n471wn
Topic Author
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:04 pm

Per ATDB.org (a subscription site) I am sad to report that SWA 737-800 (#37009---N8327A) will be parted out at Paine Field. It had a tail strike in Las Vegas earlier this year and was flown (unpressurized) to PHX and then on to PAE where Boeing has determined that the two year old aircraft will not be repaired. This is a fascinating decision in several ways---first is that SWA is willing to give up the aircraft when they are short of capacity and secondly that the powers that be do not believe that a bulkhead repair is an economic repair---even on a new aircraft. This is most surprising as over the last 50 years we have all seen numerous bulkhead repairs and replacements on much older aircraft so now it appears that manufacturers and airlines/lessors are willing to just part out the aircraft instead of doing a rear bulkhead replacement. As best as my Boeing contacts can determine, it appears that Boeing is so busy with the building of so many aircraft and the need for human talent that for major repairs (such as a bulkhead) it is simply more economical to just junk the aircraft and build a new one. The exception of course to this was the "high profile" repair of the LOT 787.
 
Lexy
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:10 pm

I think insurance has something to do with this.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
flyinryan99
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:16 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 1):
I think insurance has something to do with this.

A multitude of things go into this...but most of the time it's a cash settlement from the insurance company and then it's parted out. My guess is it was a huge number to fix the plane and it's worth more to part it out than to fix it.
 
kaitak744
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:31 pm

All the interior, avionics, and engines can all go towards a new Southwest 737-800. So its not as big of a loss as it seems.
 
Lufthansa
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:41 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
The exception of course to this was the "high profile" repair of the LOT 787.

LOT? no they lost a 767, i do believe you mean Ethiopian?
 
aviatorcraig
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
The exception of course to this was the "high profile" repair of the LOT 787.

Don't want to hijack the tread but did I miss something? What did LOT do to one of their 788s?
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
na
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:56 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 5):
Don't want to hijack the tread but did I miss something? What did LOT do to one of their 788s?

Nothing. They lost a 767 in a belly landing accident 2 or 3 years ago. I think the OP confuses it with the ET 787 which burned at LHR some months ago.
 
JAAlbert
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:18 pm

Was the LOT 767 repaired?

737s are coming fast and furious off the assembly line - probably easier just to build a new one than undertake the repairs - also, the damage might have been very serious. The plane was flown unpressurized for repairs after all.
 
n471wn
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 4):
LOT? no they lost a 767, i do believe you mean Ethiopian?

Yes you are correct! I was so shocked at this loss I had a senior moment!!
 
na
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):

Was the LOT 767 repaired?

No, the 767 was written off.
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:15 pm

So, how many "hull" losses is this for WN?
 
bohica
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 10):
So, how many "hull" losses is this for WN?

AFAIK it's three. BUR in 2000, LGA last year, and this one.
 
baqnav
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:50 pm

It's interesting to note that two other US operators experienced tailstrikes in 2013, both with significant damage, nonetheless both returned to service after months of repairs;

A US Airways Airbus A321-200, registration N560UW performing flight US-1733 from Charlotte,NC to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 186 passengers and 6 crew, landed on Las Vegas' runway 25L at about 12:50L (19:50Z) but struck its tail onto the runway on touchdown.
On Feb 7th 2014 the NTSB released a brief preliminary report stating the aircraft suffered a tail strike while landing at Las Vegas in visual meteorological conditions, there were no injuries, the aircraft however received substantial damage. An investigation is ongoing.

The accident aircraft was ferried to Mobile,AL (USA) as flight US-9225 on April 10th 2013 reaching a maximum altitude of 11,000 feet. Other than this ferry flight for maintenance the aircraft did not fly until Jul 8th 2013, the aircraft resumed service on Jul 9th 2013.

A Delta Airlines Boeing 757-200, registration N693DL performing flight DL-1693 from Santa Ana,CA to Atlanta,GA (USA) with 142 passengers and 6 crew, was on approach to Atlanta's runway 28 at 19:21L (00:21Z Mar 8th), clear skies, visibility 10km or more

The accident became known through a brief factual report released by the NTSB in 2014.

