Korean Air To Start IAH

IAHWorldflyer · Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 49):
When will IAH do something about terminal D?

There are plans out there for the terminal to be modernized. This includes adding an upper floor to accommodate larger lounges for the European and ME carriers. I'm not sure when this work is scheduled to start however.
The bigger issue is that the more recent improvements at IAH, Terminal E, and Terminal B South were funded jointly by CO and later UA. The airport authority probably doesn't have the money to do significant work on D all by themselves. I wish it were otherwise, but that's just how it is. There"s also just not much room to expand D to the East because of a taxiway.

a380787 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting tmoney (Reply 46):
Hella shorter flight (only 1 stop!) compared to SQ's 2 hops and cheaper than transiting (and having to fly UA metal ... ugh!!) thru NRT on NH.

So basically 10-abreast Y on ME3 versus 9-abreast Y on UA+NH

And it's ME2 because i think EY isn't there yet (really don't know why they aren't)

BA0197 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 50):
There are plans out there for the terminal to be modernized. This includes adding an upper floor to accommodate larger lounges for the European and ME carriers. I'm not sure when this work is scheduled to start however.
The bigger issue is that the more recent improvements at IAH, Terminal E, and Terminal B South were funded jointly by CO and later UA. The airport authority probably doesn't have the money to do significant work on D all by themselves. I wish it were otherwise, but that's just how it is. There"s also just not much room to expand D to the East because of a taxiway.

I fail to see how Houston Airports could allow this. I've read several proposals of starting the toast rack configuration, Terminal D would seem a logical start to this plan (modeling the design of the new TB). Simply increase the airport charges I say. Terminal D is a disgrace to Foreign- Flag Carriers coming into Houston. When you look at what BA had to do to establish their Galleries Club lounge, it is truly laughable.

thomasphoto60 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 52):
I fail to see how Houston Airports could allow this. I've read several proposals of starting the toast rack configuration, Terminal D would seem a logical start to this plan (modeling the design of the new TB). Simply increase the airport charges I say. Terminal D is a disgrace to Foreign- Flag Carriers coming into Houston. When you look at what BA had to do to establish their Galleries Club lounge, it is truly laughable.

Yep, 'D' is pretty much an embarrassing disgrace at this point and might hinder future operators from seriously considering expansion into IAH. I have heard of a new mid-field terminal being considered, again, just a wild rumor with nothing to back it up.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:17 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 51):
So basically 10-abreast Y on ME3 versus 9-abreast Y on UA+NH

QR is 9 abreast and the service beats the pants off of UA and even NH.

a380787 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 54):
QR is 9 abreast and the service beats the pants off of UA and even NH.

Both NH and QR are 5-star airlines on Skytrax ... clearly you've never flown NH in business class

LAXdude1023 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:01 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 55):
Both NH and QR are 5-star airlines on Skytrax ... clearly you've never flown NH in business class

Flown both in economy, QR has an edge in my opinion. NH is really nice, but I do prefer QR.

flyenthu · Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:25 pm

I could see KE siphoning SQ pax, and in that case it will probably hurt SQ. I flew the IAH-DME-SIN leg on Dec 24, 2013 and return on Jan 9, 2014. IAH-DME was about 30-40% (closer to low 30%s) in Y. I remember even J class was empty. We spread ourselves nicely on that leg. I was very surprised! I could have been because it was Christmas Eve. However, DME-SIN was full. On return, DME-IAH was about 60% full in Y. I asked an FA about this, and he responded that his flight back, IAH-DME was full.

Could be on and off good loads on IAH-DME for SQ. But, with KE, SQ might be negatively impacted. I hope not though. I love flying with them. ALso, I have noticed that SQ's price to India from IAH in Y are lower compared to EK or QR. I think they are trying to remain competitive at IAH. So, good for them!

iah59 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:45 pm

Singapore F & J class are normally full from IAH.

iah59 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:49 pm

Well you can't really expand Terminal D cause what are you going to do with all those flights that need a gate during peak time? It's already full enough when Air China is arriving. So there talking about building a whole new terminal and connecting it via train. Other than that Terminal D has so much potential with Air France Lounge, Klm Crown Lounge, 2 British Airways Lounge, and, with Emirates wanting to establish there own lounge and maybe more airlines.

tmoney · Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 54):
QR is 9 abreast and the service beats the pants off of UA and even NH.

Totally to UA. QR = NH in a lot of service tho.

