger numbers up +18,1% on 2012 numbers and +58,1% on 2011

http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=45980
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting ist2014 (Reply 21):
havana,caracas,mexico,bogota

That is the most desirable and TK staff back those cities up too.     
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:57 pm

I see both Sun Express and Anadolujet will also utilize the new economy seats being built by Turkish Technic.

First aircraft equipped will enter service on February 17th with 25 aircraft equipped with 4,125 new seats by end of May.
During the first year Turkish Technic plans to produce about 10,000 seats with eventual production rising to as high as 30,000.

The new seats are about 30% lighter then the models they replace, and cost about 40% less. TK itself plans to equip its full Airbus and Boeing narrowbody fleets with the new seats by July 2015.

Quoting TK105 (Reply 20):
Though we already know some of them, lets start the speculations for the 14 international new routes

Cotonou, Pisa, Varna also announced.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:16 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):

The new seats are about 30% lighter then the models they replace, and cost about 40% less. TK itself plans to equip its full Airbus and Boeing narrowbody fleets with the new seats by July 2015.

There are articles mentioning that one A330 has also been equipped with the new seats, which I hope is false. The new seats are comparable to LH's NEK and only suitable to short journeys.

I really wish them good luck with their new venture and hope they will add in a couple of years J seats too.

TK is also partnering with Havelsan to develop an own IFE system. That would really be amazing if they could innovate in this field and differentiate themselves from the competition.

[Edited 2014-02-05 13:17:57]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:26 am

Regarding the IFE, TK just selected the Thales TopSeries AVANT line which will be installed in 45 aircraft under a 10-year agreement.
Whats interesting about this system is that its android based and scalable allowing for differentiation of offering between classes.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:23 am

Quoting ist2014 (Reply 21):

havana,caracas,mexico,bogota are my speculations. boston and montreal already announced
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
Cotonou, Pisa, Varna also announced.

I try to make a summary.

Domestic:
Sinop
Hakkari

International (Already Announced):
BOS - Boston
YUL - Montreal
RTM - Rotterdam

International (Official Wish List - According to BIST filings):
COO - Cotonou (Benin)
VAR - Varna (Bulgaria)
ASF - Astrakhan (Russia)
STW - Stavropol
CTA - Catania (Italy)
PSA - Pisa
ORN - Oran (Algeria)
CZL - Constantine
TLM - Tiemcen
BLJ - Batna
KSF - Kassel (Germany)
FMO - Munster
NTE - Nantes (France)
AWZ - Ahwaz (Iran)

International (Unofficial Wish List - Named by TK Management to press or listed in internal reports):
HAV - Havana (Cuba)
CCS - Caracas (Venezuela)
MEX - Mexico City (Mexico)
BOG - Bogota (Colombia)
SFO - San Francisco (USA)
MIA - Miami
ATL - Atlanta
SYD - Sydney (Australia)
MEL - Melbourne
MCX - Mahachkala (Russia)
NAL - Nalchik
MNL - Manila (Philippines)
LXR - Luxor (Egypt)
ASW - Aswan
HRK - Kharkiv (Ukraine)
KRK - Krakow (Poland)
ABH - Abha (KSA)
LLK - Lenkaran (Azerbaijan)
Additional African & Indian Airports

What an ambitious list!.. Even going over it made me tired.  
The future is in the skies.
 
TurkishSky
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 27):

Astrakhan and Stavropol have already been announced.
Flown 0B 4I 9U A3 AA AB AF AZ BA BD BR CA CU CX EI EK FR HV JK JP JU KK KL KM LH LX MA ME MS NG OA OK QR OS RJ RO SA SK SQ SR SU UA VY YM
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:52 pm

Due to pressure from the global tourism trade and airlines Turkey have relaxed their introduction of the E Visa policy and it will now not enforce mandatory E Visa before arrival in April as planned. Major Tour Operators were also worried about the impact on their customers in the busy Summer period. Also cruise passengers will not need a visa unless they intend to embark or disembark at a Turkish port. If the ship is calling into a Turkish port in the middle of a cruise then the visa will not be needed.