The NTSB reported the aircraft received substantial damage to the aft pressurization dome, which buckled, as well as several stringers, there was also an 8 feet long scrape on the lower aft fuselage.
My opions are mine, not my employers
 
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CALTECH
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:50 pm

Wonder if it was a round of flat bulkhead, more than likely the flat. Wonder if that has anything to do with it also and how it took the damage versus a old round bulkhead ?
You are here.
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 11):
AFAIK it's three. BUR in 2000, LGA last year, and this one.

Has the LGA aircraft been written off yet? I assume it will be, but I wasn't sure if they had made the final decision. Also, what happened to the Overrun at MDW a few years ago? Was that plane repaired and put back into service?
 
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ODwyerPW
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:15 pm

Southwest doesn't go for the flat bulkhead options on it's planes.
learning never stops.
 
cschleic
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:25 pm

Has Southwest been operating the -800's for two years? This must have been an early one?
 
71Zulu
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 14):
Also, what happened to the Overrun at MDW a few years ago? Was that plane repaired and put back into service?

Yes it was fixed and then re-registered from N471WN to N286WN.
 
7673mech
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 3):
All the interior, avionics, and engines can all go towards a new Southwest 737-800. So its not as big of a loss as it seems.

No they can't easily go into a new airplane (for certification reasons), however they certainly can be used for spares on new airplanes.
 
71Zulu
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:37 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 16):
Has Southwest been operating the -800's for two years? This must have been an early one?

Will be two years next month, first one delivered 8 Mar 2012 and N8327A was the 31st -800 for them.
 
n92r03
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 2):
My guess is it was a huge number to fix the plane and it's worth more to part it out than to fix it.

Bingo. If expected cost to repair plus expected salvage value is equal to or greater than the value of the item, it is a total loss and sold for scrap.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 17):
Yes it was fixed and then re-registered from N471WN to N286WN.

Me thinks the OP would have jumped all over that one, considering his/her user name!
 
KELPkid
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:53 pm

I'm suprised that an "incident*" (accident?) serious enough to do this amount of damage didn't leave the aircraft disabled on the runway. I hope the flight crew isn't in hot water over the incident 

* I don't know if it met the accident criteria for NTSB 830 or not...or if it is merely an FAA investigation. But it might have just become an NTSB "accident" because the aircraft was written off.
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KELPkid
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm

P.S. how on Earth do you scrape the tail on landing? Did they float along in ground effect "feeling" for the runway? The only people I know of that have banged the tail on landing (in Cessna's) have usually involved an aft CG. I scraped the tail tie down once, but it was because I overrotated on a short field takeoff...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 17):
Yes it was fixed and then re-registered from N471WN to N286WN.

Why re-register?

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 20):
Bingo. If expected cost to repair plus expected salvage value is equal to or greater than the value of the item, it is a total loss and sold for scrap.

I find it hard to imagine the aircraft would have sustained such damage, and depreciation in value to warrant a write-off after a tail strike. Could anyone please tell me why this would be the case for WN?
 
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kc135topboom
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:07 pm

I believe this is only the second hull loss for WN. WN-1455 at BUR was their first write-off. AFAIK there has not been a decision yet on WN-345 at LGA.
 
roseflyer
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 3):
All the interior, avionics, and engines can all go towards a new Southwest 737-800. So its not as big of a loss as it seems.

Used airplane parts can't be installed on new airplanes, but can be used as spare parts. Everything on a new plane is new.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
I believe this is only the second hull loss for WN. WN-1455 at BUR was their first write-off. AFAIK there has not been a decision yet on WN-345 at LGA.

That's what I thought... But I am assuming the LGA aircraft will be scrapped.
 
MSPNWA
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:21 pm

I'm pretty much shocked that this aircraft will not be repaired. It's a nearly brand-new 738, an aircraft in high demand. This stands in stark contrast to the decision to repair NW's N311US five years ago after its tail strike at DEN. In that case an old A320 is repaired even when its sister ships had already been retired. Interesting.
 
hivue
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
I believe this is only the second hull loss for WN. WN-1455 at BUR was their first write-off. AFAIK there has not been a decision yet on WN-345 at LGA.

Was the LAS tail strike on landing? If so and if the LGA airframe is a W/O then WN has an unenviable record for destroying airplanes in relatively minor landing accidents (I realize that a couple of lives unfortunately were lost in a car in the BUR incident).
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
KELPkid
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 23):
I find it hard to imagine the aircraft would have sustained such damage, and depreciation in value to warrant a write-off after a tail strike. Could anyone please tell me why this would be the case for WN?