QR is still relatively an up and coming airline. They will do whatever for your money. Especially if they know that same money could have gone to their more established competition.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 55):
Both NH and QR are 5-star airlines on Skytrax ... clearly you've never flown NH in business class

I made two points:
1/. NRT is a pretty expensive airport to transit over compared to ICN/DOH.
2/. Whether J, Y, Y+, flying on UA metal sucks. Period. Their in flight service is appalling. Sucks even more when you are doing TPAC long haul (IAH-NRT).
I did not say anything about NH's service. They do have an amazing service.

And yes, I have flown J on quite a few airlines including QR, NH, KE and UA. So "clearly" you might want to keep your opinions to yourself next time, rookie. 'Cause any experienced Anet-er will tell you Skytrax rating doesn't mean anything.

a380787 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting tmoney (Reply 60):
I did not say anything about NH's service. They do have an amazing service.

And yes, I have flown J on quite a few airlines including QR, NH, KE and UA. So "clearly" you might want to keep your opinions to yourself next time, rookie. 'Cause any experienced Anet-er will tell you Skytrax rating doesn't mean anything.

Read my comment again ... it wasn't directed at you.

A-netters also tell you EK will take over the world with their 380s, DXB is the only hub that matters, and that flag carriers will die left and right. The skytrax rating system is as good as the opinions of the A-netters.

aznmadsci · Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:23 pm

When did the topic of this thread change from KE and IAH to QR, EK, and Skytrax? Focus people!

HeeseokKoo · Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:31 pm

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 62):
When did the topic of this thread change from KE and IAH to QR, EK, and Skytrax? Focus people!

That's typical in a.net

KE just started accepting award reservations for this route. Revenue tickets will follow soon if not already. There's no advertise or notice on KE website yet. Nothing on Houston airport website, either.

IrishAyes · Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Back to the topic at hand.....analysis here

http://upgrd.com/aerospace/korean-ai...nch-service-to-houston-in-may.html

EricR · Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Good move by KE. The DFW-ICN market became saturated with too many seats which inevitably places pressure on yields. Better to reallocate some capacity to IAH where there is no direct competition than attempting to battle AA on price to maintain share.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 65):
Good move by KE. The DFW-ICN market became saturated with too many seats which inevitably places pressure on yields. Better to reallocate some capacity to IAH where there is no direct competition than attempting to battle AA on price to maintain share.

At the end of the day, its this. DFW-ICN is overserved with 14x weekly frequencies. Had AA not entered the market, KE would probably be daily from DFW and probably not started Houston. However, things being how they are, KE is basically carting around Dallas' VFR and some business traffic. Might as well try to capture some from Houston too.

Eventually, I think both DFW and Houston will be 4x weekly.

triley1057 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:49 pm

Very interesting (or maybe not surprising) that UA is handing over IAH-Asia to foreign carriers.

IrishAyes · Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting triley1057 (Reply 67):

Very interesting (or maybe not surprising) that UA is handing over IAH-Asia to foreign carriers.

Yup. Instead of adding another LAXPVG flight, they should have considered something from IAH.

iah59 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:00 pm

well there working on the European side and got Munich.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:18 pm

That's true. UA has optimized IAH- Europe.

a380787 · Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 66):

Didn't KE already announce DFW to be shrunk to 5x weekly ?

yellowtail · Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:12 am

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 57):
Could be on and off good loads on IAH-DME for SQ

Quoting iah59 (Reply 58):
Singapore F & J class are normally full from IAH.

As I said….SQ does a fire sale on Y and that is just cream for them as it is all paid for up front. KE will take away some of the that cream esp Vietnam bound traffic.

SQ also does well below….theres a reason why they run the 77W vs a 772 on the route.

Miami · Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:30 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 71):
Didn't KE already announce DFW to be shrunk to 5x weekly ?

Yes.

flyenthu · Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:34 am

I am comparing SQ and KE. One advantage for KE, and Asia traffic is that it will be a one stop trip via ICN. Compare that to SQ, which will be a two stop trip because of DME layover. The one-stop advantage that KE will be bringing to the table will also be a time saver too. Because of geography SQ is at a disadvantage. If KE plays it well, it will be quite competitive with SQ and CI.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:49 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 71):
Didn't KE already announce DFW to be shrunk to 5x weekly ?

