thebigz
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Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:24 pm

Interesting readiing about QR in Swedish tabloid Expressen (in English): http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/the-...about-the-luxury-of-qatar-airways/

Depicts working conditions as slave-like....
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:36 pm

This is identical to everything I've heard from friends that have worked there as well as friends at other companies that have "rescued" ex QR employees. It sounds like a truly awful place.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
toobz
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:50 pm

Yup 2nd that. Know a couple former FAs. Truly a horrendous company. Feel awful for the employees there.
 
EBGflyer
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
This is identical to everything I've heard from friends that have worked there as well as friends at other companies that have "rescued" ex QR employees.

Probably not a lot different at EK or EY for that matter.
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ROSWELL41
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:58 pm

I've even heard that EY management goes after publications and web boards that criticize their organization. I've read that you basically cannot mention EY on pprune.org as a matter of policy.
 
toobz
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:03 pm

Hung out with some EK and QR FAs in Vienna ( pretty sure it was there) and the EK FAs were telling me how much better their airline treated them than QR. They were being loud and drinking and the QR staff were very quiet and retired to their rooms at a decent time. Not to generalize but this was what I observed in the hotel bar while kicking back a few with them.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):
Probably not a lot different at EK or EY for that matter.

From what I've heard EK and EY are better, not great by any stretch, but not as bad as QR. QR are the absolute pits, and despite gladly flying EK and EY I steer clear of QR because of their employment practices.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Viscount724
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):
Probably not a lot different at EK or EY for that matter.

From what I've heard EK and EY are better, not great by any stretch, but not as bad as QR. QR are the absolute pits, and despite gladly flying EK and EY I steer clear of QR because of their employment practices.

I expect few passengers would even think about such issues and would be more likely to fly QR if only due to their 9-abreast seating on 777s compared to 10-abreast on EK/EY.

Nobody is forced to work for QR. It's the employees' choice if they want to accept the working conditions or not.

[Edited 2014-02-04 13:11:50]
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:13 pm

Spoke to an ex-EK FA a few months back and her comments pretty much are spot on with this report, a very "Orwellian" work environment, though she said, not quite as bad as QR.

[Edited 2014-02-04 13:14:51]
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rwy04lga
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:22 pm

And yet, I've had people berate me for saying such things in defense of the American carriers supposed inferiority to the ME airlines. ''Oh NO, the ME carriers just know how to do it better''. They've said ''Show us proof!''. Well, here's your proof. But why bother, they won't believe it anyway. Anything to save face.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):
Probably not a lot different at EK or EY for that matter.

I have friends there too and have yet to hear really anything remotely bad, let alone as downright awful as QR. I'm sure they're no picnic but QR is far and away the worst.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
QR are the absolute pits

   And the experience we are witnessing with the World Cup is just reaffirming everything.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
Nobody is forced to work for QR. It's the employees' choice if they want to accept the working conditions or not.

Believe me, that's my attitude in western democratic states. If someone complains about their working conditions in Australia then I wonder aloud why they still work there.

Qatar is different. Not only are the easily gullible sucked in by marketing that misrepresent the working conditions that they will experience, once there they have no real "out". They are often contracted for a minimum time, and - catch this - their employment contract is effectively unenforceable. Just because it looks like conditions are adequate on paper, QR have no need to actually comply with their contractual obligations because the crew aren't able to bring a case against them.
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bergkampsticket
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:01 pm

Disgraceful treatment of their employees (note employees, not slaves). I suspect those selfishly defending such conditions wouldn't feel the same if they had to work in such a scenario whilst such attitudes help justify the dire treatment they encounter.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Having been involved for several years with a mission to the Philippines, and now being engaged to a Filippina, I have heard many horror stories about working in the Middle East. There are many people in the Philippines looking for jobs, and there are many agencies that recruit them for the Middle East. This is for all types of jobs, including airline jobs, but the most common are domestic help. And I have heard countless horror stories, the gist of all of them is that it is essentially voluntary slavery. But when jobs in your own country are unavailable, or do not pay enough to live on, and you have children to support, people take them. Before I met her my fiancee did apply to work in the Middle East, but I am eternally grateful that it did not work out (and she is too, now.) The point of it all is that the foreign employee has absolutely no rights or recourse, and it is the worst for women (especially young and attractive ones). So I believe everything in this story.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:42 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
This is identical to everything I've heard from friends that have worked there as well as friends at other companies that have "rescued" ex QR employees. It sounds like a truly awful place.



