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sq321
Topic Author
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LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:31 am

Yesterday evening around 2200 GMT, I was monitoring the plane finder app with more interest than usual as i live under the heathrow flight path and the wind outside my window was incredibly severe, in fact i'm surprised the airport was even open. anyway, an American Airlines 767 DFW-ORD-LHR went around and was diverted straight up to MAN. Meanwhile a Quatar airlines A300 had a go around, then was put in to a long holding pattern, then had a second go around and eventually was diverted to CDG

My question are who decides how may go arounds are allowed, and then which airports are used as diversions?
 
David_itl
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:49 am

Alternate airports are down the airlines. MAN ended up with a dozen with some not accepted (lack of suitable stands for widebodies plus late incoming PK flight put paid to most widebodied aircraft seeking to divert), BHX had a number of diversions but is currently handicapped by runway closure at 2300 (it seems a TP diversion had an unintentional nightstop), EI had a number of aircraft divert back to DUB
 
sq321
Topic Author
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:14 am

What surprised me was the length of time the quatar flight mentioned above was in after the 1st go around and then the fact that after the second go around it was diverted to a relatively distant (compared to birmingham, stansted or Man) Paris, must have been carrying a lot of fuel
 
bmibaby737
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting sq321 (Reply 2):
(compared to birmingham, stansted or Man)

Birmingham was eventually closed last night, and I believe Stansted and Manchester only accepting diversions that were running out of fuel - although don't quote me on that. You'll find most easyJet aircraft from Gatwick that couldn't get in, diverted to airports such as Liverpool, Glasgow and Newcastle last night because of those reasons. It's also worth noting, that if your diversionary airport doesn't have much better weather than the your intended destination, then it's worth going somewhere you're more likely to have a normal landing.
 
TC957
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:43 am

The CX 748F went around, and diverted to STN. And please, before anyone else says so, it's Qatar....not with a u in it !
 
 
hibtastic
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:38 pm

A VS A346 from JFK diverted to NCL and there was some ezy diversions to EDI.
 
pegasus1
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:40 pm

We were flying from Aberdeen to Heathrow yesterday evening and eventually got in after a 40 minute hold and a very unstable approach. Kudos to the flight crew. We were all very relieved to be safely returned to terra firma. However the captain told us that we almost diverted to Birmingham as Stansted was closed to us (we weren't low enough on fuel, I guess).

The following flight from Aberdeen was in the air around 2 hours total (normal flying time ABZ-LHR is around 1hr 10 mins) and eventually diverted to Manchester.
 
speedbird128
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 4):
Qatar....not with a u

wooot? Not like Quantas? Blimey.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
roseflyer
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting sq321 (Reply 2):
What surprised me was the length of time the quatar flight mentioned above was in after the 1st go around and then the fact that after the second go around it was diverted to a relatively distant (compared to birmingham, stansted or Man) Paris, must have been carrying a lot of fuel

CDG is only about 200 miles from LHR. That isn't a very long diversion. Same distance as NCL.

It wouldn't surprise me that they knew there was bad weather and had extra fuel on board. When the weather is bad at LHR, the hold times and diversions can be atrocious. Wind isn't as bad as snow. I spoke to one BA captain that said due to snow he carried enough fuel onboard his 747 to use JFK as an alternate. It isn't uncommon to have 3 hours or more of holding fuel when flying to LHR. Not only can holding be very long, but with so many airports having curfews, it can be difficult to find an airport that is open and accepting airplanes with good weather despite being in the most crowded airspace in the world.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
BA777
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting sq321 (Thread starter):
My question are who decides how may go arounds are allowed, and then which airports are used as diversions?

A combination of the crew, ops manual and airmanship really. Airmanship will say you need to study the situation..if everyone is going around, your chances are probably limited and may be better to divert early. An ops manual may state that two approaches are allowed and if the weather hasn't doubled (ie visibility and/or cloud base) for the third you are not permitted to make a third attempt.

Also worth bearing in mind that if everyone is diverting to BHX/MAN from LON then think outside the box like that VS crew did..straight into NCL, yes not usually a diversion but in challenging circumstances it's often wise to keep it simple and get the aircraft on the ground and then sort it out later.
 
David_itl
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:39 pm

VS going to NCL was down to MAN not accepting it as they requested to come here though it appeared on MAN arrivals. The AA 777 that went to DUB was also a MAN rejection though it then asked for PIK and was told no fire cover (apparently);
 
sq321
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:43 pm

what surprised me given the conditions that quatar were given a second attempt in the first place. im trying to talk go arounds rather than diversions here
 
Q
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Has anyone video any planes landing adventure at London yesterday?

Q
 
Q
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:26 pm

 
lhrnue
Posts: 381
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting sq321 (Thread starter):
Meanwhile a Quatar airlines A300 had a go around,

Qatar is not operating A300 anymore, or are they?
 
kingfisherfly
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 14):
Qatar is not operating A300 anymore, or are they?

  

Is it a dumb Qatar Airways of middle east just like Dumb Starbucks of States ??  
 
Eurohub
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:11 pm

RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:37 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 1):
(it seems a TP diversion had an unintentional nightstop)

The TP was still there at 1130 today when I came in on LX2724 from ZRH - it was parked at one of the remote stands next to the line of FR aircraft parked up for the winter. There were also a couple of BA aircraft parked at airbridge positions but I don't know why.

Regards,
Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
vv701
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:48 pm

Amongst BA diversions on 14 February were::

763 G-BNWM operating DME-LHR completed a holding circuit over south east Essex, two circuits in the Lambourne Stack, completed an aborted approach to LHR, completed one circuit in the Biggin Hill Stack, completed second aborted approach to LHR and then diverted to MAN

744 G-CIVZ operating JFK-LHR completed three circuits in Biggin Hill Stack before diverting to NCL

319 G-EUPN operating MUC-LHR diverted to STN

319 G-EUOA operating GLA-LHR diverted to MAN

319 G-EUOF operating ABZ-LHR diverted to MAN

320 G-EUUE operating FCO-LHR completed two holding circuits over West Sussex, two more in the Biggin Hill Stack, aborted an approach to LHR and diverted to MAN

320 G-EUUH operating ORY-LHR completed one holding circuit over north west Kent then three in the Biggin Hill Stack before diverting to MAN

320 G-EUUJ operating VIE-LHR completed one holding circuit over North Sea, a second over east Essex and a third in the Lambourne Stack before diverting to STN

321 G-EUXC operating NCL-LHR diverted to STN

321 G-EUXE ferrying GVA-LHR after a lightening strike on approach to GVA diverted to EDI

320 G-EUYA operating FRA-LHR completed three circuits in Lambourne Stack before diverting to STN

320 G-EUYN operating EDI-LHR diverted to STN

321 G-MEDM operating GYD-LHR reached the Essex coast and there turned back and diverted straight to BRU

320 G-MIDS operating BHD-LHR diverted to BHX

Source for the above: The BA Source and Flightaware. [Note: Absence of detail before diversion does not necessary mean aircraft did not enter a holding pattern or make an approach to LHR before diverting
 
gkirk
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:09 pm

G-CIVZ this evening operated the BA1335 NCL-LHR shuttle in lieu of the normal A319. A pleasant surprise for folk on that flight  

The VS A346 was the first time that an A346 had beeen to NCL also
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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flylku
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting sq321 (Reply 11):
what surprised me given the conditions that quatar were given a second attempt in the first place. im trying to talk go arounds rather than diversions here

The decision to attempt additional approaches is the captain's, not the controller's. Or, perhaps you meant 'attempted' where you said 'were given'.

Side note: I read a number of stories written by crew's who were headed to Japanese airports when the earthquake hit a number of years ago (I think some of them were posted here). Several were looking for airports to which to divert and indicated that finally, when they were told a specific airport was not available, said the magic words and were given the clearances they requested: they declared an emergency.

[Edited 2014-02-15 15:26:03]
...are we there yet?
 
awthompson
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:21 am

I flew out of LHR on a packed Aer Lingus 175 to Dublin on Friday night, scheduled for 19:45 (after connecting from a 13 hour 25 mins MAS 4 from KUL) so as you would expect I just needed to get home without any more ado, having already missed EI 173 due to the slightly late MAS 3.

We left stand 180 more or less on time but waited around 50 minutes queuing for 27R. Captain stated that due to the wind fluctuating around the crosswind limit, sometimes going out of limits, sometimes within limits, a number of aircraft were shooting approaches then going round. These aircraft were then joining the queue to land again adding to the runway congestion problem. Captain also stated that both runways were being used for landings. 27L was the designated landing runway at the time but planes started to slot in to 27R approaches between departures from the same runway. I must say that its the first time I've seen departures, landings and go-arounds from the same runway at LHR within only a few minutes. Somewhere in front of me was EC-GUQ A343 of Iberia departing, then an SAS B737 landing.

The wind obviously had a high cross wind component as ours was the most turbulent take off I've ever had at LHR. There was significant rolling and yawing from rotation continuing to at least FL100.
 
factsonly
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:04 am

It's on windy days like these that LHR must really miss its former (parallel) cross-wind Runways:


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They used to come in very handy.
 
skipness1E
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Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:31 pm

True but it was very rarely used and all of that land is *much* better used nowadays. Using that layout also bring the flow rate down considerably.
 
skipness1E
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:35 pm

Quoting sq321 (Reply 11):
what surprised me given the conditions that quatar were given a second attempt in the first place. im trying to talk go arounds rather than diversions here

Your feelings on the ground are measured against quantifiable measurements at the airfield, If they fall within the minima, an approach can be attempted. Better to go around twice than do some damage on an ill advised landing. The wind can and often does drop off between first and second approaches. Yesterday's issue was windshear on finals causing the BAW132 and VIR652W to go around.

As the man said, there's no "u" in Qatar.

[Edited 2014-02-16 04:36:06]
 
Thenoflyzone
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:30 am

Quoting Q (Reply 13):

Wow, that's a good 45° crab angle, even for the mighty A380. What were the winds exactly. By the video I would guesstimate 200 at 40 to 50kts?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
caaardiff
Posts: 207
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RE: LHR Go Around Diversions In Last Nights Wind

Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:20 pm

At one point CWL was one of few airports available as everything else was filling up, BHX was full and as stated MAN and STN only accepting low fuel diversions.
It was a real mess on Friday. Just as the options for diversions lowered the wind came back to CWL resulting in crosswinds and gusts up to 50kts.
A lot of flights destined for BRS ended up in BHX earlier in the night. LHR got worse before LGW.
Whilst getting on the ground is priority in these situations, Airports like BHX and MAN must've had a nightmare in sourcing coaches and hotels to get passengers back to their destination.
The VS diverting to NCL probably had the right idea!

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