Yes. Eventually, I think both will be 4x weekly in addition to AA's daily service from DFW.

aznmadsci · Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 74):

If you're talking about Vietnamese and Filipino VFR traffic, it would not matter since most travel is based on price. Now if KE started taking corporate accounts that fill up SQ, then that should be of concern.

Also you mentioned taking SQ 61 on 24Dec13 and it was rather empty. That should be typical since international travel slows down during that period. I am actually surprised they had a flight then as many international flights downgrade or even cancel from 24-26 and then revert back to normal schedule.

Quoting iah59 (Reply 37):
Delta airilnes can also feed traffic through IAH as well through Korean Air.

As reported by a.net, DL and KE have a rather dour relationship. KE and AM could work up a codeshare agreement for beyond MEX with this IAH flight.

Quoting iah59 (Reply 41):
I bet Korean Air wanted to fly in during peak hours at IAH but no space available.

The DFW flight has similar flight schedules to the IAH flight.

I did notice the timetable posted for IAH on the KE website, but no mention of a press release.

flyenthu · Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:32 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 76):
Also you mentioned taking SQ 61 on 24Dec13 and it was rather empty. That should be typical since international travel slows down during that period. I am actually surprised they had a flight then as many international flights downgrade or even cancel from 24-26 and then revert back to normal schedule.

I think they keep it for the DME-SIN leg. It was packed with Russian tourists leaving snowy Moscow/Russia. There was no empty seat. The J class was also full for the DME-SIN leg. But then, they can eliminate the IAH-DME leg and retain DME-SIN.

BTW, on a separate note, I just saw on your profile you made the big C history. Congrats! I am 2.5 years out and all good so far.

PHX787 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:01 am

Quite a surprise to me, but given IAH's growing status as an economic hub, Its not to surprising.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 1):
IAH has quite the impressive lineup these days. Long haul service from BA, AF, KL, LH, TK, QR, EK, CA, SQ, and now KE.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought NH also had a flight to IAH? Or is that just UA?

drerx7 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:10 am

Just UA starting a second nrt flight.

iah59 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:07 am

Well SQ picks up traffic from Russia and Europe and codeshares with Transaero on top of that its in star alliance with United and can connect passengers via Houston and opposite with United. Since its in Star Alliance loyal United or Star Alliance members will earn miles. SQ fares from IAH tends to be cheaper also. Korea Air has only Delta and Aero Mexico hopefully it can workout something with those carries through IAH. IAH has a lot of potential just has to be played right. i think with the growing Korean business and community in IAH it will mature slowly and slowly. SQ traps Southeast Asia but so does Air China and United. Only if Korean Air can trap traffic from Austin witch is a IT hq in America and transfer traffic back to Asia. Traffic going to India you will find on any airline at IAH just about to be honest. from AF to United. I wonder if Korean Air customers can use KLM or Air France lounge like Delta customers?

aznmadsci · Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
Well SQ picks up traffic from Russia and Europe and codeshares with Transaero on top of that its in star alliance with United and can connect passengers via Houston and opposite with United.

It would be interesting to know or has it been reported on any benefits from UN's codeshare on the SQ flight?

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
Since its in Star Alliance loyal United or Star Alliance members will earn miles. SQ fares from IAH tends to be cheaper also.

Yet, UA and SQ have a similar relationship that is brewing between DL and KE. UA and SQ may be in the same alliance, but there hasn't been much cooperation between the two. US and not UA had codeshare on the SQ flight. Not all SQ fares are cheaper from IAH, it mainly is in the Y cabin. Also, those cheap fares make it impossible to earn miles.

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
SQ traps Southeast Asia but so does Air China and United.

Traps?

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
Only if Korean Air can trap traffic from Austin witch is a IT hq in America and transfer traffic back to Asia.

Witch?

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
I wonder if Korean Air customers can use KLM or Air France lounge like Delta customers?

