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DTWPurserBoy
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Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:51 pm

I have never understood why DL has this small subfleet of -700 aircraft. After asking around I can't seem to get any good answers except that "the are good for Caribbean flying" which makes no sense to me.

Anyone out there have any knowledge of this?
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Josh32121
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:00 pm

I thought they were originally intended for hot and high airports in Central America like TGU (and also EYW). Also, I think they were ordered before the NW merger gave them A319s with somewhat similar capability (although I think the 73Ws are still a couple of notches above the 319s performance-wise). DL may also have gotten a good deal on them that made them worthwhile. Clearly, they're not afraid of subfleets, so it adds a little more operational flexibility in places where a 73H or 757 is too much airplane to send somewhere that an M88 or M90 can't quite make it to.
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:07 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 1):

Yes, they were bought for hot & high operations, particularly in Central and South America, as I recall.
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:51 pm

Does DL use the A319 for any hot and high ops?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Does DL use the A319 for any hot and high ops?

Yep, at SLC DL uses them quite extensively.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Yep, at SLC DL uses them quite extensively.

Not sure SLC really fits into the definition of "Hot and High" when you compare it to TGU, EYW, SNA, BOG, etc. where the 73G's are mostly used.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:21 pm

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 5):
Not sure SLC really fits into the definition of "Hot and High" when you compare it to TGU, EYW, SNA, BOG, etc. where the 73G's are mostly used.

Well to be fair, EYW isn't hot and high either. It's hot, but not any hotter than FLL or MIA.  
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):
I have never understood why DL has this small subfleet of -700 aircraft.

If anyone can make subfleets work, it's DL.

I went back and found the original press release from 2006. It obviously was pre merger, and made sense at the time. I think it still makes sense now. There's no real additional costs to them given the fleet commonality with the 738/739. If it were just these 10 airplanes with no other 737s on the property, than it would be a different story.

ATLANTA, Dec. 7, 2006 – Delta Air Lines announced today that it has reached agreement with The Boeing Company to convert five firm orders for Boeing 777-200ER aircraft to longer-range Boeing 777-200LR aircraft (two conversions were previously announced), to order 10 Boeing 737-700 aircraft, and to assume its existing aircraft purchase agreements with Boeing. Delta has agreed to sell, immediately upon delivery, 38 future deliveries of Boeing 737-800 aircraft – 15 to Aviation Capital Group and 23 to Babcock & Brown Aviation Finance Limited. These actions support Delta’s planned international expansion, give it additional flexibility to fly new routes, and complete an important element of its restructuring. These transactions are subject to Bankruptcy Court approval.

“We’ve had a long-standing relationship with Boeing and the addition of these aircraft to Delta’s existing Boeing fleet allows the company to fulfill key elements of its long-term fleet plan, which is vital to Delta’s restructuring and plans to emerge from Chapter 11 in the first half of 2007 as a solid, independent carrier,” said Mel Fauscett, managing director of Fleet Planning and Acquisition for Delta. “These new aircraft are also an important part of Delta’s transformation, enabling Delta to fly customers to more international destinations in greater comfort. We continue to evaluate the needs of our network moving forward and plan to provide more guidance on the fleet when we file our Plan of Reorganization later this month.”

All five of the new 777 aircraft will be delivered with fully horizontal personal sleeper suites in BusinessElite® featuring on-demand in-flight entertainment systems in every suite. Customers flying in Economy class also will enjoy more room and nine-inch personal entertainment screens in every seat back, complementing Delta’s efforts to retrofit its fleet of 777s and more than 100 737-800 and 767-300 aircraft with on-demand, in-seat entertainment at every customer’s seat by the end of 2008.

These transactions with Boeing will introduce the first 737-700 aircraft to Delta’s fleet, replacing 10 future options for Boeing 737-800s with the 737-700. “The 737-700 is a better fit for the current needs of our network, providing flexibility in our fleet to fly longer, thinner domestic routes while at the same time supporting our international expansion to Latin America and the Caribbean,” Fauscett said.

