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na
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ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:29 pm

ANA has received many 787s so far, by far the largest fleet. Still they have retired only a few 767s, and no 777 so far. Thats a bit surprising because all I heard so far was that most 787s are replacements and only some frames meant for expansion. I would have expected that at least a dozen 767s would have been axed by now. Or do they have a number of planes parked at home without anyone really noticing.

[Edited 2014-02-25 09:44:11]
 
tortugamon
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:40 pm

The retirement of 767s have been slower than I expected for nearly every 787 customer.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
ANA has received many 767s so far

Do you mean 787s?

tortugamon
 
na
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):
Do you mean 787s?

Yes, typo, sorry
 
na
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 1):

The retirement of 767s have been slower than I expected for nearly every 787 customer.

Main reason must be because they needed a fallback solution due to the frightening teething problems of the 787. As these seem to be largely over, I expect we should see largescale 767 retirements rather soon.
 
kaitak
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Still they have retired only a few 767s


I think they have retired all their 767-200s, many of which went to Airborne Express as converted freighters. It's true that they have only retired a few 767-300s though.

Due to the long delays with the 787, still continuing, they have presumably had to extend leases on some 767s, so they probably can't retire them exactly upon delivery of a 787.

[Edited 2014-02-25 09:48:16]
 
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United787
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:00 pm

Many of their 763s are brand new...I assumed they would be keeping these and operating them with the 787s...no?
 
tortugamon
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting na (Reply 3):
Main reason must be because they needed a fallback solution due to the frightening teething problems of the 787.

For some 787 operators the reason is that the 787s are being used for new routes and aren't a 1:1 replacement per se.

For ANA the majority (~66%) of the aircraft are being used on domestic and regional routes so this isn't quite the case.

Only three of their 767s will turn 25 this year, four next year, and two the following year so I am not sure if retirement is desperate at this point.

Quoting United787 (Reply 5):
Many of their 763s are brand new...I assumed they would be keeping these and operating them with the 787s...no?

Their 767s tend to have a lot more cycles though because of the shorter missions.

tortugamon
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Their 767s tend to have a lot more cycles though because of the shorter missions.

True, but a nice amount of 763s have been delivered in the last 10 - 15 years, 9 of them since 2010 alone. In fact, it looks like there was a little overlap between 763s and 788s entering their fleet in 2011 and 2012. While higher in cycles for their age, I cannot imagine these being anywhere close to the end of their life span:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/A...20Nippon%20Airways-active-b767.htm
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
I think they have retired all their 767-200s, many of which went to Airborne Express as converted freighters.

Yes but that happened between 1997 and 2003, so it's not really related to the 787.
 
tortugamon
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 7):
While higher in cycles for their age, I cannot imagine these being anywhere close to the end of their life span:

There will certainly be overlap in service. Those recent 767s were offered to ANA at a discount to pay for late 787s and they will indeed be in service for a long time. I don't think @NA is suggesting full retirement; rather just that the retirement is slower than he expected.

tortugamon
 
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Stitch
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:38 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Still they have retired only a few 767s, and no 777 so far.

NH will not begin 777 replacements until the 787-9s start to arrive at the end of this year.
 
Someone83
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:12 am

They have parked a few 747s
 
Carpethead
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:55 am

Quoting na (Thread starter):
no 777 so far.

Their oldest 777 is not yet 20. There are no indications that the first will be retired next year. I would hedge on retiring their older domestic 763s are a more pressing concern.

Quoting na (Reply 3):
I expect we should see largescale 767 retirements rather soon.

Not exactly, until Boeing starts spitting out more 787s.

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 11):
They have parked a few 747s

Correct, they have been gradually retiring their 744 fleet. The last 747 service is next month. It will mark a first time in a long-time that a Japanese-based airline didn't operate a four-engined airplane. But that period (maybe) short lived.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Only three of their 767s will turn 25 this year, four next year, and two the following year

About 4 or 5 years or so too old. NH is no SQ but historically, they usually keep their aircraft in service for about 20 years or less.
 
na
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:05 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 12):
Their oldest 777 is not yet 20.


True, but shorthaul means they wont last as long as their longhaul sisters. I think its realistic to expect the non-ER 772s to be axed in near future (1-5 years), followed by the 773s towards the end of this decade.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 12):
I would hedge on retiring their older domestic 763s are a more pressing concern.

Must be very pressing, a 25 year-old 767 is not exactly a advertising tool for a top airline.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 12):
Correct, they have been gradually retiring their 744 fleet. The last 747 service is next month. It will mark a first time in a long-time that a Japanese-based airline didn't operate a four-engined airplane. But that period (maybe) short lived.

Hopefully.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 12):
About 4 or 5 years or so too old. NH is no SQ but historically, they usually keep their aircraft in service for about 20 years or less.

Yes, they keep/kept the older 763s much longer than they might have planned due to the 787 delays.
 
PHX787
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:23 pm

If a plane is turning profits for an airline's fleet, and its replacement is having some slight reliability issues, what makes you think NH, a very smart company, will want to expedite the retirement?

The 767 is probably going to hang around for another 5-10 years with most airlines who still operate them. NH included. Some of the t-con 767s that NH has will probably be shifted to domestic roles.
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wxman11
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:37 pm

ANA retired one of their oldest B767-300 to SFO back in December '13. The purpose for this was ANA donated this aircraft to replace the B727 the airport had for their emergency training.

https://www.airliners.net/ufview.file?id=138601&filename=php6iXXXt.jpeg

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tortugamon
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:41 pm

Quoting na (Reply 13):
I think its realistic to expect the non-ER 772s to be axed in near future (1-5 years),

They will be replaced by the 789 when it enters the fleet beginning this year.

tortugamon
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:37 am

Quoting na (Reply 13):
Must be very pressing, a 25 year-old 767 is not exactly a advertising tool for a top airline.

I don't know , good paint and a well maintained interior makes it very difficult to judge the age of an aircraft.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: ANA, The 787 And The 767

Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 17):
I don't know , good paint and a well maintained interior makes it very difficult to judge the age of an aircraft.

The original 767 interior has not aged well in terms of either looks or function (the bins are way too small). It looks old to everyone.

By contrast, the Boeing Signature Interior makes a 767 look just as modern as a 777 (and more modern than the A330) to the passenger.

ANA has never replaced any of its original interiors, so the older 767s are indeed not a good look for the airline. But there are not that many left -- 23, almost all 767-300As and all used on domestic and short-range routes. And these are in the process of being retired.

The 25 newer 767-300ERs used internationally all have the BSI, and can stay in the fleet for years to come without any danger of affecting ANA's image.

[Edited 2014-02-26 18:53:40]

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