Technically yes, KE customers could utilize either lounge whether a passenger is a premium passenger or has Elite Plus access. The question becomes, would either lounge staff for such an early flight? They may end up using the generic premium lounge near D4/D5.

iah59 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:59 am

The lounge that Lufthansa/Emirates/Qatar and Air china share is under remodeling. They use another lounge or something saw the sign other day. Trap as in capturing the traffic in that area. Point is that there in same Alliance so there is some cooperation. Though the Singapore flight also makes money off of Cargo as well. Working in IAH I meet a quite of few people that fly on UA?US that go connect on to Singapore to Europe or Asia. Like I said IAH has lot of potential, I wouldn't be surprise if Delta or AM switch some flight times to connect and pick up passengers etc. Though IAH needs to push its plans to expand or build a new international facility. Some airlines like Emirates want to bring A380. Many surprises at IAH this year like last year KLM increasing more flights, Korean Air is coming, double daily to Tokyo and flights to Munich and, Spirits adding new routes here and there also Terminal B still expanding.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:14 pm

Quoting iah59 (Reply 80):
Korea Air has only Delta and Aero Mexico hopefully it can workout something with those carries through IAH.

They have that in Dallas. Why is Houston going to be different here?

hohd · Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 39):

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 39):
Definitely not India. It is longer than via Europe.

IAH-ICN-BOM is 10515 miles
IAH-FRA-BOM is 9318 miles

Quoting irishayes (Reply 9):
Not India. Korean only serves BOM from ICN, and the timings for IAH to/BOM via ICN either suck or offer long layovers. This is the ICNBOM schedule

ICN 1840 BOM 0040+1 x2467
BOM 0230 ICN 1310 x1357

Correct. You will need an overnight stay at ICN if you are flying BOM to IAH.

Distance is never a consideration if the fares are right (via ICN is only about 10% higher). However the overnight layover might not work with many. With the right fare and for some who want a free stopever in Seoul, there are some who will fly.

CODCAIAH · Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 28):
Funny how news of this route has not shown up in either the Chronicle nor the HBJ nor the HAS website. They need to get on the stick.

Press release from Houston Airport System:
http://www.fly2houston.com/0/3921602/0/83280/

Annise Parker's official Facebook page just posted a note about it too (is that a KE 737?):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151996512632535&set=a.276921972534.142403.268521702534&type=1&theater

Tdan · Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 77):

I think they keep it for the DME-SIN leg. It was packed with Russian tourists leaving snowy Moscow/Russia. There was no empty seat. The J class was also full for the DME-SIN leg. But then, they can eliminate the IAH-DME leg and retain DME-SIN.

Dude, you flew on the worst day of the year for premium business traffic! UA cancels many of its longhaul flights on 24Dec each year because there is virtually no premium demand. Even worse, you are using this single data point to come to the conclusion that IAH-DME should be dropped???

Truth is, IAH-DME does incredibly well in the front cabin and yields are very high. The flight does well for SQ despite the odd routing due to business demand in the premium cabins. However, KE will have an impact on SQ, particularly on O&Ds like IAHKUL, IAHCGK, etc which are premium heavy and currently 2-stop with SQ. I still think both will be able to survive, though SQ's profitability will be impacted by KE's entrance into the market.

a380787 · Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 86):
However, KE will have an impact on SQ, particularly on O&Ds like IAHKUL, IAHCGK, etc which are premium heavy and currently 2-stop with SQ. I still think both will be able to survive, though SQ's profitability will be impacted by KE's entrance into the market.

Rather marginally. SQ's flight in reality is IAH-DME then another SIN-DME. Any one doing the through service is just icing on the cake.

Even though SQ doesn't code-share with too many at IAH, when I was transiting there, I heard on the P.A. system they're calling for both AA and DL pax transferring to the SQ flight, so they're definitely getting DME feed (given how few options there are to Russia)

Tdan · Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 87):
Rather marginally. SQ's flight in reality is IAH-DME then another SIN-DME. Any one doing the through service is just icing on the cake.

Please bring data when making claims like this, especially when it is publically available. Otherwise, state it as an opinion.

According to HAS which breaks SQ's loads out by region, 62% of the traffic is flying IAH-SIN vs. 38% which is only flying IAH-DME. The IAH-DME O&D is up YOY, but it is still in the minority. Thus, my statement that KE will have an impact on SQ's flight is justified since it could affect the majority of SQ's traffic on the route.

http://www.fly2houston.com/about-traffic-updates

IrishAyes · Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 74):
If KE plays it well, it will be quite competitive with SQ and CI.

China Airlines (CI) has not flown to IAH since 2007.

Quoting hohd (Reply 84):
Distance is never a consideration if the fares are right (via ICN is only about 10% higher). However the overnight layover might not work with many. With the right fare and for some who want a free stopever in Seoul, there are some who will fly.

No, they will not.

