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allrite
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:48 pm

Australian Aviation Thread 89 was getting long and there's no let up in sight. Time for a quick transit stop.

* Rear cargo door on the VA 77W
* What can REX do?
* Government assistance for Qantas and possibility of repeal of QSA
* VA upset about proposed government assistance for Qantas
* Badgery's Creek and approval for Sydney Airport Masterplan
* The Allegiant model and Australia - could regional flights work?
* Sydney Airport closing the observation deck at T1
* Qantas ending SAA codeshare to JNB. Future of QF flights to South Africa
* 3K adds SIN-BKK-FUK
* Tigerair Mandala cancels slot request for PER-DPS. Will JQ/3K fly more destinations out of PER?
* UA launching MEL-LAX with a 787, UA crewing discussion
* QF to have a tag to GIG during the World Cup
* Koruman's recommendations for QF and educational qualifications
* Last QF 734 flight
* QF rumours, including cutting LHR flights

The big news this week will be the release of Qantas' financial results and plans on Thursday.

Brace! Brace! Brace!
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LipeGIG
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:53 pm

Quoting allrite (Thread starter):
QF to have a tag to GIG during the World Cup

Interesting. Just realize they are bookable GIG-SYD
Probably they imagine LA would not be capable to offer the required connections SCL-GIG/GRU
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 204):
Interestingly according to CAPA, SIN & HKG are where QF is currently struggling in Asia. SIN especially is suffering from overcapacity after the transfer of LHR flights to DXB. Qantas' pressing need to solve the Asian network dilemma, now its European restructure is in place
That same CAPA article suggests that MNL & CGK aren't doing too badly, but I'm not sure how an increase to daily would affect the markets. It would probably boost J traffic but dilute yields in Y unless QF switch to A332s.

Well there goes that suggestion out the window. Wasn't SQ introducing a 3rd A380 service on the SIN-SYD route?
As for CGK it wouldn't hurt considering GA have frequency at 7 per week vs QF 4 days a week & usually bumped up to 5 during high season.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 204):
EK418/419 is flown within 30 minutes of another DXB-BKK flight so I wouldn't be surprised if EK did switch to flying via SIN. If EK really wants to offer a BKK stopover for their SYD pax then they can put pax on QF metal.

We'll see QF23/24 dropped opposed to EK dropping the BKK route considering their not the carrier bleeding.

EK413

[Edited 2014-02-24 15:04:02]
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aryonoco
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:04 pm

These threads are getting full fast aren't they? It seems we just opened 89 a few days ago!  
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:04 pm

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 204):
I'm in the same boat - I've only ever done QF halfway to LHR. As much as I prefer QF I wasn't prepared to pay the (sizable) premium they were asking.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 193):
I've never flown them all the way, in fact the best I managed was SYD-HKG to connect to BA ... once.

I have flown Qantas twice all the way to LHR and back via BKK, SIN and HK, as well as other times to SIN and NRT. I'm not joking when I say that they were magic, the kind of flights I was sorry to get off, despite their length. I can't speak for comparisons with the ME carriers or SQ, but at the time of those flights I thought the Qantas economy product superior than BA (we transferred between BA and QF at SIN, NRT, so direct comparisons), CX (4 hours in a hard shell seat was long enough for me) and MH (ugggh). I stand by my statement that time just flew faster on the Qantas flights.

EK? I'm sure the flights are fine and enjoyable, but I suspect that it would be like our last house, a duplex. Us with modern minimalism, the ME family next door with lots of gold everywhere. Each to their own, but but despite intangibles being intangible they do impact on the experience.

I know that isn't a hard headed rational reason, but it's why I would be terribly sad if Qantas no longer flew to LHR.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:16 pm

A lot of numbers floating around with 5,000 jobs expected to go at QF...
Tell you what they do anything to sell a paper these days!!!

Qantas coy on job cuts

Qantas Airways Ltd is refusing to confirm or deny reports the financially troubled airline will axe up to 5,000 jobs as part of its efforts find $2 billion in savings.

The airline is said to be preparing to announce deeper job cuts than previously expected when it unveils a half year loss of up to $300 million on Thursday.

