ATCtower
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:06 am

I am venturing a guess anyone agreeing has never even thought about travelling to a real third world country. I have, and while LGA isnt the greatest, its another example of our idiot vp staging himself in the popular opinion without knowledge (should we be surprised?)

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
The Port Authority uses the money from the bridge and tunnel tolls to subsidize the PATH train and the Bus Terminal, both of which operate at huge losses.

Do you have any idea why they operate at such losses? The 'bridge commander' (each bridge has two) each make over $300k per year. This doesnt include the variable 'VP's' of the bridges which the port authority will not release numbers as to how many there are or what their salaries are.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 16):

I feel like no one wants to say this, but I'm sure it is on the minds of many.

I feel like the only way to truly improve air travel in NYC is to replace JFK and LGA with an entirely new airport outside the city limits, connected to the city via transit. That is the only way IMHO that NYC can see a world class facility.

No one will say it because it doesnt need to happen. Sure we get flows to EWR/JFK/LGA on a daily basis, they are more than capable of handling the traffic the city gets and that isnt even including TEB/PHL....

Quoting e38 (Reply 19):
Well, I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I kind of like LGA . . .

No reason for it. LGA is a domestic port and of course people will bitch but no real reason why, it is far nicer than MANY of the airports around the world I have been to.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
There are some nice terminals in the United States. DEN, DTW, SFO, have some nice terminals. There are some nice concourses out there sporadically but most countries have superior airports

I challenge you to find a nicer main terminal than DEN.... Open, airy, spacious, easy to understand/access, where?
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sjc4me
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:13 am

I've never been to LGA but judging from the pictures that I can see on Google, it's a Taj Mahal compared to OAK.
Unable.
 
a380787
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:21 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 50):
No reason for it. LGA is a domestic port and of course people will bitch but no real reason why, it is far nicer than MANY of the airports around the world I have been to.

Far nicer than what? Tertiary cities in China ? Or Sub-Saharan Africa ?

I've seen homeless people sleep in the check-in areas in LGA ... it's really just a greyhound terminal but for planes
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:42 am

Sometimes is America, we built something and once the project is all done, we'll say "ah, it'll make due" or "it's good nuff" but in reality, things should be built to the MAX of their potential in the beauty department.

But, anyways, the Delta Terminals are the best looking/most functional/most appealing areas of LGA….
 
kotoka
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:49 am

T2 at RDU is one of the best in my opinion. Traveled extensively around the world and haven't encountered such a stress free terminal. Very quiet, lots of wood and natural light, high ceilings, just beautiful. Terminals at DTW, DEN, CLT also come to mind.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:25 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 53):
But, anyways, the Delta Terminals are the best looking/most functional/most appealing areas of LGA….

Yeah...but they are 80s/90s era facilities.There is no true modern facility at LGA.

The airport exists because NYers value time over anything else. There are few airports in the US that are as convenient as LGA. SAN DCA FLL are about it.
 
Pyrex
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 55):
There are few airports in the US that are as convenient as LGA. SAN DCA FLL are about it.

BOS is far more convenient than LGA (other than the fact that taxis in Boston are very expensive). If you land at rush hour, LGA will take you forever stuck in traffic to get to the city. If you are trying to catch a flight out of LGA for a late Friday departure in summer, for a weekend away or something, may the odds be ever in your favor.
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Homobohemicus
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:03 pm

Even though a bit embarrassing but there is no shame in admitting it. I flew to LGA mid December and I was horrified how it looks like... I flew as well through LAX, MIA, EWR and SFO ... most of not all made a very very very low impression on me from the general look, services... Definitely a far cry from the functional airports elsewhere...

Age is not the problem but its evident no one did anything with these ports for a long time and I was surprised how passengers simply accepted it and took it for granted!
 
roseflyer
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:07 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 50):

I challenge you to find a nicer main terminal than DEN.... Open, airy, spacious, easy to understand/access, where?
DEN is great, but I would consider KUL and SIN better. In KUL, there is a rainforest in the middle of the terminal. HKG, ICN, BKK, AKL are like beautiful malls that just happen to have airplanes pull up. Never been to the middle east to see how great those airports are. DEN is one of the few US airports that can compete with the greatest airports in the world. It has a great main terminal for check in, but connecting passengers don't get to see that beautiful structure.

