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cle757
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CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:38 pm

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local...ling-hub-out-of-cleveland/5106115/ I hope its just a rumor, but things aren't looking good for CLE!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
srbmod
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting cle757 (Thread starter):

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local...ling-hub-out-of-cleveland/5106115/ I hope its just a rumor, but things aren't looking good for CLE!

To an extent, I'm not surprised, look at DL's downsizing at CVG and MEM in recent years. CVG was downsized in favor of DTW and MEM was downsized in favor of ATL. They were two hubs too close the the merged airlines' biggest hubs. CLE is nearly the same distance (as the crow flies) from ORD as MEM is from ATL (CVG is even closer to DTW than MEM is to ATL and CLE is to ORD.). Even AA shuttered their STL hub acquired in the TWA deal (STL was supposed to take pressure off of their hub at ORD and never really filled the role too well.). We'll probably taking about a similar hub downsizing with AA/US in a couple of years.....
 
N766UA
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Zero facts in that article from anyone. Means nothing to me!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:16 pm

United's agreement with state of Ohio and City of Cleveland which commits them to keeping 90% if pre-merger CO flight activity at CLE along with minimum level of employment expires in 2015 for what its worth.

Though per agreement terms pulling the plug 1-year early would cost UA mere $20mil.

[Edited 2014-02-01 13:23:23]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FWAERJ
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:19 pm

If true, I wouldn't be surprised. The writing was on the wall as far back as late 2009 when CO announced the first huge wave of cuts. Too bad, because CLE is an infinitely easier airport to connect in than ORD.

Three questions, all United Express-related, remain for me:
-What will happen to CommutAir's Q200/300 ops? Moved to another hub such as ORD?
-What will happen to Silver's EAS flying from CLE? Moved, rebid, or even gone?
-Would the EV ER4 XRs be reallocated to a hub that really needs them like DEN? And would the non-XR ER4s go to other hubs, or be turned into bizjets or Bud cans?

[Edited 2014-02-01 13:23:48]
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
FWAERJ
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Though pulling the plug 1-year early would cost UA mere $20mil.

A drop in the bucket when you see the profits that UA has been posting (granted, definitely not as much as DL's profits, but still really good by US airline standards).
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
greenair727
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:23 pm

Opinions and "i told you so's" aside, anyone have any real information?
 
masseybrown
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Though pulling the plug 1-year early would cost UA mere $20mil.

They are on the hook for some airport bond guarantees, something like $80 million, I believe.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Could this be in any way a reaction to the recent ExpressJet pilot vote? ExpressJet does a decent amount of flying out of CLE and getting rid of the ERJ flying would likely be a large portion of the cuts.
 
cle757
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:38 pm

CLE management currently telling CLE employees massive cuts coming!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
What will happen to CommutAir's Q200/300 ops? Moved to another hub such as ORD?
-What will happen to Silver's EAS flying from CLE? Moved, rebid, or even gone?

Lots of hard questions, but these two are easy. All of both can be shifted to Dulles (which I think would be great--C5 runs a really nice operation and more passengers ought to have better access to it).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
cle757
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:55 pm

CLE will be closed June 2014
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
cle757
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:57 pm

From: JeffSmisek
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 4:39:31 PM (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
Subject: United to Reduce Flying from Cleveland

Dear Cleveland co-worker:

I want to let you know that we have made the difficult decision to substantially reduce our flying from Cleveland. We will make this reduction in stages beginning in April.

I wanted you to know this information before the press found out, but unfortunately they found out earlier than we planned. I apologize for this getting in the press before we were able to tell you directly.

Our hub in Cleveland hasn’t been profitable for over a decade, and has generated tens of millions of dollars of annual losses in recent years. We simply cannot continue to bear these losses.

No city has been more supportive of its hub carrier, and no group of employees has been more dedicated to providing great service, but the demand for hub-level connecting flying through Cleveland simply isn’t there. Ultimately, we can’t create demand, but we do have a responsibility to react to it. We must make the right business decisions, even when those decisions are painful, so we can continue to compete effectively and invest appropriately in our business.

While our decision to reduce our flying was driven by our continued losses in Cleveland, the timing of the flight reductions has been accelerated by industry-wide effects of new federal regulations that impact us and our regional partner flying. Those new regulations have caused mainline airlines to hire regional pilots, while simultaneously significantly reducing the pool of new pilots from which regional carriers themselves can hire. Although this is an industry issue, it directly affects us and requires us to reduce our regional partner flying, as several of our regional partners are beginning to have difficulty flying their schedules due to reduced new pilot availability. We need to reduce that flying in our most unprofitable markets, which unfortunately are out of Cleveland.