The 737-700 will operate with a common cockpit type to the 71 737-800s in Delta’s fleet, but will be configured with 124 seats vs. the 150-seat 737-800s to serve smaller and developing markets. The 737-700 also will be delivered to Delta with winglets to deliver additional fuel savings and efficiencies.

During the Chapter 11 process, Delta has achieved $400 million of a projected $450 million in fleet savings by entering into agreements for lower lease payments; retiring four older, less-efficient aircraft types; and by rejecting, returning or selling 138 aircraft (as of October 31, 2006). Should these agreements be approved by the Court, Delta’s mainline fleet, order and options will be:

Delivery in Calendar Year Ending
Aircraft on Firm order 2007(a,c)
2008(b,c)
2009(b,c)
2010(b,c)
Total

B 737-800 10 7 14 19 50
B 737-700 - 7 3 - 10
B 777-200LR - 2 3 - 5
Total 10 16 20 19 65

(a) We have a definitive agreement, which was approved by the Bankruptcy Court, with a third party to sell 10 B737-800 aircraft immediately after those aircraft are delivered to us by the manufacturer in 2007.
(b) We have agreements, subject to approval by the Bankruptcy Court, with two separate third parties to sell 38 B737-800 aircraft immediately after those aircraft are delivered to us by the manufacturer - including seven aircraft in 2008, 14 aircraft in 2009 and 17 aircraft in 2010.
(c) These agreements are included in the above table because we continue to have a contractual obligation to purchase these aircraft from the manufacturer.
Delivery in Calendar Year Ending
Aircraft on Option 2007 2008 2009 2010 After
2010 Total Rolling Options
B 737-600/700/800 - - - 14 46 60 120
B 767-300/300ER - 1 2 2 5 10 2
B 767-400ER - 1 2 2 13 18 -
B 777-200ER/200LR - 1 - 2 8 11 13
Total - 3 4 20 72 99 135


Delta Air Lines (Other OTC: DALRQ) offers customers service to more destinations than any global airline with Delta and Delta Connection carrier service to 290 destinations in 46 countries. With more than 50 new international routes added in the last year, Delta is America’s fastest growing international airline and is a leader across the Atlantic with flights to 28 trans-Atlantic destinations. To Latin America and the Caribbean, Delta offers more than 400 weekly flights to 49 destinations. Delta's marketing alliances also allow customers to earn and redeem SkyMiles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Including its SkyTeam and worldwide codeshare partners, Delta offers flights to 445 worldwide destinations in 92 countries. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:28 pm

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 5):
SNA

How is SNA considered "hot & high"?
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 7):
How is SNA considered "hot & high"?

Definitely not hot and high, but the 5701 ft runway restricts performance - the only planes in the fleet that can reliably do SNA-ATL right now with a full passenger load are the 73W and the 757. EYW falls into the same exact boat (not hot and high but a very short runway) - for a while there were A319s doing ATL-EYW, but they were quickly replaced by the current 73W/CR7 combination.

TGU and BOG are other key airports for this plane.

As for cost, it doesn't cost Delta much extra, given that they already had plenty of 737NG pilots, the parts are the same as the 737-800 and the FAs might have had an CBT on differences between that and the 738, but the only real extra cost is simply the added CASM from having 36 less seats than a 738.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 7):
How is SNA considered "hot & high"?

I think when DL got their 737-700s, SNA-ATL was one of their first routes. It's not hot or high, but it does better with the restrictions at SNA. I seem to recall DL not really liking the A319 in the past so it's interesting to have two "competing" airframes in the same airline.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):
I have never understood why DL has this small subfleet of -700 aircraft. After asking around I can't seem to get any good answers except that "the are good for Caribbean flying" which makes no sense to me.

As others have noted, they were purchased for "hot and high" airports, mostly in Central/Latin America. Recall that they were purchased before they inherited NW's fleet of A319's, so the purchase made some sense at the time. Obviously now, with the A319 in the fleet, the 73G does appear superfluous.

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 5):
Not sure SLC really fits into the definition of "Hot and High" when you compare it to TGU, EYW, SNA, BOG, etc. where the 73G's are mostly used.

