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Viscount724
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UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:45 pm

UA outsourcing at Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary with a total of 240 staff being cut -- 95 at Toronto, 84 at Vancouver, 61 at Calgary.

Stories:
http://www.thestar.com/business/2014...toronto_vancouver_and_calgary.html
http://business.financialpost.com/20...ronto-vancouver-and-calgary-staff/

Excerpt:

Leslie Dias, a national representative for Unifor, which represents the workers at Pearson, said employees were told to attend a noon meeting on Thursday, even if it was their day off.

“That was the only inkling that something very unusual was going to happen,” she said in an interview. “They are devastated.”


I was surprised UA had that many of their own staff at those airports. Thought they would have outsourced long ago.

[Edited 2014-02-20 15:50:04]

[Edited 2014-02-20 15:52:12]
 
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enilria
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:52 pm

I was going to say "wow, more declines in customer service to the lowest common denominator"...and then realized we are talking about United...
 
azstar
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:00 am

UA needs to keep the front-line employees and outsource its management.
 
9252fly
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:17 am

Prior to the UA / CO merger,anyone know if CO had their own employees at any airport in Canada? It's very unfortunate news,especially for those that had many years of service. According to news sources,a contractor has already been selected. Anyone want to speculate on whom that could be? I wouldn't be surprised if AC put in a bid.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:28 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 3):
Prior to the UA / CO merger,anyone know if CO had their own employees at any airport in Canada?

PMCO definitely had their own staff at YYZ. I have a friend who worked for them. But I don't know what is she doing now as we lost contact.
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apodino
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:34 am

Might UA use AC for handling in some of these airports? Would make sense from an alliance perspective.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
Might UA use AC for handling in some of these airports? Would make sense from an alliance perspective.

Doesn't UA handle AC in many stations south of the border?

If they can "cost-shift" between themselves that could actually be cheaper for both parties than using an outside vendor.
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ca2ohHP
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Doesn't UA handle AC in many stations south of the border?

They do in DTW. Years ago when I worked in MKE, we (United) also ground handled them. I believe there's a few other locations as well.
 
tyler81190
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting ca2ohHP (Reply 7):
They do in DTW. Years ago when I worked in MKE, we (United) also ground handled them. I believe there's a few other locations as well.

Currently UA is in contract negotiations with AC on the ground handling for the U.S. cities served by AC. UA has bid on 20 cities, I believe they currently handle 18 or so.
 
apodino
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):

Doesn't UA handle AC in many stations south of the border?

I don't know all the stations exactly, but in BOS they are handled by US. They used to be handled by UA in C until JetBlue wanted more gates. I suspect that the US/AA merger combined with UA relocating to B will lead to them going back to UA in BOS.

As far as other stations go, in LAX and PHX they are not handled by UA in either place as in PHX they are in T4 and I imagine are handled by either US or who ever does the international handling in T4, and in LAX they are in T2 so they are not handled by any US carrier there. The only other station that comes to immediate mind as far as not being handled by UA is MCO, where they are in Airside 1 and I imagine will stay there for a while as some of the AC flights in MCO come from non preclear stations.

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 8):
Quoting ca2ohHP (Reply 7):
They do in DTW. Years ago when I worked in MKE, we (United) also ground handled them. I believe there's a few other locations as well.

Currently UA is in contract negotiations with AC on the ground handling for the U.S. cities served by AC. UA has bid on 20 cities, I believe they currently handle 18 or so.

BOS will certainly be among them. Not sure who handles them in LAS, but UA does use the T3 counter even though they are on the D gates, so UA could handle them there as the gates are Common Use, though I would still expect AC to continue to park on the E gates. All existing UA hubs are probable except for LAX for reasons I mention above, and IAD since AC is entrenched at DCA. LGA and DCA are also likely. I would also expect SAN to be on the list. MIA is probable as well. I am trying to think of the other US cities that AC serves.
 
tyler81190
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
BOS will certainly be among them. Not sure who handles them in LAS, but UA does use the T3 counter even though they are on the D gates, so UA could handle them there as the gates are Common Use, though I would still expect AC to continue to park on the E gates. All existing UA hubs are probable except for LAX for reasons I mention above, and IAD since AC is entrenched at DCA. LGA and DCA are also likely. I would also expect SAN to be on the list. MIA is probable as well. I am trying to think of the other US cities that AC serves.