I know I am straying a bit off topic, but DEN shows that airports like that can be built, but usually they require a new airport far away from the city. LGA is close to the city and rebuilding the airport into a modern terminal within the geographic constraints of LGA is very difficult and extremely expensive. DCA does have a nicer and more modern terminal, so it can be done. Unfortunately no one wants to pay for it, which is the common problem with US infrastructure. Many agree it is a good idea, but people oppose any tax increase to pay for it since taxes are already high and airlines oppose anything that increases landing fees or airport fees because higher prices cause a drop in demand. DEN is unique in being a beautiful new-ish terminal and a low cost hub, although the landing fees aren't low cost. The landing fees at DEN were part of why WN pulled out many years ago and partially contributed to CO pulling the hub (among other restructuring).

[Edited 2014-02-07 06:24:58]
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lightsaber
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:15 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

That is offensive to third world countries

Exactly. Why no furor in defense of our allies and trade partners?  

Lightsaber
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homer787
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:19 pm

I visit NYC on at least a yearly basis. When I go, I use LGA, because I am going to New York, not Long Island or New Jersey. If I am stuck in a taxi cab, I may as well get out of the extortion of the George Washington Bridge or Holland Tunnel from New Jersey, and JFK adds at least 30 minutes of horror in a taxi cab ride to Manhattan.

LGA could use a few improvements: The CTB could use more security lines to help speed up peak times. I HATE Delta's monopolized food courts. The food is vile, and there is not even close to enough seating. The connector halls between the CTB concourses lack moving sidewalks, smells bad, and looks unfinished. There is not enough seating on the concourses during Delta's banks. The passenger pick up are is a joke. And finally, I have used unimproved outhouses that were cleaner than the restrooms at LGA. There is nothing like cockroaches floating in the urinals to welcome you to NYC.

With all of that said, I still prefer LGA because it boils down to location, location, location. It may not be pretty, but it is the best O&D airport in NYC.
 
corinthians
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 50):
Do you have any idea why they operate at such losses? The 'bridge commander' (each bridge has two) each make over $300k per year. This doesnt include the variable 'VP's' of the bridges which the port authority will not release numbers as to how many there are or what their salaries are.

Salaries for all NY State employees can be found here, including those working for Port (as long as they're based in NY).

http://new-york-employees.findthedata.org/

I don't know if a similar site exists for NJ State employees/
 
highflier92660
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:18 pm

After all these years "Amtrak" Joe Biden is finally branching out into aviation? If hyperbole is what it takes to get the ball rolling into improving LGA, other airports in the country and to finally modernize our ATC then I'm all for it.

What more likely will happen is Fox News is going to use this sound bite as more evidence that Joe Biden is a low-brow dullard who has put his shoe in his mouth once again. On the flip side of the coin MSNBC will take his statement as an inspirational challenge to put the downtrodden to work fixing our infrastructure similar to Roosevelt's WPA projects.

Yawn: Our country's media and their insatiable need for 24/7 news according to their political slant.
 
Flighty
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Biden's comment is outrageous!

Third world countries have far better airports than Laguardia.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 52):
I've seen homeless people sleep in the check-in areas in LGA

No you haven't. I've worked there for 7 years and not once have I seen a homeless person ANYWHERE at/in/on the airport. In the mornings, there ARE passengers who slept overnight at the airport (I did it in SAN) waiting to catch the first flight, but they must have tickets.
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richierich
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:21 pm

LGA is my least favorite airport for a variety of reasons, including it's appalling public transportation, parking, terminals, food choices and propensity for delays. Being #45 for takeoff on a CRJ is sadly all too common at LGA. I view it as a necessary evil - it's location relative to Manhattan cannot be denied but I will not use the word 'convenient' because other city airports do it so much better than LGA does. If the NY subway extended to LGA, I would like it a lot better, but that was not foreseen as a need way back when, and it would be far too cost prohibitive now.

So in this light, I cannot call Biden wrong. Whether or not you like Biden, he is merely jumping on what we already know. If this is the kick-in-the-pants the PANYNJ needs then so be it, but for some reason I think his comment somehow offended New Yorkers. It shouldn't...
I know there is a new Central terminal being built and that will only make LGA even more of a place to avoid for the next few years. I'm sure this will eventually be a vast improvement over the worst terminal in the USA that exists today, but by then there will be plenty of other areas that will need immediate attention. Honestly, they should be rebuilding and expanding the Marine Air Terminal (not the historic part) simultaneous to the CTB project.

Comparing LGA to world class airports such as DXB or HKG is silly. It has a different role and obviously a different footprint with which to work. But it should not be the pit that it is today. It should be fresh, comfortable, and offer proper ammenities - one step at a time, I suppose.
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EricR
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 11):

To be honest, I haven't seen too many really striking or nice American terminals. I don't mean to offend anyone, here, though. TBIT is looking good! Although last time I flew in to LAX it was through a United terminal with absolutely no style or elegance.