SLC is definitely "hot and high" in summer, as is DEN. SLC sits at an elevation of roughly 4300 feet, and summer temperatures are routinely in the mid/high 90's, and occasionally reach into the low 100's.
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 10):
SLC is definitely "hot and high" in summer, as is DEN. SLC sits at an elevation of roughly 4300 feet, and summer temperatures are routinely in the mid/high 90's, and occasionally reach into the low 100's.

Not sure that makes as much difference, anymore, with the two, long runways available. The temps were something to worry about when the one was only 10k feet long and before they built the 12K foot one.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
I think it still makes sense now. There's no real additional costs to them given the fleet commonality with the 738/739.

And plus the 73G is the best looking aircraft in DL's fleet beside the MD-88    That's also a benefit.

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 9):
I seem to recall DL not really liking the A319 in the past so it's interesting to have two "competing" airframes in the same airline.

I thought I read that Delta was very happy with the narrowbody Airbii (now, with the refits, the a319s will be even more efficient).
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seabosdca
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:23 pm

This is one of those oddities that you have to understand the airline pretty well to understand. As everyone else has said they were purchased pre-merger because pmDL really didn't have any aircraft appropriate for hot and high ops other than the large, expensive-to-fly 757. And of course the A319 has the performance to fill that role. (It's not quite as good as the 73G in terms of field length, but it's still very good, and it's a bit better than the 73G in the climb.)

But even after the merger the 73G and A319 have different roles to play. The 73G fleet is equipped with AVOD and a new cabin product. The A319s will eventually get AVOD, but they don't have it yet, and they haven't really seen a refresh. So for the moment the 73G is more appropriate for international and high-yield markets where its performance is required.

Another factor is that 73Gs currently have fairly poor resale value compared with longer 737s, so selling the 73Gs is likely not that attractive a proposition. Maybe after the A319s are all refitted there will be another look at the question.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):

I have never understood why DL has this small subfleet of -700 aircraft. After asking around I can't seem to get any good answers except that "the are good for Caribbean flying" which makes no sense to me.

that is the reason. I explain more in detail below, but basically Delta can't get the power they need for a select few markets out of the its current 319 family.

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Does DL use the A319 for any hot and high ops?

Not really. Generally the 73Ws do hot/high short runway flying.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 10):
Obviously now, with the A319 in the fleet, the 73G does appear superfluous.

not at all.
Delta's A319s are not set up for the "pocket rocket" flying the 73Ws are. Delta's 319s are step up for, mostly, shorter flying out of MSP and DTW. Also the engine is a big problem on the exNW fleet. Because they have the CFM56-5A engine they are maxed at 23K on the 319.

American on the the other hand is making its 319s comparable to the DL 73W fleet, they have the CFM56-5B7 engines and the highest MTOW available.

The 73Ws on the other hand are maxed on MTOW and have 738 engines on the. Delta's 73Ws have the CFM56-7B26 engines on them.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 13):
Maybe after the A319s are all refitted there will be another look at the question.

not at all. Unless Delta orders more 319s, the current fleet will never be able to have the performance of the 73Ws. Routes like TGU would be gone.
And I don't see a point in adding more 319s to replace the 73W.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:06 pm

I recall flying in a fully loaded MD90 DFW-SNA.... so the MD90 no longer goes into SNA?
xx
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 12):
I thought I read that Delta was very happy with the narrowbody Airbii (now, with the refits, the a319s will be even more efficient).

For the A320, definitely, however, I have heard that DL has been having some trouble making money on the A319 due to its high CASM. This is the reason why DL reduced the F cabin on these aircraft, as well as part of the reason DL will be squeezing more seats into them.

Either way, I don't see DL acquiring any more A319s nor any more 73Gs.