This certainly makes more sense to have a longer transition period.


http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/tkvisa_zps0b3f7d1f.jpg
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:04 pm

So the legend continues....  

DHMI's newly published January 2014 passenger figures show that 2014 will at least keep the performance of 2013:

Turkey +22.3%

IST +15% (+16% Int)
SAW +46% (+52% Int) …………………..Waawww
ESB +21% (+23% Dom)
ADB +14% (+26% Int)
AYT +10%

Looks like 59-60M year-end passenger target for TK may become true. If it continues like this, we can see Pegasus in Euro Top-10 soon, too.
The future is in the skies.
 
TK739ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:34 pm

Breaking news, Pegasus' Flight 751 HRK-SAW been hijacked, according to news reports hijacker demanded the plane to land Sochi. After the pilots declared an emergency, flight continued to SAW accompanied by an F16, safely landed and parked in a remote spot at SAW. Airport has been blackened and all other activity stopped to give the hijacker the impression that they landed at Sochi. Swat teams are waiting for the opportunity to get into the plane.
According to the news reports, after the landing one of the pilots confirmed that everyone was safe so far but it's been more than 2 hours since that confirmation.


http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/25759679.asp
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:04 pm

For fun here are som market share O&D statistics on various larger international routes from Istanbul.
Info is for 12-months ending June 2013.

Legend is:
Route / Total O&D Pax / Top carriers and market share percent
IST-ALA / 156,817 / KC 54%, TK 45%
IST-ALG / 267,209 / AH 53%, TK 46%
IST-AMM / 176,860 / TK 53%, RJ 43%
IST-AMS / 334,192 / TK 46%, KL 24%, PC 19%
IST-ATH / 393,618 / TK 43%, A3 40%, OA 15%
IST-BAK / 285,106 / TK 81%, J2 18%
IST-BCN / 173,789 / TK 68%, IB 29%
IST-BER / 313,135 / TK 79%, PC 7%, LH 6%, XQ 5%
IST-BEY / 211,833 / ME 43%, TK 37%, PC 9%
IST-BRU / 271,949 / TK 81%, PC 13%
IST-CAI / 224,704 / TK 59%, MS 39%
IST-CGN / 108,642 / TK 59%, LH 13%, PC 12%, XQ 7%
IST-CHI / 106,184 / TK 71%, LH 10%, BA 5%
IST-CPH / 124,961 / TK 85%
IST-DUS / 326,977 / TK 70%, PC 8%, LH 7%, XQ 5%
IST-DXB / 345,325 / EK 51%, TK 42%
IST-FRA / 550,405 / TK 49%, LH 41%, XQ 5%
IST-GVA / 117,135 / TK 80%, LX 14%
IST-HAM / 167,797 / TK 77%, LH 14%
IST-IEV / 205,009 / VV 52%, TK 46%
IST-JED / 167,018 / TK 67%, SV 29%
IST-LED / 109,964 / FV 42%, TK 36%, SU 11%
IST-LON / 777,804 / TK 60%, BA 27%
IST-MAD / 224,102 / TK 50%, IB 41%
IST-MIL / 282,677 / TK 84%, AZ 12%
IST-MOW / 577,283 / TK 52%, SU 43%
IST-MUC / 431,988 / TK 53%, LH 39%, PC 5%
IST-NYC / 395,229 / TK 58%, DL 17%, UA 12%, LH 5%
IST-ODS / 128,099 / VV 61%, TK 31%
IST-OTP / 205,844 / TK 59% / RO 40%
IST-PAR / 578,576 / TK 46%, AF 30%, PC 7%, LX 7%, LH 6%
IST-PRG / 102,797 / TK 93%
IST-ROM / 208,241 / TK 57%, AZ 34%
IST-RUH / 108,451 / TK 77%, SV 14%
IST-SEL / 154,274 / TK 46%, OZ 41%
IST-STR / 213,142 / TK 84%, PC 7%, XQ 5%
IST-THR / 255,740 / TK 58%, IR 34%
IST-TLV / 195,093 / TK 94%
IST-TUN / 241,171 / TK 57%, TU 41%
IST-TYO / 165,488 / TK 59%
IST-VIE / 237,789 / TK 63%, OS 28%
IST-ZRH / 265,075 / TK 49%, LX 39%


For info I only listed routes with 100,000+ annual local enplanements (hopefully I did not miss any), and carriers that had 5%+ of market share.

(remember these are local O&D numbers, which does not include transfer passengers. Also it only covers scheduled service, not charters)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
B747forever
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):
For info I only listed routes with 100,000+ annual local enplanements (hopefully I did not miss any), and carriers that had 5%+ of market share.

Surprised that ARN didnt make the list with 3 daily flights.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 33):
Surprised that ARN didnt make the list with 3 daily flights.

Again we are only speaking about O&D traffic, not transit. IST-STO total market was only 90,333 during the period.

Likely much of the Stockholm traffic continue beyond Istanbul whether to another foreign port, or a domestic destination hence not counted.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:39 am

Just landed on TK61 KUL-IST and waiting for my connection to ESB.

I had a very bad business class experience on TK61. I always like male F/A on TK as they are hard working and respecting. Unfortunately this time I had 35+ female F/A crew with a female flying chef, what a bad combination! On airlines like LH, KL, 35+ female F/As become symbol of experience and professionalism. However on TK case, they become KAŞAR only. I do not know how TK will become 5* while its cabin crew has working style of JU.

Here is a short list (unbelievable):
- Purser did not show up at all, probably just slept through out the flight
- When the soup is served, F/A said that they do not have any soup spoons and we have to use tea spoons for soup
- During the flight while I was asleep one of the crew member felt free to take my flight kit distributed at the beginning of flight
- Before landing when they served breakfast, I received a fruit plater which grapes were partly eaten.
- All flight long, crew gossiped loudly
- Young members of F/A crew get a lot of pressure from 35+ ones. When we were grounding, younger F/As were crying (!).

On an other note, for TK61 flight I was on TC-JDJ Sarikamis, which is probably the oldest plane on TK fleet (from 1993). However the cabin interior is really very very good though plane is 20+ years old. Everything was functioning perfectly (AVOD, internal lighting, business class seats, etc). I keep on mentioning this for A343 fleet of TK but TK maintenance department is doing a very good job.
The future is in the skies.
 
northstar80
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 35):
- When the soup is served, F/A said that they do not have any soup spoons and we have to use tea spoons for soup
Quoting TK105 (Reply 35):
- Before landing when they served breakfast, I received a fruit plater which grapes were partly eaten.

This made my day, I have been laughing hard since the moment I read it. He wasnt playing with you, was he?
 
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OA260
Posts: 25050
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:34 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 35):
. I do not know how TK will become 5* while its cabin crew has working style of JU.

Although JU is Air Serbia which now has a very decent product so far on the new aircraft. Crew are chalk and cheese from the old Jat/JAT days .

Its a shame that consistency is still an issue. I have been lucky so far. My recent 4 TK flights were all fine. Just the transit experience at IST still is as mad and manic as ever! They really need to double if not triple the amount of scanners for flight connections before you re enter the departures area. Either that or increase the min connection times as its not enough.
 
B747forever
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
Again we are only speaking about O&D traffic, not transit. IST-STO total market was only 90,333 during the period.

Likely much of the Stockholm traffic continue beyond Istanbul whether to another foreign port, or a domestic destination hence not counted.

I see. Just thought the O&D would be bigger than it is. We have quite a few large Turkish communities in the suburbs of Stockholm. But, as you say they may connect to other domestic points.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
northstar80
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:06 pm

So, I flew A330s TC-JNV and TC-JNG to Dubai and back last week.