LGA is the worst, I agree.

I like DEN, as a whole. And maybe, JFK's newest terminal.

With so many airport facilities in the U.S., it would be extremely expensive (and not financially prudent) to keep all of them at world class levels.

However, I think there are many terminals around the U.S. that are nice terminals. For example, DEN, DFW Terminal D, TBIT, MIA Terminal D, DTW, International Terminal in SFO, LAS Terminals D & E, JFK terminals 1,4,5,8, IND, etc.

[Edited 2014-02-07 08:49:16]
 
ckfred
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 3):
Why does JFK need 8 terminals when HKG can accomplish the same with 2?

The U.S. is one of the few countries where an airline can lease a gate for exclusive use. Most airports work on the notion that gates are for common use. Granted, at a hub airport, the hub carrier might have a gate tied up all day.

But, when I was in Calgary, I noticed that several U.S. carriers were sharing transborder gates at YYC. When a CO flight pushed back, the gate agents unplugged the computers and rolled the desk away. Then, the AA gates came along, rolled in their desk, and plugged in the computers, and started working.

By the same token, JFK was built back when it was common for a large airport to build terminals on a loop road (think ORD). Now, it's common to build an airport like ATL, with one terminal and a series of parallel concourses connected by an underground train.

Quoting QantasAussie (Reply 4):
LGA is a disaster. I avoid it wherever possible. The only good thing about it is that the UA lounge is before security so if picking up someone from the airport - especially considering that they're always delayed, you could hang out in the United club.
I would think that for the $15 it costs to go over the GWB or the Verrazano Bridge, there should be plenty of $$$ for improvements over there. I've been in airports all over the globe and LGA is by far the dreariest.

The problem with LGA are two-fold. First, rebuilding the CTB would be a nightmare, because there is no place to put aircraft during reconstruction. It's not like when ATL built the "Midfield" terminal, while the old terminal was on the north end of the field. When UA built it's current terminal, the City of Chicago built out ticket counters, waiting areas, and FIS in the parking garage and bought a fleet of buses to ferry passengers to remote hardstands. Then, it tore down the old international building, built the UA terminal, moved UA from T2 to T1, moved the airlines on Concourse D to E and F, tore down D to finish out Concourses B and C, then built Terminal 5, situation of vacant space.

That took about 10 years to complete.

To build a new CTB would amost require shifting all of the traffic to other airports, or getting rid of the space where the biz jets parks. There just isn't any place to put aircraft while tearing down and building a new CTB.

Second, the Port Authority has a history of being very, very slow. Look how long it has taken to build the Freedom Tower. We've said in Chicago that if terrorists had destroyed a 100-story building sitting on government-owned land, then-Mayor Rich Daley would have had the site cleared and a new building finished within 5 years. And, he would have twisted enough arms of business leaders, financial firm leaders, and managing partners of large law firms to have most of the building leased.

The only reason that ORD modernization has been so slow is that the suburbs have been suing the City.

From what my friends in New York tell me, the Port Authority has always moved at a snail's pace, even with all the major politicians involved are from the same political party.
 
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STT757
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
The Port Authority uses the money from the bridge and tunnel tolls to subsidize the PATH train and the Bus Terminal, both of which operate at huge losses.
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
EWR is where the Port Authority of New York has poured the most $$$ into over the past 25 years, and the neglect of LGA & JFK shows.



This is absolutely inaccurate:

The World Trade Center is where the majority of PA funds have gone over the past 13 years, over $20 Billion. New Jersey Commuters are subsidizing, again, the construction of office towers in New York City which will be mostly vacant or just draw existing tenants away from existing buildings thus increasing the vacancy rate overall. The recently released PA 10 year capital plan calls for an additional $5 Billion to be invested in the World Trade Center over the next 10 years. When all construction is done the Port Authority may be North of $30 Billion in investments at the World Trade Center.

In terms of the balance of investments the New York side of the Port Authority is running an absolutely huge deficeit with New Jersey in terms of investments. And while the PATH does run at a loss, as all public transit does, it was the New York delegations decision to allow the Port Authority to take over the Hudson and Manhattan railroad in exchange for the New Jersey delegation at the PA allowing the Port Authority to deviate from the core mission (transportation) to build office towers (World Trade Center) to spruce up Manhattan's sagging fortunes during the NYC is bankrupt '70s. With regards to the Port Authority bus terminal, it's either operate the consolidated terminal or the buses would be on the streets picking up passengers as Academy does in Lower Manhattan.

