Calgary International Airport has become the third busiest airport in Canada ahead of Montreal's Pierre Elliot Trudeau.
Montreal is three times the size and has a lot more international flights, but it is amazing what a good economy can do - plus location.

Just think, when the new parallel runway opens this year and the International/Transborder terminal in 2015 YYC will be swimming in A380's, 748's and flights to every continent except Antarctica.

Quoting c172akula (Reply 1): Just think, when the new parallel runway opens this year and the International/Transborder terminal in 2015 YYC will be swimming in A380's, 748's and flights to every continent except Antarctica.

Okay - I get the 748s.

Who would be flying the 380s?

Dumb question, but is YYR #2

YYR is number 2.

The only A380 that will ever come to YYC will be a promotional thing, a passenger emergency, or cargo. 747-8 already fly into there via Cargolux.

Quoting United787 (Reply 3): Dumb question, but is YYR #2

still yes ... 17.9M YVR versus 14.3M YYC

if westjet continues their explosive growth at calgary, there might be a chance of it overtaking YVR in 10 years time

Quoting United787 (Reply 3): Dumb question, but is YYR #2

He He. Goose Bay. Definitely number two! I've been there in Feb. What a hotspot! Kidding. Know you meant Vancouver (YVR).

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 2): Who would be flying the 380s?

Sarcasm there, bud.  

Quoting ytz (Reply 6): He He. Goose Bay. Definitely number two! I've been there in Feb. What a hotspot! Kidding. Know you meant Vancouver (YVR).

Oops

Would be curious to see stats related to the number of Canadian passengers from the YUL area that drive to BTV or PBG. I bet this has an impact (not sure how significant) on the number of passengers going through YUL. I personally use BTV often even though YUL is closer.

FDH

Quoting a380787 (Reply 5): if westjet continues their explosive growth at calgary, there might be a chance of it overtaking YVR in 10 years time

This is a possibility, but don't forget that WS are growing at YVR, too, with their heavy Hawaii presence. AC basing their Western Rouge ops out of YVR will probably be good for numbers as well, since both WS and Rouge want to counter travelers flying out of BLI and SEA, which isn't an issue in YYC.

I'd be quite surprised to not see WS or AC (Rouge) go year round on YYC/YEG-Hawaii ops once they have the metal that can operate the route with no penalty (speaking to the 737 ops).

Quoting c172akula (Reply 11): I'd be quite surprised to not see WS or AC (Rouge) go year round on YYC/YEG-Hawaii ops once they have the metal that can operate the route with no penalty (speaking to the 737 ops).

Maybe with the MAX a/c, to avoid leasing Thomas Cook 757s.

If YYC was in reasonable driving distance of a sizable U.S. airport, it's traffic would probably be significantly lower. YYC air traffic benefits from it's rather isolated location, as well as from its strong economy (currently). YYC has also known low points in the past due to it's cyclical economy based largely on the oil industry.

FIrst off, it would have been good to wait until YUL publishes its full year passenger figures, but yes, YYC will surely surpass YUL in 2013. YUL also surpassed the 14 million mark in 2013, but only on Dec 30th, so 14.3 million wont be reachable, unfortunately ! Here's me hoping the folks over at YUL forgot to add 200,000 or so non-rev pax to the tally !

Quoting FDH (Reply 9): Would be curious to see stats related to the number of Canadian passengers from the YUL area that drive to BTV or PBG. I bet this has an impact (not sure how significant) on the number of passengers going through YUL. I personally use BTV often even though YUL is closer

Not only BTV and PBG.
YUL is within 6 hours driving time to cities such as New York, Toronto, Boston, etc. Not to mention well established train networks, including Amtrak to New York. Convenient connecting trains at New York extend your reach to Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC. Count the number of people who drive or take the train to these places, and you understand partly why a city of 3.8 million and that of 1 million have the same passenger count.