Part of the issue is that Boeing and Airbus are manufacturing new narrowbodies at breakneck pace right now, which is depressing the second-hand market, and at the same time making production improvements to newer aircraft which, though things like effeciency gains, makes a second hand plane worth that much less. The upcoming NEO and MAX models aren't helping things, either.
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glbltrvlr
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
the powers that be do not believe that a bulkhead repair is an economic repair---even on a new aircraft.

Doesn't surprise me at all. All the 737 suppliers are going flat out to meet the new production demand and there is talk of bumping production to over 50/month which will make new components even harder to find.

Virtually everything on that aircraft is reusable: interiors, seats, galleys, avionics, engines, apu, environmental systems, valves, wheels, brakes. flight controls. Shoot - even structural parts like flaps, slats and windows can be removed and either slotted into new production or used as spares. And the value of spares sales to operators is almost always significantly more than what Boeing pays for production.

Pretty easy to compare the value of the recoverable components and the labor it takes to recover them with the labor required to repair a major part of the fuselage, add in the weight penalty for a repaired aircraft and the potential for reduced airframe life and decide it isn't worth it.
 
Ont2CGi
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
believe this is only the second hull loss for WN. WN-1455 at BUR was their first write-off. AFAIK there has not been a decision yet on WN-345 at LGA.

According to the Port of Albany, it's going to be cut up:
http://www.timesunion.com/default/ar...le/Jet-bound-for-scrap-5187232.php
 
n471wn
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:30 pm

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 20):
Me thinks the OP would have jumped all over that one, considering his/her user name!

I was just beaten to the punch!!
 
Viscount724
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 23):
Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 17):
Yes it was fixed and then re-registered from N471WN to N286WN.

Why re-register?

Possibly to obscure the fact that it was involved in a fatal accident. Other aircraft involved in fatal accidents have also been re-registered after repair. One that comes to mind was the UA 747-100 that lost the forward cargo door and a large section of fuselage skin after takeoff on a HNL-AKL flight in 1989, causing 9 business class passengers to plunge to their deaths in the Pacific (at least one ingested into an engine if memory correct). It was re-registered from N4713U to N4724U after repairs.

 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:27 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
Possibly to obscure the fact that it was involved in a fatal accident. Other aircraft involved in fatal accidents have also been re-registered after repair. One that comes to mind was the UA 747-100 that lost the forward cargo door and a large section of fuselage skin after takeoff on a HNL-AKL flight in 1989, causing 9 business class passengers to plunge to their deaths in the Pacific (at least one ingested into an engine if memory correct). It was re-registered from N4713U to N4724U after repairs.

Valid point... but the WN incident didn't kill anyone on the plane, which is why the WN fanboys keep claiming they have never killed a passenger. So why bother to re-register if all passengers were safe? If we use that logic, there are probably many aircraft that should be re-registered due to ground incidents involving a death (usually ground crew)
 
Viscount724
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 35):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
Possibly to obscure the fact that it was involved in a fatal accident. Other aircraft involved in fatal accidents have also been re-registered after repair. One that comes to mind was the UA 747-100 that lost the forward cargo door and a large section of fuselage skin after takeoff on a HNL-AKL flight in 1989, causing 9 business class passengers to plunge to their deaths in the Pacific (at least one ingested into an engine if memory correct). It was re-registered from N4713U to N4724U after repairs.

Valid point... but the WN incident didn't kill anyone on the plane, which is why the WN fanboys keep claiming they have never killed a passenger. So why bother to re-register if all passengers were safe?

It's still a fatal accident if anyone dies. Makes no difference whether the fatalities are on the aircraft or the ground.
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
It's still a fatal accident if anyone dies. Makes no difference whether the fatalities are on the aircraft or the ground.

So, WN can no longer claim they have not had a fatal accident? I guess that is a compromise.  
 
SXDFC
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:41 am

I've done some poking around, and it turns out this plane WONT be scrapped. The source is the few and very reliable folks that I know throughout the WN system. A/C 8327 will return to service soon.
 
KELPkid
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 37):
So, WN can no longer claim they have not had a fatal accident? I guess that is a compromise.