[Edited 2014-02-05 13:27:59]
 
roseflyer
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:28 pm

As others have stated, DL configured their 737-700s as high performance sports cars. I believe they have the highest thrust rating combined with low takeoff weights. If you look at operations in an airport like SNA, the only one operating 737-800s is AA, and on longer flights, they have to block seats off. Everyone is flying 73Gs into that airport over the larger versions. The 73G has great performance for short runways or operations with a high density altitude. The A319s are ok, but not configured like the 73Gs to be intended for short runway operations.
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):
"the are good for Caribbean flying"

the 73G was bought for routes like TGU, EYW, SNA…..but do make their way around the system to other places as GUA, BZE etc. where the cyan make money

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
Well to be fair, EYW isn't hot and high either. It's hot, but not any hotter than FLL or MIA.

But it is very short. EYW needs performance.
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:37 pm

What percentage of commonality does a 73G have with a 737H? ...seems it would be so close to 100% that to consider DL's small fleet of 73Gs to be a 'subfleet' is stretching the term. Technically correct...in reality insignificant aside from the issue of how many seats can be made available based on the type assigned to a given route/frequency.

Would also imagine that a fully-loaded 73G has marginally superior take-off/climbout performance from short runways over that of a fully-loaded 73H.
 
catiii
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
But it is very short. EYW needs performance.

Right, but it was listed as a high and hot city in the post I was responding to.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 17):
If you look at operations in an airport like SNA, the only one operating 737-800s is AA,

When was the last time AA flew 757s (if ever) into SNA?
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 15):
I recall flying in a fully loaded MD90 DFW-SNA.... so the MD90 no longer goes into SNA?

Big difference between SNA-DFW and SNA-ATL. a 738 or 739 doing SNA-ATL will struggle with a full payload. That's why it was 73Gs or 757s. It's the same thing to many markets such as STT-ATL (757 or 73G).
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
the 73G was bought for routes like TGU, EYW, SNA…..but do make their way around the system to other places as GUA, BZE etc. where the cyan make money

DL definitely isn't strict with their use of the 73Gs. JFK has been getting more and more service recently with the addition of GUA and SJO, and with SXM being upped to daily from the weekly 757.

In addition, they make their way to CHS, EWR, OKC, and a few other outstations in between Caribbean, And South/Central American flights, which is a nice treat for planespotters and passengers (the 73Gs are some of the most comfortable planes in the DL fleet from a pax perspective).
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:49 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 19):
Would also imagine that a fully-loaded 73G has marginally superior take-off/climbout performance from short runways over that of a fully-loaded 73H.

The difference is actually pretty dramatic if you look at the ACAP. The 73G at MTOW with 26K engines is a startlingly good runway performer. The 738 is decent, but not in the same league.

Quoting tinpusher007 (Reply 23):
I have heard this but then what is the ideal aircraft if you cant fill up a 738 or A320. I dont imagine the lower CASM of these aircraft comes in to play if they have empty seats.

You can always fill up an aircraft by selling super-cheap tickets. If the difference in trip cost is very small (as it is between a 73G and a 738) those super-cheap tickets are going to be enough to make up the difference and then some. Airlines haven't been buying new 73Gs in awhile because they figured that out after watching both types in action.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:07 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
When was the last time AA flew 757s (if ever) into SNA?

AA has always flown 757s into SNA. DFW, ORD, JFK (for a short time they did the route) and even SJC at one time.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 25):
AA has always flown 757s into SNA. DFW, ORD, JFK (for a short time they did the route) and even SJC at one time.

Not anymore, though. Last picture in the database is from 2011 so around there is probably when they stopped.
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Viscount724
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:39 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 5):
Not sure SLC really fits into the definition of "Hot and High" when you compare it to TGU, EYW, SNA, BOG, etc. where the 73G's are mostly used.

Well to be fair, EYW isn't hot and high either. It's hot, but not any hotter than FLL or MIA.

But the 73G's performance is useful from EYW's very short 4,801 ft. runway, probably among the shortest (if not the shortest) U.S. runway regularly served by large airline jets.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 13):
This is one of those oddities that you have to understand the airline pretty well to understand. As everyone else has said they were purchased pre-merger because pmDL really didn't have any aircraft appropriate for hot and high ops other than the large, expensive-to-fly 757.