And if anyone would provide some kind of comparison to prove assertions that EWR has received more money for investments than JFK over the past 30 years I would love to see it.
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jfklganyc
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:01 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 56):
LGA will take you forever stuck in traffic

It is 8 miles to midtown. Road miles. As the crow flies maybe four or five. What is your definition of forever?

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 64):

No you haven't. I've worked there for 7 years and not once have I seen a homeless person ANYWHERE at/in/on the airport. In the mornings, there ARE passengers who slept overnight at the airport (I did it in SAN) waiting to catch the first flight, but they must have tickets.

Agreed. LGA CTB is an awful dump. Rats in the food court when empty. Bathrooms small and dirty. Concourse ceilings always leak.

Never ever ever saw a homeless person there. Worked there for 4 years. Keep the thread real please.
 
mayhem
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 36):

Fully agree.

As a business traveler who flies out of NYC 2-4 times / month I actually am not complaining that much about LGA (C/D terminals). Funny how so many people do.
At least it is close to the airport and you can get through fast. The ipads make it look ok, and I arrive 1 hr before departure and just breeze through. Of course I'm not to keen to spend my day there, but for that matter I am not keen to spend my day at any airport.

To my experience EWR is the worst and JFK (depending on which terminal) is slightly better, but is killed by horrible waiting times...

And in the end, who is willing to pay 10% more on their ticket to have a better terminal?
 
T5towbar
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
The Port Authority uses the money from the bridge and tunnel tolls to subsidize the PATH train and the Bus Terminal, both of which operate at huge losses.
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
EWR is where the Port Authority of New York has poured the most $$$ into over the past 25 years, and the neglect of LGA & JFK shows.

One more reason to break up the PANYNJ monopoly and force them to divest of at least one of the airports. I guess the DOJ prefers to spend their trust-busting time going after Apple because of the way they price e-books, though.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 68):
This is absolutely inaccurate:

The World Trade Center is where the majority of PA funds have gone over the past 13 years, over $20 Billion. New Jersey Commuters are subsidizing, again, the construction of office towers in New York City which will be mostly vacant or just draw existing tenants away from existing buildings thus increasing the vacancy rate overall. The recently released PA 10 year capital plan calls for an additional $5 Billion to be invested in the World Trade Center over the next 10 years. When all construction is done the Port Authority may be North of $30 Billion in investments at the World Trade Center.

In terms of the balance of investments the New York side of the Port Authority is running an absolutely huge deficeit with New Jersey in terms of investments. And while the PATH does run at a loss, as all public transit does, it was the New York delegations decision to allow the Port Authority to take over the Hudson and Manhattan railroad in exchange for the New Jersey delegation at the PA allowing the Port Authority to deviate from the core mission (transportation) to build office towers (World Trade Center) to spruce up Manhattan's sagging fortunes during the NYC is bankrupt '70s. With regards to the Port Authority bus terminal, it's either operate the consolidated terminal or the buses would be on the streets picking up passengers as Academy does in Lower Manhattan.

And if anyone would provide some kind of comparison to prove assertions that EWR has received more money for investments than JFK over the past 30 years I would love to see it.

As I keep saying and keep saying. For the last ten or more years the Freedom Tower took away a lot of the PA operating budget, while tolls keep going up and up, without regard to the regions airports. That big tower of hubris had to be built no natter what the cost to the taxpayers. A lot of stuff could have been done as far as infrastructure in the last decade, but Freedom Tower was the main agenda to the politicians. Why it was built and the size of it, I do not know. It should have been built with entirely private funding. Like the WTC Memorial. This is why the airports look like crap. UA and DL spent their own money for improvements to their facilities.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 41):
Quoting bioyuki (Thread starter):
In context of America's declining infrastructure, US Vice President Joe Biden said:

"If I took you and blindfolded you and took you to LaGuardia Airport in New York, you'd think, ‘I must be in some third-world country,’" Biden said. When his statement drew laughter from the crowd, Biden quickly noted, "I'm not joking."

American politicians doing what politicians do best, I guess   

However, I don't deny the fact that the NYC area is becoming Whackyville.

The Vice President is very correct in his assessment of LGA.
Problem is that he or President Obama can't help the Port with funds for infrastructure. Which is a major problem in the entire country. That job belongs to this dysfunctional Congress, which the hatred for this president is determined not to do anything for the people even if it creates jobs.