Name me a significant city within 6 hours driving time from YYC? or any train service? There aren't any. Most trains across Alberta pass through Edmonton. As the OP said, location (or rather isolation) plays a huge factor in YYC's impressive numbers. But let's not forget that YUL and YYC serve two different demographics entirely. Of the 14.3 million pax at YYC, over 10 million were on domestic flights. Only 1.3 million passengers traveled internationally (not counting USA). In fact, intl passenger count was down 0.67% in 2013 at YYC compared to the previous year, and hasn't seen any significant increase since 2010. Which is why reply 1 above is laughable at best, assuming it wasn't meant as a joke in the first place, because that's all it is !

Quebecers, on the other hand are not know to travel domestically, as they share little in common with the rest of Canada in terms of culture and so on. They rather leave the country altogether. It is who they are ! YUL handles over 4 times as many international travelers than YYC. So you see, these are entirely two different markets. And btw, unlike YYC, all three flight segments (domestic, intl and transborder) out of YUL will see % increases in 2013.

Congrats to YYC, i'm not taking anything away from them at all ! It was bound to happen. But the point remains...... If you want to travel to Calgary, you have almost no choice but to fly. Montreal, on the other hand, you have several other options !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-13 18:25:32]

Quoting Acey (Reply 7): Who would be flying the 380s? Sarcasm there, bud

Hardly.

I've seen 744s and MD 11s at YYC

I can't see the passenger traffic necessary to bring in a 380 on a scheduled basis.

Quoting beatyair (Reply 4): The only A380 that will ever come to YYC will be a promotional thing, a passenger emergency, or cargo.

With balloons, candy, and flags? Okay, I get it.

It's not like it surpassed YUL to become third busiest airport again in Canada. Wasn't YYC like that back in the 1990's?
I recall at one point looking at some past stats that YYC was third busiest for a little bit before Montreal surpassed. This may of been when YMX was still around though.

Give another 12-18 months when the new World Class Terminal and State of the art runway opens, I can almost sense the lineups of A380's and 747i's and Westjet heavies as far as the eye can see starting with double daily Emirates lol. Better retrofit the rest of the gates with double airbridges..

In all seriousness, definitely a great year going beyond expectations. I honestly gave a more conservative estimate of at least another year before surpassing YUL to be no.3 but this is definitely a more energized pace.
The expansion may seem a bit excessive with the huge price tag and the extra square footage but it keeps this airport futureproof for a few decades at least. Heck YYCAA may even close down its existing terminals for a rebuild and the new terminal alone would comfortably handle our current loads. That existing facility is too outdated it's almost criminal, especially when the washrooms have lineups just before gate call.

Improvements in future years, I'd like to see air cargo traffic improve a bit more. We need a dedicated asian connector like before and possibly a second european cargo hauler too. FedEx at some point will intensity Alberta services through YYC and the first signs of these will be MD11 or 777F upgrades on its existing network. They expanded their cargo processing facility to double their capacity and coincidentally I designed their expansion space and at the time during my site visits saw their master plan for yyc growth. It is promising indeed. They will be the biggest cargo user of the airport soon.

The only other airport in the world I can think of undergoing such massive expansion is Sepang Kula Lumpur and the World Central in Dubai.
Not to mention yyc is the only airport in Canada with 2 300' high control towers, the original one yet empty still stands and is on the market to be leased to a prospective tenant rather than tearing this down. If this were to become an observation terrace in the future, we'll have the best spotting facilities in all of Canada, rivaling Manchester Ringway even..

[Edited 2014-02-13 20:41:47]

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 10): This is a possibility, but don't forget that WS are growing at YVR, too, with their heavy Hawaii presence. AC basing their Western Rouge ops out of YVR will probably be good for numbers as well, since both WS and Rouge want to counter travelers flying out of BLI and SEA, which isn't an issue in YYC.

actually yes it is I live three hours south of Calgary and there are people that will drive to Great Falls to fly out of there cheaper

That's because you live 3 hours south of YYC. And Canadian traffic at Great Falls doesn't compare to that of BLI, PBG, BTV, BUF or IAG.