Pretty much what Ive heard. Thats why whenever I fly them, I try to go out of my way to treat them with respect.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):
Probably not a lot different at EK or EY for that matter



It isnt. EK is actually far worse. Just look at Dubai itself. Its a city built by modern day slaves mainly from the Philippines and Pakistan. Granted, the conditions in their own countries are far worse.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:04 pm

Amongst pilots it's also known that QR is not the airline to work for in the ME. EY and EK have a much better reputation.
 
DDR
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:09 am

The fact is, no one is forced to work for the company. If it is really that bad, why don't people just leave on the layover and never go back. It would be simple. Go to an ATM or bank, withdraw all their money and then book a flight home. People really need to do their homework before applying to a company.
 
airproxx
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:23 am

Know a Captain on B777 @ QR. He despicts his working conditions as modern slavery. Not surprised here.
And when I hear people say you aren't forced to work for them... Well it depends indeed if you prefer unemployment faced by many in Europe, to a few years in Middle East waiting for better days elsewhere.. Indeed...
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
flyboy_se
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:28 am

It sounds pretty horrible.

Having said that, it does feel a bit exaggerated by the newspaper.
While i do feel sorry for these girls mentioned in the article, i cannot help but think if it is that bad, how come they stayed so long?? One of them was there 2 years and the other one 3. If you work in such a horrible place, why do you stay so long? I mean it is important to have a job and all, but if it us under such horrible conditions then why not go back home to Sweden and find another job.

It is important to put things into context. Qatar is a country where sharia law applies in full, covering personal status issues as well as criminal proceedings. So as Qatar Airways is bringing these people to the country, they are also responsible for their well being and safety. While some of the restrictions seems horrible to people from the western countries, this is actually the law in Qatar, and Qatar Airways has to follow it.
I honestly believe that the curfews in place mentioned in the article are for the crews own well being.

I believe that UAE has different sharia laws, so it could explain less restrictions for the crew based there.

Also QR is one of the few, if not the only gulf based airlines who acknowledges same sex marriages for their staff to use for travel benefits. Granted it must be legal in country you are based in ( not many but improving).

Now i am not defending QR, there is a lot of work to be done. However, it is important to put things into conext. In the end it is what you make out of it. I have met QR crew who loved it also some and who hated it.

Just my 2 cents
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flyboy_se
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting airproxx (Reply 17):
Know a Captain on B777 @ QR. He despicts his working conditions as modern slavery. Not surprised here.
And when I hear people say you aren't forced to work for them... Well it depends indeed if you prefer unemployment faced by many in Europe, to a few years in Middle East waiting for better days elsewhere.. Indeed...

I am pretty sure he is paid quite well, so not sure if i would call it slavery considering he can leave whenever he wants. I am sure being unemployed is better than slavery.
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Lufthansa
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting DDR (Reply 16):

The fact is, no one is forced to work for the company. If it is really that bad, why don't people just leave on the layover and never go back. It would be simple.

Having had a good mate who used to be a FO for QR... this is EXACTLY what plenty of people do, especially those from wealthier countries. He said they have had plenty of flights that they have found the uniform left in the room and the crew abandoned their job midshift they hated it so much, and its one of the reasons they try to recruit FA's from countries with not so strong currencies... those who can get more doing any old regular job at home won't put up with that kind of treatment. he said to me they had a few flights basically have to be cancelled as a result of being short of crew at times. One did it and it encouraged a few others to follow
 
a380787
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:03 am

Yet another reason why I never gave a single dime to ME3, and am glad that AC and LH respect human rights instead of being greedy with profits and bowing to airlines of no morals
 
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
Also QR is one of the few, if not the only gulf based airlines who acknowledges same sex marriages for their staff to use for travel benefits. Granted it must be legal in country you are based in ( not many but improving).

This is news to me...... having a number of friends working for QR in Europe/USA, nobody has ever heard of such a rule.
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9w748capt
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:00 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 21):
Yet another reason why I never gave a single dime to ME3, and am glad that AC and LH respect human rights instead of being greedy with profits and bowing to airlines of no morals

AGREED. I am more than happy to give my $$$ to AA/BA/CX and know that my dollars aren't going towards rich oilmen's coffers and aren't contributing to the ever increasing exploitation of laborers in the middle east. Hear Hear.

Quoting AirMale (Reply 22):
This is news to me...... having a number of friends working for QR in Europe/USA, nobody has ever heard of such a rule.