Remember you civics classes:
The President proposes,
Congress disposes. Hence the problem.........
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apodino
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 71):
The Vice President is very correct in his assessment of LGA.
Problem is that he or President Obama can't help the Port with funds for infrastructure. Which is a major problem in the entire country. That job belongs to this dysfunctional Congress, which the hatred for this president is determined not to do anything for the people even if it creates jobs.

Not to be too political but when you are running billion dollar deficits, there just isn't any money left for congress to appropriate without cuts in other parts of the budget. We don't have an infinite supply of money in the treasury. And I wonder if its the job of congress to send money for local projects such as LGA when that should be the job of the local authorities to find.

That being said, something needs to be done with LGA. If you could build a third parallel runway at JFK, I would be in favor of just tearing down LGA and moving traffic to JFK and EWR. Obviously that's not going to happen, because people who don't know anything about aviation would think it would cut flights into the NYC area. The other issue with LGA is that the public transit links are awful. You have a couple of bus lines which take at least a half hour just to bring you to a subway station. If you are going to long island, its a bus and two subway train ride to Jamaica to catch the LIRR. Cabs might work for some people but a lot of us are on budgets, and try to save money if we can on transportation in the city. Combine that with that awful CTB (Terminals C and D are actually nice facilities), and that is why I prefer flying into JFK if at all possible when I fly into NYC. (Flight schedules make it tough sometimes, which is a bloody shame)

Lastly, people have said there aren't that many great facilities in this country. I completely disagree. Some airports that are real nice in this country include IND, DTW, MIA, and DEN. DFW has a real nice facility in Terminal D, and after the TRIP is over, that will be a world class facility. LAS is an airport where the gate area is nicer than the ticketing area, as the D gates are the nicest part of the facility that is linked to T1, and of course T3 is real nice as well. In JFK, T4, T5, and T8 are all real nice faciliites. HOU and MDW are two smaller airports, but both are very nice facilities, especially past security. So there are lots of great airports in this country.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:44 pm

As a simple response, it absolutely is. LGA or LaGarbagia as well call it in NY is a mess. Constrained, at sea level, and runways way short. The Only wing in the CTB that looks presentable is AA's mainline wing, the remainder still look as though Eastern Airlines planes should be parked at the gates with Bibs hanging from the ceiling, and ceiling tiles stained, and bathrooms that are the result of a cheap upgrade from a 1985 (circa) update.
 
T5towbar
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 72):
Not to be too political but when you are running billion dollar deficits, there just isn't any money left for congress to appropriate without cuts in other parts of the budget. We don't have an infinite supply of money in the treasury. And I wonder if its the job of congress to send money for local projects such as LGA when that should be the job of the local authorities to find.

That would be part of some national infrastructure act or something like that. The old infrastructure is crumbling around us and something will have to be done eventually. Something like the WPA Program can do it. (It was done before during a depression) That, and what Ike did in the 50's when some of these airports were built. But we don't have the brightest politicians here in office today. Sooner or later it has to be done. Eventually we will have to turn inward and use the billions and billions of war money and use it for the good of the nation. A lot of people in the NY/NJ area wonders where the PA money goes? We get hit with toll increase after increase with nothing to show for it. The PA Bus Terminal should be in private hands. And the PATH Train (well you have bi-state jurisdiction over it) and a private entity may or may not be cost effective. Sorry about my rant......

Quoting apodino (Reply 72):
That being said, something needs to be done with LGA. If you could build a third parallel runway at JFK, I would be in favor of just tearing down LGA and moving traffic to JFK and EWR. Obviously that's not going to happen, because people who don't know anything about aviation would think it would cut flights into the NYC area. The other issue with LGA is that the public transit links are awful. You have a couple of bus lines which take at least a half hour just to bring you to a subway station. If you are going to long island, its a bus and two subway train ride to Jamaica to catch the LIRR. Cabs might work for some people but a lot of us are on budgets, and try to save money if we can on transportation in the city. Combine that with that awful CTB (Terminals C and D are actually nice facilities), and that is why I prefer flying into JFK if at all possible when I fly into NYC. (Flight schedules make it tough sometimes, which is a bloody shame)

That's another problem. LGA is the preferred airport of the region, but it is the most difficult for mass transit. No rail lines like JFK or EWR. Only bus service (which is not the best) or spending a fortune in a cab ride to Manhattan. Don't think about going to Long Island or NJ. Plus with the limited amount of real estate, you can't expand the runways. But the terminals at all 3 airports can be rebuilt to function for the 21st Century. That would be more efficient, but we still will have the trouble of delays and air traffic due to lack of runways @ LGA and EWR. How to solve that question, I do not know.......
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Mir
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 50):
I challenge you to find a nicer main terminal than DEN.... Open, airy, spacious, easy to understand/access, where?

