Mir
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 149):
Airlines never seem to have a problem doing it if everyone matches. If everyone does not match, carriers often withdraw/reverse the changes.

It's an industry-wide problem, so everyone will be matching.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 149):
And if we are talking about a fare increase due to regional costs, why in the world would WN (who initiates more of the increases than a lot of folks realize, by the way) match?

The markets most likely to be affected aren't markets that WN serves anyway. So it wouldn't matter much.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:22 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 150):
The markets most likely to be affected aren't markets that WN serves anyway. So it wouldn't matter much.

Incorrect. If United is having problems with regional costs, that's going to affect markets like BNA (all regional), STL (all regional save a flight or two) and MKE (all regional).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ckfred
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:23 pm

AMR had shopped Eagle for some time. I had a conversation with an Eagle F/O back in 2012, before the Chapter 11 filing. He said the problem was that AMR wanted to see Eagle, while holding onto all of the Embrears. So, if anyone bought Eagle, it would have had the CRJ700s, a lot of employees, and a lot of leased Embrears.

At anytime, AMR could have started parking the Embrears. So, Eagle would have had some CRJs and a lot of pilots, F/As, and mechanics with no planes.

Then, there was a proposal by the APA to put all AMR pilots on one contract, with the APA as the collective bargaining agent. APA thought it made sense for every last AMR pilot to be represented by one union, and it was tired of management playing mainline and Eagle pilots off each other.

If every AMR pilot was on the same contract, with the same union representation, than the decision whether to fly an RJ or a mainline jet on a route would be based on traffic demands and not the disparity in pay between what Eagle and mainline pilots.

Now, I know management wasn't enthusiastic about the proposal, since it would have increased pay at Ealge. But, I seem to recall that ALPA wasn't thrilled with the idea, and it wasn't just because ALPA would lose a large number of members. My guess is that it had something to do with seniority, and that a lot of AA F/Os who were stuck in the right seat would have used their seniority to get left-hand seat flying on Embrears and CRJs.
 
commavia
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 152):
He said the problem was that AMR wanted to see Eagle, while holding onto all of the Embrears. So, if anyone bought Eagle, it would have had the CRJ700s, a lot of employees, and a lot of leased Embrears.

True, although I doubt that was really all that big an issue, since AMR was always very clear that a standalone Eagle would retain long-term capacity purchase contracts covering most if not all the ERJs, regardless of which legal entity's books the ERJ titles were kept on. That was actually done specifically as an enticement to try and get someone to take Eagle off AMR's hands, but to no avail.

I think the bigger reason why AMR was unable to monetize Eagle - after it waited too long - was simply that investors by and large got this one right, and recognized the impending trainwreck of the regional airline industry as overcapacity, spiking fuel and crew shortages conspired to turn this segment into the horrible business it is right now, and will continue to be until more substantial shakeout occurs.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 152):
At anytime, AMR could have started parking the Embrears.

True, although at exorbitantly uneconomic cost levels, as AMR was carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in liabilities tied to inflated asset values for the ERJs as their market value tanked when fuel spiked. That was probably one of the biggest single restructuring items undertaken during Chapter 11 - renegotiating those liabilities with Embraer to adjust them to more market-realistic (lower) asset carrying values.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 152):
Then, there was a proposal by the APA to put all AMR pilots on one contract, with the APA as the collective bargaining agent. APA thought it made sense for every last AMR pilot to be represented by one union, and it was tired of management playing mainline and Eagle pilots off each other.

My understanding is that APA actually rejected such a proposal - from the company - several decades ago. Ironic.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 152):
If every AMR pilot was on the same contract, with the same union representation, than the decision whether to fly an RJ or a mainline jet on a route would be based on traffic demands and not the disparity in pay between what Eagle and mainline pilots.

It would still be at least partly based on the disparity in pilot pay between the larger and smaller jet, just as it is now - in that case perhaps even more so because, relatively higher-paid pilots would then have made up an even larger portion of the overall variable costs of operating a small jet. Nonetheless, there would still have been a dramatic difference in pay between a 737 and ERJ captain, whether represented by the same CBA or not. Combining lists would perhaps have narrowed the difference somewhat, but not eliminated it.
 
oc2dc
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:14 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 137):
ExpressJet is deeply loss making, the current costs aren't covered by the rates they charge the mainline carrier.

Who's fault is that? They decided to bid so low that they can't even cover their costs...I realize they were competing against a half a dozen other regional carriers, but their has to be a point where you absolutely say no...especially when there is a pilot shortage on the horizon and the cards will be in the regionals favor if they play them right.

