It's Begun: UA Flying RJs EWR-MIA

N62NA · Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:35 pm

This was a big surprise - never thought I would see the day when RJs (no matter how "large") would be flying on a NYC-MIA route!

UA has 2 of them running today!

UA 3473 EWR 7:52a MIA 11:05a E70 Operated by Shuttle America
UA 3446 EWR 12:24p MIA 3:40p E70 Operated by Shuttle America

UA 3473 EWR 11:41a MIA 2:52p E70 Operated by Shuttle America
UA 3446 EWR 4:16p MIA 7:29p E70 Operated by Shuttle America

Source: Star Alliance Timetable

[Edited 2014-02-22 11:37:05]

LAXintl · Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:52 pm

No biggie.

JetBlue has been flying large RJs for almost a decade now between NYC and South FL.

Also dont forget Delta - for example today E170s to FLL and PBI from NYC.

jetblastdubai · Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:53 pm

According to ual.com it's a Sat/Sun only thing and they're also running an extra flight on those days compared to a weekday schedule. Mid-March it reduces to just 1 RJ on the weekends if that's any consolation.

If you're going to fly in an RJ, an E170 is definitely the way to go.

seatback · Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:26 pm

It shows just how much AA has a lock on Miami.

codc10 · Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:31 pm

Not the first time for E70s on this route. Anyway, EWR-SoFL is firmly a mainline-dominated market for UA, plenty of 737s and A320s to go around.

shaq · Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:11 pm

EWR-FLL is all mainline, as also EWR-MCO.
I don't see why we should worry when UA is flying an E70 in this route. Also, it is only on weekends. E70 are very comfy. They are not ERJ or CRJ.

boilerla · Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:17 pm

Weekends, during the slow travel season, UA is flying a 70 seater to a competitor's hub....and this is news? Have you seen how many RJs DL runs from JFK to ORD all year long?

flyaas80 · Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:03 pm

Have to be honest with you, I would much prefer an E70 over a six abreast mainliner any day.

seat1a · Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 7):

That said, why doesn't DL, B6 an UA throw more E170s/E190s on the LGA/JFK/EWR-FL routes year-round? From what I read in the forum, you can pretty much throw as much capacity on these routes with cheap airfare and fill the planes. Are the Embraer's too expensive to operate given the yields? (Did I just answer my own question?)

If it's a popular and comfortable ride for customers, can these airlines make it work instead of just weekends or when the season is slow? JAX and SRQ appear to make sense, but probably not going to see an hourly LGA-MCO service on E175s.

jporterfi · Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:28 pm

This doesn't surprise me. All of their other flights on those days are mainline, and AA has a very strong presence at MIA. At least it is an E170 and not an ER4 like UA has on EWR-ATL.

catiii · Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:45 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):

What's begun? Dramatic thread ttles or UA doing what every other carrier does?

jfklganyc · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:08 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 6):
Have you seen how many RJs DL runs from JFK to ORD all year long?

JFK-ORD is an RJ route. No one flies that route. They are business people and use the LGA shuttles on DL UA and AA

This is not the same as EWR-MIA

a380787 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:26 am

This is totally chicken little

I randomly checked upcoming weekdays and weekends

Weekdays are 4x all mainline

Weekends are 4x mainline plus 2x E70

This is additional capacity on weekends .... What's wrong with that ? It's a known fact that AA controls NYC-MIA and B6 controls NYC-FLL

Heck, tomorrow UA is 7x all mainline on NYC-FLL, an airport AA doesn't even serve from nyc

[Edited 2014-02-22 16:29:52]

747d10 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:28 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 6):

Slow travel season? We're packed out here in Florida right now.
I have to get to the beach by 10am in order to find any parking spaces.
....the perils of the retired.

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:31 am

I know an RJ is an RJ is an RJ but from how the OP made the title sound like Armageddon you would have thought they were flying -145s.

jcavinato · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:43 am

The airlines that fly RJs on long mainline type routes like EWR-MIA seem to thing the average heavy traveler will be just as happy with that travel experience. I completely avoid such aircraft/service. It takes so much perceived and actual time to get a decent sized brief case at he end of the trip, then again wait for regular luggage, the seats are narrower, and there appears to be less pitch between seat rows. It is a cramped decline in quality of service. And, in many airports, the terminal areas are like early 1960s gate areas with gate folks who don't know how to pleasantly speak on the PA.

I stopped flying AA's EWR-ORD, and I certainly wouldn't fly EWR-MIA.

The aircrafts are fine. I've flown in some as corporate private ones.

N62NA · Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 10):
What's begun? Dramatic thread ttles or UA doing what every other carrier does?

Years ago I predicted that if AA could get away with it, they would fly RJs EWR-ORD. Guess what happened? One day they added a few RJs and now EWR-ORD is all RJ on AA.

I'm seeing the same thing possibly happen with EWR-MIA on UA.