A report from News Corp Australia says the airline is planning to axe up to 5,000 workers, well above the 2,000 jobs losses previously expected, with 1,500 of those jobs expected to come from the company's executive and support divisions.

It also claimed Qantas was looking to sell its lease on Melbourne Airport and would announce the sale of its Brisbane Airport lease this week.

Qantas says it won't comment on the reports.

"There is fresh speculation about what things we will or won't announce on Thursday as part of our half year results," the airline said in a statement on Tuesday.

"We are not in a position to comment on that speculation."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-jobs/story-e6frg90f-1226836481403

EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:28 pm

Qantas' official position (information free!!!)

Quote:
There is fresh speculation about what things we will or won't announce on Thursday as part of our half year results. We are not in a position to comment on that speculation.

We have said that we will be making some tough decisions in order to achieve $2 billion in cost savings over the next three years, which is a consequence of an unprecedented set of market conditions now facing Qantas.

We've also said that we must take steps to reduce our costs regardless of whether the Federal Government acts on the uneven playing field in the Australian aviation market.
Qantas Newsroom

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 3):
These threads are getting full fast aren't they? It seems we just opened 89 a few days ago!  

Might need to take leave on Thursday just to keep up.  Smile Headline: Qantas to announce cuts to aviation geek productivity

[Edited 2014-02-24 15:31:40]
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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
Qantas Airways Ltd is refusing to confirm or deny reports the financially troubled airline will axe up to 5,000 jobs as part of its efforts find $2 billion in savings.

The airline is said to be preparing to announce deeper job cuts than previously expected when it unveils a half year loss of up to $300 million on Thursday.

A report from News Corp Australia says the airline is planning to axe up to 5,000 workers, well above the 2,000 jobs losses previously expected, with 1,500 of those jobs expected to come from the company's executive and support divisions.

Remember Qantas last week scoffed at suggestions of 2000 job cuts saying that such a figure was hysterical and the cuts would be nothing like that....it looks like they weren't lying!!!
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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 6):
Qantas' official position (information free!!!)

Quote:
There is fresh speculation about what things we will or won't announce on Thursday as part of our half year results. We are not in a position to comment on that speculation.

We have said that we will be making some tough decisions in order to achieve $2 billion in cost savings over the next three years, which is a consequence of an unprecedented set of market conditions now facing Qantas.

We've also said that we must take steps to reduce our costs regardless of whether the Federal Government acts on the uneven playing field in the Australian aviation market

I hope the actual announcement on Thursday is full and frank and not full of the double-speak we have come to expect from ASX200 companies. Announcements such as the one above doesn't give me much faith though.....if I hear "challenging environment" or "level playing field" again, I think I'll throw up!!!
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 7):
Remember Qantas last week scoffed at suggestions of 2000 job cuts saying that such a figure was hysterical and the cuts would be nothing like that....it looks like they weren't lying!!!

If they saying no route cuts where are the speculated "5,000" jobs coming from then?

I wish the media would cut it out & stop publishing such crap to sell their papers! Then again that's media, right?

Thursday 27th of February is fast approaching...

EK413
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Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:42 pm

Repeat after me and insert your name:

--------------------------------------

I, Sydscott, do solemnly swear that until QF actually announces something on Thursday I will stop sepculating, or posting news articles speculating, on anything Qantas will announce. I will stick to facts only.

-------------------------------------

With enough oaths hopefully that'll mean we won't have to start another thread before Thursday! haha
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 7):
Remember Qantas last week scoffed at suggestions of 2000 job cuts saying that such a figure was hysterical and the cuts would be nothing like that....it looks like they weren't lying!!!

5000 looks nothing like 2000, unless you turn the two backwards and squish it out a bit.  
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
I hope the actual announcement on Thursday is full and frank and not full of the double-speak we have come to expect from ASX200 companies. Announcements such as the one above doesn't give me much faith though.....if I hear "challenging environment" or "level playing field" again, I think I'll throw up!!!

In Australia a corporation can make a record profit and still sound miserable, so I wouldn't be eating anything on Wednesday. What happened to all the promised sunshine and rainbows once the "witch" was gone?