As a result, we will be reducing our average daily departures from Cleveland by around 60%. We expect to be able to keep almost all of our mainline departures (reducing only one of our 26 peak day mainline departures), but will need to reduce our regional departures from Cleveland by over 70%. Together, this will reduce our capacity (available seat miles) out of Cleveland by around 36%. We will make these reductions in roughly one-third increments in each of early April, May and June.

When the schedule reductions are fully implemented in June, we plan to offer 72 peak-day flights from Cleveland, and serve 20 destinations from Cleveland on a non-stop basis, including to all our hubs, and to key business markets like LGA, DCA and BOS. We will also serve from Cleveland on a non-stop basis key leisure markets, like FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Importantly, our new schedule out of Cleveland will cover 58% of the current Cleveland-originating domestic passenger demand on a non-stop basis, and will permit Cleveland residents to fly to almost every one of the destinations they fly to today, by connecting over one or more of our other hubs.

We expect to be able to keep our pilot and flight attendant bases in Cleveland, because we anticipate being able to keep substantially all of our mainline departures from Cleveland. We also expect to be able to keep all of our current technical operations in Cleveland, because we anticipate having the opportunity to work on the mainline aircraft. However, since we handle our regional partners’ flying above and below the wing in Cleveland, we will be forced to reduce staffing in airport operations and in catering because of the significant reduction in regional partner flying. We currently expect a reduction in force affecting up to 430 airport operations positions and approximately 40 catering personnel in Cleveland. Those reductions in force will likely begin in June. Each employee will be receiving detailed information relating to these reductions in the coming weeks. Affected airport operations employees may have system displacement options or other opportunities to maintain employment with United, and we will work with the IAM leadership to explore other programs that may mitigate the impact of these reductions on IAM-represented airport employees.

While we cannot change the outcome, we will take every action we can to implement these reductions in a manner that upholds our culture. Throughout this difficult process, we are committed to treating our people with the same level of openness, dignity and respect that our Cleveland co-workers have shown our customers and each other over the years. Our HR team is working hard to support you, and will be providing you with answers and assistance over the coming weeks and months.

I regret that we will be forced to reduce staffing in Cleveland, but we have no choice, given the level of continued losses we have suffered in Cleveland, the pressure that the new federal regulations have placed on our regional partners, and our reduction in regional flying. I know that these changes will be difficult for many of you, and this outcome is not what any of us wanted.


Sincerely,

Jeff
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:58 pm

Also for what its worth per updated January 23rd investor update, UA has decided to remove 34 ERJ135/145 frames from contract flying effective Q3 and Q4.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EricR
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:15 pm

It was always a foregone conclusion in my mind that the hub would close around the time the commitment period ended. Running all those high cost, old RJ's out of that hub had to kill the financial performance of the hub. However, when Smisek mentioned a $1 billion cost reduction initiative a few months ago, I had a strong feeling that CLE would be gone sooner than expected.

[Edited 2014-02-01 14:17:41]
 
fsnuffer
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:31 pm

The following comment was in the new article. Anyone know if it is true

One thing I have heard from people in the airline industry is that CLE has really high landing fees. We need to get them more competitive so we can get SW to establish a bigger presence and perhaps get Jet Blue to start offering flights into CLE.
 
capejet
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:32 pm

UA will keep 20 nonstop markets from CLE. All the hubs plus the cities listed in the artice. That means ORD/EWR/IAH/IAD/DEN/LAX/SFO/LGA/DCA/BOS/TPA/RSW/MCO/FLL. That adds up to 14. Does anyone now what the 6 others are? Think YYZ is one of them?
 
flyguy89
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:39 pm

     

Very sorry to hear this, guys, I've connected through CLE a few times and it was always an enjoyable experience with top-notch employees. Even though, as many have pointed it, it has long seemed a foregone conclusion, it doesn't make the news any better, especially for the affected employees. Perhaps now however CLE will get some B6, WN, and NK love and bring those fares down.
 
commavia
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:45 pm

And so there we have it. As was predicted almost four years ago when the merger was announced, economic imperatives were inevitably going to win out in the long-run when it came to the CLE hub - it was just a matter of time. Going forward, CLE will still maintain a robust schedule of nonstop flights to the largest business and leisure O&D markets on UA, not to mention dozens of daily departures on AA, DL, WN, etc.