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 3):

I wouldn't say it's just AA's dominance in Miami as UA flies smaller planes in larger markets all day long. Look at them in

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
Years ago I predicted that if AA could get away with it, they would fly RJs EWR-ORD. Guess what happened? One day they added a few RJs and now EWR-ORD is all RJ on AA.

Yes, but now the majority of the EWR-ORD flights are also E-175s so not that bad. Keep in mind EWR-ORD is a competitor's hub-to-hub route so UA carries a lot of passengers on the route.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
I'm seeing the same thing possibly happen with EWR-MIA on UA.

UA is adding a few flights on weekends with large RJs. It's not replacing or reducing capacity, it's adding some capacity with added frequency.

flyfree727 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
JFK-ORD is an RJ route. No one flies that route.

AA 198/199 JFK/ORD/JFK daily 737-800

AA ORD

JBLUA320 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:52 am

This is hardly surprising!
ORD-MIA has been on a Mesa CR7 for quite a while, while AA flies 767s.
In this instance, it's about boosting capacity in a cost-controlled way. And frankly, the E70 can be a more comfortable experience in Y than many mainline jets!

flyfree727 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:44 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
No biggie.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 9):
This doesn't surprise me

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 19):
This is hardly surprising!

Its like AA on ORD ATL 6X RJ vs DL all mainline

AA ORD

catiii · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):

So you're equating adding extra capacity on the weekends (which, incidentally, is winter vacation weekend in the NJ/NY area) to a wholesale shift from mainline to RJs? Okay...

etops1 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:14 am

US flies an E190 between PHL-FLL on certain dates. Hell , we fly PHL -MBJ on the E190. No biggie .

N62NA · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 21):
So you're equating adding extra capacity on the weekends (which, incidentally, is winter vacation weekend in the NJ/NY area) to a wholesale shift from mainline to RJs? Okay...

Any journey begins with a first step.

ADent · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:21 am

MIA was an express station under United before the merger. They did get mainline seasonally.

300CAP · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:24 am

What a bunch of crap! Another example of the tail wagging the dog. Time to fly Southwest!

[Edited 2014-02-22 20:31:14]

etops1 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting 300CAP (Reply 25):

Really ? I agree Smizek needs to go but this decision is in line with all the other major airlines .

300CAP · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:34 am

Quoting etops1 (Reply 26):

UAL used to be an innovative airline but now they seem to just follow the other airlines.

300CAP · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 24):

UAL had year round packed 777, 767 to South America, 757/767 coast to coast and up the East Coast before chapter 11 which is when the rj showed up in MIA. I think that it might had more to do with airport charging the airline tenants for the airport modernization which UAL was not going to get into cost wise.

ltbewr · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:57 am

One of the problems is the demand for frequency for a limited number of seats. By using a smaller a/c, they satisfy some key customers as to frequency yet with a limited amount of seats, can keep up fare yields.

JetBlueCLT · Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:12 am

You should see how bad UA is in CLT. Lets see,about 22 daily regional flights an 6 weekly 1 mainline flight. That pathetic in my eyes.

ORDTLV2414 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
This was a big surprise - never thought I would see the day when RJs (no matter how "large") would be flying on a NYC-MIA route!

if it wasn't to MIA i would be concerened about the sanity of UA excutives. as many in the airline industry say: if you cant print money on NYC/PHL-Florida, than you can't do anything.

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:23 am

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 30):

Overall, UA (former CO) is pretty bad with 50 seaters. IDK if they still do it but kind of ridiculous to run a 145 on ORF-IAH, which I had to endure in 2010.

This example isn't too bad IMO.

gdg9 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:58 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 2):
If you're going to fly in an RJ, an E170 is definitely the way to go.

Quoting FlyAAS80 (Reply 7):

Have to be honest with you, I would much prefer an E70 over a six abreast mainliner any day.

Agreed - I've never had a bad ride yet on a 170/190. Love that aircraft.

jfklganyc · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 18):

AA 198/199 JFK/ORD/JFK daily 737-800

1 Daily

And B6 has 2 to 3 daily depending on time of year.

You cant compare JFK-ORD to MIA-EWR.

catiii · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 23):

And yet those far more knowledgable than you on these boards have repeatedly said that it is ADDITIONAL weekend lift to handle the February vacation capacity in the NE. But yeah, keep on believing what you want.

STT757 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
This was a big surprise - never thought I would see the day when RJs (no matter how "large") would be flying on a NYC-MIA route!

I don't understand, are you looking at just one day and making a blanket statement that this one day (Sunday?) represents something more?

Checking the UA schedules for EWR-MIA

FEB 24:
1 A320, 3 738, 2 739

MAR 14:
1 A320, 1 73G, 1 738, 1 752

APR 17:
3 738, 2 739

May 16:
1 A320, 1 73G, 3 739

All looks pretty solidly consistent to me, this has pretty much been the frequency and number of seats UA (and prior CO) have been running for nearly three decades. Longer than anyone else in the NYC-MIA market.