Quoting norcal (Reply 148):
All of this poor operations planning leads to misconnections and upset passengers, sometimes the company even has to pay for hotels rooms

An MQ captain told me a couple years ago about a time where a gate agent closed out a LAX-SJC flight early leaving 9 passengers behind. It was the last flight out to SJC for the night and the plane was going to be RON'ing at SJC. 9 of the passengers appeared 10 minutes before the actual departure time and the gate agent refused to open up the flight and let them on. The captain protested and even called ops to demand that they let the passengers onboard, but his attempts failed and the flight left 9 paying, timely, furious passengers behind. On a plane with just 45 seats and a plane that was apparently only half full, you would think you would want those 9 paying passengers....Apparently this is a story that his been repeated multiple times like norcal said.

Quoting norcal (Reply 148):
There are a ton of examples of things like this that result from poor operational planning and bean counters trying to run everything on the cheap. It looks great on paper, but as soon as something goes wrong, which it does since it is an airline, the whole thing falls apart. We are talking easily millions of dollars a year, tens of millions in the case of larger regionals.

You genuinely hit the nail on the head with this whole statement. I have heard of countless inefficiencies that could be corrected but aren't b/c of poor management.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
Mir
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 151):
If United is having problems with regional costs, that's going to affect markets like BNA (all regional), STL (all regional save a flight or two) and MKE (all regional).

Which can be subsidized by bumping up fares to markets like FAR, CMI, GVL, etc. Again, we're not talking about huge differences here, and if it allows those markets to continue to get service, people will pay it.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 154):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 137):
ExpressJet is deeply loss making, the current costs aren't covered by the rates they charge the mainline carrier.

Who's fault is that?

It's mainline's fault for demanding something they should have known was unrealistic. And it's the regional's fault for offering it. So they share responsibility.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 155):
Again, we're not talking about huge differences here, and if it allows those markets to continue to get service, people will pay it.

But we haven't seen people paying the fares necessary for service at all sorts of EAS markets that have lost their service. What's different in the markets you've identified?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MIflyer12
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 150):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 149):
Airlines never seem to have a problem doing it if everyone matches. If everyone does not match, carriers often withdraw/reverse the changes.

It's an industry-wide problem, so everyone will be matching.

No, it isn't. WN is still the 2nd or 3rd largest domestic carrier and has zero RJs. Delta is dropping 80 50-seaters this year (and also has the fully whipsawed Endeavor to hold down costs for a while).
 
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par13del
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 155):
And it's the regional's fault for offering it.

We call them Regionals, but are they really airlines in and of themselves, do they own their own planes, lease their own planes, have their own routes all of which in addition to crew are essential to having a functional airline.
Airlines within an airline failed, the new regional format appears to be heading down the same road, and both are failing for the same reason, no one can agree on a pay scale that will allow airlines to operate RJ's in addition to their larger a/c.
 
Mir
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 156):
But we haven't seen people paying the fares necessary for service at all sorts of EAS markets that have lost their service.

None of the markets I mentioned are EAS markets.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 157):
WN is still the 2nd or 3rd largest domestic carrier and has zero RJs. Delta is dropping 80 50-seaters this year (and also has the fully whipsawed Endeavor to hold down costs for a while).

As mentioned, WN is absent from so many markets that they're not a factor. And Delta having Endeavor is only good as long as Endeavor can attract pilots at their payscales (same with AA and PSA). Just because they can put a lot of airplanes at one carrier doesn't mean that carrier will be able to find pilots to fly them. And then they're useless.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tyler81190
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 156):
But we haven't seen people paying the fares necessary for service at all sorts of EAS markets that have lost their service. What's different in the markets you've identified?

Well, EAS markets usually only have one carrier... In a lot of cases it is ZK, which lets be honest, is an awful excuse for "scheduled" service...

In other locations there is actually demand for flying, and usually competition. So a small fare hike would probably go unnoticed for a lot of people... And who knows, the other carriers may do it too!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 160):
Well, EAS markets usually only have one carrier... In a lot of cases it is ZK, which lets be honest, is an awful excuse for "scheduled" service...

How about all of the Midwest (and a few southern) markets that had AL or XJ?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
tyler81190
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:03 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 161):
How about all of the Midwest (and a few southern) markets that had AL or XJ?

I am saying that most EAS markets only have one carrier... Many markets had ZK, but in the southeast there were other operators.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 162):
I am saying that most EAS markets only have one carrier...