And if memory correct, DL had an agreement with Boeing then to be their exclusive source of new aircraft, no doubt in exchange for attractive prices.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
Either way, I don't see DL acquiring any more A319s nor any more 73Gs.

According to last year's annual report, DL has no further purchase commitments for the A319 or the 737-700. They do have commitments and options for 130 737-900ER aircraft.

We all know that DL strategically purchases airplanes that have been previously owned, and they may find some bargains in the marketplace that are hard to pass up.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:52 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):

And if memory correct, DL had an agreement with Boeing then to be their exclusive source of new aircraft, no doubt in exchange for attractive prices.

Nope. That agreement came and went when I was still working there and I retired in '05.
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71Zulu
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 26):
Not anymore, though. Last picture in the database is from 2011 so around there is probably when they stopped.

Did have a charter come in Monday...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20140203/1630Z/KDCA/KSNA
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:52 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 30):
Did have a charter come in Monday...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20140203/1630Z/KDCA/KSNA

What was the charter for? Do you know?
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Alnicocunife
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
But the 73G's performance is useful from EYW's very short 4,801 ft. runway, probably among the shortest (if not the shortest) U.S. runway regularly served by large airline jets.

The 73G may be useful from EYW but a couple of weeks ago I flew out of there on a full A319 to ATL? so other than the longer routes to higher or hot locations it most likely does not matter much. EYW is not a high location. Sometimes hot and always short. I do recall there being a message about limiting the O/H bin carry on's to one per person? I do not think it was for weight because you could just check the bags. We did fly down there on a 73G, they said we were at 41,000 on the way down. Seemed high for a 737? Both planes were nice and clean.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting alnicocunife (Reply 32):
The 73G may be useful from EYW but a couple of weeks ago I flew out of there on a full A319 to ATL? so other than the longer routes to higher or hot locations it most likely does not matter much.

May depend on the temperature. But an A319 with a light fuel load should be able to get out of there full most of the time.

Quoting alnicocunife (Reply 32):
We did fly down there on a 73G, they said we were at 41,000 on the way down. Seemed high for a 737?

41,000 is the service ceiling for the 737NG. The 737-700 can almost always climb straight up there no matter how heavy it is at takeoff.
 
71Zulu
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 31):
What was the charter for? Do you know?

I would guess coming from DC it was the return of an Honor Flight to visit the WWII Memorial.

http://honorflight.org/apply/?s=CA
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 5):
Not sure SLC really fits into the definition of "Hot and High" when you compare it to TGU, EYW, SNA, BOG, etc. where the 73G's are mostly used.

Not much of 737-700s at SNA anymore. You may see a sub once in a while but SNA-ATL is all 757 now.
 
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting alnicocunife (Reply 32):
We did fly down there on a 73G, they said we were at 41,000 on the way down. Seemed high for a 737? Both planes were nice and clean.

When I fly WN on any routes longer than an hour, they're almost always at 41K. Same with Delta 73G flights.  
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Newark727
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 15):
I recall flying in a fully loaded MD90 DFW-SNA.... so the MD90 no longer goes into SNA?

It did until fairly recently, but I don't think I've seen one for two or three years now. I think when I saw them they were on the SLC flight, which is now an A319. The 737-700 was common until recently from ATL, but that seems to be almost always a B757-200 now. SNA has a short runway, I'm not sure if they still require that unusual steep climbout for the 737NG but that may have been a factor in using it here instead of a 737-800 also.
 
N763NW
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:36 am

Wait what? Delta has 737-700s?   
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fanoftristars
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:04 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
It did until fairly recently, but I don't think I've seen one for two or three years now. I think when I saw them they were on the SLC flight, which is now an A319.

Over the years I've flown the 738, A319, 757 and MD-90 from SNA-SLC. By far the 757 was the most fun followed by the MD-90. That full power takeoff on the 757 to SLC was memorable! Too bad there aren't any 757s to SLC anymore.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
I'm not sure if they still require that unusual steep climbout for the 737NG but that may have been a factor in using it here instead of a 737-800 also.

AA has approval to fly a normal takeoff profile on the 737-800. To my understanding, the 737-700 still requires the steep climb and power cutback (although they don't cut back that much anymore since it's a quiet airplane anyway). However, last time I flew an AS 73G out of SNA in November, we flew a normal takeoff with normal climb thrust reduction. Not sure what was up with that. The flight attendant did tell me that a few days prior they did cut back dramatically on another 73G flight though.
 
syncmaster
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 40):
However, last time I flew an AS 73G out of SNA in November, we flew a normal takeoff with normal climb thrust reduction. Not sure what was up with that. The flight attendant did tell me that a few days prior they did cut back dramatically on another 73G flight though.

They did the dramatic cut back for my flight to PDX last month as well.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:07 am

I would think MEX qualifies as high and hot yet the last time I looked DL flew A319's into that city.
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Josh32121
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting alnicocunife (Reply 32):
The 73G may be useful from EYW but a couple of weeks ago I flew out of there on a full A319 to ATL? so other than the longer routes to higher or hot locations it most likely does not matter much. EYW is not a high location. Sometimes hot and always short. I do recall there being a message about limiting the O/H bin carry on's to one per person? I do not think it was for weight because you could just check the bags. We did fly down there on a 73G, they said we were at 41,000 on the way down. Seemed high for a 737? Both planes were nice and clean.

DL limits all passengers (regardless of Medallion status or cabin) to a single checked bag per passenger when flying to or from EYW. That policy has been in place for a few years at least and is presumably to keep weight down. It applies whether the flight is mainline or CRJ.

Landing at EYW in a 73G is fun!!
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Sinlock
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 6):
Well to be fair, EYW isn't hot and high either. It's hot, but not any hotter than FLL or MIA.
Quoting alnicocunife (Reply 32):
EYW is not a high location. Sometimes hot and always short. I do recall there being a message about limiting the O/H bin carry on's to one per person? I do not think it was for weight because you could just check the bags.

With KEYW having only 4801ft to work with and an active noise abatement departure pattern operations do require a bit more pre-planning.
The carryon restriction is so the aircrafts weight and balance can be as accurate as possible, each pax has a set weight and the extra carry-ons can be put into the load plan.

The 700 is also better suited for EYW vs the 319 due to the aircrafts weight. EYW has a max ramp weight of 125t and the 319 will reach that limit sooner.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Does DL use the A319 for any hot and high ops?

The A319 visits DEN from E coast hubs, and DEN is one mile high, and freaking hot during much of the summer. But these are shorter routes than US-Central Am, and require less fuel, hence less take off weight, etc... and the A319 probably makes it just fine in DEN while it may struggle in other places for longer flights.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 42):
I would think MEX qualifies as high and hot yet the last time I looked DL flew A319's into that city.

So be it, if you checked. But MEX is not quite as far as BOG from the US. Probably they send the 73W on the longest routes, the shorter ones being served by other planes that are less capable of very demanding take off performances, eg, the A319.
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skybird77
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 8):
TGU and BOG are other key airports for this plane.

I would consider TGU more like "Short & High", but the 73G fits the mission perfectly for TGU (ask UA and CM that also operate it there). For DL, the problem is when there are stronger south winds (they don't use rwy 20 for take-offs - only landings), so they don't fuel up and instead make a technical (fuel) stop at SAP on the way back to ATL.

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 44):
Landing at EYW in a 73G is fun!!

I'm sure it is, but not as fun as TGU! And it's fun to land in TGU on a 757!
 
Mir
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
Not sure that makes as much difference, anymore, with the two, long runways available.

It's not just about the runway. Climb performance can be an issue at high altitudes and hot temperatures as well.

-Mir
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mayor
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 47):

It's not just about the runway. Climb performance can be an issue at high altitudes and hot temperatures as well.

It's probably nice to have that extra 2000 feet of runway, though.
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b727fa
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RE: Does DL Really Need The 737-700?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 3):
Does DL use the A319 for any hot and high ops?

After the interior mods are complete on the 319/320 fleet the 319 will have the new seats/AVOD/galleys and will do a fair bit of Deep South flying like the -700's do now.
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