Where to begin? In the US, DTW (McNamara), MSP (Main Terminal). Outside the US, you've got LHR T5, AMS, MUC T2, SIN, HKG and ICN.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7678
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 72):
Not to be too political but when you are running billion dollar deficits, there just isn't any money left for congress to appropriate without cuts in other parts of the budget.

That is not an excuse. Economies are cyclical, so at-least during bubble cycle there should be zeal to invest in infrastructure. DTW was planned and built during boom period. One could argue $2.5 Billion is a waste for Metro Detroit. Now economy is recovered and DTW is added $600 Million to local economy with 84,000 jobs. State has $1 Billion surplus money.

I think Mr.Biden give LGA as an example to explain a bigger picture of our infrastructure. You will be amazed if you pull up data on structurally deficient bridges along your daily commute,
 
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lugie
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting kotoka (Reply 54):
T2 at RDU is one of the best in my opinion. Traveled extensively around the world and haven't encountered such a stress free terminal. Very quiet, lots of wood and natural light, high ceilings, just beautiful. Terminals at DTW, DEN, CLT also come to mind.

Fully agree with you on that, RDU should be used as example for other airports in the US, especially once they have fully renovated T1. Another good-looking terminal that comes up to my mind is the international concourse at PHL (meanwhile their terminal B is better not be talked about, looks worse than some train stations here in Germany).

The "problem" US airports probably have is their tradition - many guys have brought up arguments like HKG/DXB/AUH etc achieve similar passengers counts as LAX/ORD/JFK etc with just 2 or 3 instead of 5-7 terminals. In this case you have to say that while especially those airports have been built up from one plan within a few years, the great American gateways have developed and been expanded over decades.
The same thing is valid for LGA, and I have to agree, their former USAirways/now Delta terminal isn't all that bad.
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
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seabosdca
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:19 pm

To fix LGA, you would need two things:

1) comprehensive, ground-up rebuilds of ALL the terminals, and
2) a subway into Manhattan.

Those two things together would cost well into eleven figures. I think we should fund it nevertheless, because it would be a boon for the NYC regional economy.
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
There are some nice terminals in the United States. DEN, DTW, SFO, have some nice terminals.

By far in the UNITED STATES DELTA'S hub in DTW takes the cake there for me...In europe its AMS which i found to be a pretty cool airport with easy access to the train to the city.I haven't been to LGA since the late 90's even then the airport looked pretty bad i hope DL puts more money in there terminals if they haven't already.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:31 pm

LGA needs to total makeover. I avoid it like the plague and try to book out of JFK whenever I can.
 
masseybrown
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
To fix LGA, you would need two things:

1) comprehensive, ground-up rebuilds of ALL the terminals, and
2) a subway into Manhattan.

It's amazing how many New Yorkers don't think it needs fixing. When the whole world (i.e., NYC) is too small and too crowded, it's amazing what becomes "normal".
 
flyinghippo
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:04 pm

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again... LGA should be completely demolished.

Not only is it old and outdated, it is too small for the volume it handles. It is also sitting on some prime real estate that could be developed into commercial/residential/entertainment area that would generate lots of money that can fund a proper expansion/modernization of JFK.

LGA is also the cause of airspace restrictions on JFK and EWR, which is the number one reason why there are so many delays in NYC airports.

If LGA is demolished, those flights can be combined with duplicate flights out of JFK and would not mean an 1:1 increase of flights at JFK. It would also allow JFK to use all 4 of its runways more efficient, thus handling the traffic increase. Of course, JFK would need to be expanded (runway, gates), but if you don't bit the bullet, the bad situation at NYC airports will just remain.
 
SFOJFK
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:36 pm

I fly out of LGA weekly and like the CTB setup. Mostly AA and UA, but can't beat the convenience of the setup and security with PreCheck. You could check-in without bags up to 30 mins before flight time and still make the plane. AA has refurbed the D pier of the CTB and it's tolerable. I don't want a new terminal like RDU. I like the decentralized setup for easy access to my preferred airlines AA and UA to get where I need to go at specific times. Just wish they could come up with a better transit option instead of the express buses.

Getting ready for the flaming responses!
 
wjcandee
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting flyinghippo (Reply 82):
LGA should be completely demolished.

Never. EVER. Gonna. Happen.

Wall Streeters who are leaving their office for the airport do find EWR convenient, as does most of Jersey and most of Staten Island.