Quoting sydscott (Reply 10):
I will stick to facts only.

What's your definition of a fact? I have seen several in use lately and they don't correspond with my understanding of the word.  Smile

[Edited 2014-02-24 15:48:37]
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:48 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 201):


Quoting QF2220 (Reply 200):
The QF/EK deal is metal neutral

Do you have a source? Not disagreeing, just interested.

Sorry, I thought that was general knowledge and an accepted fact. Let me see if I have just created something I shouldnt have and drink from my own cup of source!
 
flylonghaul
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:51 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
if I hear "challenging environment" or "level playing field" again, I think I'll throw up!!!

Agreed!!

I think I'm most sick of the "Need to make hard decisions" line that has been flung around for the past few years whenever they are trying to make job and route cuts palatable. At first you can agree with those words, but year on year with the same crap... Something needs to change and perhaps for once it isn't the people at the bottom that need to be out of the job.
Take some accountability for the position the airline is in!
Rant over  
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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
It also claimed Qantas was looking to sell its lease on Melbourne Airport

Surely Qantas can't expect to receive huge dollars for selling its lease on T1 in MEL. The lease expires in 2018 at which point ownership will revert to Melbourne Airport. Melbourne Airport is the only logical buyer of the lease and even if they sold it for $100M, the new lessor would seek to recover its investment plus a return over the remaining lease term meaning the lessee (Qantas) would be looking at increased opex of around $27M p.a.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:50 am

I was watching Steve Purvinas this morning being interviewed and he said the only sacking he wanted to see was Alan Joyce. Is this guy so stupid that he thinks that with Joyce gone the new CEO would be kinder to Purvinas and his cohorts? I think he should have a cold shower and a long think about that.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 11):
What's your definition of a fact?

The definition of fact = the comment you are posting, or that the news article is posting, came directly from an official source at QF, a media document released from QF or an announcement/document lodged with the Stock Exchange or Government by QF.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
Surely Qantas can't expect to receive huge dollars for selling its lease on T1 in MEL. The lease expires in 2018 at which point ownership will revert to Melbourne Airport. Melbourne Airport is the only logical buyer of the lease and even if they sold it for $100M, the new lessor would seek to recover its investment plus a return over the remaining lease term meaning the lessee (Qantas) would be looking at increased opex of around $27M p.a.

That's the trick - does QF opt for cash now and recurring expenditure later? Or do the opt to keep the terminals in place. Same for the aircraft leases etc.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting packersfan (Reply 15):
was watching Steve Purvinas this morning

Ah Steve Purvinas, a Union Leader who could pick a fight in an empty room.   He's still pissed at being out manouvered at the QF shutdown and will keep fighting that battle like the Cold War warrior he is.
 
qf340500
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 am

is it just me or not, but i am sick of hearing these "Cold War" people (i love that expression, sydscott) of Union-Officials fighting their egocentric battles, risking the jobs of the people they are there to protect actually (the members of the unions)... gosh... get your own life!
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:48 am

I have very little time for Purvinas, but let's be frank: many of his members will have their lives ruined because of the financial crisis caused by the rank incompetence of Clifford and Joyce.

I don't dispute that big cuts must be made, but as with Air NZ in 01-02 that needs to begin with a complete purge of the management ranks. Every member of the Board and the executive team needs to be dismissed in recognition of the total management failure which is signalled by going begging to the government and sacking huge numbers of staff.

And an incoming CEO and Chairman with clean hands can make such cuts without the level of toxicity for customers that Clifford and Joyce are going to create by purging everyone except themselves.

To update a Ronald Reagan quote:

"A recession is when your mate loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours. And recovery will begin when Joyce and Clifford lose theirs."

[Edited 2014-02-24 17:58:22]
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:59 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 2):
We'll see QF23/24 dropped opposed to EK dropping the BKK route considering their not the carrier bleeding.

We don't know how SYD-BKK is performing, but the upgauging to 744 over summer suggests demand is healthy. SIN seems to struggle with QF5/6 alternating between 744 & A333. Keeping QF81/82 as A333 and replacing QF5/6 with EK418/419 via SIN helps two issues (poor performance of SIN & excess capacity into BKK). A bonus is that QF can again sell F on SYD-SIN (SYD-BKK would be quite weak for F bookings).