As unfortunate as it is for the citizens, politicians and civic boosters of CLE (as it was for those of PIT, STL, CVG and MEM before them), the reality is that in this day and age there was no way that operating a hub with that level of economies of scale, dependent largely on uneconomic 50-seat jets, was going to be sustainable long-term.

While it may not have seemed apparent at the time, looking back in hindsight it is now clear that the AA and US drawdown and eventual closures of the STL and PIT hubs, respectively a decade ago were just the first moves in the inescapable hub realignment to the economics of the post-9/11 era.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:55 pm

Quoting capejet (Reply 16):
UA will keep 20 nonstop markets from CLE. All the hubs plus the cities listed in the artice. That means ORD/EWR/IAH/IAD/DEN/LAX/SFO/LGA/DCA/BOS/TPA/RSW/MCO/FLL. That adds up to 14. Does anyone now what the 6 others are? Think YYZ is one of them?

I doubt YYZ only because *A partner AC has service on the route.

My guesses for the other 6:

ATL
LAS
DFW
BNA
PHX
MSP

PHL is also a possibility. Most of the smaller cities probably don't make sense if there is no feed.

Ironically, PIT will lose another nonstop destination in the CLE pull-down. I can't imagine there is any reason to maintain CLE-PIT service with no hub. Most O&D drives anyways.
 
commavia
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:13 pm

I also wonder what this means for the terminals at CLE. Based on the fact that virtually all of these cuts are going to be RJs, I suspect this means that D will almost certainly be closed. Beyond that, and assuming the airport and UA can come to some sort of agreement, would it make economic sense, and would it even be practically possible, to consolidate some of the other carriers into C with downsized UA? For example - move the airport's other network airlines (AA and DL) into C, and then move F9 to the freed-up ex-DL space in B, allowing the airport to close off A altogether?
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
Lots of hard questions, but these two are easy. All of both can be shifted to Dulles (which I think would be great--C5 runs a really nice operation and more passengers ought to have better access to it).

Gate space at Dulles is finite. I doubt you could just take all prop ops at CLE and dump them into IAD without making cuts to the IAD schedule.
 
srbmod
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:22 pm

I wonder if WN will expand at CLE as a result? If so, does it impact their operations at CAK? CAK has long been a strong station for FL and I'm sure the folks at CAK are nervous about possible impacts there are the result of UA's downsizing at CLE.
 
jayunited
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:24 pm

This action by UA is not a surprise by any means most people knew once this merger happened CLE would fall victim to it and loose it's status as a UA hub. I'm sorry for the employees and their families who are effect by the decision to gut CLE.

Although I do have a question which is related to a direct quote from letter sent to all employees which states and I quote "While our decision to reduce our flying was driven by our continued losses in Cleveland, the timing of the flight reductions has been accelerated by industry-wide effects of new federal regulations that are forcing us to reduce our regional partner flying. We need to reduce that flying in our most unprofitable regional carrier markets, which unfortunately are out of Cleveland." (The source of this quote is from Flying Together so a link to this quote will not work for non UA employees)

But my question is what new federal regulations are UA referring to and why do these regulations require UA to cut so much regional flying? OR is UA using the FEDS as a scape goat to get out of CLE faster?
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 23):
But my question is what new federal regulations are UA referring to and why do these regulations require UA to cut so much regional flying? OR is UA using the FEDS as a scape goat to get out of CLE faster?

FAR 117 rest rules requires more pilot staffing. However, the ATP rule makes it hard for regionals to staff the flying. Its expensive to learn to fly and new pilots aren't buying the dream of flying for regionals at peanut wages.

It will only get worse when the majors start to have retirements.

That being said, CLE was going to be de-hubbed anyways due to the merger. All the new regulations did was to permanently get rid of the flying versus to re-deploy it and also sped up the de-hubbing process.
 
ouboy79
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting capejet (Reply 16):
UA will keep 20 nonstop markets from CLE. All the hubs plus the cities listed in the artice. That means ORD/EWR/IAH/IAD/DEN/LAX/SFO/LGA/DCA/BOS/TPA/RSW/MCO/FLL. That adds up to 14. Does anyone now what the 6 others are? Think YYZ is one of them?

I wonder if they would keep OKC as one due to the oil/gas contracts to that area that made them restart the flight in the first place last year.
 