The rest of we busy, time-sensitive New Yorkers place a huge premium on our time. Which is why a reliable 20-30 minute trip by cab to the airport trumps a maybe-35-or-maybe-65-minute schlep to JFK every time. For the folks who don't care about time, meaning out-of-towners and people who have more time than money, great. Take the LIRR/Airtrain or the E-train-to-Airtrain. And use JFK. Where there are some very-very-nice terminals. Relatively-reliable and relatively-affordable. People like this person are absolutely an important part of the air market in New York, and are entitled to their opinion and to use the airport that makes them happiest:

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 80):

LGA needs to total makeover. I avoid it like the plague and try to book out of JFK whenever I can.

Meanwhile, any New York politician who tries to mess with LGA will have his head handed to him by his constituants.

[Edited 2014-02-07 12:48:25]
 
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United787
Posts: 2927
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 16):

I feel like no one wants to say this, but I'm sure it is on the minds of many.

I feel like the only way to truly improve air travel in NYC is to replace JFK and LGA with an entirely new airport outside the city limits, connected to the city via transit. That is the only way IMHO that NYC can see a world class facility.

Although I agree, it ain't gonna happen in NYC.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 67):
The problem with LGA are two-fold. First, rebuilding the CTB would be a nightmare, because there is no place to put aircraft during reconstruction. It's not like when ATL built the "Midfield" terminal, while the old terminal was on the north end of the field. When UA built it's current terminal, the City of Chicago built out ticket counters, waiting areas, and FIS in the parking garage and bought a fleet of buses to ferry passengers to remote hardstands. Then, it tore down the old international building, built the UA terminal, moved UA from T2 to T1, moved the airlines on Concourse D to E and F, tore down D to finish out Concourses B and C, then built Terminal 5, situation of vacant space.

I think a better model from Chicago for LGA is MDW. LGA is never going to be an HKG or ORD for that matter. It is a relatively small airport on a landlocked site. But if you look at what they did at MDW, similar could be done but on a bigger scale. It took creative planning, engineering and design but the result is an efficient little airport with nice new terminals. A completely rebuilt airport on a tight site the was done while in full operation. Architecturally safe but will stand the test of time. What MDW (and ORD) had that LGA doesn't have is someone with the political muscle to make it happen. It isn't necessarily all about funds. The airports are controlled by the City of Chicago, not some other authority, and the City was controlled by Daley. Love him or hate him (as most do on A-Net because of Meigs), when he wanted something, he made it happen, and it usually was well intended for the greater good of Chicago but the process was ugly; much like Sausage. From what I know about NYC and the East Coast in general, no one wields that kind of power. Which can be good and bad but generally means things don't get done like they do here in Chicago.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:54 pm

Third world countries ah? Just pick any in South America and LGA wishes to even be close to any of them:


http://arizainc.tripod.com/A3W.jpg

[Edited 2014-02-07 13:54:58]
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
bharathkv
Posts: 69
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:57 pm

At last Joe Biden is speaking the truth. Way to go Biden! When I travel outside US I am impressed with some of the airports. Of course a few US airports are getting better but I think there is a long way to catch up.
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6584
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting SFOJFK (Reply 83):
AA has refurbed the D pier of the CTB and it's tolerable. I don't want a new terminal like RDU. I like the decentralized setup for easy access to my preferred airlines AA and UA to get where I need to go at specific times.

tl;dr: "It's a dump, but it works."

The airports of the world's richest city should not be dumps.
 
Skyguy
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:55 am

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:27 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 11):
To be honest, I haven't seen too many really striking or nice American terminals. I don't mean to offend anyone, here, though. TBIT is looking good! Although last time I flew in to LAX it was through a United terminal with absolutely no style or elegance.

LGA is the worst, I agree.

I like DEN, as a whole. And maybe, JFK's newest terminal.

Some other nice airports I've seen are at smaller cities in the US. Jacksonville, FL, is really nice, and Knoxville TN isn't too bad either.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5110
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting bioyuki (Thread starter):

   to VP Biden! Sometimes an airport is a reflection of it's city and especially it's people! Sorry if I stepped on any toes of folks from the LGA area. But, I couldn't resist. A lot not all New Yorkers call anywhere else in the USA tha's not their area or LAX or SFO or Chicago or Denver call the rest of the USA flyover country and many othere nasties not fit to print.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
infinit
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:15 am

What a strange thing for a Vice President to say. If I were an American, my first response to that would be I know.. so what is your administration doing about the ageing infrastructure?
 
T5towbar
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 91):
What a strange thing for a Vice President to say. If I were an American, my first response to that would be I know.. so what is your administration doing about the ageing infrastructure?