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
Surely Qantas can't expect to receive huge dollars for selling its lease on T1 in MEL. The lease expires in 2018 at which point ownership will revert to Melbourne Airport. Melbourne Airport is the only logical buyer of the lease and even if they sold it for $100M, the new lessor would seek to recover its investment plus a return over the remaining lease term meaning the lessee (Qantas) would be looking at increased opex of around $27M p.a.

I think ownership of airport terminals can be seen like any other commercial property ownership. It's essentially a shopping centre with waiting areas attached - who's to say Westfield don't want a piece of the action?

I don't agree with the theory, but supposedly when interest payments are high, selling assets that generate profit can help to reduce the interest paid. This only works if the interest savings are greater than the potential earnings lost.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:01 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 4):

I agree with you completely that QF when they're on fire can rival anyone in the world. Their TPAC product is absolutely superb and my flights back from the States over the past couple of years have all even the best flights that I've ever been on. I further agree that they blow BA clean out of the water. I therefore really do want to see a strong and successful Qantas longhaul operation but the reality is that I have been flying EK and EY to Europe for as long as I've been flying between the two continents (other than two trips on BA) because they offer the service I want. I would like to fly QF to MAN, but that's not possible. Given that I only visited Australia for the first time in 2007 I guess I "came of age" very much in the "EK era", so to me Europe and Emirates are very much synonymous terms, and to me the thought of not flying them (or a comparable carrier) is slightly alien.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):

There was a article on this in the Australian newspaper just recently.MEL was quoted at either 250 or 300 million i think, and BNE 150 million.

BNE was very close to being sold and MEL was in advanced talks .So 2018 will not be the case in either of these 2 terminal sales.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:08 am

Qantas, operated by Jetstar.... any takers???
I understand the Jetconnect model works well on the Tasman routes, returning a very healthy profit to the mothership
What?
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 20):
I think ownership of airport terminals can be seen like any other commercial property ownership. It's essentially a shopping centre with waiting areas attached - who's to say Westfield don't want a piece of the action?

....but QF can only offer ownership for 4 years. In 2018 the lease reverts back to Melbourne Airport. Westfield aren't going to be interested in an asset with such a short lifespan.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 20):
I don't agree with the theory, but supposedly when interest payments are high, selling assets that generate profit can help to reduce the interest paid. This only works if the interest savings are greater than the potential earnings lost.

QF are not selling the asset to reduce debt. They are trying to get cash for operating and restructuring purposes

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 22):
So 2018 will not be the case in either of these 2 terminal sales.

Melbourne Airport website still states that T1 is leased to Qantas until 2018. These long-term leases were established just prior to the privatisation of the airports and means that Melbourne Airport Corp does not currently charge an annual rental to QF and QF receives rent on all retail tenancies located in T1. Realistically the airport owners don't like such leases as they want to be able to control the terminals themselves.
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
I wish the media would cut it out & stop publishing such crap to sell their papers! Then again that's media, right?

  

More and more so, alas, especially in print media - the newspapers. Speculation rumour and opinion have replaced reporting facts. Newspapers are all battling declining readership - to the internet - and so they become more and more like the internet to try and compete.

The Age used to be a terrific newspaper, but I no longer read it. I gave up during the scurrilous and relentless attacks on Julia Gillard - whatever you think of her, she did not deserve that sustained abuse - and now I just scan the headlines on the internet.

I'm the same with Qantas - the campaign against Joyce is simply repulsive to me and I'm bored with all the other stuff. As the headlines become more and more fevered - 1000 Jobs To Go! - 3000 Jobs To Go!! - 5000 Jobs To Go!!! - I get more and more bored.

I'm interested in what happens, of course, what Qantas does when Qantas announces it, but nothing said in the media - or here - will change what is going to happen one jot or one tittle.

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-24 18:42:50]
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PA515
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 25):
now I just scan the headlines on the internet.

Well here's one for you.