Drive 1 hour south of Vancouver and you are already inside the terminal at BLI, same for Montreal and PBG.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-14 05:41:32]

Quoting United787 (Reply 3): Dumb question, but is YYR #2

You mean YVR, but I thought that BUF was the third largest airport in Canada.

The growth of YVR Pacific traffic, and the addition of the 787 which will open up further direct YYZ to Pacific flights, means that it will be a long long time if ever that YYC will see enough flights to overtake YVR. Certainly the new terminal will allow better processing of traffic and improve performance of existing traffic on hot summer nights particularly. But frankly the terminal won't manufacture that many passengers, they already have to be traveling from YYC via other routes. A great terminal that is easy to transit might bring some additional Europe passengers from Regina or Saskatoon travelers to warrant back tracking.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 22): A great terminal that is easy to transit might bring some additional Europe passengers from Regina or Saskatoon travelers to warrant back tracking.

While Regina/Saskatoon to/from Europe via YYC may look like backtracking, it's actually the shortest possible route, except via YEG when YEG-LHR seasonal service operates.

Example:

YXE-YYC-LHR 4080 nm (3948 nm via YEG)
YXE-YYZ-LHR 4286 nm

YQR-YYC-LHR 4158 nm (4062 nm via YEG)
YQR-YYZ-LHR 4188 nm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 22): A great terminal that is easy to transit might bring some additional Europe passengers from Regina or Saskatoon travelers to warrant back tracking. While Regina/Saskatoon to/from Europe via YYC may look like backtracking, it's actually the shortest possible route, except via YEG when YEG-LHR seasonal service operates. Example: YXE-YYC-LHR 4080 nm (3948 nm via YEG) YXE-YYZ-LHR 4286 nm YQR-YYC-LHR 4158 nm (4062 nm via YEG) YQR-YYZ-LHR 4188 nm

You are right. But still the population numbers and travel patterns limit the growth from the prairies. I just don't see the growth at YYC being at the expense of YVR and YYZ. A limited number of aircraft and new destinations are also part of the mix. What I omitted saying is that YYC can add capacity and likely will benefit from the 787 as well, as much as it will add a lot of new destinations to YYC.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 19): Drive 1 hour south of Vancouver and you are already inside the terminal at BLI, same for Montreal and PBG.

We have a name for the place 3 hours out of Vancouver... it's "Seattle."

There simply isn't anywhere near the same cross-border traffic seepage in AB as there is in BC, ON or QC.

Quoting beatyair (Thread starter): Calgary International Airport has become the third busiest airport in Canada ahead of Montreal's Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

Referring to what and who's numbers? Movements? Pax? Just curious, as it does make a difference to different people.

Quoting My16sidedoffice (Reply 26): Movements? Pax?

Both. YYC has been ahead of YUL by aircraft movements for quite a few years now.

Thenoflyzone

14.03 million pax for YYC in 2013, to 14.09 for YUL.

Quoting Acey (Reply 28): 14.03 million pax for YYC in 2013, to 14.09 for YUL.

Wouldn't that mean YUL is still ahead? :lol:

14.3 for YYC. AFAIK, YYC has been busier from an a/c movement POV for almost 20 (?) years. The parallel (set to open in 4 1/2 months) should facilitate things during busy hours mid-week. Outside those hours, it's comparatively quiet.

Of course, all of this is based on an airport/airport comparison.

If you compare Montreal's total passenger, aircraft movement and cargo counts (YUL,YMX, YHU, all of which have commercial service, passenger and/or cargo) vs that of the City of Calgary (YYC and YBW, the latter is GA only), Montreal comes up on top in terms of movements and cargo, and the gap narrows in terms of passengers, due to some scheduled passenger ops at YHU, mostly by Pascan.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-15 08:19:51]

Not discounting the above points that contribute to YYC's surpassing of YUL traffic (YYC's relative isolation, and YUL's lack of cultural integration with the rest of NA etc), a PRIMARY cause of the rise of YYC and the (relative) fall of YUL is economic growth and PCI.