Doesn't CMI, one of the examples Mir cited, satisfy the "only one carrier" criteria? They have some one-off casino stuff (IFP on SY comes to mind), but MQ is their only scheduled carrier.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Logos
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:44 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 148):
So many things that need to be fixed, but management always went after labor because it was easy. It was very easy to make up for losses from gross incompetence by threatening employees, especially pilots, with concessions.

It's been easy because there have been so many people who want to fly airplanes for a living, even if it really isn't much of a living at all, and a lot of people who will work in support roles at effectively minimum wage if there are flight benefits to be had. The new crew training regulations are what are really driving the revolution here because there isn't an oversupply of pilots with those qualifications.

The surviving regional carriers are going to be the ones who get their act together in the other parts of the operation. There will be a lot of blood letting along the way and consolidation at the regional level much like we've seen at the legacy level. And, ultimately, there will be higher fares.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
norcal
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:02 pm

Quoting Logos (Reply 164):
The new crew training regulations are what are really driving the revolution here because there isn't an oversupply of pilots with those qualifications.

No, the new requirements are not the problem. Even Bryan Bedford, who would have no reason to admit so, has said that switching back to the old rules wouldn't help the shortage long term.

The pilots physically exist now to solve the regional staffing crisis. However these pilots have remained on the sidelines or in other parts of the aviation industry for years because they do not want to work for the wages regionals are paying.

This problem has been brewing for the better part of 10 years. The regionals are in a serious amount of trouble
 
Mir
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting Logos (Reply 164):
The new crew training regulations are what are really driving the revolution here because there isn't an oversupply of pilots with those qualifications.

For now, yes. But give it five years and there probably won't be enough pilots generally, even if they could be hired at low experience levels.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Logos
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 166):
For now, yes. But give it five years and there probably won't be enough pilots generally, even if they could be hired at low experience levels.

True, this was going to happen at some point regardless. It's happening now because of the minimum training requirements. It's supply and demand and, for labor, the balance of those things is changing and will continue to change. As in all things business, those who adapt (both companies and individuals) will survive. I'm betting the under on Envoy (nee Eagle) being one of those who do.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
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Acey559
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:40 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 148):

You hit just about every nail on the head with that post. If our paths ever cross the first beer is on me. I bet we have some pretty funny stories to tell.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
9w748capt
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:09 pm

So what happens to outstations like my hometown AZO? Currently majority of flights are Chautauqua which absolutely stinks - AZO-ORD is barely ever ontime anymore. Will they just switch to Eagle/Envoy? Will there be enough pilots to do even that? Does AZO get cut completely?
 
tyler81190
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 169):
So what happens to outstations like my hometown AZO? Currently majority of flights are Chautauqua which absolutely stinks - AZO-ORD is barely ever ontime anymore. Will they just switch to Eagle/Envoy? Will there be enough pilots to do even that? Does AZO get cut completely?

they will have to do something, Chautauqua is being closed down by RP, and folded into their other ops. Those planes will be parked.
 
9w748capt
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:36 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 170):

Any idea what they'll do? FWIW AA.com still shows Chautauqua operating 3+ flights a day on AZO-ORD well into November. Obviously that will be adjusted as this unfolds, but that's what it says for now. Wow - this has potentially monumental repercussions for air connectivity in the US. Will make visiting the folks a whole hell of a lot harder if places like AZO lose air service.
 
norcal
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:51 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 169):
So what happens to outstations like my hometown AZO? Currently majority of flights are Chautauqua which absolutely stinks - AZO-ORD is barely ever ontime anymore. Will they just switch to Eagle/Envoy? Will there be enough pilots to do even that? Does AZO get cut completely?

That RP chicago flying will end up getting covered by Eagle ERJs. There will likely be some reduced frequencies and maybe the loss of a city or two but it will just be a shuffle. As the E-175s come online (or at least they try to staff them) they will replace the current CRJ-700 that Eagle does. Those CRJ-700s are supposedly heading to NY, according to a few Eagle friends I have.

It will be interesting to see if Eagle can cover this flying, apparently they have 6 ERJs parked as "operational spares," so they show up in the system but there aren't pilots to fly them. That is what I've heard, maybe an Eagle guy can confirm.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:31 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 172):
It will be interesting to see if Eagle can cover this flying, apparently they have 6 ERJs parked as "operational spares," so they show up in the system but there aren't pilots to fly them. That is what I've heard, maybe an Eagle guy can confirm.