Let's put it this way: no one who has ever paid for safe passage on WN has ever died on a WN flight due to WN's negligence. That fact still stands   

[Edited 2014-02-12 16:48:03]
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:48 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 38):
I've done some poking around, and it turns out this plane WONT be scrapped. The source is the few and very reliable folks that I know throughout the WN system. A/C 8327 will return to service soon.

That would be a nice thing to happen. But I doubt it would have been ferried back to the factory with little word on what is going on if it were to return to service. So I will hold off on passing judgement until we know for sure!
 
SXDFC
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 40):
That would be a nice thing to happen. But I doubt it would have been ferried back to the factory with little word on what is going on if it were to return to service. So I will hold off on passing judgement until we know for sure!

Well look at it like this, EK had an A345 that ferried from Australia to France a few years back after suffering a similar issue, the plane later returned to service. A/C 8327 suffered from the same type of incident, combined with its very young age ( The -700 that overran in MDW was roughly the same age ) still has many years of life left. A/C 8327 will be just fine and will be free to pursue a life of religious fulfillment.  
 
tyler81190
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 39):
Let's put it this way: no one who has ever paid for safe passage on WN has ever died on a WN flight due to WN's negligence. That fact still stands

No, but an innocent bystander died... Apparantly, still considered a fatal accident.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 41):
A/C 8327 will be just fine and will be free to pursue a life of religious fulfillment.  

Surely you can't be serious  
 
Raventech
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:35 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 40):

Actually it makes perfect sense. If the damage is bad enough to consider scrapping, then SWA mechanics are not likely to do the repair. Boeing AOG is probably going to be performing the repair and its probably more economical to fly the plane low altitude to them versus shipping all their equipment, supplies, and parts which are all local to the Seattle area.
 
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gdg9
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:53 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 38):

I've done some poking around, and it turns out this plane WONT be scrapped. The source is the few and very reliable folks that I know throughout the WN system. A/C 8327 will return to service soon.

So OP has it being scrapped, but your sources have it being repaired. I wonder how it will end up then.
@dfwtower
 
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Francoflier
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:00 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
the powers that be do not believe that a bulkhead repair is an economic repair

I'll join myself to a few others up here and say that this is a perfect example of how much value these narrowbody frames have lost in the current market.
They're being sold and produced by the hundreds. So fast that it's hard to see any room for a second hand market in any of this, and if there is, it will certainly not be capable of absorbing that many frames. That means non-new frames have little value.

Airlines treat these things much the way car rental companies treat their fleet. Buy by the thousands and use and abuse them while they can. If anything happens to them, just scrap them and move on. It's easier to write one off and wait for the next one to be delivered than to spend time and money to have it fixed.
Of course in the case of an aircraft, the value of all the remaining parts (engines, avionics, etc.) make for an ever worse case for putting it back together.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
n471wn
Topic Author
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting baqnav (Reply 12):
A US Airways Airbus A321-200, registration N560UW performing flight US-1733 from Charlotte,NC to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 186 passengers and 6 crew, landed on Las Vegas' runway 25L at about 12:50L (19:50Z) but struck its tail onto the runway on touchdown.

This is the same runway (25L) that the SWA tail strike was on

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 38):
I've done some poking around, and it turns out this plane WONT be scrapped. The source is the few and very reliable folks that I know throughout the WN system. A/C 8327 will return to service soon.

I do hope you are right and I am wrong---my source is ATDB.org and they are usually very reliable and they have a definitive statement that it will be scrapped but I pray your sources are right
 
n7371f
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:05 am

Quoting N471WN (Reply 46):

Quoting baqnav (Reply 12):
A US Airways Airbus A321-200, registration N560UW performing flight US-1733 from Charlotte,NC to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 186 passengers and 6 crew, landed on Las Vegas' runway 25L at about 12:50L (19:50Z) but struck its tail onto the runway on touchdown.

This is the same runway (25L) that the SWA tail strike was on

That's the runway that handles over 50% of arrivals here.
 
n7371f
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:08 am

Wonder what happened to the crew..Fired? Very possible.
 
B757capt
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:41 am

I find this very hard to believe. WN did extensive work to this aircraft before it was flown again.

I bet this bird will be back flying soon.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
captainstorck
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2 Year Old WN 738 (N8327A) - To Be Scrapped?

Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 48):
Wonder what happened to the crew..Fired? Very possible.

Unless the crew tried to cover up the incident or was otherwise dishonest regarding the situation I would very highly doubt their careers are in jeopardy.

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