For instance the 1995 OAG, provided by departed flights.com, shows five daily CO flights EWR-MIA a mix of 727s and MD80s.

http://www.departedflights.com/EWR95p4.html

In 1989 it was 6 CO flights EWR-MIA:

http://www.departedflights.com/EWR89p5.html

MaverickM11 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting 300CAP (Reply 28):
UAL had year round packed 777, 767 to South America, 757/767 coast to coast and up the East Coast before chapter 11 which is when the rj showed up in MIA. I think that it might had more to do with airport charging the airline tenants for the airport modernization which UAL was not going to get into cost wise.

Oh yah. The 90s with that whopping 30 daily departure hub

..,before UA closed it and practically dropped the state of Florida along with Alaska entirely. So innovative!

canyonblue17 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:47 pm

Have recently seen the RJs doing PBI-EWR for United as well.

COEWR2587 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:56 pm

I remember when AA used to run A300's on EWR-MIA

jetblastdubai · Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:05 pm

Realistically, as long as UAs mainline fleet number stays about the same, no market is going to see much, if any, increase in mainline flying.

I believe that once the labor contracts get sorted out at UA, they can get back to the business of running and growing a single airline instead of having to outsource service to get around the labor issues.

PMUA787 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:10 pm

If we are going down the reminiscing route I remember EA running L1011's and A300's EWR-FLL and MIA back in the 80's.

It would be Armageddon if UA was using CRJ-200's EWR-MIA.

N62NA · Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 41):
If we are going down the reminiscing route I remember EA running L1011's and A300's EWR-FLL and MIA back in the 80's.

And National Airlines (the original) flying DC-10s.

Quoting catiii (Reply 35):
And yet those far more knowledgable than you on these boards have repeatedly said that it is ADDITIONAL weekend lift to handle the February vacation capacity in the NE. But yeah, keep on believing what you want.

No need for for the snarkiness. Especially when I could go "spelling police" on you.

My point remains the same: UA is now operating some of their flights EWR-MIA-EWR using RJs.

UA favors FLL in South Florida.

UA considers MIA to be not as important as FLL.

The RJs that UA now is flying on EWR-MIA-EWR may be an indicator of what's in store for the future on the route.

flylku · Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 2):
If you're going to fly in an RJ, an E170 is definitely the way to go.

Agreed. They run DCA - ORD sometimes and I rather like it. In coach: no chance of a middle seat.

a380787 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:18 pm

DL is 100% RJ on ORD-LGA yet no one complains at all

UA adds additional weekend capacity into a rival hub and it's the signs of Armageddon

Talk about double standards here

BCEaglesCO757 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:45 pm

Why don't we pull our 47's out of SFO and just go big with them on EWR-MIA.

Afterall this industry is a big p***ing contest and we need to show everyone else we're big dogs on
the NYC-Florida market on top of the already mainline service we offer.

" Look everybody ! We're losing our shirts, but we have the biggest planes!!!"

MIflyer12 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 44):
DL is 100% RJ on ORD-LGA yet no one complains at all

UA adds additional weekend capacity into a rival hub and it's the signs of Armageddon

Talk about double standards here

It's not additional weekend capacity.

Friday, 2/28, UA EWR-MIA

3 x 738
1 x 320
1 x 739
1 x 73G

Saturday, 3/1

2 x 738
1 x 320
1 x 739
2 x E70

DL treats LGA-ORD as a business route, scheduling 14 x E75s (with a rich 12F 64Y ratio) to match frequency of AA and UA. Is that what UA is doing, dropping a 738 and a 73G for 2 x E70 on a Saturday? I don't think so...

BCEaglesCO757 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 44):

Exactly. You're doing good to have that much mainline into a fortress hub such as MIA. (Being NYC-MIA)
makes that possible IMO.

Just how many loyal AA passengers do you think you're going to pull off of their planes ?

Plus NYC-MIA is more vacation and pleasure, not exactly ORD-NYC.

BCEaglesCO757 · Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:16 pm

UA 15x ORD-EWR 3/3

12 mainline, 3 RJ.

Because it IS a business route. F and E+ on all flights. I don't want to get off topic though.

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 42):

So then if UA considers MIA to be less important than FLL, is it a surprise that they're putting large RJs on the route? They focus more on FLL and apparently do well with it so what is the problem?

From planespotters' point of view this is a good thing because there's more variety. From a passenger's point of view it's a good thing because UA is now flying more comfortable planes on the route. From UA's point of view, they are making a business decision that is financially responsible while keeping the frequenc that their passengers want.

So remind me again, what is so horrible about this? That the statement "UA is all mainline from EWR to MIA" isn't applicable anymore?

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