Are those on top of whatever spares MQ ordinarily keeps at hubs? They definitely have seemed to have some around to cover broken/delayed/stuck airplanes in the past.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Dtw757
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:55 pm

There are all kinds of rumors going around but you may as well throw this one into the mix. Rumor has Air Wisconsin coming to ORD to operate flights for AA.
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apodino
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:04 pm

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 174):
There are all kinds of rumors going around but you may as well throw this one into the mix. Rumor has Air Wisconsin coming to ORD to operate flights for AA.

That rumor has been going around for months. I will believe it when I see it.
 
DashTrash
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 172):
That RP chicago flying will end up getting covered by Eagle ERJs.

Where will they find the crews? I thought Eagle was short staffed and getting worse.
 
tyler81190
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 176):
Where will they find the crews? I thought Eagle was short staffed and getting worse.

That's what I would like to know... Also, I doubt AA will give MQ the flying so quickly after saying they would be liquidated.
 
norcal
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 173):
Are those on top of whatever spares MQ ordinarily keeps at hubs? They definitely have seemed to have some around to cover broken/delayed/stuck airplanes in the past.

My understanding is that these are supposed to be flying right now but that they do not have the crews to fly them.

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 174):
There are all kinds of rumors going around but you may as well throw this one into the mix. Rumor has Air Wisconsin coming to ORD to operate flights for AA.

Then who will cover Air Whiskey's flying?

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 176):
Where will they find the crews? I thought Eagle was short staffed and getting worse

I don't know….I'm just guessing that would be the AAG's plan since it is easiest. Plans are often thwarted by reality though. Just like I think the plan to give the jets, originally intended to Eagle, to another carrier as punishment for the rejection of the AIP will fail.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 178):

Then who will cover Air Whiskey's flying?

I would think some of the flying come from the DCA slot divestiture.
 
Dtw757
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 177):
That's what I would like to know... Also, I doubt AA will give MQ the flying so quickly after saying they would be liquidated.

They have never said MQ will be liquidated.
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9w748capt
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:09 pm

Ugh - more CR2s (If the Air Wisky rumor is true)? No thanks.
 
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Acey559
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:38 am

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 180):

Actually they did. Multiple times we were told we would be Comair 2. Real nice guys we have down there in Fort Worth.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 181):
more CR2s (If the Air Wisky rumor is true)? No thanks.

They're coming anyway through the US merger, both Whisky and PSA. The question is which hubs will see them.

The DCA divestment means that there will be some free CR2s floating around soon as most of the routes cut were CR2 routes.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
tyler81190
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 180):
They have never said MQ will be liquidated.

Umm, yes they have... Be it an empty threat or not, they have said it in regards to this latest AIP being rejected. Though to be fair, they did say they would downsize MQ first... Then liquidate.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 182):
Actually they did. Multiple times we were told we would be Comair 2. Real nice guys we have down there in Fort Worth.

I wish all of the MQ staff the best of luck should AA decide to liquidate.
 
apodino
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 183):
They're coming anyway through the US merger, both Whisky and PSA. The question is which hubs will see them.

The DCA divestment means that there will be some free CR2s floating around soon as most of the routes cut were CR2 routes.

Not exactly. The slots divested were mainline slots. US/AA used this as cover to cut underperforming routes. If you look a little closer, you will also find that there is capacity added to existing CR2 routes, and this is replacing the routes that were cut. I believe BDL for example gained a R/T out of this.
 
capejet
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:02 am

Question: does American Eagle still have the 37 seat RJ in its fleet, or is the 44 seater now its smallest?
 
Turboprop72
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:44 am

The EMB 140 44 seat is the smallest now in Eagles fleet.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 185):

Not exactly. The slots divested were mainline slots. US/AA used this as cover to cut underperforming routes. If you look a little closer, you will also find that there is capacity added to existing CR2 routes, and this is replacing the routes that were cut. I believe BDL for example gained a R/T out of this.

As far as I know...the schedule hasn't been loaded right? I can still book DTW-DCA all the way into November...which is one of the routes to be cut.
 
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Acey559
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:59 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 184):
I wish all of the MQ staff the best of luck should AA decide to liquidate.