Quebec is one of the poorest jurisdictions in North America (low PCI, high tax base, anti-business legislation, high debt, poor population growth) and Alberta is near the top in NA in terms of PCI, economic growth etc.

If Quebec (and Montreal) had better economies and even average North American PCI, YUL's traffic would be much higher.

YUL was the busiest airport in Canada until about 1964 (when passed by YYZ). YVR passed YUL and now YYC. How soon YEG? In 15 years? This all speaks starkly of Montreal's (and Quebec's) relative economic deline in Canada which is a decades long trend.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 29): 14.3 for YYC. AFAIK, YYC has been busier from an a/c movement POV for almost 20 (?) years.

Most likely Fab.

Of course, splitting commercial traffic between YMX and YUL for all those years didn't help either ! Even today we see it, with the cargo still at YMX. Simply bring in all the cargo flights over to YUL from YMX and it will boost aircraft movement numbers, at or above YYCs.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 31): YUL was the busiest airport in Canada until about 1964 (when passed by YYZ). YVR passed YUL and now YYC. How soon YEG? In 15 years?

Assuming both airports keep up 2013 % increases, it's actually closer to 25-30 years.

That's assuming Alberta's economy continues the way it is. Whereas Quebec's economy will most likely remain the same. Small increases y.o.y.

Then again, in 2011, it was YUL which had a 5.4 % increase, whereas YYC was closer to 1 %. And also in 2010, where YUL was 6.0% up and YEG was dead at 0.0%. What was it that happened just a year before these weak Alberta numbers?.......It's slipping my mind somehow.....

ahh yes....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_oil_market_chronology_from_2003

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-15 11:41:37]

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 31): YUL was the busiest airport in Canada until about 1964 (when passed by YYZ).

A major reason for that was that almost all European carriers only had access to YUL until the mid-1960s or later. Once bilaterals began to be liberalized to give many carriers permission to serve YYZ, YUL traffic obviously dropped. Even Canadian carriers weren't permitted to operate nonstop from YYZ to many European destinations until around that time. YYZ-Europe flights often included a stop at YUL for that reason.

ADM issued a press release today.

http://www.admtl.com/UploadedFiles/A...2014-horaire%20%C3%A9t%C3%A9-A.pdf

"ADM is confident that travellers will be numerous on both sides of the Atlantic, and is forecasting
solid growth in its passenger traffic for 2014. Traffic through Montréal–Trudeau was up by 2.1% in 2013, reaching 14.1 million enplaned and deplaned passengers. International flights (which exclude the U.S. service) accounted for 38% of total traffic, the highest proportion among all Canadian airports."

Reaffirms the point that French Canadians look more towards the east rather than the west for travel ! Also, a 2.1 % increase is still relatively impressive, considering the lackluster performance of the Quebec economy in 2013.

2014 will look promising, what with TK, CM, LH, TS and AC adding capacity or starting new service out of YUL.

Here is what Canada's major airports have done in 2013.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada

Interesting to note that YOW is down 2.3%, most likely due to the Canadian Govt cutting jobs. YQB is doing relatively good, considering the doom and gloom Quebec conclusions of yyz717 (as always), with a very healthy 4.5 % increase, matching the performance of airports in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Of course, no one can touch Fort Mac, which made the list for the first time, a 22 % increase in passengers over 2012.

YTZ, YYT and YHZ numbers aren't out yet.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):

Still, glad to see YUL holding its own ! As the press release above mentions, YUL ranks 4th among all North American
airports for the number of European destinations served by direct flights, ahead of major hubs like ORD or ATL.

What are the other three? JFK, YYZ and LAX (?)

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-17 07:57:07]

Well, of course they're gonna put a positive spin on things...  
They should just thank AC and Transat (based carriers) for virtually all their increases in 2014 and call it a day. I'm just messin' with ya, AK, gettin' you spooled up. Re: European destinations, LAX would also be my guest with maybe IAD or EWR as long shots.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 34): They should just thank AC and Transat (based carriers) for virtually all their increases in 2014 and call it a day.

That's still one more than YYC buddy, which have WestJet to thank for everything !  

Thenoflyzone

I was alluding to YUL's ever prestigious "list of international destinations". I'd be curious to see what the true ratio of business travelers are to charter/VFR passengers. Probably pretty small. I'm just saying, it helps to have Canada's largest international airline be obligated to maintain an important foothold in Montreal, when really they'd like to continue focusing on their most important (especially from a business perspective) hub, and also to have TS offer a wide variety of international destinations to tons of cheapskates who want to get away and get blitzed on very inexpensive all-inclusives.    I certainly don't want to discount how much an affect Sunwing has had on the competitive landscape, either.

For there record, I can't say I care enough about the subject. From our perspective, naturally, they're just blips on the radar and that's where the fun begins. We're finally 5 months away from getting a parallel. In NA, only LGA and DCA are busier without the help of a parallel and they're by far busier throughout the day, not as 'peaky'.

In passenger terms, YYC overachieves and YUL doesn't, with the exception of international, which is close to, if not greater than a city it's size could expect. The reasons for this have all been repeated too much for us to bear. Who cares? YUL may take the spot back in 2014, then lose it again in 2015. It all depends. The economy. Keep in mind, if Alberta hurts, so is the rest of the country. Kind of unavoidable. I predict there's some flip-flopping for a few years.   

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 34): Well, of course they're gonna put a positive spin on things...

What negative spin is there? As you said, who cares about rankings. YUL had a 2% increase in 2013. There is only positive to be said, especially with the 2014 outlook as well.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 36): I'm just saying, it helps to have Canada's largest international airline be obligated to maintain an important foothold in Montreal, when really they'd like to continue focusing on their most important (especially from a business perspective) hub

No one put a gun to AC's head and told them to start YUL to GVA/FCO/BRU/BCN/ATH and soon NCE, just like no one forced AC to start YYC-NRT. Besides, TS was already serving all of those routes out of YUL except for GVA, so it's not like AC added any new destinations per se. Also, the fact that two or more airlines operate to these places reinforces competition and naturally drops down prices, which is always good for the consumer, but drives down yields for the carriers.

Point being, there is clearly money to be made on these routes. Yes, most of these are low yielding VFR routes, but the fact remains that if they weren't profitable, AC wouldn't still be operating them, or even worse, adding destinations to that list.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 37): Keep in mind, if Alberta hurts, so is the rest of the country.

2010 and 2011 figures that i showed above have proven the contrary !

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 36): I certainly don't want to discount how much an affect Sunwing has had on the competitive landscape, either.

Absolutely. If anything, it reinforces how much of a snowbird market there is out of Ontario and Quebec. Sunwing was the first airline that started offering flights down south from places like YVO, YZV, YUY, YBG, etc.

Now, Sunwing doesn't fly out west, but TS, WS and AC have an ever so growing and decent offering out of YYC to low yield destinations in the south as well, YYC-MIA being a very recent example.

Us canucks will always be snowbirds. No amount of tar under the ground can change that!

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 37): In passenger terms, YYC overachieves and YUL doesn't

It's more like "you have no choice but to fly out of YYC, whereas you have plenty of choices in Montreal".

Were we comparing YYC and YYZ, one could say..." YYC, with one sixth the population of YYZ, carries nearly half the passengers."

Does that mean YYZ is underperforming? No, far from it. Which is why the article in the Calgary Herald is laughable at best, because it does just that.

I Quote: "What's really remarkable, when we're comparing Calgary and Montreal, is Montreal as an economic region has nearly three times the population base of Calgary," Graham said. But clearly, the economic activity here in Calgary, the vibrancy of the city, and the fact we've got an airport that is an important hub for international travel as well as other western Canadian markets is reflected in these numbers."

