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KarelXWB
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:34 pm

It seems TK is nearing a deal to wet-lease four A380 aircraft.

http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/435790508951343104

Routes to LHR/JFK/PVG/PEK/SFO are mentioned by the kokpit.aero website.

http://kokpit.aero/thy-a380-kiraliyor
http://kokpit.aero/turkish-airlines-a380-wet-lease
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scouseflyer
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:40 pm

I wonder if the clue is the article - how many A380s does China Southern currently have?
 
sirtoby
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1):
I wonder if the clue is the article - how many A380s does China Southern currently have?

China Southern has 5 A380...
 
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Stitch
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:42 pm

I'd like to see them maneuver those birds around IST. And that's not a crack at the A380, it's a crack at IST.

Seriously, I assume they'll use remote stands.

So the question is, which airline wants to drop four A380s from their fleet?

If this is just a short-term lease over the summer months, then it could be EK as they will likely have to curtail some A380 operations during the summer runway work at DXB. Perhaps also SQ or TG as it would be winter in the Southern Hemisphere and load factors may be lower and they could swap out an A380 service for a 777-300ER service.

If this is a long-term lease (with TK using the wet-lease time to train their own crews), then I wonder who wants to reduce their A380 fleet by four?

TG or CZ?
 
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frigatebird
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:43 pm

Interesting development, to make the understatement of the year. Wonder where they'll get them from? If it indeed will be 4 frames, it probably won't be CZ, since they have just 5. Same reason I don't think it will be MH or TG (6 frames). AF?
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frigatebird
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
If this is just a short-term lease over the summer months, then it could be EK as they will likely have to curtail some A380 operations during the summer runway work at DXB.

Hadn't thought of that one. Good thinking. But wouldn't they drop flights with smaller airplanes, like A332/A343s, or 77E/L? IIRC the AMS flight that will be dropped during the summer will the 77L flight.
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Aviaponcho
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RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:49 pm

Qantas ?
Same color
Some problem to fill it
 
A388
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:50 pm

When I read the thread subject I immediately thought that these A380's will be leased from the 20 A380's that Amedeo just confirmed. It doesn't sound like a coincidence that both Amedeo and now TK announce their A380 plans...? Any thoughts on this?


Cheers,

A388
 
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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 6):
Qantas?

I thought of QF at fist (if a short-term lease), but their A380 operations are long-overwater missions and they don't have a "step-down" plane that can handle them as the 747-400 fleet is already engaged and the A330-300 lacks the legs.

So I do not believe they can afford to send 4 A380s away for the winter.
 
sirtoby
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
When I read the thread subject I immediately thought that these A380's will be leased from the 20 A380's that Amedeo just confirmed

1. That would not be a wet-lease.
2. Amadeo has no delivery slots for 2014.
3. Statement says they are coming from an unnamed "airline".
 
teahan
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:53 pm

Could it be the QR deliveries?
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KarelXWB
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:57 pm

EK will have a few spares during the summer due to the DXB runway maintenance.
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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting teahan (Reply 10):
Could it be the QR deliveries?

QR just announced they will start A380 operations within a month of TK's desired delivery date, so that would be a "no".  
 
A388
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:02 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 9):
Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
When I read the thread subject I immediately thought that these A380's will be leased from the 20 A380's that Amedeo just confirmed

1. That would not be a wet-lease.
2. Amadeo has no delivery slots for 2014.
3. Statement says they are coming from an unnamed "airline".

Okay thanks. A wetlease indeed is different. In this case I join the club of TG and CZ as potential candidates as they seem to struggle (passenger load-wise) with their A380 fleets...

A388
 
Clydenairways
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
EK will have a few spares during the summer due to the DXB runway maintenance.

EK is the most logical source, but surely EK is seeing the rapid expansion of TK being a threat to it's dominance. Do they really want to help out a main competitor, even if they need to reduce the fleet due to runway works?
 