'Qantas cuts to force fares up' by Geoffrey Thomas of the West Australian, who quotes "Qantas sources"
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/21678807/

PA515
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 26):
Well here's one for you.

'Qantas cuts to force fares up' by Geoffrey Thomas of the West Australian, who quotes "Qantas sources"
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/2...8807/

Yeh, I saw the headline - I didn't bother to read it, it seemed a bit obvious to me.

Did I miss anything of importance?

mariner
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wstakl
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 25):
1000 Jobs To Go! - 3000 Jobs To Go!! - 5000 Jobs To Go!!! - I get more and more bored.

Guarantee the thousands of QF employees facing the chop don't share your boredom. It's almost like they are the 'forgotten ones' on this forum.
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:19 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 27):
Did I miss anything of importance?

Ground the 767 fleet and amalgamate some QF/JQ flights. There was a bit at the end about outsourcing baggage handling.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):
Given that I only visited Australia for the first time in 2007 I guess I "came of age" very much in the "EK era", so to me Europe and Emirates are very much synonymous terms, and to me the thought of not flying them (or a comparable carrier) is slightly alien.

I date mine back to 2001. For me it's about Asian stopovers so with Qantas I must already fly part of the way with another airline, though I would be interested to see Dubai one day. Anyway, Qantas has no room for sentimentality right now unless it gets them more passengers.
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koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:24 am

Grounding the 767 fleet would surprise me.

They are highly flexible workhorses which are presumably fully paid for. And you can reliably assume that they won't spontaneously combust.

[Edited 2014-02-24 19:25:30]
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:30 am

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 28):
Guarantee the thousands of QF employees facing the chop don't share your boredom. It's almost like they are the 'forgotten ones' on this forum.

Yes, to a real extent they have been forgotten, but do you really believe these sensational, alarmist headlines are helping them?

I've been in their situation, on a smaller scale, and those headlines would be giving me nightmares.

Quoting allrite (Reply 29):
Ground the 767 fleet and amalgamate some QF/JQ flights. There was a bit at the end about outsourcing baggage handling.

And this was based on fact, or "sources"?

Since I assume there will be cuts, and some capacity cuts, it's one of the oldest mantras in the business - less capacity, fewer seats to discount, higher yield.

I posted the same thing last week in another thread about another airline.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
Since I assume there will be cuts, and some capacity cuts, it's one of the oldest mantras in the business - less capacity, fewer seats to discount, higher yield.

Certainly.

But Messrs Clifford and Joyce clearly don't subscribe to it. And if they change tack now the only decent and honourable thing to do is admit their prior folly and fall on their swords.

Many, many people are going to lose their jobs because Clifford and Joyce gambled the company on a belief that QF + JQ must be equal or greater than 65%.

If they admit their error they must pay the same price.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):

For once, we agree. The 734's are gone now, that leaves 767, 73H, 717 and A330's for domestic flying, and all seem to fill there own market nicely. I struggle to see what QF can cut internationally. I thought all the international cutting was done last year and any route that was not money making was cut. I don't see any particular reason why JNB, CGK or MNL would not be profitable now but would have been 2 years ago. Maybe LHR to 1 daily but we have already seen this denied by QF.
I think the real cutting will come in middle management and readjustment of ownership of assets.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:39 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 32):
But Messrs Clifford and Joyce clearly don't subscribe to it. And if they change tack now the only decent and honourable thing to do is admit their prior folly and fall on their swords.

And here we are again, discussing a speculative headlines and opinions, not facts.

Include me out.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:47 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
And here we are again, discussing a speculative headlines and opinions, not facts.

This is airliners.net.

That's what we do. Route rumours. Fleet rumours. Merger rumours.

Now is an awfully strange time to give up all that fun.

Incidentally, I have a novel suggestion for what Qantas could do......

1) sell Jetstar.
2) fix Qantas
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:54 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 35):
That's what we do. Route rumours. Fleet rumours. Merger rumours.

If only we were discussing those things. I'm sure many Qantas staff members don't find your statement to be a lot of "fun":

Quoting koruman (Reply 32):
Many, many people are going to lose their jobs because Clifford and Joyce gambled the company on a belief that QF + JQ must be equal or greater than 65%.