That's very much appreciated. Personally, I'm incredibly lucky to have just found a new job and Wednesday is my last day at Eagle. It's been a lot of fun and I'm proud to have flown for Eagle, but I stumbled across a fantastic opportunity and couldn't turn it down. So that's one more of us gone and I know it's only going to get worse.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
9w748capt
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 188):

Correct - still shows Chautauqua flights scheduled into December as well. I'm surprised this isn't causing more of a stir. If this pilot shortage is as true as advertised, I think a lot of smaller stations stand to lose service entirely (at least from AA) - would that be accurate? Last thing we need is for DL to have places like AZO all to themselves. It's AA's fault though. Greedy Dougie rakes in $64 mil while refusing to pay his regional pilots a living wage. Nice going buddy.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 189):
Personally, I'm incredibly lucky to have just found a new job and Wednesday is my last day at Eagle. It's been a lot of fun and I'm proud to have flown for Eagle, but I stumbled across a fantastic opportunity and couldn't turn it down.

Is it in General Aviation? I've been noticing a heck of a lot more airline pilots history forms come across my desk lately. I wouldn't doubt to see a mini boom in small/mid sized business jets and turboprops in the next few years if airlines continue to cut cities. This would be good for pilot pay too as they usually pay pretty well and have much better hours.
 
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coronado
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RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 169):
Does AZO get cut completely?

I am afraid I have to agree with Mike Boyd who predicts your future airport code will be GRR. Less than 60 miles or 1 hour driving time. I wish I had an regional airport this close with service to as many directions as GRR offers. I am about 30 miles driving time to CMX and about 120 miles to MQT (SAW). I wish the politicians in Upper Michigan would get together and create a regional airport (WUP=Western Upper Peninsula) probably around the Covington MI area which would then be less than 1 1/2 hour drive to Ironwood, Iron Mountain, Marquette, Houghton, etc i.e. the major towns in the UP and convenient to both Michigan Tech University and Northern Michigan University and maybe could sustain daily omni directional flights at least to MSP, DTW and ORD. GRB is the closest airport with multiple carrier service radiating in different directions and that is a tough 5 hour drive even in decent weather.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting Coronado (Reply 192):
I am afraid I have to agree with Mike Boyd who predicts your future airport code will be GRR. Less than 60 miles or 1 hour driving time. I wish I had an regional airport this close with service to as many directions as GRR offers. I am about 30 miles driving time to CMX and about 120 miles to MQT (SAW). I wish the politicians in Upper Michigan would get together and create a regional airport (WUP=Western Upper Peninsula) probably around the Covington MI area which would then be less than 1 1/2 hour drive to Ironwood, Iron Mountain, Marquette, Houghton, etc i.e. the major towns in the UP and convenient to both Michigan Tech University and Northern Michigan University and maybe could sustain daily omni directional flights at least to MSP, DTW and ORD. GRB is the closest airport with multiple carrier service radiating in different directions and that is a tough 5 hour drive even in decent weather.

Not surprised at all - in fact I often use GRR if it's significantly cheaper. Barely 45 minutes to my parents' house, which is often what people routinely drive to reach an airport. Heck even in OKC I'm 15-20 minutes on a good day, so what's another 20. Writing's been on the wall IMO - while AZO has shrunk to the degree that makes the new terminal look as empty as Mirabel, GRR continues to grow. If AZO ever loses service completely, what a waste of taxpayer dollars that new terminal would be. Ridiculous.
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:41 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 191):

It is. I'll be flying an Embraer Legacy and starting pay is more than double what I make after three years at Eagle.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1311
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 194):
It is. I'll be flying an Embraer Legacy and starting pay is more than double what I make after three years at Eagle.

Get familiar with "coffee, ice and papers....". 
 
tyler81190
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:28 am

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 194):
It is. I'll be flying an Embraer Legacy and starting pay is more than double what I make after three years at Eagle.

Congratulations! I am sure you will enjoy it more that MQ haha.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 195):
Get familiar with "coffee, ice and papers...."

And "where the hell are the passengers, they were supposed to be here an hour ago..."

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 182):
Actually they did. Multiple times we were told we would be Comair 2. Real nice guys we have down there in Fort Worth.
Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 184):
Umm, yes they have... Be it an empty threat or not, they have said it in regards to this latest AIP being rejected. Though to be fair, they did say they would downsize MQ first... Then liquidate.

I agree with downsize but the word liquidate was never used. Envoy will continue on for now with flying and ground handling. It will be a much smaller flying operation but it will continue into the foreseeable future.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: AE/Envoy MEC Reject AIP

Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 198):

The specific word liquidate was never used, no. But the term Comair 2 is pretty evident and we all knew what they meant by it. Now they've already walked that back after we told them to shove it.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.

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