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Ab345
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:12 pm

This thread along with the 'No more 777s for AA , A350 the future' are enough to set fire on a.net 

EK (due to runway problems) and CZ are my two finals I think.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
EK will have a few spares during the summer due to the DXB runway maintenance

EK will be up and running at full capacity again by the end of July, by which time they need all the A380 capacity they have, so no way EK would lease out this capacity to TK for the entire summer.
 
tortugamon
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
Interesting development, to make the understatement of the year. Wonder where they'll get them from? If it indeed will be 4 frames, it probably won't be CZ, since they have just 5. Same reason I don't think it will be MH or TG (6 frames). AF?

I actually could see an airline operating with 2 A380s but I do have trouble seeing just one. I think CZ is out. AF makes sense to me.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 5):
Hadn't thought of that one. Good thinking. But wouldn't they drop flights with smaller airplanes, like A332/A343s, or 77E/L? IIRC the AMS flight that will be dropped during the summer will the 77L flight.

This makes sense but apparently it will impact A380s as well because they put more pressure on runways and I think they have to have additional space between movements as well.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 6):
Qantas ?

I like this option. They need cash, DXB shutdown will impact them and QF officials have been lobbying hard not to get reduced service.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
EK will have a few spares during the summer due to the DXB runway maintenance.

Why not just delay deliveries from Airbus? Aren't they due to receive a double digit number this year? I don't see it as EK.

My best guesses are AF and QF.

edit: ok probably not great A380 news because it means an A380 operator really isn't making money with it but it has to be considered a partial win because landing TK as an eventual customer has to be a much closer reality now.

tortugamon

[Edited 2014-02-18 08:22:43]
 
scouseflyer
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:25 pm

There has been some suggestions that BA are only going to take 8 of their 12 orders but with number 8 only being on a convoy now, unless they're going to send some of their current birds to TK I can't see this happening.

One of the respected posters on doubledeckerboards is insisting though that the 8th is BA's last one though......
 
TC957
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:35 pm

Maybe LH helping out a fellow Star A partner ? There's one more LH 380 due soon and does JNB really need an A380 during European summer low-season ? Perhaps FRA - SIN could go to a 748 as well and combined there's TK's 4 aircraft freed up.
 
tortugamon
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 18):
One of the respected posters on doubledeckerboards is insisting though that the 8th is BA's last one though......

I thought that we determined some of the customer provided equipment would need to already be in production for #9 though. I think Karel confirmed that. I believed 9 as feasible but it seemed to be too late for #8.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 19):
They're apparently seeking to lease some of LOT's 787s as well...

These guys can't get enough. About time they realize what they are sitting on. They could be a huge force very soon. Afraid to take the leap and want to take extended test drives I guess  

tortugamon
 
scouseflyer
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 20):

Maybe LH helping out a fellow Star A partner ? There's one more LH 380 due soon and does JNB really need an A380 during European summer low-season ? Perhaps FRA - SIN could go to a 748 as well and combined there's TK's 4 aircraft freed up.

There was also a rumour recently that LH had upped their 748 order back up to 20 but I'm not sure if that was an error on a spreadsheet rather than an actual order!
 
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Ab345
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:50 pm

Recently TK cancelled codesharing with LH and OS and apparently LH was not that happy about it. Could they be back in such a comfy partnership that fast?
 
Clydenairways
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 23):
Recently TK cancelled codesharing with LH and OS and apparently LH was not that happy about it. Could they be back in such a comfy partnership that fast?