Similarly, I don't find your relentless, and sometimes scurrilous, attacks on Joyce/Clifford to be a whole lot of "fun."

But each to their own - always - and their own idea of "fun."

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-24 19:55:35]
aeternum nauta
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:01 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
If only we were discussing those things. I'm sure many Qantas staff members don't find your statement to be a lot of "fun":

I'm pretty sure that Qantas employees would almost universally agree with my assertion that if there are significant job cuts or if by their actions the airline admits that defending the 65% line was a costly error, then the first two sackings need to be Clifford and Joyce.

I'm pretty sure that most non-institutional shareholders who have paid for this folly themselves with their own savings would agree too.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 37):
I'm pretty sure that Qantas employees would almost universally agree with my assertion that if there are significant job cuts or if by their actions the airline admits that defending the 65% line was a costly error, then the first two sackings need to be Clifford and Joyce.

They may - I don't know. But how does that affect my coming here - for my sort of fun?

Quoting koruman (Reply 37):
I'm pretty sure that most non-institutional shareholders who have paid for this folly themselves with their own savings would agree too.

They may - I don't know. When I've lost money on airline shares, and I have, I've blamed myself - I'm the one who bought the shares, no one forced me to do it.

But - again - how does that affect my participation, or not, in these threads, or those aspects of the threads that I do enjoy?

Must we all think the same? That hasn't happened - to me - in my life time.

mariner

[Edited 2014-02-24 20:46:20]
aeternum nauta
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:29 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
And this was based on fact, or "sources"?

It fails the confirmed sources test.   I only bothered to include it as I thought "baggage handling" was the kind of cost cut that hasn't been raised yet and illustrates another source of savings (and pain for those employed doing it). There are probably quite a few of these behind the scenes areas that Qantas will be targeting. And we might not realise what we are missing until they are gone. Take, for instance, the Qantas call centres. Last time I called an Australian answered the phone. And it was professional, comforting and, from my perspective, efficient. Intangibles again. Will that soon be the case after Thursday?
I like artificial banana essence!
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 39):
Will that soon be the case after Thursday?

Since you've addressed it to me, quoted me, I have to respond. And I don't know the answer to your question.

Having followed several airlines into Chapter 11, all you say it correct, any of that may happen - it's the sort of thing that does - but I don't know.

The one thing I do know - or feel fairly confident saying - is that life goes on. And I believe Qantas will go on. It may not be the Qantas you like, it may not be the Qantas you want, it may not be the Qantas that you have become comfortable with.

But as much as I can predict anything (and that isn't much) there will still be a Qantas.

mariner
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JQflightie
Posts: 548
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:47 am

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 18):
is it just me or not, but i am sick of hearing these "Cold War" people (i love that expression, sydscott) of Union-Officials fighting their egocentric battles, risking the jobs of the people they are there to protect actually (the members of the unions)... gosh... get your own life!

I see where you are coming from, and yes some unions are a bit vigilante and that is wrong, however i am, part of and also a union delegate and we like to make sure that it is fair for both parties. A union's job, if done correctly, should be there to protect both the employee and employer so that neither parties stray into legality issues, and thats what i make sure of, always fair and even!

Now as to speculations and rumours, its quiet interesting to read everyones speculations and rumours, i happen to work for one of the QantasGroup Airlines.... but unfortunately i cannot put my 2 cents in as im bound by a social media policy, i have my own theroies and specualtions on what could help.

Koruman, i like what you say.....

But come thursday we will all know our fate, personally im quiet excited, this is a new era, Qantas has to do what it needs to do to survive, and yes this will be a hard pill to swallow, but a necessary one, i plan on being here when we turn 100!

I know peoples opinons of JQ, i having worked for that company too, i know what it is like, it makes me laugh a little when i read some stuf on here regards to QF giving money to JQ and bla bla bla, but there is a market for JQ in Australia weather people like it or not.
When is my next holiday?
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:06 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
Since you've addressed it to me, quoted me, I have to respond. And I don't know the answer to your question.