I would most certainly think that this signals the agreement of UA and AC on the ground handling. UA hand;es 20 in the U.S. and AC handles 20 in Canada. I have a feeling AC will be handling the 3 stations these layoffs are coming from.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting azstar (Reply 2):
UA needs to keep the front-line employees and outsource its management.

You sound like you don't believe the "Outsource to Excellence" plan is working...?  
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:20 am

From day one I was against this merger as I saw it did not make as much sense as people make it out to be. Since the merger is has been downhill for both CO & UA. Cut cut cut cut cut cut. Two airlines now destroyed. I'm so sad to see how many people have lost jobs all over the system. There is only so much that you can cut. I wait to see where the bottom is for United.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
tyler81190
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 12):
I wait to see where the bottom is for United.

Bankruptcy again.... Probably 5 years down the road...
 
MSPNWA
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:25 am

Sad to see more legacy positions eliminated. I'm surprised though that UA still staffed places like YVR and YYC. Still, sad state of affairs for the industry.

And some of the responses show how UA is in a no-win position. They get criticized for lagging competitors financially. Then they make a difficult step to improve that - one that competitors have done as well - and they're criticized again. I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:17 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
As far as other stations go, in LAX and PHX they are not handled by UA in either place as in PHX they are in T4 and I imagine are handled by either US or who ever does the international handling in T4,

In PHX AC is handled by Servisair below the wing... I dont know who above the wing

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
AC is entrenched at DCA. LGA and DCA are also likely. I would also expect SAN to be on the list. MIA is probable as well. I am trying to think of the other US cities that AC serves

In LGA AC is handled by Swissport below and above wing its themselves (AC)
 
United1
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:17 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 14):
I'm surprised though that UA still staffed places like YVR and YYC.

Not really that strange UA has 16 daily flights out of YYC...9 of which are mainline. 10 out of YVR 8 of which are mainline....
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MSPNWA
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:15 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 16):
Not really that strange UA has 16 daily flights out of YYC...9 of which are mainline. 10 out of YVR 8 of which are mainline....

That's a good amount I guess. I forgot about how big the oil train IAH-YYC is.
 
hoons90
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:10 am

The article also mentions ramp crews. I thought that UA had already outsourced their ramp operations at YYZ to Swissport? Before that, I think AC handled UA below-wing.

Sad to hear about the job losses.
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usdcaguy
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 14):
And some of the responses show how UA is in a no-win position. They get criticized for lagging competitors financially. Then they make a difficult step to improve that - one that competitors have done as well - and they're criticized again. I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.

Good point. The problem with these mergers is that they have made these corporations more efficient, but so many lives have been disrupted, it's hard to see how many people beyond investors have benefited (beyond maybe employees having more job security). When legacies make changes to be more profitable, it almost always has a human cost, through layoffs, pay cuts, quality of life changes or workload issues. That will make the carrier look bad from a human perspective. The way some carriers, like Southwest, handle this is by having "employee-friendly" policies they can easily pay for and promote, although many of those things mean nothing next to job security, working conditions, new opportunities and hard cold cash (which WN does apparently pay as well).
 
maxamuus
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:15 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 11):
You sound like you don't believe the "Outsource to Excellence" plan is working...?

The race to the bottom for UA is never ending.

$mi$ek has NO clue on how to run a airline. The only thing he seems to know is outsource outsource outsource. He only knows that because he over heard it while smoking somewhere and it sounded like a good idea. It is truly sad to see one man just destroy what many employees spent a career making into a great airline

It is sad in Gordon Bethune's book he talked about employees who were so ashamed to work for Continental they tore their badges off their uniforms. $mi$ek has brought that to UA. I am truly ashamed to say I work for UA thanks to $mi$ek.