He and the President can't do a thing. Doesn't work that way in the US. The President can only spend what's already been appropriated.

It's up to Congress to appropriate any monies for any projects to help the locals.
With this bunch, it ain't happening any time soon.

Like I said, the President (or VIce President) proposes; Congress disposes.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
747megatop
Posts: 1761
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RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:49 am

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 28):
Agreed. For all the chest-thumping they do, the coastal int'l gateways sure have a long way to go. Would MUCH rather connect through ORD or DFW rather than anywhere else.

As far as connecting goes, nothing beats ATL. Easy to connect. Concourse E is good, the newer F is much better. But LAX    is a nightmare for somebody connecting and the terminals are pretty bad. T2 is bad UA's T8 is horrendous!
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 50):

Quoting PROSA (Reply 13):
The Port Authority uses the money from the bridge and tunnel tolls to subsidize the PATH train and the Bus Terminal, both of which operate at huge losses.

Do you have any idea why they operate at such losses? The 'bridge commander' (each bridge has two) each make over $300k per year. This doesnt include the variable 'VP's' of the bridges which the port authority will not release numbers as to how many there are or what their salaries are.

Port Authority bridges and tunnels generate massive surpluses despite their high operating expenses. It's not surprising, given the obscenely high tolls.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 68):
And while the PATH does run at a loss, as all public transit does, it was the New York delegations decision to allow the Port Authority to take over the Hudson and Manhattan railroad in exchange for the New Jersey delegation at the PA allowing the Port Authority to deviate from the core mission (transportation) to build office towers (World Trade Center) to spruce up Manhattan's sagging fortunes during the NYC is bankrupt '70s.

The Port Authority entered the World Trade Center deal and took over the H&M (which had been financially struggling for many years) back in 1962, which was long before the city's flirtation with bankruptcy.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 39):
There are much more important infrastructure projects in New York right now than a new airport. Like finishing the freakin' connection between the LIRR and Grand Central, which would instantly boost property values on Long Island. Or finishing the half-assed mini-Second-Avenue subway, which would save millions of commuter-minutes a day. Are the politicians being put under the gun and made to finish these things on time? Nope. Instead, they've delayed them yet again.

The Second Avenue Subway was first planned back in the 1920's, and perfectly suitable elevated lines on Second and Third avenues were demolished (1940 and 1955 respectively) in anticipation of its Real Soon Now completion. When the federal government provided funds to built the subway in the 1970's, the city took advantage of a legal loophole to skim off the money for other purposes. Now the "stubway" is taking an eternity to complete. Unless and until New Yorker grow a pair and start sending politicians to prison, get rid of layers upon layers of useless bureaucrats, and destroy the construction unions (for each fired union worker there would be 100 qualified applicants eager to work twice as hard for half the pay), nothing ever will change.

LaGuardia's a dump? Better get used to it, because it won't be getting better in anyone's lifetime.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
argonaught
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:56 pm

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:18 pm

Out of the all airports in the NYC area I'd say only Newark is decent. I have been in LGA twice as a transit passenger, and both times it registered it as an unpleasant experience.
 
jporterfi
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:25 am

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 93):

As a part-time resident of ATL, I agree with you. A lot of people will disagree, however, as it can be hard to navigate for someone who hasn't been through it before (especially if they booked flights with a 1-hour connection). I like the new international terminal, but I think the domestic terminals could use a refresh at some point. On another issue, the U.S. is terrible as a whole for international connections (ex: GRU-ATL-LHR) as one must clear TSA security and Customs/Immigration before going to their departure gate.

In terms of the NYC-area airports, I've only been through EWR, which most people seem to think is nicer than LGA. I've connected there and originated/terminated there, and aside from it being the #1 (?) U.S. airport for flight delays, the infrastructure seemed fine, although I think a third primary runway (not counting 11-29) might not be a bad idea.
PPC (ASEL) | Aircraft Flown: PA28, C172, DA20
 
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lugie
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:06 pm

Different question, does anybody know if there are/have been/will ever be plans for a third runway?

Imaginable for me would be a parallel to 13/31 on an artificial island in Flushing Bay, similar to HND.

I know this wouldn't directly solve the infrastructural problems in the terminals, but it could give some help to the congestion troubles LGA is notorious for though and maybe as an effect of that even simplify the situation airside and on the check-in counters.

What do you guys think?
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: VP Joe Biden Calls LGA A 'Third World Country'

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:44 pm

Sigh ... and John Rocker never heard the end of it after he similarly commented on the 7 train, which stops at the station closest to LGA.

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