I don't think it will be AF or LH either, TK are taking a big chunk of their traditional hub transfer market. TK's growth is a big threat to them.
I'm still going with EK due to the DXB airport works.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:58 pm

We're all hanging on the "wet lease" part could that be an error and could TK be the first Amedo customer
 
tortugamon
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 26):
We're all hanging on the "wet lease" part could that be an error and could TK be the first Amedo customer

I don't think you mistakenly hear 'wet lease' but even if you do, they couldn't get a new lease by this summer so you would have to mistakenly hear that too. DKM is a good source. Hopefully DKM's source is a good source as well  

tortugamon
 
scouseflyer
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 27):

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 26):
We're all hanging on the "wet lease" part could that be an error and could TK be the first Amedo customer

I don't think you mistakenly hear 'wet lease' but even if you do, they couldn't get a new lease by this summer so you would have to mistakenly hear that too. DKM is a good source. Hopefully DKM's source is a good source as well  

tortugamon

That's true! back to specualting which airline that they're coming from!
 
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MaxiAir
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:16 pm

I don't believe it's LH, because they are expanding the A380-routes (JFK and MIA year round), while there is at least one in mods for the whole year (Of course not the same, they change them every month)!
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ytz
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:29 pm

Why those destinations? London in particular seems odd. Going from a 77W and 321 to an A380 and probably a 321 seems like a huge jump in capacity. And no current service to SFO. But launch with an A380? And with no service to BLR, then can't even tap into that lucrative market like BA, LH and EK. At least JFK would allow them to upguage one flight to an A380 and downgague the other to a 332, and PEK and PVG can be seen as a healthy bump from a 77W. But launching SFO with an A380? That's ambitious.
 
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vhtje
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:32 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 18):
There has been some suggestions that BA are only going to take 8 of their 12 orders but with number 8 only being on a convoy now, unless they're going to send some of their current birds to TK I can't see this happening.

One of the respected posters on doubledeckerboards is insisting though that the 8th is BA's last one though......

That may or may not be true, but if true, that wouldn't be a wet lease, would it?
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sturmovik
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:37 pm

Could it be KE? How have their A380 flights been doing?
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jupiter2
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:46 pm

My money would be on MH or TG, in particular MH.

They could still run LHR with 2 and use their 777's or 333's to the other 380 destinations.

As for SFO, one of the links indicates that the possible LOT 787's lease would be used to commence that service.
 
bthebest
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:46 pm

Does it have to be from one airline? Lack of detail in the source allows it for consideration - could be a couple each from CZ/MH/TG.
 
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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 22):
There was also a rumour recently that LH had upped their 748 order back up to 20 but I'm not sure if that was an error on a spreadsheet rather than an actual order!

Boeing has evidently added back the 747-8 LH had originally rejected to the firing order in their name, however officially LH is still sitting on 19 frames.



Quoting sturmovik (Reply 32):
Could it be KE? How have their A380 flights been doing?

Looks like their final two frames are out of the FAL, both of which I would expect will be in service by May, so that would given them a pool of 10 to draw from if they are interested.



Quoting Bthebest (Reply 34):
Does it have to be from one airline? Lack of detail in the source allows it for consideration - could be a couple each from CZ/MH/TG.

If they are looking for a short-term lease, mixing and matching would work.

If they are looking at long-term, I would guess they would want all four from one carrier for commonality in configuration (cabin and airframe / engine).

[Edited 2014-02-18 09:50:38]
 
MeCe
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 28):

No, no; SFO mentioned for 787 lease, not related with 380.

JFK, LAX, LHR, YYZ and many german destinations are overbooked during summer months, having 380 boosts pax capacity without addingmore frequencies. If they can make deal, 380 will free up some 777 so new routes can be opened.
 
codc10
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:43 pm

If true, I am very excited about the prospect of the return of TK F service! They did a fantastic job with the product when it was offered on the former 9W 77Ws (some of which found their way to TG subesequently).
 
kl838
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:46 pm

What about SQ? Maybe they are reducing capacity to certain routes? I am not familiar with how the A380's operate, but it makes me curious how they can fit them in their network while AF is finding it difficult? Just a thought, but maybe they are helping a Star partner? Even though SQ prefers to think they are on their own and not partake in the alliance.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:17 pm

It doesn't make sense that it would be EK because of the DXB runway maintenance. When number of flights are reduced during that time, they need larger aircraft... not smaller. So EK will most likely up some 777 to A380, not the other way around.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:31 pm

EK?