This. Kissing your wife or even holding her hand is against the law in the middle east. Hell you can't even buy a beer unless you're a foreigner - yet we're supposed to believe they acknowledge same-sex marriages? Sorry if that's a little hard to believe.
 
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zeke
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 9):

And yet, I've had people berate me for saying such things in defense of the American carriers supposed inferiority to the ME airlines. ''Oh NO, the ME carriers just know how to do it better''. They've said ''Show us proof!''. Well, here's your proof. But why bother, they won't believe it anyway. Anything to save face.

As a passenger, US carriers are inferior to just about any of the bigger middle east carriers. The difference between the middle east and the US is that unions are banned in the ME. What you are talking about is workers conditions and rights, which is different to the way the airline operates. Part of the problem US have when competing internationally is the non-competitive terms and conditions of their crew.

Nobody forces people to sign up for any job, a lot of people go to the middle east knowing that workers rights and conditions are not as good, however they trade that off for the tax free higher salary they receive in return.

Most cabin crew I speak to over that way say once you get on the aircraft, it is just another airline, and the salary could be double or more than what they were earning earlier. Complaints I normally hear are in relation to needing permission to leave to visit family, and religious based restrictions.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:20 am

What is the fraction of QR FAs from 'Western' nations?

One thing I look for is how they are doing recruiting from nations where the job situation isn't 'dire.' (e.g., Australia).

Not all the ME3 are the same.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
I have friends there too and have yet to hear really anything remotely bad, let alone as downright awful as QR. I'm sure they're no picnic but QR is far and away the worst.

It just occurred to me I haven't heard of anyone on a.net claiming to be a QR employee. We've had a few from EK. None that I'm aware of from EY, but they are much smaller...

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
Also QR is one of the few, if not the only gulf based airlines who acknowledges same sex marriages for their staff to use for travel benefits. Granted it must be legal in country you are based in ( not many but improving).

First, happy a.net anniversary.

I believe gay rights will be a major marketing advantage for many companies/nations. If that continues, it shall force other nations to change.

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palfromywg
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:55 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 24):
As a passenger, US carriers are inferior to just about any of the bigger middle east carriers. The difference between the middle east and the US is that unions are banned in the ME. What you are talking about is workers conditions and rights, which is different to the way the airline operates. Part of the problem US have when competing internationally is the non-competitive terms and conditions of their crew.

Because ME3 provide better "aircraft and perceived services", are you saying people like me who live and work in an environment where employees are treated fairly, should close our eyes and fly ME3? By doing that we fail the hard working men and women in our aviation industries who live in our communities. It make more sense to support our AC/UA/LHs of the world than sending our hard earned dollars to the coffers to the promoters of ME3 who may not be sharing a cent of your dollar with their employees!

[Edited 2014-02-04 19:56:34]
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Lufthansa
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:23 am

I'd like to say that we shouldn't be lumping Emirates in with QR in this case...they're NOT the same.
By a long standard. EK may have some more restrictions that the likes of KL BA UA or QF, but they pay their cabin crew double what QR does for a start.

If you get on an EK aircraft, you'll see plenty of cabin crew from Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Germany, Holland, Japan, Korea etc... all countries with relatively high wages and reasonably good conditions. QR don't go after these people for a reason. Firstly they don't want to pay the premium EK does to have them onboard. Sure EK may take advantage of $2 an hr ground staff at DXB, but in the sky they want ppl who can talk to the customer in both their own language and more importantly, understand their own concepts of service culture. (something the likes of China Southern are struggling with). They don't have to pay this much if they didn't want. There's plenty of much cheaper labour countries they can hire from but EK understands the Australian and Northern European Pax don't expect to ask three times to have their wine topped up, where as the Japanese Pax is less concerned there, but probably is very concerned with having certain things offered as they culturally will not ask for them (but they still want and expect them). So EK understands that to do this right, it needs people who not just speak the language but understand the cultural implications in each market. They pay a premium for this and if they want it done right they know, they need to give certain freedoms. It probably helps that EK is run by a westerner who expects this.