UALFAson
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 21):
Gate space at Dulles is finite. I doubt you could just take all prop ops at CLE and dump them into IAD without making cuts to the IAD schedule.

I don't have any factual data to back this up, but anecdotally I don't think it would be too big of a problem. UA is significantly down in overall # of departures from IAD from its peak. Again, no supporting data, but anecdotally from looking at their "next departure from this gate" info at the bottom of IAD gate monitors, their gate utilization rate has to be ridiculously low.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
EricR
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 22):

I wonder if WN will expand at CLE as a result?

Doubtful in my opinion. Most of the chopped routes were to smaller sized cities on RJ's (which WN does not have) that only survived due to the connections (which WN does not have at CLE). It sounds like UA is keeping enough flights to cover most of the O&D, so I see limited growth for WN or any other carrier seeking to expand in CLE.

I think CVG is a good example. DL kept enough flights around to capture most of the O&D, and this prevented other airlines from adding too much additional capacity once the hub was drawn down.

[Edited 2014-02-01 15:35:51]
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
I also wonder what this means for the terminals at CLE. Based on the fact that virtually all of these cuts are going to be RJs, I suspect this means that D will almost certainly be closed. Beyond that, and assuming the airport and UA can come to some sort of agreement, would it make economic sense, and would it even be practically possible, to consolidate some of the other carriers into C with downsized UA? For example - move the airport's other network airlines (AA and DL) into C, and then move F9 to the freed-up ex-DL space in B, allowing the airport to close off A altogether?

Concourse D is the newest concourse and can handle B737s. If CLE were smart, they would try to consolidate on C and D and close off B and A. D is a very nice concourse. It would be a huge loss to let such a nice building sit unused.
 
windy95
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:42 pm

Internal email verifies it. In total, we will reduce our average daily departures by about 60% in Cleveland, resulting in a reduction of available seat miles out of Cleveland by about 36%, with the vast majority of that coming from regional service.
We expect to be able to keep almost all of our mainline departures (reducing only one of our 26 peak day mainline departures)

[Edited 2014-02-01 15:45:07]
 
ANA787
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:52 pm

I Knew something was up when they failed to load PDX/SEA-CLE to the summer schedule.
 
cle757
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:53 pm

Concourse D will close
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
hiflyeras
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 30):
I Knew something was up when they failed to load PDX/SEA-CLE to the summer schedule.

Perhaps we'll see AS add SEA-CLE if they have available a/c for the summer schedule.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:09 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 21):
Gate space at Dulles is finite. I doubt you could just take all prop ops at CLE and dump them into IAD without making cuts to the IAD schedule.

During the banks, no, but in between banks you would think you were on the set of the Langoliers 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
cle757
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:29 am

I think alot of the Cleveland locals will fly Delta, most of had it with United.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
ouboy79
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:33 am

ALB, BWI, BOS, ORD, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, IAH, LAS, LAX, MKE, LGA, EWR, MCO, SFO, STL, TPA, IAD, and DCA are the 20 markets remaining.
 
capejet
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:44 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 35):

Wow! MCI and BDL are 2 markets that I thought would have survived. They are not on your list. A previous poster said AC flies to YYZ so I am glad CLE will keep YYZ service. I had thought all CLE to YYZ was operated by UA.
 
chrisjake
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 34):
I think alot of the Cleveland locals will fly Delta, most of had it with United.

As a friend of some UAL employees at CLE, I feel bad. But as a paying member of the flying public, I say don't let the door hit you on the way out. The sooner the better. Let another carrier, or a couple of them, come in and pick up the slack.

UAL is a crappy product with outrageous fares at CLE. Myself, colleagues and co-workers have all had incredibly bad experiences with UAL since the merger. Its amazing to me that an international carrier can offer a supreme product on a 9+ hour flight and make it thoroughly enjoyable, yet UAL completely drops the ball on the 45 minute leg to/from CLE.

I'm looking forward to the possibility of a new carrier or 2 to choose from.
 
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Jamake1
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 34):
I think alot of the Cleveland locals will fly Delta, most of had it with United.

I think everyone has had it with United...not just in CLE.
Come fly the sun.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:00 am

I would love to see AA come in and challenge UA with LAX service.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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xms3200
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:11 am

Looking back at the recent turn of events, I am sure the city of CLE is glad that they did not build that multi-million dollar customs facility that CO kept asking for in order for them to add international service. CO always told CLE that there are 3 requirements to add service 1) Build a longer runway (which they got), 2) Build a new tower (apparently, ATC communications were affected during bad weather, the new tower is going to be opened in the fall of 2014 and 3) Build a new customs facility since the current one is so outdated.

Wonder if the new customs facility would have changed plans??????
 
B747forever
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:15 am

While not surprised by the closure, it is a very sad day for everyone at CLE.

Quoting cle757 (Reply 31):
Concourse D will close

Where is that confirmed?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:19 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
I also wonder what this means for the terminals at CLE. Based on the fact that virtually all of these cuts are going to be RJs, I suspect this means that D will almost certainly be closed.

I would prefer them to reconfigure the gates then close it off, if you have ever flown through CLE you would know it's the best concourse we have! (In my opinion). I would rather them wall off and tear down B.

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 28):
Concourse D is the newest concourse and can handle B737s. If CLE were smart, they would try to consolidate on C and D and close off B and A. D is a very nice concourse. It would be a huge loss to let such a nice building sit unused.

I agree 100%! I would love to see other carriers start using D. I don't know if they will want to cause that means farther walking for passengers, down C and through the tunnel, than Concourse A or B, but we shall see. I don't think they will close off A simply because that is where the Immigration gate is for winter flights to the Caribbean and such.

-ATLFlyer323
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 35):

ALB, BWI, BOS, ORD, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, IAH, LAS, LAX, MKE, LGA, EWR, MCO, SFO, STL, TPA, IAD, and DCA are the 20 markets remaining.

Wow, if that list is true then Delta must be kicking their butts on the ATL flights then. Not surprising when DL uses a combination of mainline jets ranging from the 717 to the 757 on the ATL flight compared to all ERJ on UA. I think DL has picked up a lot of NE Ohio connecting traffic recently, I use CAK more than CLE and the flights to ATL are almost all MD-88 now vs. CRJ, which in the past was all CAK saw.

-ATLFlyer323
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
Flytravel
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RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 35):

ALB, BWI, BOS, ORD, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, IAH, LAS, LAX, MKE, LGA, EWR, MCO, SFO, STL, TPA, IAD, and DCA are the 20 markets remaining.
PHL: Atleast F9 can increase TTN service (maybe add ILG) to be an alternative to high fare resulting AA service, and UA service to/from EWR. Maybe F9 will add some warm weather leisure routes to Florida as well.

BOS: B6 might launch BOS-CLE but limited just to 3x daily and timed mainly for BOS based pax, like the BOS-PIT route. CLE-FLL might be possible before WN gets in the mix, but low likelihood that B6 has interest in it.

[Edited 2014-02-01 17:56:14]
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting capejet (Reply 36):
Wow! MCI and BDL are 2 markets that I thought would have survived. They are not on your list. A previous poster said AC flies to YYZ so I am glad CLE will keep YYZ service. I had thought all CLE to YYZ was operated by UA.

MCI-CLE has horrible yields... With on average 3 daily departures only the morning flight is ever full. The 2 later flights were only full if a EWR or ORD flight cancelled to take the local passengers home to the hub.
 
Flytravel
Posts: 663
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:37 pm

RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 22):

I wonder if WN will expand at CLE as a result? If so, does it impact their operations at CAK? CAK has long been a strong station for FL and I'm sure the folks at CAK are nervous about possible impacts there are the result of UA's downsizing at CLE.

I was thinking about WN's position in CLE/CAK. It could move ATL service up to CLE. Or, it could choose to just end ATL services up to Northeast Ohio, and just have pax transfer through BWI but the difference being it chooses to dominate CLE-BWI with greater frequency until UA eventually is pressured out of CLE-BWI and it adds a token 2x daily CAK-BWI. UA anyways has CLE-DCA and CLE-IAD. This WN can do easier than ATL service against DL's hub in ATL. I'd be also curious if CLE or CAK get a Texas connection to HOU or DAL from WN.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2590
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 35):
ALB, BWI, BOS, ORD, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, IAH, LAS, LAX, MKE, LGA, EWR, MCO, SFO, STL, TPA, IAD, and DCA are the 20 markets remaining.

ALB is surprising. Maybe due to Key Bank?
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:31 am

Surprised it took this long.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
93Sierra
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

RE: CLE Maybe Done For UA!

Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:32 am

I'm surprised Phx didn't make the cut

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