LOL..ya right, international travel is the reason....that's why international travel was down 0.67% in 2013. Now you tell me Fab who's putting a fake positive spin on things.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/travel/...+busiest+Canada/9503317/story.html

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-02-17 16:06:43]

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 14): FIrst off, it would have been good to wait until YUL publishes its full year passenger figures

14.1 million and trending upwards from 2012. Keep in mind the announced new service as per reply 33, which may give YYC a run for its money in 2014.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 15): I've seen 744s and MD 11s at YYC

Not passenger ones for a long long time. Did anybody ever regularly serve YYC with a 744? Apart from a few sub-ins with KLM, who flew passenger MD-11s there?

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 16): The only other airport in the world I can think of undergoing such massive expansion is Sepang Kula Lumpur and the World Central in Dubai.

Calgary had remained essentially dormant for decades until this recent spate of projects (terminal, parallel runway, new tower), and will likely return to a period of relative stasis once the new facilities open. As for the scale of the expansion, several airports in Canada have undergone equal or larger rapid change (YYZ, YVR, etc) and the list of airports around the world with much larger projects is long (mainly in Asia and the Gulf, but LHR and LAX also come to mind). The new parallel runway and terminal won't stimulate any more growth than we already expect; they will merely streamline the existing foot and airplane traffic. While these projects are big & exciting news in Calgary, but let's remember that YYC is still a very small fish in global airport terms.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 30): Not discounting the above points...

I was wondering when you'd use the cut & paste feature from your identical arguments whenever this thread topic arises. One of these years, the assertions may come true.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 37): In NA, only LGA and DCA are busier without the help of a parallel

Methinks you forget about SAN.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 39): Methinks you forget about SAN.

Not in terms of movements, which is what matters here. YYC is busier.

SAN only had 186,000 movements in 2012.

[Edited 2014-02-17 16:13:10]

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 40): Not in terms of movements, which is what matters here. YYC is busier.

Funny, the entire thread so far (with a brief exception in replies 24 & 25) has referred to number of passengers as the metric by which these airports are compared. YYC as you will no doubt already know, is NOT a single runway airport today, despite it not having a parallel runway (yet).

When i said "which is what matters here", i was referring to Cyeg66's comments about LGA and DCA being busier, not in reference to the whole thread in general.

[Edited 2014-02-17 16:50:22]

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 38): Now, Sunwing doesn't fly out west,

Yes they do. Their website shows flights from YVR/YYJ/YLW/YYC/YEG/YQU/YMM/YXE/YQR/YWG.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):

brainfart ! thanks...Still, a relatively smaller presence out west than East.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 41): YYC as you will no doubt already know, is NOT a single runway airport today, despite it not having a parallel runway (yet).

As far as aircraft ops are concerned, might as well treat 11/29 and 17R/35L as a single runway. Not all airlines accept LAHSO ops nowadays, and the primary purpose of 11/29 is probably for use when the chinook winds are blowing strong. Cyeg66 can fill you in on all the details...he controls them bloody planes there.

Point being, you cannot beat parallel runways. It is the only configuration of the future for busy airports. Just look at ORD and the reshuffle of runways going on there.

Thenoflyzone

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 37): We're finally 5 months away from getting a parallel.

Isn't it supposed to open in May?

Quoting cylw (Reply 45): Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 37): We're finally 5 months away from getting a parallel. Isn't it supposed to open in May?

The last quarterly update (4th quarter 2013) said the runway is "on track to open in Spring 2014."
http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/CALGARY...RT%20AUTJORITY/ADP%20Q4%202013.pdf

The runway's about 5 weeks late, opening towards the end of June.

Oh, and AK, gotcha. I caught a lunker.  

Just looked at YYC.com. You're right. June 28th opening.

Quoting ytz (Reply 6): Goose Bay

Is it a nice place to visit? I haven't been back since I was conceived there.