QR however is an entirely different mindset. They want the price down so they recruit from countries with not such strong economic prospects, hence a lot of their european crew come from the likes of Romania or poorer white southern africans from places like Harare. The Dutch, Germans, Australians and British would simply tell Al Bakar were he can stick it after a while and the cost in the house of cards continually falling in on itself may ground the airline at times, purely for lack of operating staff. QR's principle is "the whippings will continue until moral improves". Ryanair's antics have shocked me at times... but I don't think I've ever come across a company with such distain for their staff as QR. I think it's very important here to distinguish that. You hear of ppl working for EK for 10+ years and loving it...maybe missing home but loving the company and the lifestyle. Do you EVER at all hear that about QR? That speaks for it self. The senior management mostly seem to come from countries with distain for the work force and have an Imelda Marcos style attitude to anybody they employee to carry out there objectives...they don't even seem to care if these people die in the process. This is a company that should be firmly avoided on principle...and it if had to compete with market economics rather than being a strategic tool of the Qatar Government, it would have failed purely from it's attitude to its workforce.
 
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zeke
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting PALfromYWG (Reply 26):
Because ME3 provide better "aircraft and perceived services", are you saying people like me who live and work in an environment where employees are treated fairly, should close our eyes and fly ME3?

It is the consumers choice. BTW the idea of "fair" is different even in the western world. When US carriers took the staffs 401k money and used it to buy aircraft I though it was very unfair, something that does not happen in the middle east.

Quoting PALfromYWG (Reply 26):
By doing that we fail the hard working men and women in our aviation industries who live in our communities.

The various times I have been on north american carriers, I would not call the staff onboard I came in contact with as "hard working", fail to answer call lights, hardly see them between the service, service is minimal, hiding behind curtains in the galley. Very different to what an Asian airline would provide. The most efficient staff I cam into contact with were the check in and gate staff.

Quoting PALfromYWG (Reply 26):
It make more sense to support our AC/UA/LHs of the world than sending our hard earned dollars to the coffers to the promoters of ME3 who may not be sharing a cent of your dollar with their employees!

Like I said before, the main reason why people go work for those airlines is they earn more than they would at home.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:28 am

PS - as somebody who holds an economics degree I'm usually one to criticise the motivation and actions of a lot of unions. I'm hardly one to swallow their spin blindly because i've seen them cut their own members throats too many times by pushing things too far... so for me to right such a scathing attack on QR's Industrial relations ideas... they're extreme. I'd usually tend to sign more with the managements side of events.

QR simply doesn't understand you'll never get the best out of people by making them resent being there everyday. Engaged staff are the productive ones and the achievers. The ones who want to be there and love doing it. Not those who resent their company, and feel they're walking on egg shells all day and live in a culture of intimidation and fear.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 21):
Yet another reason why I never gave a single dime to ME3, and am glad that AC and LH respect human rights instead of being greedy with profits and bowing to airlines of no morals

Ok, lets get one thing straight. The reason LH and AC don't work with the ME3 has zero to do with human rights or morals. It has everything to do with the fact that its not in their best interest financially. LH couldnt even work with TK and they treat their employees far better. The reason? TK was cutting into their market share too much. Thats why they don't work with EK, EY, or QR.

Look at AC. Did they restrict EY and EK because of human rights issues or morals? Hell no. Canada saw the EY and EK as a threat to AC so they restricted access to them. The UAE retaliated by making it harder for Canadians to travel there (a visa).

LH and AC aren't charities. They would work with the ME3 in a split second if it was a financially sound decision.
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wzafar
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:44 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 29):

I agree with most of what you've said about QR. The conditions for the employees are terrible and every time I fly them I do feel for them and have faced poor service probably because the employees simply do not get enough rest. But I have also spoken to crew on EK in F and J cabins and though it's not as bad as QR, it's still pretty poor. I have had a F cabin attendant personally say to me she hates working for the airline (EK) and can't wait to get out once her contract runs out. I know this is just a small sample size but EK is also guilty of similar work conditions.
 
a380787
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:00 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):

Exactly my point .... airlines who only care about profits and totally disregard human rights and brand image partner with ME3 and worship them as the savior of global aviation

And I thought skyteam inviting Saudia was bad enough

India worships ME3 because their home carriers suck even more. For the rest of the world, we have better choices.
 
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yowza
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:10 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
Ok, lets get one thing straight. The reason LH and AC don't work with the ME3 has zero to do with human rights or morals. It has everything to do with the fact that its not in their best interest financially.

Any other obvious things you care to point out?  

The general treatment of guest workers in Qatar is deplorable even by GCC standards; from the illiterate construction worker doing 16 hours shifts in the blazing sun living on rice and water to the FAs of QR being run ragged and all other jobs in between.