Both planes were very tired interior wise. JNG has old style TK seats (light blue). No IFE.

JNV had some other carriers interior. Maybe MEA. This plane had filthy seats and armrests and needs serious makeup. Had a crappy IFE system, tiny no-touch screens, and the controller was so dirty that there was no way I could touch it. Most of the IFE screens were not working and required multiple resets. Flightshow didnt work. Although both planes are A332s, they had different seat layouts. During the checkin, the guy told my friend that he gave him an exit seat (row 9), and later we found out that exit was row 5.

Seriously, TK needs to make major changes if they want to compete EK. In addition to consistency problems, the check-in and boarding procedure sucks. The flight is at 820 am. I checked in at 7 am. On the boarding card, it says that boarding is at 7:20. We go to the gate. Wait 1 hour for boarding. Apparently the flight is delayed, but there is no announcement/nothing no delay notifications on the screens. Just empty silent waiting.

I love TK, and I am a big fan, and I am proud of them. However, lets face it, being a 5* airline is a dream, and I think 4* is even sometimes too much for TK.
 
HB-IWC
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:31 am

This article (in French) suggests that TK will start operations to Mauritius and Antananarivo, Madagascar in October. Still according to the article, three or four weekly flights are proposed:

http://www.lexpress.mu/article/turkish-airlines-debarque-maurice
 
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TK105
Posts: 614
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:23 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 40):
This article (in French) suggests that TK will start operations to Mauritius and Antananarivo, Madagascar in October. Still according to the article, three or four weekly flights are proposed:

Great news. TK has to spread its web all around the globe.

Let me remind what I wrote back in August:

Quoting TK105, (Reply=40, Turkish Aviation August 2013):

Greetings from MRU. I would like to share my observations:

Mauritius is getting around 1M tourists annually where almost all of them come here by plane. Around 75% of tourists are from Europe and composition is increasing for East Europe especially Russia. Almost all tourists are high income people and they spend more than half of their budget for air travel to come here. Currently EK (2daily), SA, AF, MD and of course MK are the main operators down here.

I think TK can enter to this market, especially to attract high income travelers from all over Europe and Russia. I suppose that mostly these travels take 2 stop flights to come here which may be a benefit for TK due to vast European coverage of TK as TK can offer them 1 stop connection and shorter overall flight time.

This flight can also be tagged to TNR provided that IST-MRU is directly connected and TNR is a tag to MRU.

Compared to MLE, this flight can have larger passenger volume and (probably) higher yield for TK.

I also think that, similar to MLE and MRU, SEZ also has a big high-end tourism potential and TK should also consider that as well.
The future is in the skies.
 
PieterBoth
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:49 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:41 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 40):
This article (in French) suggests that TK will start operations to Mauritius and Antananarivo, Madagascar in October. Still according to the article, three or four weekly flights are proposed:

http://www.lexpress.mu/article/turkish-airlines-debarque-maurice

Yes, you probably saw the thread I started yesterday:

Turkish Airlines To TNR And MRU? (by PieterBoth Feb 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Perhaps I should have posted in this thread too.

Quoting TK105 (Reply 41):
This flight can also be tagged to TNR provided that IST-MRU is directly connected and TNR is a tag to MRU.

I agree. Though I think the article states that the flights will be via Madagascar first, with possibility of operating direct flights between Turkey and Mauritius in the future.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5059
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):

For fun here are som market share O&D statistics on various larger international routes from Istanbul. .

Interesting and thanks for posting.

I can see why Lufthansa has negative views of TK now. Look at all the German markets (especially outside FRA/MUC), TK dominates them.

What this shows is that TK clearly can garner good volume of beyond traffic also from these secondary yet large German markets.

Even at hubs like FRA/MUC TK manages stronger market share than LH.