[Edited 2014-02-21 00:29:24]
 
iah59
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:33 am

I know in PHL UA handles AC operations at the Check in counters.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:23 am

Heard at work today about the United YVR ground handling contract, it's pretty much a done deal for one of the Canadian carriers with a base at YVR. I can't say names until the announcement (coming soon), but I'll leave a hint - it's not any of the companies guessed so far in this thread. Stay tuned...
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YYZatcboy
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:35 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 22):
Heard at work today about the United YVR ground handling contract, it's pretty much a done deal for one of the Canadian carriers with a base at YVR. I can't say names until the announcement (coming soon), but I'll leave a hint - it's not any of the companies guessed so far in this thread. Stay tuned...


What could possibly go wrong?

So.. that would leave Pasco, WS, Jazz? perhaps Air North or CMA? or KFA?
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acws777
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:08 pm

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 22):
Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 23):

I have a feeling its Jazz. They already handle above the wing for United in YLW.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:31 pm

You guys rip United...this is actually America at its Corporate Best in the year 2014.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:41 pm

"UA Eliminating 240 Employees"... Makes it sound like they are being put before a firing squad!
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braynfeeble
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:25 pm

I'm sorry to hear about this. I hope the employees find other good jobs.
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RKSofACinUSA
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
I don't know all the stations exactly, but in BOS they are handled by US. They used to be handled by UA in C until JetBlue wanted more gates. I suspect that the US/AA merger combined with UA relocating to B will lead to them going back to UA in BOS.

As far as other stations go, in LAX and PHX they are not handled by UA in either place as in PHX they are in T4 and I imagine are handled by either US or who ever does the international handling in T4, and in LAX they are in T2 so they are not handled by any US carrier there. The only other station that comes to immediate mind as far as not being handled by UA is MCO, where they are in Airside 1 and I imagine will stay there for a while as some of the AC flights in MCO come from non preclear stations.

AC does it's own ground handling in BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, ORD, TPA, MIA, FLL, LAX and SFO (at least above the wing). Pre-merger UA used to ground handle many US stations served by AC but they refused to use Air Canada's computer system, making it not possible for AC customers to use on-line check-in. AC eliminated UA as a ground handler in most US stations for this reason. Post-merger UA is a little more flexible on the check-in process so it is possible AC may consider them in more stations again.

Currently UA handles AC in PHL, SEA, PDX, DTW, IND, STL, MCI, PVD, RDU and CLT.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:41 pm

YVR was United's first international city. It has a lot of senior employees. I heard Air North won the contract for the race to bottom.
 
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gdg9
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:46 pm

UA earned $140m in Q4 - looks like these poor folks won't see any benefit to their contributions to that success.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting acws777 (Reply 24):
I have a feeling its Jazz. They already handle above the wing for United in YLW.

I had to do a double-take since I've never seen UA mainline in Kelowna (or Penticton or any other part of wine country).

Of course -- that's OO. It's perfectly right and natural for Jazz to cover SkyWest.
 
NickLAX
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:16 pm

Sad day for the UA staff. Been into and out of YVR over the last 20 years and there are a few UA employees who have been there a while. Was one of the better UA serviced stations. Too bad it will go to the lowest bidder now. DON'T for a second assume just because AC is a partner they get it be default. UA will pick whomever bids the lowest - expect a mediocre experience from whomever bottom barreled their quote to win the contract.
 
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malaysia
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 8):
Currently UA is in contract negotiations with AC on the ground handling for the U.S. cities served by AC. UA has bid on 20 cities, I believe they currently handle 18 or so.

would be nice to see them handle SFO, last time I was in SFO, I saw 3 AC planes lined up between UA planes at G gates, but it was not UA that handles them
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dc10co
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 28):
Currently UA handles AC in PHL, SEA, PDX, DTW, IND, STL, MCI, PVD, RDU and CLT.

Add MSY to that list as well.
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blueflyer
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:00 pm

From fuzzy memory, I think Swissport handles Air Canada at DFW.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 29):
I heard Air North won the contract

  


Good news for Air North employees. They actually treat their staff half decently, fun group to work with and the pay scale is comparable to WestJet and the like, plus there are decent benefits and rrsp matching. Also they have a history of encouraging basic level employees (ramp rats etc) to move up within the company to become pilots, mechanics, etc. instead of just skipping straight to external postings.