Guys, we've found Mariner's weak point. 

I wasn't expecting an answer from you or anyone but Qantas themselves and then not until Thursday. My hope is that they've looked hard and what makes them successful and what is hurting them and take the clever options for the long term, not just the fashionable slash and burns that so many others do for a quick share price fix.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 41):
But come thursday we will all know our fate, personally im quiet excited, this is a new era, Qantas has to do what it needs to do to survive, and yes this will be a hard pill to swallow, but a necessary one, i plan on being here when we turn 100!

 
Quoting JQflightie (Reply 41):
there is a market for JQ in Australia weather people like it or not.

Absolutely agree! That's why I'm flying QF, JQ, QF (and some other cheapshit airline that I'm not looking forward to) this year.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
JQflightie
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:08 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 42):
Absolutely agree! That's why I'm flying QF, JQ, QF (and some other cheapshit airline that I'm not looking forward to) this year.

Is it a GreyHound Bus Codeshare? (TT)   
When is my next holiday?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:22 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 29):

Oh I agree about stop overs, and the two times I flew BA it was because I wanted to stop in HKG. The first was CX BNE-HKG, stop, BA HKG-LHR, and the second the same but QF SYD-HKG.

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):

I agree that they're great workhorses, but - if true - then this will be the first sign that QF are serious about capacity discipline in the domestic market. Swap a 737 for a 767 and 80 seats disappear, and in doing so you drive up prices.


I find the rumors of baggage handling going to be the issue of real interest, but per Sydscotts pledge I won't discuss it until Thursday.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 33):

  

I think that you're right about where these cuts are going to come.

And happy ANet birthday, here's to another 7 years!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:45 am

Etihad has set up a big promotional "pop up" display at Enex100 for their upcoming Perth flights. Big TV screens running Etihad advertisements, wall length posters of the cabin products and friendly staff dressed in the cabin crew uniform answering any questions. Looks very classy!
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:41 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 39):
I only bothered to include it as I thought "baggage handling" was the kind of cost cut that hasn't been raised yet and illustrates another source of savings

I've thought for a very long time that ground services was the work group wandering around with a glaring target on their back. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but if Aerocare already handle several QantasLink stations then it isn't a stretch to imagine them taking on more work.

And that's it from me on that subject until Thursday.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 41):
i am, part of and also a union delegate and we like to make sure that it is fair for both parties. A union's job, if done correctly, should be there to protect both the employee and employer so that neither parties stray into legality issues, and thats what i make sure of, always fair and even!

Oh I agree, and see it in my own workplace. My union delegate is also my manager. While I'm not sure how that is permissible (it screams conflict of interest to me!) it does mean that both sides of the coin have their interests protected. Overall I have a lot of respect for her in doing so.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 41):
there is a market for JQ in Australia weather people like it or not.

  

Koruman won't be happy with me for doing so, but I'm flying JQ to HNL this year. I could have paid an extra $1000 to fly QF, and I'm glad that there are people who choose to do so, but I couldn't make the cost-benefit analysis stack up in mainline's favor.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:51 am

I saw this observation elsewhere and it gave me serious pause for thought:

"A contract, in Long Hauls case, that has been negotiated in good faith for over 48yrs without resorting to strike action."

We must surely all at least agree that whatever happens on Thursday is tragic, and that staff should not be demonised as the people whose greed destroyed a great company.

As the day goes on and the rumours of Joyce's demise being the price for government assistance swirl louder and louder, I almost feel sorry for Joyce. Even I recognise that he has been acting on orders from Leigh Clifford, and if Joyce goes but Clifford survives it will be a travesty of justice.
 
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zeke
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:07 am

At last QF have got what they have been asking for, no more Qantas Sales Act....

"The Abbott Government has confirmed that it will try to repeal the Qantas Sales Act, paving the way for majority foreign ownership and offshoring of jobs."

http://australia.etbnews.com/190889/...ent-confirms-qantas-will-fly-free/

Next excuse AJ is .....
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
wstakl
Posts: 239
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 90

Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:25 am

Is it odd that QF's share price has risen 16% over the last few weeks, despite all the doom and gloom?

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