The ONLY market served by KE in India is BOM. The Houston to Mumbai market is served by a plethora of carriers over the EU, TK and in particular, QR and EK, such that I'd be surprised if Korean even makes a DENT in the IAHBOM market.

And, as I mentioned earlier, the connections suck. IAHICN departs Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays and arrives in Seoul the FOLLOWING day. ICNBOM departs on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays out of ICN.

Return flights depart BOM after midnight and arrive into ICN the following afternoon on the same day. Outbound flights from ICN to IAH leave in the morning.

Nobody is going to spend that much time on a layover in Seoul in both directions. It's just not logical. The flight is not going after India traffic at ALL.

flyenthu · Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 87):
Rather marginally. SQ's flight in reality is IAH-DME then another SIN-DME. Any one doing the through service is just icing on the cake.

If that is the case, then it is a different issue. Actually, the more I think about it, it makes sense that the IAH-DME and DME-SIN are treated as two separate entities. There are some crazy pax like me that'll do the through service every once in a while. SQ is my fave airline and I do not mind spending long hours in flight with them.

saigonhouston · Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:38 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 90):
SQ is my fave airline and I do not mind spending long hours in flight with them.

I think KE will target on a different type of clients

I just got back from SIN-DME-IAH on Sunday 2/2/14. Below is the breakdown load factor by each segment. The DME-IAH segment is very light load in Y and it might have to do with the Chinese/Luna New Year. There hardly any Asian or Vietnamese in Y class on this DME-IAH segment. I also had a good chat with the crews on DME-IAH leg and they told me that most of the business class passengers are originate from SIN. The crews were all excited to have 4 days layover in Houston. Their returning flight is tomorrow afternoon.

SIN-DME;
First: 2/8
Business: 36/42
Economy: 214/228

DME-IAH:
First: 0/8
Business: 40/42
Economy: 111/228

https://www.airliners.net/uf/8207/phpxxZ1CX.jpeg

flyenthu · Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting saigonhouston (Reply 91):
I think KE will target on a different type of clients

I think so too. Fewer business related and more VFR likely for KE.

That gate in your pic looks familiar.

I did SQ 61 and 62 from IAH and return on Dec 24 and Jan 9. They were great flights but as you mentioned very light loads on IAH-DME and DME-IAH sectors.

a380787 · Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:44 am

Quoting Tdan (Reply 88):

Is yours year round or just December ? That's a month heavily skewed towards VFR

Tdan · Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
Is yours year round or just December ? That's a month heavily skewed towards VFR

Year-round. Roundtrip. Click on the link and look at the data. It's interesting and telling about the flight.

fly2yyz · Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:58 am

As has been mentioned before KE has good links with Korean companies doing business abroad and in this case Samsung, Hanjin, LG, Korea National Oil Company etc. So starting off with a 4x/week is a start to grow the market for premium classes. And of course for Y aimed at VFR traffic as stated not just limited to Koreans but the larger Vietnamese community, but also Filipino and Chinese.

I mean just having a glance at the ICN website and doing a search for flights departing after 1630 (gave an hour for transfer pax connect time) and one can see the numerous connections TPE, KUL, BKK, HAN, PVG, PNH, SIN, SGN, PEK etc....

BCEaglesCO757 · Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:18 am

I was able to get 7 international carriers at around 4:30pm on Thursday. Terminal D is indeed getting smaller by the carrier.

In this picture there is a UA 787, CA 777, LH A380, BA747,AF777, EK777,QR777, SQ777 Star Alliance livery.

IAH Terminal D international rush hour.

Missing are the TK777, AM737, and KLM747. If they were scheduled in at this time there simply wouldn't be any gate room.

[Edited 2014-02-06 22:23:20]

IrishAyes · Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 96):
I was able to get 7 international carriers at around 4:30pm on Thursday. Terminal D is indeed getting smaller by the carrier.

In this picture there is a UA 787, CA 777, LH A380, BA747,AF777, EK777,QR777, SQ777 Star Alliance livery.

that is SO cool.

I can't wait to do the same at DFW starting next fall

although, QF's later departure makes it more challenging....

iah59 · Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:16 pm

If you would gotten around 3:30 you would see Air China and KLM and then see how packed Terminal D is as well you will see TACA and Aero Mexico. Maybe some time you might see Qatar or Emirates arrive early and the aircraft waiting for a plane to leave.

IAHflyer97 · Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:22 pm

Couldn't a plane waiting for a gate use a handstand gate?

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net