Qatar's prominence will continue to grow as it continues to ink deals oversees but it is just a matter of time before something major happens that casts a very permanent black eye that even a giant cheque book might not be able to fix. How Qatar Airways became the shirt sponsor of FC Barcelona is nothing short of scandalous. I would be VERY surprised if FCB renewed its relationship with QSI after the 4 year term runs out.

YOWza
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:21 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Exactly my point .... airlines who only care about profits and totally disregard human rights and brand image partner with ME3 and worship them as the savior of global aviation

And do you think that LH and AC don't work with the ME3 because of their human rights records?

You know UA and QR used to partner with FF benefits.
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NAV20
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 31):
I have had a F cabin attendant personally say to me she hates working for the airline (EK) and can't wait to get out once her contract runs out.

After a lifetime in various business fields I've seen a fair few 'new trends' in my time. They quite often turn out to be 'bubbles' which inflate at breakneck speed at first, but later 'deflate,' or even burst..........

The 'ME3' phenomenon seems to be in that league. Sure, the airlines concerned appear to be 'making hay' exploiting their (currently matchless) location midway between Asia and Europe/the USA. But I can't help feeling that they're committing far too much capital to their current 'business plan' - over time, competition is likely to develop, in areas they won't have been expecting, and they may find themselves 'over-committed' and unable to respond to new challenges.

For my money, the 'turning-point' may well, with hindsight, turn out to be EK's 50-frame order for A380s, combined with their likely huge order for directly-competing B779Xs. IMO, within five years or so, as competition develops, we'll very possibly find ourselves reading about EK and the other 'ME3 players' finding themselves to be increasingly 'over-committed' in two directly-competing market sectors?

[Edited 2014-02-04 21:35:11]
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AsoRock
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:14 am

Ok when I read the boiled egg part of the story I couldn't stop laughing!! I mean really?? She had to explain in writing how boiling an egg started the fire alarm ? Tabloids thrive on exaggerating and in some instances fabricating stories just to sell in vast numbers. I have no doubt QR has strict rules that must be relaxed like the ones at EK, and I also have no doubt that some of the story details are exaggerated.
 
SCL767
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:17 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Exactly my point .... airlines who only care about profits and totally disregard human rights and brand image partner with ME3

You do realize that AC codeshares with EY on the YYZ-AUH and LHR-AUH routes?
http://www.etihad.com/en-us/about-us...a-to-introduce-codeshare-services/
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:45 am

Quoting AsoRock (Reply 36):
Tabloids thrive on exaggerating and in some instances fabricating stories just to sell in vast numbers.

How do you know it isn't true?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Exactly my point .... airlines who only care about profits and totally disregard human rights and brand image partner with ME3

One, I don't think that what what LAXdude was writing was 'exactly your point'

Two, all Western corporations "only care about profits"

Three, are you seriously suggesting that Qantas and Air France-KLM "totally disregard human rights"?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:27 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 29):
QR simply doesn't understand you'll never get the best out of people by making them resent being there everyday. Engaged staff are the productive ones and the achievers. The ones who want to be there and love doing it. Not those who resent their company, and feel they're walking on egg shells all day and live in a culture of intimidation and fear.

Indeed. You can tell if a person enjoys his or her work and it greatly impacts the customer experience as well. I've always enjoyed flying LH, AB and QF, because for some reason, it would seem to me that the staff on these airlines genuinely do something they like. I'm sure there are better and worse days for everyone, but some airlines seem to engage their staff more than the others. I don't expect the cabin crew to be beautiful 20-year olds that call me 'sir' in every sentence - I'm not a knight ffs. I much prefer people who are genuinely interested in what they do regardless of their age and sex. And treating your staff like cattle is not a way to employ this type of people.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:37 am

Quoting DDR (Reply 16):
If it is really that bad, why don't people just leave on the layover and never go back.

Some do...but others who's funds are tied up and sent to family back in their home country don't have that luxury.

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
While i do feel sorry for these girls mentioned in the article, i cannot help but think if it is that bad, how come they stayed so long?? One of them was there 2 years and the other one 3. If you work in such a horrible place, why do you stay so long? I mean it is important to have a job and all, but if it us under such horrible conditions then why not go back home to Sweden and find another job.

When it's either work in the equivalent of modern-day slavery or be flat-out broke, I think most folks take the money...but at the cost of their dignity.

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
Qatar is a country where sharia law applies in full, covering personal status issues as well as criminal proceedings.

Sharia law also covers certain personal dignities...based upon the articles I've been reading recently about QR and Al Baker, it sure doesn't look like he values them at all.
 
lychemsa
Posts: 1863
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:08 am

Sickening. Makes me want to vomit.

However these people apply for jobs knowing the awful conditions. There will always be people desperate to apply.

What are the salaries like?
 
737tdi
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:32 am

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 42):
However these people apply for jobs knowing the awful conditions. There will always be people desperate to apply.

What are the salaries like?

Now how would that be? I have searched and have not found a reliable source. Pay scale? Rules? Laws? I haven't found it anywhere. Maybe my search skills are lacking but I doubt it. Seems to me there is some racism and sexism involved. IMO if you fly this airline you are promoting what the rest of the world has been trying to eliminate. Racism, Sexism, Slavery, Bonded servants, etc.. This crap is illegal in most of the world and it should not be tolerated in the modern world at all. indentured servitude is way outside of what is acceptable. Yes you can sign a contract but that company has NO right to treat you as a prisoner.
 
SKAirbus
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:38 am

I see a few posters mention "sharia law". How does that make anything better? It is a practice that strips people of fundamental human rights, reduces women to second or even third class citizens and enforces draconian punishments for menial crimes...

Many people will go to work in Qatar and countries with a similar disregard for human rights (the UAE, Oman, Saudi etc) because they are looking for work, they are desperate... this in turn can make them vulnerable as they get drawn in by the false promises of good benefits but in the end get treated in the way described by the article. Also, many many people dream of becoming cabin crew but cannot get jobs in airlines closer to home because either they are not recruiting or there are so many applicants for so few places.

Unfortunately Qatar has a history of treating its workers like slaves... Look at the construction projects for the World Cup and the new Doha airport. Countless migrant workers have lost their lives or been injured in disgusting working conditions with an obvious disregard for safety. Personally I think FIFA should strip Qatar of it.. but that would mean handing back all the bribes (i mean seriously.. who would put a sporting competition in a country with 50 degree heat in the summer??).

I have the greatest sympathy for the people in the article.
Base: BRU
 
sweair
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RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:55 am

I would never travel with any ME airline would never travel there either, never spend a dime in those countries. Too bad they got all of the oil..
 
shankly
Posts: 1395
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:15 am

The unasked question here is how does such a culture affect safety?

My perception of QR, merely as a passenger, is that there is a good safety culture....proper pre-flight and pre-landing briefings and safety belt signs on when needed.

However, aviation safety culture has advanced significantly in the last 30-40 years largely because investigators have made solid links with human factors in accidents....Tenerife, Staines and Buffalo being the most obvious examples.

I hope my speculation is misplaced; but it does beg the question, what if?
L1011 - P F M
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:20 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):
Many people will go to work in Qatar and countries with a similar disregard for human rights (the UAE, Oman, Saudi etc) because they are looking for work, they are desperate... this in turn can make them vulnerable as they get drawn in by the false promises of good benefits but in the end get treated in the way described by the article.

UAE is the most "progressive" of the Arab countries...they actually have the most liberal alcohol/exercise of religion/women laws in the region.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):
Personally I think FIFA should strip Qatar of it.. but that would mean handing back all the bribes (i mean seriously.. who would put a sporting competition in a country with 50 degree heat in the summer??).

They moved it to the fall/winter in order to head off the heat...but yah, you hit the nail on the head with the bribary thing.

Quoting sweair (Reply 45):
I would never travel with any ME airline would never travel there either, never spend a dime in those countries. Too bad they got all of the oil..

Not quite...we're just sitting on all our reserves in North America waiting for the Arabs to run out of oil, then we control the market.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5196
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:28 am

Quoting DDR (Reply 16):
The fact is, no one is forced to work for the company. If it is really that bad, why don't people just leave on the layover and never go back. It would be simple. Go to an ATM or bank, withdraw all their money and then book a flight home. People really need to do their homework before applying to a company.

that's all well and good but you soon realize why QR target eastern block and third world nations to recruit their CC from..
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5196
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Swedish Newspaper Reveals "the Truth About QR"

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:36 am

Quoting AsoRock (Reply 36):
I have no doubt QR has strict rules that must be relaxed like the ones at EK, and I also have no doubt that some of the story details are exaggerated.

exaggerated?? I'd believe all of the allegations given the recent spate of complaints from workers regarding the conditions they're subjected to in order to fulfill the World Cup projects.

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