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 17):
My best guesses are AF and QF.

Change that to AF, MH, and CZ and we are in agreement. Heck, TG might want to reduce by a few too...



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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting kl838 (Reply 39):
What about SQ? Maybe they are reducing capacity to certain routes?

Perhaps for the summer on a short-term lease, but not for a long-term lease. SQ had ordered another five A380-800s and I am assuming they are not meant as replacement frames for 9-SKA though 9-SKE, but instead for expansion.
 
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ER757
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 31):
My money would be on MH or TG, in particular MH.

I was thinking MH as well - how many do they have currently?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
it probably won't be CZ, since they have just 5

On the other hand, CZ will have 1 frame out of service due to wing modification. That makes four frames to fly   
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
tortugamon
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
Change that to AF, MH, and CZ and we are in agreement. Heck, TG might want to reduce by a few too...

The reason I like QF for this is that they are in a bind right now and if EK shut down some of their A380 routes to DXB for most of the summer when QF makes a boat-load of cash then maybe they 'give up' on operating them for an even longer period of time to try to salvage some capital. If I am not mistaken they need the cash this year to get the 2016 options exercised for the 789s and their credit rating just got down graded.

I could see TG and MH because I think two left in your fleet is a lot better than one (CZ) and I think all four will come from one place for commonality purposes

So for me its:
Most likely: AF
Possible: MH, TG, QF, CZ (with Karel's caveat below)
Unlikely: EK, SQ, BA, LH, KE

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 45):
On the other hand, CZ will have 1 frame out of service due to wing modification. That makes four frames to fly

Very interesting thought. Are all five scheduled for the repair this year?

tortugamon
 
flyinggoat
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:06 pm

What is the time frame for the Skymark A380s? I know the first one just rolled out of assembly, but what about the rest?

I know Skymark was planning to operate an E+ cabin, so maybe that's not feasible, unless they reconfigure the cabin for TK.
 
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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting flyinggoat (Reply 43):
What is the time frame for the Skymark A380s? I know the first one just rolled out of assembly, but what about the rest?

At best they could have two as I do not believe the 3rd has entered the FAL as of yet.
 
civetfive
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:11 pm

Don't we think CAAC would just transfer the 5 CZ A380s to CA or MU, or just reconfigure for domestic runs between SHA, PEK and CAN?

Alternatively, if it realy is CZ, I could see CAAC keeping 1 and converting it into a government VIP aircraft.
 
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Stitch
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting civetfive (Reply 45):
Don't we think CAAC would just transfer the 5 CZ A380s to CA or MU, or just reconfigure for domestic runs between SHA, PEK and CAN?

The other two ex-CAAC carriers are China Eastern and Air China. China Eastern is too small to take A380s, IMO, and Air China has a number of 747-8 on order with the first frames due this year.
 
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Miami
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:31 pm

How about TK A380 to LAX   Yet another A380 to LAX would be hilarious!

Speaking of LAX, does LAX have more demand than SFO to IST?

-Miami
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Turkish350XWB
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):
and I think all four will come from one place for commonality purposes

Has TK ever cared about commonality? I think not really...

Also interesting to see that IST is being expanded. The new aircraft stands on the other side of the rwy will substantially help.
 
A388
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RE: RUMOR: Turkish Airlines To Wet-lease A380s

Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
Quoting kl838 (Reply 39):
What about SQ? Maybe they are reducing capacity to certain routes?

Perhaps for the summer on a short-term lease, but not for a long-term lease. SQ had ordered another five A380-800s and I am assuming they are not meant as replacement frames for 9-SKA though 9-SKE, but instead for expansion.

Indeed, SQ needs all the A380s they have. They need them to compete with EK as being the hub between Europe and (Austral) Asia. CZ and TG as well as MH seem to be the airlines struggling to make full use of their A380s.

A388

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