Loss of this connecting flow I think is what is hurting LH the most. As clients in Germany chose TK to reach places in Asia, MidEast, etc, LH becomes the primary loser of that client.
mercure f-wtcc
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1268
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:24 pm

Does anyone know or have heard about advanced bookings on IST-BOS-IST route. I am sure TK will get passengers wishing to fly to the middle east,india and africa. Any chance within a year or so the route could be flown by the 777-300ER?
 
ist2014
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:43 am

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:57 pm

there will not be sufficient 777s available for boston, i hope at least to be 330 rather than old 340s
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25090
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:36 pm

Video and accompanied newsstory interview with Temel Kotil at the Singapore Air Show.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/turki...rategy-~uzEhecUT869A7ejjDKJpg.html

Basically -
o Lira weakness not hurting TK as 80% of income is foreign currencies.
o TK is a global airline, growth continues. Driver is not solely Turkish market which he views as still "very strong".
o IST is perfect location to connect global demand. 1200 daily flights today, could support 2000.
o Like to grow more in Asia - but bilateral constraints in places like India/China slow this. So continue to grow Africa and Americas.
o Passed on EU airline acquisition. From strategic point of view believe single Istanbul hub concept is better to pursue than multi-hub concept.
o Building parallel hub at SAW, with second runway on the way can make SAW match IST capacity.
o Asked about financing for 3rd airport - does not believe it will be an issue as underlying business case for airport is strong, but company has a plan B incase of delays beyond 2019.
o No new aircraft orders planned. Have 256 orders already.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 43):
I can see why Lufthansa has negative views of TK now. Look at all the German markets (especially outside FRA/MUC), TK dominates them.

What this shows is that TK clearly can garner good volume of beyond traffic also from these secondary yet large German markets.

Even at hubs like FRA/MUC TK manages stronger market share than LH.

Loss of this connecting flow I think is what is hurting LH the most. As clients in Germany chose TK to reach places in Asia, MidEast, etc, LH becomes the primary loser of that client.

Well one reason the TK market share is so high to Germany is because LH does not offer nonstops itself from secondary German cities as it focuses on everything around FRA/MUC hubs. Many of these secondary German markets have been TK's bread and butter going back decades even as charters before scheduled service.

Though yes I am sure you are right that every connecting client TK or ME3 carries is one less that LH might have which in the long run weakens LH network headed to places like Far East, South Asia and Africa.

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 44):
Does anyone know or have heard about advanced bookings on IST-BOS-IST route.

It way too early, but considering they have $600 fares for sale its something they are pushing.

It will take atleast a year for the station to fall into place as awareness grows.

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 44):
I am sure TK will get passengers wishing to fly to the middle east,india and africa.

Certainly. It must, as Boston cant be sustained on demand from Turkey.

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 44):
Any chance within a year or so the route could be flown by the 777-300ER?

The 77W fleet is stretched thin and even with new deliveries the frames are needed for larger markets and those that require the 77W range. BOS is ideal for the Airbus - eventually be A333 as that fleet type grows also.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):

It way too early, but considering they have $600 fares for sale its something they are pushing.

TK's super-discounts have gone away for the summer months though fall is a different story: plenty of 690 non stop fares.

Non-Stop pricing is fairly high right now for July: a few days at $1100 and it goes up from there.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
The 77W fleet is stretched thin and even with new deliveries the frames are needed for larger markets and those that require the 77W range. BOS is ideal for the Airbus - eventually be A333 as that fleet type grows also.

It would be great if the route someday matured to allow 2x daily to maximize connections. Too bad they don't have any 787-8's coming for this.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
ist2014
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:43 am

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:54 am

i agree with u. 2 daily 787 would be great for majority of us cities
 
ASA
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation February 2014

Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:20 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
o IST is perfect location to connect global demand. 1200 daily flights today, could support 2000.

Confusing  

does this mean Istanbul as a city of O&D and transit opportunities can support 2000 flights ... or the current IST airport capacity can be increased to 2000 flights if needed?

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