Not saying they're perfect, but they're a lot better to work for than some of the other options out there. Sad times for the United group, but good news for the girls and boys over at Air North. Not a complete loss of jobs really as Air North are now looking to hire a whole batch of people to handle the extra work from United flights on top of the American Airlines contract and the Air North flights in and out of YVR. I hope it goes well, Air North could use the extra income at the moment as the last two summers their busiest route has been caught directly in the crossfire of the on-going Air Canada vs. WestJet battle.
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CO777DAL
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 35):
From fuzzy memory, I think Swissport handles Air Canada at DFW.

Last time I flew AC out of DFW a few months ago the ground was handled by United. You can see all UA ground equipment around the AC plane here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4fXbyNSEQ
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
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gdg9
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:05 pm

The AC DFW handling may have changed to UA when AC moved to E and no longer operated in D.
@dfwtower
 
hh65man
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Ugh, and off topic a wee bit down here there's a rumor on the news stations about Qantas getting ready to lay off 3000 jobs and cut back on flights........ Must be in the water or something....  
 
9252fly
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:49 pm

Quoting hh65man (Reply 39):
Must be in the water or something....

No,it's just the industry evolving and a continuation of the race to the bottom. It will likely continue until the cost of labour is removed from the equation.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 13):
Bankruptcy again.... Probably 5 years down the road...

Any facts to back that opinion?

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 28):
AC does it's own ground handling in BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, ORD, TPA, MIA, FLL, LAX and SFO (at least above the wing).

Swissport handles AC at SFO

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 28):
Currently UA handles AC in PHL, SEA, PDX, DTW, IND, STL, MCI, PVD, RDU and CLT.

Add JFK to that list (above and below)
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
tyler81190
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 41):
Any facts to back that opinion?

It is just an opinion... But I don't think another bankruptcy will ONLY be for UA. I sincerely believe in the next 15 years, ALL carriers will re-enter bankruptcy. Yes, that includes WN.

But UA I think will be the first one. Their profits are lagging, they need an excuse to outsource the ramp at all outstations, and for a pay cut on the above wing side. It doesn't help that UA is always seeming to ale the wrong decisions for the customer, but the right decision for the bottom line. It will result in fewer customers over a length of time.
 
mcdu
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 13):
Bankruptcy again.... Probably 5 years down the road...
Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 42):
But UA I think will be the first one. Their profits are lagging, they need an excuse to outsource the ramp at all outstations, and for a pay cut on the above wing side. It doesn't help that UA is always seeming to ale the wrong decisions for the customer, but the right decision for the bottom line. It will result in fewer customers over a length of time.

Your guesses are as good as anyone else. Don't think you have the facts to back up your guess but that doesn't stop you at any rate. You say UA profits are lagging, so they take steps to improve those profits and you say it will lead to BK. So what is it Tyler? You really can't have it both ways. I truly hate to see employees lose their jobs, but what UA is doing is very similar to what the other carriers have done. DL has almost all ramp operations out sourced at their hubs. They just don't make the press with that startling news. UA is a corporation and they have new agreements with the IAM that allow for certain changes that were hampering the profitability. If you or anyone else want to use the DL barometer to judge UA success you should be willing let the company seek the same level as DL in outsourcing.
 
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gdg9
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:13 pm

It occurs to me now, what does the future hold for smaller UA outstations where there is maybe one UA employee (station manager) and the rest is already outsourced. Might UA outsource these managers?
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CALMSP
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 44):

when stations are outsourced, management goes as well. With the exception of the international stations. Not sure why that is the case.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 29):
YVR was United's first international city. It has a lot of senior employees.

SEA-YVR was UA's only international route for over 30 years, from the mid-1930s until around 1967 when they obtained rights on ORD-YYZ.
 
atct
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:46 am

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 41):
Any facts to back that opinion?

His name is Smisek.

atct
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brilondon
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 45):

when stations are outsourced, management goes as well. With the exception of the international stations. Not sure why that is the case.

No employees, no need for a manager. Basic as that.
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malaysia
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RE: UA Eliminating 240 Employees In Canada

Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:55 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 48):
No employees, no need for a manager. Basic as that.

Strange if an airport that at least has mainline UA that is outsourced, should have the GM, for liaison reasoning and crisis control?
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos